Hashirama vs Itachi and Sasuke

[Joki]

Even outside of the attack range, its power and reliability are stressed. The flames have a high temperature, as they can create an upward movement of air currents which in turn can give rise to thunder clouds. A master of this technique can fire off several flames in succession and anyone caught in the technique could potentially be reduced to ashes
Third Databook, page 235

Uhh alright, you didn't post scans of it burning down a forest or showing the ability to do anything near burning down a forest which dwarfed the meteor. As I said, the meteor makes Susano'o look like a dot in size comparison.

A has a high tolerance of pain. tobi and bee screamed and moaned after being hit by it. nagato had to regenerate and use shinra tensie after being hit.

Right, except Tobi warped it away and it hardly burned through Nagato's clothes, Hashirama has no problem sprouting wood to push it away....implying they can somehow use Amaterasu to completely bypass the forest between the 3.

amaterasu burns through chakra based substances easily. sasukes fireball for one. it oneshotted a bunch of zetsus instantly who are made of hashirama cells

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. it forced edo nagato to regenerate minutes after being hit

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. it oneshotted pains summons

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obviously its more powerful the stronger an uchiha becomes and burns faster. the examples you pointed out were from sick itachi and novice sasuke. still sasuke spread it enough to effectively oneshot bee even though he barely escaped. the scale of the flames makes the mokuton unusable evne if it doesnt incinerate them. amaterasu countered kidomarus webs since bladed weapons couldnt cut them

Wut? It doesn't make it "unusable" when has that ever happened?, Amaterasu isn't burning down a forest, fact. And if they hit the Mokuton Hashirama will just spread the mokuton onto them or around them to cover them in Amaterasu.

no as hashiramas never shown that so i dont have to worry about it. but i expect it to burn

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Lol wtf, why would you linjk that, it has nothing to do with anything, in fact no Katon ever burned througyh those either. Hashirama's wood despite being clearly powerscaled down to Part 1 level covered the entire inside of the purple barrier, held back Hiruzen. Amaterasu will just sit on the wood and slowly burn it like every case of Amaterasu we've ever seen. Hashirama's effortlessly tore through a mud wall created by the God of Shinobi? Ok, thanks for hyping him up more

And yeah, Kabuto stated multiple times the only one who could beat Edo Madara at this point was Hashirama, and hyped his power up to a level far beyond Madara's. I think he can use his own technique better.

did you forget they can turn off small sections of a large amaterasu blaze if it hits an ally?

No, but they'll be forced to turn it off if they don't want to die which is perfectly ok with hashirama, no loss there

what forest? as we saw the forests take time to make but susano arrow was shown to be incredibly fast and susano is quick to activate. and lol if kirin cant get through a bunch of trees. chidori spear easily cut giant biiju tentacles.

Oh yeah like Danzo, Madara both sprouted them instantly hell Danzo's reacted to the thing in question, his only problem was that he couldn't control the cells. Hashirama on the other hand can, he can react easily implying Sasuke will enter Susano'o and fire an arrow the second the match starts before Hashi puts his hands together

i meant smashing the trees before they reach them. sasuke can form a single susano fist and ribs so it is a simple matter to defend against what your suggesting.

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Then why didn't any of the 5 kages do that? Simple, they couldn't, the forest was far too big and too fast created for them to do anything about. Susano'o punching and swiping at the forest will destroy an extremely small section of the forest lol

lol if it cant blow away pollen then why does uchihas use fireballs at all?

Maybe to kill people, unfortunately for them there are too many flowers for a Goukakyu to be effective, and Hashirama isn't restricted to making more. Hey guess whatm, you still said nothing about the fact Itachi and Sasuke have no knowledge about flower world whatsoever

it took onoki to destroy madara's edo powered rinnegan powered version. actually yes they do. one slash of totsuka and all the trees are in half and effectively unable to produce anything. sasuke has kirin which is what the dragon fire spam is for.

One slice of Totsuka won't do crap, Onoki had to spin 360 degrees with a Jinton that wasn't only long like Totsuka but also had girth. Also again, Itachi and Sasuke---No knowledge. Madara would have used it again but he said "You worry too much baout the flowers" because he wanted to show off his other hax techniques, Hashirama knows it will work and they don't have knowledge so they can't counter it in the first place, if they do he simply covers them in more.

read my post about only nagato being able to notice the pressure as hes a sensor

Implying the pressure doesn't exist when he uses it on a non sensor

The pressure's still there, it takes prep time, once he sees a sharingan eye(assuming he totally doesnt get the picture from the fact he's fighting Itachi Uchiha) and/or sees it bleed and/or sees him shut and open it and/or when it turns to MS, guy looks away. Very simple counter here, when all he has to do is clap his hands together. I really have no idea why I'm even debating this match when it's such a stomp

no it isnt as i pointed out

Yeah, and as I pointed out, yes it is

who is up against two of the strongest shinobi in narutoverse

IDK, but Itachi and Sasuke are up against the strongest one bar Rikudou Sage

hype is worthless. and no kabuto is the strongest even taking into account hype, hes totally unbeatable with edo tensei

>hype is worthless
Ok, Sakura solos Hashirama med difficulty so this match is a horrible stomp in Itachi and Sasuke's favor. Wait you don't honestly believe Sakura beats Hashirama do you? What's he gonna do? One punch and he's dead, he showed genin level skills at that vs Hiruzen at best. Kunai bombs blew his legs off, Sakura destroys him, guy's extremely weak and we can't use hype. Want to prove me wrong?

again with the hype? you do know its only peoples opinions that he was? he hasnt proven himself yet?

