Prime Hiruzen

[XMANG55]

I always start off saying i respect other opinions on the base and i will on this topic

I believe that there is such a character as "prime Hiruzen". I say this because for one i haven't seen one person prove that he isn't real or as strong as he is some times over rated to be.

Also we count Harashima when we have never seen one fight from him and he basically all hype ( even tho i do believe he is as strong as he is perceived against certain characters) I SAY THIS BECAUSE he is generally accepted on this base by hype of madara who hasn't seen thousands of ninja in there prime so he can't possibly know that there was no capable of beating him when he was alive.

I just think on the base if you count one person we haven't seen one fight from and is mostly hype you should count the other character.

if there is somebody who will say all of Hiruzen hype is base off a fodder so there for isn't accurate I disagree because usually they don't have there head up there ass and can be a great judge of power.

one more thing why does everybody think Madara statements of only Harashima can beat him are 100% accurate. He has not seen every ninja in there prime so he can noway make an Accurate statement on the matter.

honestly I sometimes think he has so much pride that he will never say that another ninja can beat him unless they do it because he so prideful so of course the only person he thinks can beat him is someone who has already done it.

(also this is not a verse thread for Hiruzen and Harashima i don't know who would win but base off the info kishi has given use anyway you go you can't say there're not close in power no matter who you think is stronger)

 

[Waltz]

A "charater"? Then Your giving the implication that there are two characters Hiruzen and Prime Hiruzen.

Prime hiruzen dosen't exist....you argument has no valid points, just opinions and is therefore invalid.

 

[Uchiha Josephus]

tl:dr

Hiruzen in his Prime I am sure was awesome.

However it will be a never ending battle between fanboys whether he was on the level of Hashirama.

My personal opinion is that, in theory, he knew more techniques, but that Hashirama has him beat by sheer power. If he existed.

And that's all I have to say!

 

[ntel]

A "charater"? Then Your giving the implication that there are two characters Hiruzen and Prime Hiruzen.

Prime hiruzen dosen't exist....you argument has no valid points, just opinions and is therefore invalid.

This^ Hiruzen might of be strong but he doesnt compare to Madara or Hashirama

 

[I SploogedOnYou]

We never got to see hiruzen's prime so we cant say. Even madara was fodder when he got old. Mortal body < age/time

Madara is strongest char in manga right now unless naruto's still holding back some power. Madara also hates senju. So when he brings up hashi, it's not hype. He knows hashi's power and can still say if he can beat him or not.
Hashi > EMS madara > naruverse

Hashi ? Edo madara > naruverse

 

[Ly1e]

Lets put it like this. If Hiruzen is only capable of utilizing Jutsu of the caliber he did against Orochimaru, then he's not that powerful, even in his prime. We don't know anything else about Hiruzen, therefore just leave it alone.

 

[XMANG55]

A "charater"? Then Your giving the implication that there are two characters Hiruzen and Prime Hiruzen.

Prime hiruzen dosen't exist....you argument has no valid points, just opinions and is therefore invalid.

I respect your opinion but you misunderstand the point there is a "prime Hiruzen" because for one i dont belive that he was called the god of Shinobi and was only as strong fast quick as how he was shown in the manga at very old age. Also just like there is a kid Hashirama and just because one has not been seen doesn't mean they are a made up character or two different ones.

 

[Yusuke Urameshi]

There have been no feats given as to what Prime Hiruzen did. We were told, however, that Hashi beat Madara and subdued the Kyuubi in his prime. Based off of the given information, one can conclude that you can't compare the two because there is a shortage of information about Hiruzen in his prime.

 

[Waltz]

I respect your opinion but you misunderstand the point there is a "prime Hiruzen" because for one i dont belive that he was called the god of Shinobi and was only as strong fast quick as how he was shown in the manga at very old age. Also just like there is a kid Hashirama and just because one has not been seen doesn't mean they are a made up character or two different ones.

There's the problem "You dont believe". As much as you try to argue, Manga > Your beliefs...any sensable member would tell you likewise.

