The uzumaki will be confirmed to be the original blood line

[robert31393]

All senju,uchiha and uzumaki are descendants of the safe not just a select few and by what this thread suggest is
Uchiha + Senju = Uzumaki.This thread regards the sage as being apart of the Uzumaki clan.

The older son, who inherited the Sage's powerful chakra and spiritual energy and manifested it in the eyes the yin nature of his chakra.The younger son inherited the Sage's powerful will and physical energy manifesting it throughout his body retaining the yang nature of his chakra.The thread states overall that the elder and younger son took the split power of the uzumaki and over the years morphed the power into their own as the elder son eventually made the uchiha and sharingan and the younger son eventually led way to the senju but seeing how the younger son believed in peace he kept his ties with the uzumaki who as a whole clan retained the original characteristics of the clan and continued to be a separate and distinct clan of its own demonstrated by my graph which is backed up by the disambiguation of lineage in evolutionary terms.

perfect explanation + rep

 

[DeadManWonderLand]

Only the uzumaki are known for their longevity. The senju clan was made of senju. They disbanded in modern times.. And how can u believe the elitist uchiha would do what you say. Yeah right... Then why is the knowledge of the rikudo lost ? Hashi would know the eldest son he is his dad... The world wouldnt have forgotten so soon about them.

The line your quoting is not the full post so i sense your trying to take it out of context but even so your still wrong.
I am not sure on what you mean by the uchiha as i have not implied that they did anything nor have i talked about the uchiha specifically at all so far during this thread.The knowledge of the sage is lost and i never said anything to suggest otherwise.And hashiama is the descendant of the younger son not the elder son.

 

[DeadManWonderLand]

perfect explanation + rep

thank you so many people are stuck on the notion that the uzumaki are born from the senju which is not true if that was the case those specific words would of been uttered by now but they haven't kishi is trying his hardest to remain as vague as possible about the connections between the uzumaki and the sage until he gives the big reveal but if you take in what is known so far you can pretty much sum it up

 

[Great Sage of Uchiha]

The Uzumaki and Senju clans are parallels to the Uchiha and Hyuuga clans ... Hyuuga's are descendents of the SO6P as well seeing as to how the Sharingan mutated from it.

I think Kishi is going to shed more light on the Senju clan the next arc considering the whole Shippuden has been dictated by some angry ass Uchiha smh

If anything It was Older sons eyes > Rinnegan> Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan> Mangekyo Sharingan> Sharingan > byakugan; Cause if you believe the sharingan comes from byakugan then your losing it, it is no were near powerful enough to create the Rinnegan nor does it grant you a personal spiritual being to call upon.
But then again the Older son could have had two sons and each some had two different eyes, Son one Sharingan and Son two Byakugan so if that is the case no eye came from any were but the older son.

( Also if a sharingan mutated then that would mean this process would continue so the whole mutation theory is flawed.)

 

[Great Sage of Uchiha]

People this is just a theory, which means that it is a contemplative and rational type of abstract or generalizing thinking. Which means that it can be disproven at any time throughout the manga but you have to admit this is an amazing theory and well proven at that. Personal i don't agree with it but i can't argue with it at the current moment either cause
1. I'm too lazy to counter all his points ( Which you have some good ones, which makes it even harder to counter.)
2. Again this is a really good theory, so for me to disprove this i'd have to make mine just a good if not better

But +plus rep to you dude, awesome thread

 

[Meowazziel]

tbh, ALL uzumaki being both senju and uchiha, sounds like a load of bull (especially since none has a dojutsu like sharingan).
If uzumaki have both senju and uchiha, that would mean that sasuke is uchiha
and naruto is senju AND uchiha.

Tbh, i dont mind going as far as to say, that uzumaki have strong spiritual chakra+powerful chakra(elder son) as well as the physical energy and will (younger son), but that is still something different than being uchiha and senju.