Lol'd

why would you pretend to know exactly how much chakra he has when his only fight was as an immortal edo?its uzumakis who have the special gigantic chakra levels and life force(naruto, nagato, kushina). senjus were named so because they are jacks of all trades. never specialising in anything.

I never said I knew exactly how much chakra he has, if he can do even 1 thing that Madara or Hashirama did without dying of exhaustion(acting like he dies from 1 forest is bullshit) then Itachi and Sasuke are screwed and the deal is sealed. It's obvious he can use more than 1 of his own techniques though

so we're using hashirama feats which is what your supposed to do when its hashirmaa who is fighting

Ok you want Hashirama feats? Beat EMS Madara and Kurama simultaneously for one. Which Sasuke and Itachi combined already can't compare, guy has flower world which Itach and Sasuke have no knowledge of

so someone whos not immortal and never tires > someone who does? without a sealing technique, even SM naruto would EVENTUALLY lose to edo shin or edo haku. since theres no stopping or killing them.

Err I was actually quoting what I thought you meant when you said "tell that to ET Tobirama"

jiraiya and raikage did that for minato. people are so quick to just jump on the bandwagon of whoever is latest on the "strongest people" list. kabuto explained he was invincible and madara was the strongest possible edo tensei ever. madara has had the cells since VOTE so duno what you mean. the hashi face was already there otherwise madara would be like "ZOMG A ****IN FACE ON MY CHEST" when he saw it.

Right, because he was a combination of Hashirama+Madara. I guess the "combination of Hashirama+Madara" is useless and saying "Hashirama's skills were so great people thought of them as myths just like the rikudou sage", all bullshit because Hashirama's version of the techniques is leagues weaker than the versions Madara used, and he has nowhere near enough chakra to use more than a few of them. ---USSJ logic

kabuto's not exactly paying attention to madara here. hes busy with itachi.
kabuto admits he doesnt know what madara can do which is why he asks madara to show him.

He was watching over the fight commentating over it during that time he used those techniques

because of your hashirama fanboyism and the hype of two peoples opinions? if he lived today or we got a flashback maybe id take said hype as fact.

Lol, fanboyism of a character that has like 10 pages of total screentime? Screw that, it's like having a favorite character as Tenten or Shizune or Anko or Kankuro or Shino etc, it's just retarded. They have like no personalities or development at all

We did get a flashback, Hashirama was fighting Kurama. I don't even know what hype you're talking about, the things people have said up to this point are facts, what do you think the hype is about?

your forgetting that itachi can keep one in that finger genjutsu indefinitely as long as what he puts into it is at least seemingly real. hashirama will never notice hes in a genjutsu because he lacks the sharingan or byakugan to notice the changes in his chakra and he will be so cocky in the fact he didnt look itachi in the eye to figure it out in time. this is a 2 vs 1 fight. id understand if it was 1 vs 1 it wouldnt be a game breaker. but time is crucial here. and once itachi informs hashiramas trapped then its susano arrow to the face time. hashirama wont notice the arrow as in his mind he thinks everything after he saw itachis finger was reality.

He won't know he's in a genjutsu? Makes sense, because when Sasuke, Kakashi, Sakura started popping out of Naruto's body parts...it's just way too hard to notice man, you'd have to be Einstein+1.

yes even great warriors can fall to simple tricks. itachi fell for sasuke's replacement. nagato got hurt by paper bombs.

Wut? No he didn't dude tanked dozens of them as long as its only for a moment, its effective.

itachi was caught by tayuyas genjutsu.

Proving why Bringer of Darkness is so effective, thanks

darkness doesnt paralyse or slow you down in any way or change your perception of reality. you can still hear smell, feel, use doujutsu. its basically if hashirama put a blindfold on their heads.

Sure, maybe a kage level area-of-effect genjutsu that covers them in darkness which even doujutsu can't see through

implying a jounin level akatsuki member who fought against kakashi in taijutsu is equal to sakura.

Riiight, that's totally what I meant. I definitely didn't mean that Sakura's monster punches that punch gigantic craters in the ground were superior to Hidan's or anything.

but its not hyped.

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its common knowledge that the site of hashirama vs madara was VOTE. and that hashirama won. but no one is like "zomg he beat them both at the same time therefore hes strongest". he was called strongest because he can CONTROL the damn things not defeat them.

He can control them, does it mean he had to fight him when he sustained injuries and told Kurama after battle he was sealing him? That enough proves you wrong, throughout the manga he was considered have "beat EMS Madara and Kurama", not "Sealed Kurama seconds into the fight before anything happened and then beat EMS Madara", both scans about the Madara vs Hashirama fight prove that.

the only being who can fight toe to toe with a bijuu and live without special controlling techniques is 3rd raikage

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. so dont tell me hashirama fought it toe to toe.

Lol not sure if srs

thats not my job as i dont pretend to know anything about what actually happened. all we were told is mito sealed it in herself to better aid hashirama. but why would it better aid him if he can controll all bijuu perfectly by himself?

Exactly, so proves she didn't intervene, Hashirama can control them she became the jinchuriki, this shit didn't take place all in 1 fight when Madara was in the middle of fighting Hashi. "Oh yeah Madara can u hang on 1 sec, lemmi just make Mito the jinchuriki and seal ur fox, and while were at it lets have a chat kyuubi"

when they displayed skill to put under control bee, kabuto, kakashi, each other etc and the fact that itachi said if he got EMS hed be stronger than EMS madara. sasuke should be too. i dont see why sasukes EMS prowess would be so incredibly lower than madara's.

Humans=the strongest bijuu? Nice logic.