 

[XMANG55]

We never got to see hiruzen's prime so we cant say. Even madara was fodder when he got old. Mortal body < age/time

Madara is strongest char in manga right now unless naruto's still holding back some power. Madara also hates senju. So when he brings up hashi, it's not hype. He knows hashi's power and can still say if he can beat him or not.
Hashi > EMS madara > naruverse

Hashi ? Edo madara > naruverse

I think this is flawed because he know that history shows he lost so the only way to shollow his pride (which is alot we must agree)
is by making the only one to best him this one in a life time power. but as always it could go towards your point to.

 

[shortfusered]

Then they call him prime that doesn't mean he's the best. It just means when he was younger her was the top ninja. But name another ninja in he's era that was amazing. You have Danzo, the white fang around that time maybe and that all I can think about maybe in that generation there wasn't no outstanding ninja so he was the best. But now compare him to now aday ninja and he isn't much talk. It's all about the time frame

 

[Prime Rib]

agree XD

 

[Yusuke Urameshi]

We never got to see hiruzen's prime so we cant say. Even madara was fodder when he got old. Mortal body < age/time

Madara is strongest char in manga right now unless naruto's still holding back some power. Madara also hates senju. So when he brings up hashi, it's not hype. He knows hashi's power and can still say if he can beat him or not.
Hashi > EMS madara > naruverse

Hashi ? Edo madara > naruverse

Correction. Hashi + Mito > Edo Madara. Without Mito, Hashi wouldn't be able to seal him.

 

[XMANG55]

And once again i'm stating that there is a bias on the base because for the same reason we don't count "Prime (young) Hiruzen" we could also use for Hashi.
And i do believe that in naruto That hashi is stronger than Hiruzen but not by much and note that in naruto Victory is more set on better match ups instead of abc logic so I don't use Hashi >Madara> better than everybody logic.

 

[XMANG55]

There's the problem "You dont believe". As much as you try to argue, Manga > Your beliefs...any sensable member would tell you likewise.

Where is it said in the manga that prime (young) Hiruzen doesn't not exist or that he is over hyped and even tho i have no way to prove my case by the manga ( even tho he has one of the strongest titles given by another character in the manga) I use logic and since you have no way to prove ur point by the manga don't hide behind the manga has your argument.

 

[shortfusered]

And once again i'm stating that there is a bias on the base because for the same reason we don't count "Prime (young) Hiruzen" we could also use for Hashi.
And i do believe that in naruto That hashi is stronger than Hiruzen but not by much and note that in naruto Victory is more set on better match ups instead of abc logic so I don't use Hashi >Madara> better than everybody logic.

I believe that against te prime part but you have madara whooping 5 kages now going to fight bm naruto bee KAkashi and GAi an he tells them only hash could stop me is showing the power of hash. Know if a villain came out of the woods whooped everyone up and said only the 3rd can stop me it would show what kind of power he could fight against

 

[XMANG55]

I believe that against te prime part but you have madara whooping 5 kages now going to fight bm naruto bee KAkashi and GAi an he tells them only hash could stop me is showing the power of hash. Know if a villain came out of the woods whooped everyone up and said only the 3rd can stop me it would show what kind of power he could fight against

But he's edo and the 1st must have some hidden move that works well with suppressing chakra because of course no one can beat a Zombie that was already top 5 ninja before he died and now has unlimited power with out the fear of dying . Also if Nagato was able to release himself from reanimation and was still evil how many current narutoverse ninja you think could stop him?

 

[narutownsyouall]

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Hiruzen already did it.

