Re: Obito : All plotholes explained
First, I have to hand it to you for a good post...well i should say that its just a theory.
I have not read through every single reply back to you, since I dont have that might time to see people agree / disagree with you. If i feel I should later, I will but for now lets get to my response.
I am still not a obito = tobi believer (in mind) ... even though i know i may be wrong. My main reason for why i feel im wrong is because of the WHOLE CHAPTER (599) being a flashback of obito. The only reason kishi would show us the flashback is if tobi is obito.
That stated, i have to disagree with your whole theory. In fact, it is simply flawed. The only reason I would support tobi being obito is what i mentioned before, that is kishi showing us
Obito's Flashback (through obito's eyes). All other
theories have too many counter arguments. I will go through each point below and describe my reason why your theory
might be wrong
I see people just don't want to burst out of the delusion that Tobi is someone else than Obito. Well this is to help you face your denial, Tobi is Obito and here's a few of your claimed "plotholes" debunked.
I read this to get out of the
tobi is not obito "delusion" and face my denial, but it didnt help...at least not with your theory.
"Obito was 14 during the Konoha attack"
I'm yet to see any true evidence about him being 14 during the Konoha attack, and I really don't see where the hell people pulled this crap out of. Anti-Obito theorists just made this up to have the whole timeline plot hole, so I don't see it as a valid argument.
I agree with you. I dont know why this is a huge deal...the specific age number. When you say Konoha attack, are you referring to the kyuubi attack?
We know kakashi, gai, and kurenai (among others - i dont remember all who were there) were asked to stay back by kurenai's father. My guess is that they were still in their mid-late teens (15-17).
Regardless, they (konoha ninja) were still too young to fight, and obito was about the same age as them. He was at least kakashi's age. That is what most obito theorists probably state. Thats why it isnt a timeline plot hole.
"Obito could not have fought Minato with his combat experience"
Obito did not defeat Minato, he got his ass kicked hard. He didn't even manage to land a blow on Minato. So don't talk as if they were on the same levels.
Tobi challenged the 4th to a very high degree. We didnt even know there was a Level 2 for yellow flash until then. Also you rephrased the quote (if it was an actual quote) by saying obito defeated minato. He didnt defeat minato - we both agree there, but he gave minato a run for his money.
"Obito could not have summoned the Kyuubi at his age"
Again, there's no evidence about him being 14, but let's assume your nonsense is true and he was 14, so what? Naruto has been cheating his way out of fights with the Kyuubi ever since he was 13. And at 16 he's mastered it to a whole different level than Obito could ever have. When you're a Uchiha and know the right jutsu to do it, what's stopping you from doing so?
Naruto has the kyuubi, lol. Thats why he was allowed to cheat. What does tobi have...just his super sharingan? Even naruto wasnt able to summon the boss-frog (forgot his name) many times. He did it about two times that i can recall - the first when jiraiya pushed naruto off the cliff and the second during the naruto vs gaara/shukaku fight. So, to be able to summon the fox itself wouldve taken a lot more chakra, espcially if the fox (kyuubi) is supposed to be the strongest of the 9 bijju.
Btw, when was the first time we saw Sasuke summon? We can compare obito to sasuke, that is to say obito was probably the same age as sasuke (during the oro invasion) or just a bit older than him (when the kyuubi attacked). What was sasuke able to do at that point? make 2-3 chidoris? Pretty sure that amount of chakra isnt able to summon the kyuubi - or even control it for that matter.
"Obito could not have manipulated the Mizukage"
We have very, very little information about this, and everyone's been jumping into the conclusion that the Mizukage was under a genjutsu. But last I checked the only person in the entire shinobi world capable of manipulating people to such an extent is Uchiha Shisui, and his eyes ended up in Itachi and Danzo's possession, not Obito's. What if Obito simply had him blackmailed? We don't know anything about this so this shouldn't even be an argument for any side.
As you stated not enough info to dispute this one way or another. I highly doubt blackmail wouldve been the case, but its also possible shusui had a brother with similar abilities...and tobi's left sharingan had similar abilities?
of course thats out there.
My theory is that he was manipulated through some genjutsu by tobi.
"Obito could not have given Rinnegan to Nagato"
It wasn't Obito who gave him Rinnegan, it was Madara himself before he died.
ok...so madara went to search for an uzumaki before he died? maybe zetsu gave him the eye. but yeah, we agree again obito couldnt have.
"Obito could not have helped Yahiko start the Akatsuki"
People think Tobi started the Akatsuki with Yahiko because they believe he's Madara's secret assistant. Well sorry to burst your bubble but Madara's almost certainly been referring to Zetsu as his assistant all this time. We know Madara got his hands on Hashirama DNA, and it's easy to assume he just somehow got Zetsu made out of it. Zetsu got entrusted the mission of recruiting members and finding someone like Obito to take over later on.
Why are you even arguing this? You and whoever makes that statement agree.
Obito couldnt have been around to help start akatsuki.
Your theory on zetsu is plausible, and definitely a possiblity. However, this kinda cancels out all the other theories (above) where tobi is obito. Why? You are pretty much saying zetsu revived obito, brainwashed and trained obito to become evil and master his sharingan in a short time. Although its possible, its not a very good theory.
"Obito would not have turned evil"
Because "turning" evil isn't a part of these series, I mean Sasuke, Nagato, Konan, and a few others didn't just decide to have their justice done against Konoha. Unless you watch this through Kishimoto's eyes where Naruto is the ultimate form of justice, there's no good and evil in these series, Konohagakure are also jerks who've been abusing of plot no jutsu since the dawn of time to dictate their rules over others, including a clan of their own, the Uchiha. There's plenty of reasons to "turn evil".
Obito wouldnt turn evil, mainly because he had a good enough background (from gaiden). All those you mentioned had some sort of back story to turn evil. From kakshi's gaiden, we know he was a good person - before his death. From the flashback, we see his love for rin, but is that the reason he turned evil? He gave up his eye, rose from the grave, just to have his justice for rins death and uchiha's injustice - both of which happened well after his (obito's) death.
"Obito was dead"
Well clearly he's not so dead given he's walking around right now. Orochimaru got killed and then sealed for eternity in a sword that can never be recovered again (due to Itachi being dead), yet he just walked back into the series as if it were is daily routine. So why are you surprised that Obito somehow survived that boulder?
Cant argue here, he is clearly alive - at least his body is there.
"Obito was unskilled"
So was Naruto and how he's completely overpowered.
... if you got any more ideas bring them in, getting bored now.
Naruto had many people train him and even help him. I cant begin to list them all, but here are a few i remember: jiraiya (before death ofc), old frog, kakashi/asuma (taught wind technique), bee/octopus, and even his parents - helped him.
who would have taught obito at the time of his training (after his death)? the zetsu clone only (your theory)? Even sasuke had to go through a lot of trouble to gain his MS.
Off topic...do you think sasuke is overpowered? The way you said naruto was, it kinda made me feel you dont like naruto (the character).
EDIT: Here's some more
Obito could not know about Hashirama and Madara
Why the hell not? Everyone who's curious enough does. Besides, he just got all he needed to know from Zetsu. Everything Madara knew, Zetsu knows. Everything Zetsu knows, Obito knows. It's that simple.
OK. not much to argue here (i believe you), but what the hell... so obito sat there and watched the lecture videos from madara (recorded by zetsu ofc) before he died. then turned evil. then planned to take over the world.