EMS Sasuke didn't even try to do antyhing against Hachibi, he just used Amaterasu. Well sir, considering what Sasuke has shown and the fact nothing he has ever done can compare to one of the most hyped characters that we've seen fight on panel, you really think EMS Sasuke will beat Madara after what we've seen him pull off against the kages? This is bullshit and a double standard, you're speculating that EMS Sasuke should be on the level of Madara because he has EMS, baseless and you're the one who told me not to use hype.

only hiruzens vision was affected. he could stil hear smell and fight. according to him the darkness was problematic not a oneshot gambreaker hax.

So while Itachi and/or Sasuke are trapped in darkness, Hashirama covers them in trees

it already is. people are putting in sakumo and tobirama in matches for gods sake. if we are supposed to accept any and all hype then kabuto being in matches is retarded as he is "invincible". and putting itachi in matches is retarded as yata mirror "beats any and all attack".

How is Kabuto invincible? Yata Mirro is such a no-limits fallacy, that's not "hype" it's just an outright hyperbole.

Sakumo was hyped to be on the level of the sannin, so why not use hype? Dude has never showed any on-panel battle time whatsoever, ****ing Zaku from the chunin exams punches him and he dies according to you.

how do you know it happened?

HES NOT DOING IT. he has ahold of kurama's ankle so he can restrain him long enough for him to gain control. from minato we can assume madara didnt have control over kurama as he can only do it for a short time

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. after that short time kurama was fair game and hashirama gained control over him, using him to fight

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.

Here's your logic back at you yet again, panel of any of Itachi, or Sasuke's jutsu burning down a mokuton forest or destroying it in any way? If you can't, then they have no way to destroy it because we haven't seen any of Sasuke or Itachi's attacks destroying a mokuton forest or any forest at all. hurr

Took control and used him to fight my ass, you need to quit making these double standards, I guess it's totally taboo for me to use any kind of hype or speculation from things we can infer obviously happened. Meanwhile you go off claiming ridiculous stuff that's 100% speculation and for all we know just your fanfiction

i like how you take him holding onto his ankle as holding his own when kurama clearly wasnt even slowing down

His ankle is as big as Susano'o/Gamabunta/etc, and it's not his ankle, dude was held back, draw circles in paint where the hell you think he's "not even held back" or "wasnt even slowing down".

ok so it was the middle of the fight. how do you know madara summoned kurama IMMEDIATELY?

Lol

madara lost control all on his own. otherwise minato wouldnt say "ok so if hes madara he has a short time before he loses control over the fox" because that is how it apparently happened. minato couldnt wait for this to happen so he used his special sealing prowess taught to him by an uzumaki

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he had a village to rescue.

AKA, contract seal

meteor probably weighed only a few tons at best since onoki successfully lightened it. the lightened one took the full force of the second one

You forgot the whole part about the second one smashing into the first which in turn smashed into Onoki's head

no because he doesnt have mokuton! hashirama doesnt need the seal since madara lost control over kurama all on his lonesome possibly due to the strain of maintaining the genjutsu while at the same time fighting hashirama senju.

That's cool, Kurama doesn't miraculously disappear

as you pointed out, rikudo sage could be a nobody who didnt split any bijuus or created any moon

Yep, def loses to Sakura/Konohamaru mang

yes. again this is kishi lol. itachi was like "this is totsuka, any last words?" this is hashiramas version. kurama was too powerful to run free (ergo he wasnt being controlled by madara. further evidence madara freed kurama on his own without the help of any contract seal). or why say "roam free"? unless this was some post madara fight where hashirama later gained control over him. but if that were the case why did kushina say he got control DURING the battle? and how on earth did mito tell her somethign so specific when the battle itself was BARELY common knowledge. sasuke didnt even know who madara was. whatever happened was known to few and forgotten by most like madara himself.

The dude was battered and bruised from the fight, again it obviously didn't happen 2 seconds in and if it happened some time mid fight or around there it doesn't matter when it was, Hashirama survived long enough against it.

those people are just trolls. i maintain most hypes unreliable when trying to decide whod actually win in a fight since different abilities can lose to weaker ones

I doubt they're trolls unless they seriously are trolls. They want to know who will win between Hashirama, strongest shinobi or X. They don't intend to say "Durp genin level hashirama w/o hype", I have no idea what you can classify as "hype" anyway other than the obvious which counts for something coming from the 2 most reliable people about the situation.

but not full power. healing has never completely restored anyones chakra IMMEDIATELY otherwise why did karin still fear for sasuke after getting healed by her? why did he even need recovery time post deidara if he can go back to full health and power immediately? same with when naruto stays in bed for days when sakura healed him already

Huh, seemed to work when Tsunade healed Onoki and Gaara.

by making alot of trees and surrounding his ankle? so gaara can hold his own vs kurama by making lots of sand?

No, because Hashirama's mokuton was enough to hold back Kurama, Gaara's sand is nowhere near that strong. There's a panel where Hashirama's holds him back, it's strong enough. Kurama swipes a paw, Gaara's ****ed

madara declared hed turn his mokuton to coal and made a giant katon

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are you saying fire DOESNT burn forests?

No, I'm saying weak katon which have never been used to that scale will not make a gigantic chakra forest burn. Or rather even a regular forest. So Madara, whose Katon is obviously the greatest Katon in the series is who you use for evidence? That's just more support for Hashirama being more powerful, he dealt with Katon like those! Itachi's and Sasuke's are leagues leagues leagues weaker than that katon, want proof? Look at every single katon ever performed by Itachi or Sasuke. And even the katon that he used right on the forest did shit to the flower world as you can see on the next page. You just killed your own argument there

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Wtf? It's not even as thick as Orochimaru's chest,why'd you even link those.