The sage possed a dojutsu, either from himself or by becomming the Juubi his host.
Dojutsu is something that the uchiha clan has and Uzumaki dont.
The elder son was given the dojutsu.

Tbh, i believe it is like this:
Uzumaki=sage.
The sage becomes juubi his host.
Sage=Uzumaki+Juubi.
Splits his powers to his 2 sons, who both receive part of the sage his powers
and part of the juubi his powers.

The older son, who inherited the Sage's powerful chakra and spiritual energy (yin).
The younger son inherited the Sage's powerful will and physical energy (yang) .

This is why uzumaki lack certain powers that Senju and Uchiha have.
They miss the Juubi part.
But Senju and Uchiha do not have the fullblood uchiha powers.

Basically if Naruto becomes the Juubi his host, than he would have the powers, that the sage had.

 

[DeadManWonderLand]

People this is just a theory, which means that it is a contemplative and rational type of abstract or generalizing thinking. Which means that it can be disproven at any time throughout the manga but you have to admit this is an amazing theory and well proven at that. Personal i don't agree with it but i can't argue with it at the current moment either cause
1. I'm too lazy to counter all his points ( Which you have some good ones, which makes it even harder to counter.)
2. Again this is a really good theory, so for me to disprove this i'd have to make mine just a good if not better

But +plus rep to you dude, awesome thread

Thanks i think your the first person to ever disagree personally without flinging a half baked reason for why it must be wrong.
You sir have restored my faith that narutobase can be a place of debate i know you mentioned your tired but one day i would like to hear what you think on the matter if its not too much of a hassle

 

[DeadManWonderLand]

tbh, ALL uzumaki being both senju and uchiha, sounds like a load of bull (especially since none has a dojutsu like sharingan).
If uzumaki have both senju and uchiha, that would mean that sasuke is uchiha
and naruto is senju AND uchiha.

Tbh, i dont mind going as far as to say, that uzumaki have strong spiritual chakra+powerful chakra(elder son) as well as the physical energy and will (younger son), but that is still something different than being uchiha and senju.

The sage possed a dojutsu, either from himself or by becomming the Juubi his host.
Dojutsu is something that the uchiha clan has and Uzumaki dont.
The elder son was given the dojutsu.

Tbh, i believe it is like this:
Uzumaki=sage.
The sage becomes juubi his host.
Sage=Uzumaki+Juubi.
Splits his powers to his 2 sons, who both receive part of the sage his powers
and part of the juubi his powers.

The older son, who inherited the Sage's powerful chakra and spiritual energy (yin).
The younger son inherited the Sage's powerful will and physical energy (yang) .

This is why uzumaki lack certain powers that Senju and Uchiha have.
They miss the Juubi part.
But Senju and Uchiha do not have the fullblood uchiha powers.

Basically if Naruto becomes the Juubi his host, than he would have the powers, that the sage had.

the first part of you post is wrong thinking the sharingan did not come into being until after the elder son who was handed down the sages chakra manifested it into his eyes.The elder son then went on to have his own family which then on went to become the uchiha who were the wielders of the sharingan if you thought i implied the uzumaki have sharingan then im sorry that is not what i said.The chakra was passed down from the sage to the sons who went on to morph the nature of their chakra into something else entirely.This was a just a lack of misunderstanding between us as for the rest of your post i already included half of what your saying and it doesn't make anything i said untrue it coincides with what i said.


The sharingan and senju have individual powers that the uzumaki do not possess i agree with you i am just saying that the origin of the powers lie with the uzumaki who originally split his chakra into two sons to allow that evolution to take place.By no means will a uzumaki pop up with a sharingan.They were merely catalyst for their dna.And since the senju and uchiha essentially hold the general make up of the uzumaki Madara is able to insert his rinnegan(dna of both uchiha and senju)in Nagato uzumaki and he is able to retain it.