 

[startup97]

Sarutobi being able to handle the 1st, 2nd and Orochimaru while being confined in a space by the sound 4 is a testament to how powerful he was. Hiruzen also had keen senses, being able to track down the former Hokage under Hashirama Senju's Bringer-of-Darkness Technique. Enma commented on his battle with Orochimaru, saying that it was "miserable" compared to his prime, even though he had clearly been able to hold his own against Orochimaru and two former Hokage without losing his composure. He still had the skill and agility to place explosive tags on both the first and second hokage's legs at the same time. Knowing all the techniques of Konoha hes probably developed defences against them. Even in his old age, his chakra was noted for being very strong, causing a dense effect on the atmosphere when released furthermore, he was known for having immense reserves of chakra in his youth. People might say a person like Itachi would get him in a genjutsu. The 3rd being a student of the 1st and 2nd probably taught him how to counter the many Sharingan techniques. Hiruzen was also called The Professor (プロフェッサー, Purofessā), due to his mastery of all forms of shinobi combat, and his vast knowledge of techniques, purportedly knowing all the techniques within Konoha. He was admired as The God Of Shinobi and Only him and the Sage Of Six Paths share the nick name "God Of Shinobi" Sarutobi being able to handle the 1st, 2nd and Orochimaru while being confined in a space by the sound 4 is a testament to how powerful he was. Hiruzen also had keen senses, being able to track down the former Hokage under Hashirama Senju's Bringer-of-Darkness Technique. Enma commented on his battle with Orochimaru, saying that it was miserable compared to his prime, even though he had clearly been able to hold his own against Orochimaru and two former Hokage without losing his composure. He still had the skill and agility to place explosive tags on both the first and second hokage's legs at the same time. Knowing all the techniques of Konoha hes probably developed defences against them. Even in his old age, his chakra was noted for being very strong, causing a dense effect on the atmosphere when released furthermore, he was known for having immense reserves of chakra in his youth. People might say a person like Itachi would get him in a genjutsu. The 3rd being a student of the 1st and 2nd probably taught him how to counter the many Sharingan techniques. Hiruzen was also called The Professor (プロフェッサー, Purofessā), due to his mastery of all forms of shinobi combat, and his vast knowledge of techniques, purportedly knowing all the techniques within Konoha. He was admired as The God Of Shinobi and Only him and the Sage Of Six Paths share the nick name God Of Shinobi

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He was old and had very little chakra while fighting Orochimaru. One of the Anbu members mentioned that his primary fighting style was to fight with Shadow Clone just like Naruto but he had to reserve his chakra so he only brought 2. Using Rasengan or Chidori would have drained his chakra too much. It wouldn't be a smart thing to do. The only way was to seal both the Hokages. He was able to counter Tobirama and Hashirama in close combat, despite them being in their prime in the Summoning Impure World Reincarnation. Even when robbed of his sight from the genjutsu Bringer-of-Darkness Technique, he could still defend himself from Hashirama's and Tobirama's assaults, blocking all their attacks to prepare for his Dead Demon Consuming Seal. After summoning Enma, he could break Hashirama's Wood Release branches with ease. Even when someone as powerful as Danzo was dying he admitted that Hiruzen Sarutobi was steps ahead of him still. Strength, Speed and Stamina have all been hindered because of his old age. Sarutobi was said to have monsteres strength compared to the other Hokages. His strength would have most likely been and 4 because of being able to lift the heavy Enma pole at old age with some difficulty, Let's say in prime he could have lifted Enma with ease. Almost all the jounin's speed have a speed average of 4. His speed is very fast even in his old age. His prime would have been much faster but not as fast the 4th Hokage or Guy. I'd give him a 4.5 for being able to match speed evenly with Orochimaru at old age which means his speed back then must have been a lot better.
His stamina was greatly decreased becuase of old age. But his chakra made a dense affect on the field. It was said his primary style to fight with was the shadow clone which he couldn't do too much or any other Konoha technique because of low chakra. As we all know Shadow Clone Jutsu requires a lot of chakra. To have his primary style be Shadow Clone must mean his Chakra back in old age must have been much higher. It would have been like Naruto without the Nine Tails. It would have been 4.
All the rest of the scores have a perfect 5 in Ninjutsu, Genjutsu and Taijutsu which is impressive considering his old age. In total his data book score would have been 37.5 surpassing both Itachi and Jiraiya who have 35.5 as the highest in the data book. Just IMO

 

[XMANG55]

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Hiruzen already did it.

^^^^ This is true but it did cost him his life so be prepared to have that thrown in your face.
( Not by me tho) because people with there so called "Manga Facts" will find anyway to weaken or demean a Character they don't like......