Besides at best Totsuka will be able to slash and reach 3% of the forest from size comparison.

how will hashirama have knowledge of finger genjutsu before its too late?

Hmm, dunno, maybe by clapping his hands and making mokuton, mokuton bunshin, not looking at them, them being covered in wood/flower world, or him totally realizing that he's in a genjutsu by applying common sense assuming Itachi or Sasuke isn't dead first.

wind jutsus couldnt go through it so chakra based air cannot go into it. unless the pollen acts like normal poison gas but even poison gas isnt created by a chakra based mokuton

Of course it acts like "poison gas", even the kages were trying to avoid it but still breathed it, although the part I love most is how you've acted like Itachi and Sasuke instantly know how to counter flower world throughout this whole thing. You said yourself Madara is hardly common knowledge. They won't even notice the pollen let alone not breathe it or instantly know to destroy all the flowers.

exactly. how can anyone expect to use the sage or hashirama when they are 99% hype and we dont have evidence of speed feats, seal making speed feats, what chakra cost the jutsus have, their weaknesses etc? your supporting me by saying all this, not going against it. all we know about flower tree world is how madara used it.

Which is why hype should be used, because we can infer each one of these things by using I dunno...logic and not being stubborn about it because you don't want the character(s) you're supporting to lose?

Might as well just make any Genin vs Hashirama thread, and most genin would win because Hashirama is weak as crap without considering his status

itachis fought countless opponents and your saying he wouldnt know who hashirama is and how to form a counter for hashirama knowing what he might do?
and your still going against yourself. you go on a rant when i said "should be able to" but speculate about the uchihas that hashirama fought and what ems madara can do.

Riiight, because the last thing Uchiha would do is genjutsu.

Just because you know something(assuming Itachi knows shit about Hashirama) doesn't mean he can do anything about it. He definitely doesn't know about flower world and it was never hinted, implied, etc anywhere, guy's gonna breathe it and he's gonna die.

then why is madara the ultimate being and second sage of six paths/fusion of himself and shodai? if you dont like who you are, you take from others. madara took from shodai and surpassed him.

It was never ever implied ever that he surpassed him, Kabuto created the ET and considers Hashirama stronger still. I find this BS, unless you can show where this Madara was ever considered stronger. If anything Hashirama's versions of the mokuton technique crap on Madara's versions.

no he didnt. he didnt get rid of it and still won. he didnt dodge kusanagi because he knew he was gonna die

Right, how is the kusanagi relevant to him having to break the genjutsu? Why would you risk it if you could just break the genjutsu instead, pointless and this is horrible logic, it makes literally no sense. The kusanagi was unrelated entirely to the genjutsu

if your gonna bring that up then itachi is "completely invincible"

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Sure, good thing there's nothing under him and Susano'o doesn't protect against air. Mokuton from underground GG

by your logic hashirama can defeat anyone because kabuto said so even though

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mokuton from underground or..ORR how about this: Itachi, who has absolutely no knowledge of flower world whatsoever, will breathe the pollen because he has no idea that it's there. Nonsense, right?

and because he got the "god of shinobi" in genjutsu even though hiruzen lacks sharingana dn therefore its a hundred times harder for him to see through it.

Yeah, genjutsu lets you "see through it". Doesn't help you break it. He already knew about Hashi's genjutsu problem was getting out.

madara's rinnegan chakra.

Hashirama has jutsu that he can't even use now? Oh boy..

and in that fast time, it will be like a snail's pace to sharingan's precog. in that time, finger genjutsu + susano. sasuke formed ribs in like 2 panels. he formed full susano in a second at most

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and you act like hashriama can make a fully formed forest bigger than a meteor in less than that time. when edo madara/hashirama fusion with rinnegan =/= hashirama.

Kurenai dodged Itachi's kick, should have never happened due to pre-cog since clapping hands together somehow is like a snail despite Itachi never ever ever showing that speed.

it killed pains summons instantly, and defeated bee pretty easily. it "killed" edo nagato.

Yeah, because "killing Pain summons" and beating (getting fooled by in the process) KB with them, and barely burning through clothes/skin=burning down a giant forest.

i hope you didnt mean invincible immortal unlimited chakra rinnegan ems madara fused with hashirama's face < hashirama

Since Hashirama has no way to seal ET that we know of then obviously not

smashed by susano fist after full susano goes back to rib + fist. they can do that you know.

That's like putting a dent in the Empire State Building.

one of the frogs said kurama would be completely revived if it sprung free from naruto once again. even though he has half of him sealed its possible he regained his full power over time. just like bijuus cant die, they only revive at a later date.

Fair enough

it came out where hashirama wants it to. but good luck exploiting that when the susano can go from a full one to a basic rib + arm in a second. sand > wood in restraining power.

Ok, none of that stops Susano'o from having an opening underneath it so..

no he doesnt lol. what fanfiction are you saying now?

Fanfiction? Da ****? Madara actually has the on-panel feats and you don't think Gaara gets one shot?

you keep saying kabuto said no current shinobi can fight hashirama on equal terms but how is he supposed to know intimately about each and every current shinobi's current power level? last he saw narutos power it was a clone 1/13th the original's power and it was KCM.
i know that. all the more reason why naruto/tobi > itachi and sasuke > hashirama

which they dont

I mean considering Naruto shtis on Itachi/Sasuke, it doesn't matter if Kabuto knows about him or not since he's unrelated, he's either still below Hashirama or above him. since he completely shits on Sasuke/Itachi it speaks for itself

so that means hes automatically their perfect counter? even though no uchiha has the same power and all have unique mangekeyos? at best hashirama fought against two MS users who probably relied solely on that. itachi and sasuke have more than just their genjutsus, amaterasu and susano.