 

[Griffith]

If anything It was Older sons eyes > Rinnegan> Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan> Mangekyo Sharingan> Sharingan > byakugan; Cause if you believe the sharingan comes from byakugan then your losing it, it is no were near powerful enough to create the Rinnegan nor does it grant you a personal spiritual being to call upon.
But then again the Older son could have had two sons and each some had two different eyes, Son one Sharingan and Son two Byakugan so if that is the case no eye came from any were but the older son.

( Also if a sharingan mutated then that would mean this process would continue so the whole mutation theory is flawed.)

You may be right, but I'm just basing that theory off these panels right here.

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Not much is really known about the Byakugans history, which is fishy because its the only other Doujutsu apart from the Sharingan.

 

[Great Sage of Uchiha]

Thanks i think your the first person to ever disagree personally without flinging a half baked reason for why it must be wrong.
You sir have restored my faith that narutobase can be a place of debate i know you mentioned your tired but one day i would like to hear what you think on the matter if its not too much of a hassle

Lol not a problem, I will try to disprove it the best i can. I guess the thing i'm worried about most is that it will sound like a B.S. and invalid ( you know)

 

[KuroNero]

Here's a head scratcher. Who or what spawned that Orochimaru freak? Has no one noticed that he's basically unstoppable? I agree with the OP, I think the Uzumaki were most likely the original ancestor. You got brown/blond headed senju, black headed uchiha, and red headed senju right there in the middle. The uzumaki redness went to the blood of the senju and to the irises of the uchiha, where their power stems from. Colors are very important in manga/anime. They tell us things, because we get to see them basically from day one.

Namikaze (whom we know very little about, except that the only known shinobi spawned from this clan, or name, is Minato)/Hyuuga/etc are all most likely descended from the lower halves of the Uchiha and Senju, but don't try to tell me that Senju is at the top. The most likely candidates for that position are in fact, the Uzumaki. Lots of unanswered questions still, though, and ALL of what I and the OP have said is STILL speculation. Even if some parts are relatively obvious.

What have we learned about Naruto, people? The obvious answer is probably the right one. XD

 

[DeadManWonderLand]

Here's a head scratcher. Who or what spawned that Orochimaru freak? Has no one noticed that he's basically unstoppable? I agree with the OP, I think the Uzumaki were most likely the original ancestor. You got brown/blond headed senju, black headed uchiha, and red headed senju right there in the middle. The uzumaki redness went to the blood of the senju and to the irises of the uchiha, where their power stems from. Colors are very important in manga/anime. They tell us things, because we get to see them basically from day one.




Namikaze (whom we know very little about, except that the only known shinobi spawned from this clan, or name, is Minato)/Hyuuga/etc are all most likely descended from the lower halves of the Uchiha and Senju, but don't try to tell me that Senju is at the top. The most likely candidates for that position are in fact, the Uzumaki. Lots of unanswered questions still, though, and ALL of what I and the OP have said is STILL speculation. Even if some parts are relatively obvious.

What have we learned about Naruto, people? The obvious answer is probably the right one. XD

I am happy that you pointed out the significance of color may i also point out that red is on the opposite spectrum of purple which is the color of the rinnegan Uzumaki>red hair >red eyes>purple eyes.A natural progression of the red color spectrum.It nice little details like that also stick out to me.Insignificant on its own but notable as kishi has used color to symbolize and unite people (example being naruto is orange a mash up of red and blonde)////////////////mbvhvygtyftd0-0

Here is another notable similarity >uzumaki clan symbol

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elder son dojustu

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[Great Sage of Uchiha]

You may be right, but I'm just basing that theory off these panels right here.

You must be registered for see images

Not much is really known about the Byakugans history, which is fishy because its the only other Doujutsu apart from the Sharingan.

