Re: Best explanation of why Tobi = Obito; share it!
Now that Madara has shown up at the end of 600, i believe he will explain everything.
I think it's logical that i'm thinking the same thing that many of you are. I can't think of any other reason why they (tobi and madara) would know each other.. hmm
Also the fact that Obito says "doesn't matter who i am" or "i am no one", shows that Madara might have just brainwashed him.
Madara training Obito is ridiculous btw. So Madara gave Nagato his Rinnegan, then survived for another 30 year's basically to save Obito from the boulders, then train him...when Madara would be like 90 something years old no less.
Yahiko wasn't the only reason for Nagato to turn to evil, his parents were killed when he was a child. He was a orphan wandering the streets of Iwagakure and simmirlarly to Itachi, his entire life he was a victim of war. I'm hoping that Rins death is'nt the only reason for Obito's personality u-turn. How Rin died will play a key part in whether I think Obito is justified. If Kakashi fought to protect her then he didn't 'let' her die. Madara must have been one hell of a motivational speaker. His convincing must be better than what Obito said to Sasuke. Obito had such strong beliefs in teammates and therefore Madara must have really pulled his strings. Kishi definitely has some explaining to do.
Rin is only the reason he started hating the shinobi world and the only way he think he can end it with is his plan. He's starting the war because of completing juubi so that he can complete his plan. It's just like with Pain. But I find it stupid how Rin was even mentioned. I mean it could be shown in flashbacks how it was a factor turning Obito to who he is now but now it just gives you the feeling everything is about Rin..
Rin is not the real reason that obito went evil, something else triggered his personality change. Here are some facts that i have found.
1. When madara saved obito from rock Rin was still alive. So the fact that obito never came back to the village was due to something else. Remember that if you believe Rin's death activated kakashi's MS, then Rin shouldnt have truely died till after Zabuza Arc and before Part 2 started. Also, obito had to have learned of Rin's death since he wasnt in the village, which means that he decided not to come back on his own (probally influence from madara)and he turned evil way before she died. Madara molded obito to the way he is now. Rin has nothing to do with it.
Now someone might say, "how do you know that Rin was the reason he turned evil", "he just said it in the manga, so you know more then kishi now", etc.. etc.. Well here is my reason #2.
2. Right after Obito said the reason was rin, he also said this.
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Obito say's theres no point in blaming kakashi, because the reality is insignificant and also that he doesnt care about the affairs in this world.
So obviously rin isnt the reason he turned evil because she was only an affair in this world. IMO it think Madara has implanted an idea into obito's head and now, obito just want to have control over the world.
How long did Rin live? We've never seen Rin in any of the flashbacks at the village AFTER the war. This suggests that she died during the war, some time after Obito "died". Let's play out one scenario that works:
1) Obito "dies", but as he's covered by rocks his MS awakens from his feelings of loss, and he is able to phase out of the rocks to safety.
2) Kakashi, Rin and Minato move on to the next battle. Minato goes off to do his thing. Kakashi is still hot-headed and not thinking clearly and Rin dies.
3) Obito witnesses Rin's death and sees that Minato is to blame for it (not Kakashi)
4) Obito decides not to go back to see them, because he blames them for her death. Instead, he wanders around until he joins Akatsuki, is "reassembled" by magic Zetsu slime, and eventually becomes a second-in-command to Madara and pretends to become Madara after his death.
This is sort of reasonable, and it does explain a few things:
This is why "Tobi" fought Minato instead of just taking the fox and running away. If he blames Minato for Rin's death, that explains why he would want to kill Kushina (and baby Naruto), and why he wouldn't have focused on capturing the Fox and taking the Fox away to Akatsuki headquarters.
This is why he wants Naruto and Sasuke to fight to the death: Either way he wants Kakashi to lose a student, and he wants Naruto to die because Naruto is the son of Minato.
Point #3 above is why he didn't say that he blamed Kakashi this chapter. He really blames Minato. Kakashi just didn't stop it.
Why is Obito "Nobody?" Because he's a person who is supposed to be dead. An Uchiha without one of his sharingan eyes. A person who loved a girl who is dead. A "hero" whose last wish was to protect Rin and she wasn't protected. Basically, everything he was, everything he stood for, all the hope he had and all the people he trusted ended up not being enough to keep a single girl alive. This is why he rejects hope and why he rejects reality: If you give everything and that's still not enough, then giving anything is worthless.
I still don't like the Tobi=Obito reveal, but it does make some sense if you think about it and his motivations are a little bit contrived but they can be explained.
Nobody, Madaras just boss like that. Madara will be the one to control everyone if the plan succeeds, unless Obito is stupid and thinks that he will, and at that point Madara will probably wreck his shit, become the jinchuriki and lose his life to plot no jutsu
but Madara is not the root of 'evil', or the curse of hate, call it however you want. that goes back to the elder son. Madara is just another person caught into this. and we know that his brother's death filled him with hate.... so....
WEAK REASON but whatever, not likes its been used 323434 times already..
1. sasori
2. sasuke
3. nagato
4.naruto(he won vs darkness tho)
5.gaara(won too)
6. kabuto
i mean seriously this whole manga's been nothing but tragedy turning people evil..
Rin is the ultimate reason. Madara obviously trained him or conversed with him and probably saved him(with zetsu)
There is no mind blowing secret. You guys just where thinking too hard.
Nagato went bad because yahiko died.
IT'S NOT THAT CRAZY THAT HE'S DOING THIS OVER RIN! you ever hear about the story of Troy???? hmmmm.....
In fact It's cool it is ending up this way. I called it was because of rin(I originally called Izuna because the mask came off I admit lol.)
Kakashi, you got some explaining to do. Y u no let Rin live?
Obito, you have some MAJOR explaining to do. Madara=second masked guy earlier in timeline? Simple Drawing mistake made obito too tall after 1year?
I can understand him advancing that much in a year if he was training under madara.
Once again, if rin is the reason then there is a major plot hole.
1. Obito unleashed the nine tails on konoha 1 year after we believed he had died.
2. It originally the narutobases theory was that kakashi unlocked his MS because of Rin's death.
3. Kakashi unlocked MS somewhere between Zabuza arc and Pt. 2 opening
4. which would allow us to believe Rin was still alive when obito attacked the fourth hokage and summoned the nine tails. Which proves that she isnt the original reason he turned evil.
601-Madara & Obitio- probably a spoiler too,cuz i'm 99% sure this is how it went down
Madara: [Obito's new mechanical body arises from the steam] "Obito... can you hear me?"
Obito: "Yes, Master."
Obito: [Obito looks at Madara] "Where is Rin? Is she safe? Is she all right?"
Madara: "It seems in your anger, you killed her."
Obito: "I...? I couldn't have! She was alive... I felt it!"
[Obito growls, and his Dark Side strength crushes everything around him in the room. He frees himself from the metal stretcher, and steps off. Madara has a smirk on his face]
Obito: "Nooooooooooooooooooo!"
Extra: Madara: "Also that rock did a number to your face, put on this mask, act like an idiot, and you're tobi now.. now be a good boy!"
Re: 601-Madara & Obitio- probably a spoiler too,cuz i'm 99% sure this is how it went
I've got a spoiler too. Zetsu is the earth right? well what if i told you that Zetsu was the boulder that crushed Obito. Zetsu and Madara planned it from the beginning. LMFAO