Hmm let's see here, unique Mangekyous? Sasuke has--Amaterasu, Susnao'o. Itachi has, Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi, Susano'o. Madara has Susano'o, all these techniques sound very similar, but you claim they're all unique. Strange.

irrelevant

Actually not irrelevant, Hashirama's on-par with Madara(althouigh he did beat him and Kurama together despite the fact you have to deny it with every fiber of your being to prevent team 2 from losing). So considering Madara is currently soloing the 5 kages, sure says a lot on where Hashirama's position is.

The rest of your post isn't replying to me as far as I know but I skimmed it, should be all I guess

tl;dr

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[narutownsyouall]

Yeah, I know. But he's at full health (I should have included that in the OP).



He's only fought one or two MS/EMS users (Madara and Izuna). We don't know if any of them had Blaze Release, and we know for sure that none of them had the Sword of Totsuka or Yata Mirror. Plus, I doubt any of them were as smart as Itachi, or had Izanami.

Sure he can look at their legs, but he won't see Amaterasu or Susanoo Arrows coming at him then. Therefore, he dies almost instantly.



1. Kakashi - Tsukuyomi (passed out)
2. Sasuke - Tsukuyom9 (passed out)
3. Sasuke pt. 2 - Tsukuyomi (broke free, but only a Sharingan user can)

And he's at full health, therefore more MS techs.



How many people have actually fought Itachi seriously?

1. Kakashi - Tsukuyomi (passed out)
2. Sasuke - Tsukuyom9 (passed out)
3. Sasuke pt. 2 - Tsukuyomi (broke free, but only a Sharingan user can)

And nearly healthy my ass. He had been plagued by illness for a long time.



If Hashirama is looking at their feet (as you say), they don't have to get close. He can get one-shot by Amaterasu, Susanoo Arrows, or Kirin. Even a simple Fire Release. His clones won't be able to do much against Amaterasu, and Itachi (very fast), can get to the real Hashirama. Or either of the bros can hit him with Amaterasu while the other fights the clones.

We don't even know if Hashirama can make as many clones as Madara.



Sasuke can summon a hawk and fly in the air to avoid it. The Kages took a while to pass out, and Sasuke was able to summon Manda quickly against Deidara. Summoning a hawk to avoid it should be easily like that. Then he can hit Hashirama (no eye contact) with Amaterasu, or occupy him till Itachi gets up.



Yeah, and Hashirama is not > than the 5 Kages. Madara is edo, has the Rinnegan, and has Mokuton now. Of course he'll feel a difference in power from when he was alive.



I don't know, maybe Katon (fire release) or Amaterasu? Madara (EMS) obviously survived many encounters with Hashirama, so two MS/EMS users can too. Two Katon users should be about equal to EMS MADARA's Katon. Madara has had a significant power boost as a edo.

That also means that Hashirama's Mokuton probably wasn't as good as Madara's size-wise (as seen in Part 1 too).



Anyone has a limit. Its just a side-effect of Amaterasu that the eyes bleed. Sasuke has used Amaterasu almost continuously sometimes, so one Amaterasu ring won't harm him. And, as said before, he can use a Kirin on the battlefield (while Itachi uses Susanoo) so Hashirama has to either get killed, or avoid and end the Genjutsu. Though I doubt anyone can avoid Kirin.



Preforming it is near impossible? Seeing that there will be TWO MS users (Amaterasu?), also using Katon (FIRE) to counter Mokuton, the heat will be generated in no time. And if Hashirama won't see Kirin coming (he'll be looking at their legs, right?) Kirin should one shot him. You can't heal yourself if you've been fried to a crisp, and killed instantly. And/OR in the time he takes to recover, Itachi can speed blitz him or hit him with an Amaterasu or Sword of Totsuka.



The Kages took a little while to fall asleep (with Madara heating the place up), so Sasuke should be able to summon a hawk (as fast as against Deidara), and fly away. And note that Hashirama's Mokuton was not and probably is not on the same scale as Madara's. And if they do happen to start getting drowsy, Sasuke or Itachi can hit him w/Amaterasu while he's too busy looking at their legs.




I doubt distance matters for Tsukuyomi. And Itachi has a "5" in speed, letting him get near Hashirama anyway.

And how do you know that Madara has amazing Genjutsu? Itachi's Tsukuyomi is so far unrivaled, and only an Uchiha can break it.

And remember Madara was probably the only MS user Hashirama ever fought, or one of the only good ones (no other Uchiha is famous).

AND if he's not making eye contact with even one brother, Amaterasu can hit him through the other brother. Hashirama is simply at a disadvantage because he's handicapped in a 2 on 1, and because of Itachi's Tsukuyomi preventing him from making eye contact.




Amaterasu hasn't shown to have a certain distance which it can appear from. And a healthy Itachi probably can. And controlling it (Blaze Release) doesn't matter; Only A dodged an Amaterasu formed right on him, with his V2 armor. Hashirama doesn't have that speed. And if he's not making eye contact, he won't see it coming.

As for the clones: One brother distracts them (preferably Itachi) with Susanoo (spiritual weapons) and Amaterasu, while the other (Sasuke) hits Hashirama, who's not making eye contact, with Amaterasu formed right on him, or a Susanoo arrow (only Kamui was able to avoid it).



Yeah, but the burns will stay from before. And the wood would burn even more, in fact. And while he's busy pushing it out and healing: Susanoo Arrow or Amaterasu to the face.