True very true, you bring up a good point.
(The mutation theory is just a little far for me personally) The older son could had two sons i mean think about it The Byakugan and the Sharingan.
The Byakugan: Amazing eye sight and Always light
The sharingan: Good eye sight
mangekyou sharingan: Good eye sight but destined to lose light
Eternal Mangekyou sharingan: Regain's like with amazing eye sight and eternal light
Rinnegan: ??? From what tobi stated it can decode better then EMS

What i'm saying is maybe son 1st eye's were going to fade ( maybe cause he took on his fathers hatred)
were as the 2nd brother didn't but in the process gained a Doujutsu that wouldn't fade cause he never took on his fathers hatred
IDk lol it made more sense in my head.

 

[DeadManWonderLand]

Lol not a problem, I will try to disprove it the best i can. I guess the thing i'm worried about most is that it will sound like a B.S. and invalid ( you know)

I have no problem with anyone trying to debunk my theory as long as they provide facts and examples that showcase the point they are trying to make.I can't ignore facts no matter what end of the argument they fall on.I look forward to you trying to disprove my theory how else would i know if i was right wrong lol

 

[skikasmarts]

this would be interesting if this was the case

 

[Meowazziel]

the first part of you post is wrong thinking the sharingan did not come into being until after the elder son who was handed down the sages chakra manifested it into his eyes.The elder son then went on to have his own family which then on went to become the uchiha who were the wielders of the sharingan if you thought i implied the uzumaki have sharingan then im sorry that is not what i said.The chakra was passed down from the sage to the sons who went on to morph the nature of their chakra into something else entirely.This was a just a lack of misunderstanding between us as for the rest of your post i already included half of what your saying and it doesn't make anything i said untrue it coincides with what i said.The sharingan and senju have individual powers that the uzumaki do not possess i agree with you i am just saying that the origin of the powers lie with the uzumaki who originally split his chakra into two sons to allow that evolution to take place.By no means will a uzumaki pop up with a sharingan.They were merely catalyst for their dna.

Its probably a bit in the name.

Okay, we agree on:
Sage=uzumaki.
His two sons are Uchiha and Senju.

But
i dont think the sage has split just his own powers to his son, but the juubi's powers as well.
This imo, is a reason why you wont see a Uzumaki with Mokuton or a Uzumaki with a dojutsu (from himself, not implant). Because those 2 things, are from the Juubi.

What makes the senju powers senju, is the added juubi part.
What makes the uchiha powers uchiha, is the added juubi part.
That is why both parties can control bijou so well.

Uzumaki lack this.
That is why i dont consider them to be uchiha + senju.
They do however, have the yin and yang energies (which i dont consider the same as uchiha and senju).

Probably the reason why Hashirama inherited Mokuton, is him being the son of an Uzumaki and a Senju.
Tobirama just didnt inherit it and nor did any of their offspring.

An Uzumaki will not be able to do Mokuton, because of lacking the juubi part (unless maybe sealed as host).

I wonder what would happen when an Uzumaki and an Uchiha have a child.
Karin and Sasuke anyone?

 

[DeadManWonderLand]

Its probably a bit in the name.

Okay, we agree on:
Sage=uzumaki.
His two sons are Uchiha and Senju.

But
i dont think the sage has split just his own powers to his son, but the juubi's powers as well.
This imo, is a reason why you wont see a Uzumaki with Mokuton or a Uzumaki with a dojutsu (from himself, not implant). Because those 2 things, are from the Juubi.

What makes the senju powers senju, is the added juubi part.
What makes the uchiha powers uchiha, is the added juubi part.
That is why both parties can control bijou so well.

Uzumaki lack this.
That is why i dont consider them to be uchiha + senju.
They do however, have the yin and yang energies (which i dont consider the same as uchiha and senju).

Probably the reason why Hashirama inherited Mokuton, is him being the son of an Uzumaki and a Senju.
Tobirama just didnt inherit it and nor did any of their offspring.

An Uzumaki will not be able to do Mokuton, because of lacking the juubi part (unless maybe sealed as host).

I wonder what would happen when an Uzumaki and an Uchiha have a child.
Karin and Sasuke anyone?