Sasuke and Itachi can jump in the air. And if Hashirama's looking at their feet, Itachi and Sasuke can Amaterasu or Susanoo Arrow him while he's forming the hand seals for Mokuton. Blaze Release can burn off Mokuton binding the Susanoo.

If Hashirama isn't looking at the ground, where will he look? If he tries looking at the Susnaoo's arms (Susanoo Arrows), he'll probably end up looking the bros in the eyes too. And clones can also be Genjutsu'd or Amaterasu'd, if you haven't noticed.

And Zetsu isn't even a human, he's literally Mokuton. Hashirama can't do what he can; Yamato and Madara can't.



Amaterasu or Sasuke's Blaze Release can easily defeat Mokuton that's binding Susanoo. The bros won't just stand around either.



LMFAO nice assumption, that's been proven false. You think Sasuke will just stand around and let himself die?

Hello? Susanoo? Blaze Release? Amaterasu? Susanoo Arrows? Lightning Release? Fire Release? :sy:



Kirin is good; Hashirama has no damn counter to it. Only a Susanoo was able to withstand it, and Hashirama won't even see it coming (not making eye contact).

We're talking about a healthy Itachi. When he was on his deathbed, he kept a perfect Susanoo for a good amount of time against Sasuke.

And no, he can't do what Zetsu does. Zetsu is literally some Mokuton/DNA hybrid. Hashirama is human with Wood Release. Big difference.



Not necessarily, as by what I've shown.




Not making eye contact, he'll probably be raped, even if he doesn't stand around (Susanoo Arrow).




He's fought what, one MS user? And we have no proof that Madara's Genjutsu is nearly as good as Itachi's Tsukuyomi.

The naivety on Hashirama's side is amazing here. He's not a damn god. Especially not against two MS/EMS using prodigies.

Have you ever been in a fight? Or just had some fun body boxing a person? What about wrestling or any sport for the matter?

In every single one which I have done, not once did I rely on staring them in the eyes.

Body language is more important than anything the eyes say. You act like Hashirama is going to be staring at the ground the whole time. And another thing is that Hashirama has clones which Yamato has shown are great for intel. So not only is your whole not looking him in the eyes thing absolute bullcrap but His clones make up for his inability to look him in the eyes (which there is no reason to do).

Madara has the same level in base gen as Itachi (he paralyzed a guy with a look) Although I do not know about Tsykiyomi.

And susanoo arrow does not even matter Danzo with an incomplete version of WS was able to deflect it no problem.

And Zetsu is Hashirama cells. There is nothing more to him and all of his powers derive from Mokuton. Meaning that Everything he can do. Hashirama can do better.

Now as for the flower world. How is sasuke going to get out of it fast enough when he would have to not only bite his thumb then summon then the hawk would have to actually make it to an altitude higher than the flower world. And remember how it took maybe 4 panels to grow the entire flower world?

Its faster and even if they could see the pollen they would not know what it is or how to counter it. And do not ofrget the only reason the Kage survived it was because Garra was able to lift them to safety in the nick of time. Or else they would have been crushed like ants.

And again tell me! How in the hell are either of the Uchiha going to get close enough when they are dealing with kage level clones and Mokuton from all around. Not to mention weapon branches. Any attack they get on him can be healed. And any 1 shots they can do are slow and hard to pull off.

Hashirama not only has range but he also has a huge power gap that decimates the Uchiha. It took history's most powerful Uchiha to have to get the most powerful tailed beast just to fight Hashirama and he still lost.

I know it may sound bad for the Brothers to lose like this but his power is just on a larger magnitude than we have seen in any other character except Madara(edo).

Its not like they are weak they are just outgunned.

 

[TobisPawn]

Have you ever been in a fight? Or just had some fun body boxing a person? What about wrestling or any sport for the matter?

In every single one which I have done, not once did I rely on staring them in the eyes.

Body language is more important than anything the eyes say. You act like Hashirama is going to be staring at the ground the whole time. And another thing is that Hashirama has clones which Yamato has shown are great for intel. So not only is your whole not looking him in the eyes thing absolute bullcrap but His clones make up for his inability to look him in the eyes (which there is no reason to do).

The thing is, the people he's up against use their eyes as a primary source of power. Hell, if it was anyone but an Uchiha (TWO Uchihas), Hashirama would be good looking at their legs. But they can use Amaterasu without moving any part of their (Sasuke and Itachi) bodies. That is why you're analogy does not work.

There is no reason to look in their eyes? Tell me, how will he see Amaterasu coming? How will he see a Susanoo arrow coming? How will he see Kirin coming (looking at his legs)?

Sure, Hashirama's clones can yell out info to Hashirama each time, but an Amaterasu can already be activated by then. And there's no proof that he can make as many clones as Madara, so they shouldn't be issues to take out.

Madara has the same level in base gen as Itachi (he paralyzed a guy with a look) Although I do not know about Tsykiyomi.

Exactly. If Tsukuyomi hits, its all over for Hashirama.

And susanoo arrow does not even matter Danzo with an incomplete version of WS was able to deflect it no problem.

Again, if Hashirama isn't making eye contact, and if his clones can't rely info fast enough/are killed by Itachi or Sasuke, Hashirama won't see the arrows coming.

And Zetsu is Hashirama cells. There is nothing more to him and all of his powers derive from Mokuton. Meaning that Everything he can do. Hashirama can do better.

Then why isn't Hashirama also a venus fly trap monster thing? There is a possibility that he can do it though, but not necessarily better.

And hiding underground won't really save him. Amaterasu can kill White Zetsu, it can kill him.

A sword can pin Black Zetsu, it can pin him.

Now as for the flower world. How is sasuke going to get out of it fast enough when he would have to not only bite his thumb then summon then the hawk would have to actually make it to an altitude higher than the flower world. And remember how it took maybe 4 panels to grow the entire flower world?

He was able to summon Manda, place him under Genjutsu, and teleport himself away in the few seconds before Deidara's (who was like 10 feet away) explosion overwhelmed him. Going by feats, Sasuke can summon a hawk and fly away before he falls asleep.

It took 4 panels to grow the world - That gives them more time to evade it.

Its faster and even if they could see the pollen they would not know what it is or how to counter it. And do not ofrget the only reason the Kage survived it was because Garra was able to lift them to safety in the nick of time. Or else they would have been crushed like ants.

Again, going by feats, Sasuke can summon a hawk and fly away fast enough. They'll be able to tell that its dangerous, though, and immediately think of a solution (summoning a hawk).

And again tell me! How in the hell are either of the Uchiha going to get close enough when they are dealing with kage level clones and Mokuton from all around. Not to mention weapon branches. Any attack they get on him can be healed. And any 1 shots they can do are slow and hard to pull off.

Kage level clones - That's an assumption. They can still die from a strong enough hit. And we don't know if Hashirama can make nearly as many clones as Madara. Katon, Raiton, and Susanoo (arrows) should be enough to take them out.

Mokuton all around - Blaze Release on Susanoo, and constantly moving should keep them safe. OR Sasuke can summon hawks to fly on, giving them distance, from where they can spam Amaterasu.

Weapon branches - What does this mean? They can be blocked by Susanoo, burned by fire, or avoided by hawks.

Hashirama's healing - He obviously can't heal everything, as he was bloody after his fight with Madara. You think he can heal a Susanoo Arrow that's pierced a vital organ (since he won't see it coming)? Or one (OR TWO) Amaterasus to the face?

Any one shots are slow - What?!? Amaterasu forms almost instantly. Only a V2 A was able to dodge on forming on top of him. And Kakashi was only able to Kamui a Susanoo Arrow. And Danzo, making eye contact, had to use wood to block one.

Hashirama not only has range but he also has a huge power gap that decimates the Uchiha. It took history's most powerful Uchiha to have to get the most powerful tailed beast just to fight Hashirama and he still lost.

Range - His Mokuton sprouting everywhere can be avoided by flying (hawk), constantly moving, or any elemental attacks (Lightning cutting it in half, Katon burning, and Amaterasu completely burning).

Madara had Kurama stripped from him. It was pretty much EMS Madara vs Hashirama, seeing that Hashirama can subdue Kurama. Don't tell me you think EMS Madara > Healthy MS Itachi (Izanami, genius, spiritual weapons) AND EMS Sasuke (Blaze Release, pretty smart).

Two MS users instead of one multiplies the danger by more than just double.

I know it may sound bad for the Brothers to lose like this but his power is just on a larger magnitude than we have seen in any other character except Madara(edo).

Its not like they are weak they are just outgunned.

Only time we've seen Hashirama's power was in Part 1, where his power wasn't even that great. Madara's Mokuton is probably on a way larger scale, because he's edo, has Uchiha chakra AND Senju chakra, AND he's enhanced by Kabuto.

If anything, Hashirama is outgunned in a 2 on 1.

 

[USSJ Future Trunks]

genjutsu- hashirama fought uchihas all his life and the number 1 rule to fighting uchihas is to not look in their eyes. if hashirama got caught in uchiha genjutsu then he wouldve died. if you think genjutsu has any relevance in this fight then i feel sorry for you.

kakashi didnt look into his eyes and still got caught. fighting uchihas all your life doesnt mean you can predict each and every move two uchihas have. hes only ever fought 1 or 2 MS users and madara hasnt used a single genjutsu as an edo

the moment a blood is seen dripping down itachi or sasukes face, a wood wall is sprung up. he could also sprout wood from his body if he is hit and then heal himself.

what happens when sasuke uses enton and spreads the amaterasu around in a circle. at the very least it gives itachi an opening

hashiramas mokuton is strong enough to restrain 100% kurama. dont say but oh restraining bijuu is his specialty. mokuton doesnt suppress the chakra,

yamato wanted to suppress it even without the necklace when naruto trained to control it and he was abel to do it pretty quickly vs 4 tails

restraining susano with mokuton wouldnt be a problem. mokuton would restrain its arms and body so it doesnt break the branches by swinging its sword

susano can be turned off if its restrained. then reactivated to smash through it

hashirama can also make mokuton branches come out from under susano, pull them out and make them inhale pollen from the flower tree world.

and you think they will stand there and let this happen? amaterasu and finger genjutsu or simply sasuke can force hashirama back on defensive with chidori spear and chidori senbon. lightning is the perfect counter to mokuton since its suiton + doton. chidori spear will drill right through and chidori nagashi will channel along the branches to hashi himself.

if the brothers decide to engage in close combat with ribcage susano, hashirama can make mokuton clones to aid him

despite the fact its never said he can use more than one mokuton clone. and its not like itachis bad at using said clones.

he could also fight them by growing wood from his arms and body.

suicide as itd only allow sasuke to funnel lightning chakra down the branches

moment a blood is seen dripping down itachi or sasukes face, a wood wall is sprung up.

if hes averting his eyes to counter genjutsu how will he see the blood?

hashirama can keep an eye on both itachi and sasuke with mokuton clones. people seem to disregard that hashirama can use clones

i disregard that hashirama can use more than one. only madara naruto and kakashi use the taijuu version

susano arrows are deflected by hashirama growing a tree from his shoulder like danzo.