I agree that is why uchiha can control the tailed beast they share a connection.
I do not mean to say the sage knew what powers they would end up gaining the chakra he ended splitting up between them is just a catalyst of strong chakra what came after the sons gained the chakra is unique to them and their descendants.Im just saying the two halves of the strong chakra they share combined is what makes the rinnegan.

This is backed up by the progenitor gene mentioned not too long ago.Think of it as this the sage(uzumaki)had the rinnegan(progenitor gene)which cannot replicate only those who wield the exact blood or chakra can obtain it.When the two sons were born the dna was split forever losing the ability that specific gene.When the uchiha and senju combine they make the rinnegan.Madara was able to use nagato as a host because he retained the original chakra that broke off into the two sons.He is essentially the full package but many misunderstood me and assumed i was saying that the uzumaki retains all the powers of the two clans.He just holds the genetic make up that led to the uchiha and senju he does not have access to either clans unique powers like the ones you mentioned.

 

[Griffith]

True very true, you bring up a good point.
(The mutation theory is just a little far for me personally) The older son could had two sons i mean think about it The Byakugan and the Sharingan.
The Byakugan: Amazing eye sight and Always light
The sharingan: Good eye sight
mangekyou sharingan: Good eye sight but destined to lose light
Eternal Mangekyou sharingan: Regain's like with amazing eye sight and eternal light
Rinnegan: ??? From what tobi stated it can decode better then EMS

What i'm saying is maybe son 1st eye's were going to fade ( maybe cause he took on his fathers hatred)
were as the 2nd brother didn't but in the process gained a Doujutsu that wouldn't fade cause he never took on his fathers hatred
IDk lol it made more sense in my head.

Yea it would make more sense if the byakugan mutated from the sharingan but who knows what kishi is thinking.

As far as this thread goes, a few people have responded me that transplanting an Uchiha eye does not mean you are Uchiha. I know this ! What I'm saying is that by transplanting the eye, the person has access to Uchiha power. . This is how Danzo could use Izanagi. It is never stated that you need to be of Uchiha BLOOD in order to gain access to ying yang techs like Izanagi and Rinnegan. You just need to obtain the power of the Uchiha.

Proof:

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So with that being said, I feel as if Nagato was able to wield the Rinnegan because of the fact Madara gave him his eyes. Madara and Obito are infused with Hashirama Senju DNA ... not Uzumaki DNA. Maybe theres something about the Uzumaki section of the Senju lineage that makes them better candidates to wield the Rinnegan, but this doesnt necessarily mean that Uzumaki's are the 'untainted' ancestors of the SO6P. Just my thoughts.

 

[Griffith]

Yea it would make more sense if the byakugan mutated from the sharingan but who knows what kishi is thinking.

As far as this thread goes, a few people have responded me that transplanting an Uchiha eye does not mean you are Uchiha. I know this ! What I'm saying is that by transplanting the eye, the person has access to Uchiha power. . This is how Danzo could use Izanagi. It is never stated that you need to be of Uchiha BLOOD in order to gain access to ying yang techs like Izanagi and Rinnegan. You just need to obtain the power of the Uchiha.

Proof:

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So with that being said, I feel as if Nagato was able to wield the Rinnegan because of the fact Madara gave him his eyes. Madara and Obito are infused with Hashirama Senju DNA ... not Uzumaki DNA. Maybe theres something about the Uzumaki section of the Senju lineage that makes them better candidates to wield the Rinnegan, but this doesnt necessarily mean that Uzumaki's are the 'untainted' ancestors of the SO6P. Just my thoughts.

Also notice the bottom right panel with Konan in disbelief that Tobi had Uchiha & Senju powers.. just like her friend Nagato.

 

[Naruto N. Uzumaki]

lineage    
noun
1.
lineal descent from an ancestor; ancestry or extraction: She could trace her lineage to the early Pilgrims.
2.
the line of descendants of a particular ancestor; family; race.

senju came way before the uzumaki clan

it was said he(nagato) was senju linage not the sages lineage thread/