leaving him open to attack from other directions.

why didnt itachi use this god-like finger genjutsu at the beginning of the kabuto fight when kabuto didnt block his own vision?

kabuto has SM. he'd probably sense the pressure in itachis finger. or its PIS. or his goal is tsukiyomi so why cast anything else?

hashirama can counter amaterasu by sprouting wood from his body anyway.

bee can sprout tentacles from his body and look what happened. he cant possibly counter having his whole body being set on fire

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ill wait

I think Amaterasu is not a jutsu that could work against Hashirama. We've seen through Yamato and Danzo that they were able to pull tree branches from their own body and seperate it.

danzo beat amaterasu with izanagi not mokuton. yamato could barely do anything vs the lightning enhanced sword. sasuke could have cut his head off easily in the time it took yamato to sprout wood.

So i suppose that Hashirama even if he gets touch by Amaterasu, he could simply push Amaterasu away from his body by building tree branches on the part of his body which get caught by the jutsu.

sasuke's enton would easily spread it to his whole body. hard to fight when your very face and chest are burning to death. and unless hashirama wants to die he wont physically attack sasuke's ring of fire

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He has fought Uchihas all his life and even the most powerful than them(Madara),

it doesnt mean hes encountered those eye techniques combined with everything else the bros have (chidori, exploding clones, hawk summon, kirin, totsuka, yata) and i doubt madara gave up an eye to use izanami

After all it's not a jutsu Itachi created, but a forbidden jutsu from Uchiha clan.

it doesnt mean they will sacrifice their eyes just to win a fight. but here anything goes. they dont care about self preservation, just killing hashirama.

hashirama wouldnt look at his finger when itachi tries to cast it. why did itachi not use this on nagato then.

he had a better tech to use (totsuka)

hashirama wouldnt look at his finger when itachi tries to cast it. why did itachi not use this on nagato then.

yes he is. they can break it easily but he will still trap them for a few moments. it took a long time for naruto to realise it was in fact a genjutsu

Why do you think Itachi never used this type of genjutsu against another opponent?

because his other opponents fell into his eye version. no finger needed

With his bringer of darkness for example, Itachi will see nothing, so use of genjutsus are useless.

sharingan can see through all genjutsu and actually sees chakra colour. so vision impairments meaningless.
sasuke: these eyes can see well in darkness

First of all Hashirama had the wood clones considering that Madara stated that he was the only one who could see through them.

no he said that about the single wood clone he used to avoid being sealed.

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"its hashiramas clone jutsu which i saw through with ocular techniques" not hashiramas mass clones. clone.

Hashirama has fought better Uchiha than Itachi and sasuke. Madara.

theres no real evidence madara without rinnegan or hashi chakra is a better fighter than EMS sasuke and MS itachi combined. maybe separate but this is 2 vs 1 and hashi is facing a massive amount of techs hes never seen before in his whole life.

Sasuke after being healed had about the same amount of chakra as Itachi has.

how do you know? wheres this implied?

And why the faq would Hashirama even look at the Uchiha. All he would have to do is start flower world and its pretty much over.

like he did vs hiruzen or madara? as i recall it looks like hashirama used regular nativity of world of trees in both battles

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your trying to make hashirama behave out of character out of desperation. madara obviously survived the technique as he survived the battle

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and wrested hashiramas power from him. itachi can use the same method madara did.

And how many Kage and beyond level ninja's has the Finger gen worked on? thats right 0

couldnt you say the same about C4 and koto amatsukami?

And MS being faster than Mokuton? Did you forget the danzo fight?

no. the susano was faster than hand seals and danzo had already seen it before at least twice so he was able to figure out a counter in time the second time.

And considering that Hashirama is better at mokuton than danzo

we have no idea to what extent

danzo summoned a tree to change projection of a susanoo arrow in the time between firing and hitting it.

he only did that because it was his only option and cost him chakra. and it was only diverted inches away from him. another attack behind the arrow and he is a sitting duck.

 

[USSJ Future Trunks]

Oh wait he also could have done it to all the Uchiha who wanted to turn on the village.

point me to where genjutsu has captured multiple opponents at one time.

Stop trying to say that a Hokage is going to get caught in a low level genjutsu as your only argument.

itachi was caught in kurenai's. that doesnt mean the genjutsu was strong. itachi says it wont work on him and he reversed it. but theres no way he can PREVENT it from being cast on him in the first place

How are they going to deal with the flower world or fight the nativity world

all that can be countered by killing him before he can cast a full forest. lightning > wood which is made of water and earth elements. the first thing sasuke can do is a chidori spear to the brain.

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follow that up with chidori senbon, and amaterasu projectile barrage

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the brothers will not stand there and watch a forest appear.

How about we throw in some clones and see how they fight Kage level clones that all use mokuton and regeneration.

how can the clones use regeneration? how cna hashirama use taijuu mokubunshin?

I give Hashi, if he fought a bijuu like Kurama then he must have a way to deal with TBB level of power.

yeah. controlling them before they fire one. he did not fight kurama. he got control over him.

Like Hashirama will ever fall to a finger genjutsu -.-

he can and will. he isnt a doujutsu user. at best he has to make the seal and break it. that will take time even realising hes been caught in one. danzo was impressed he could be captured in one.

srsly he raped uchihas all his life , u people telling me no1 of them ever tried a genjutsu on him?

every genjutsu ever has worked once cast. the only difference is how fast they are released/broken or if they can be broken at all

Amatarasu is good for fighting him but again how are they going to get close enough? And

amaterasu hit a bijuu who was like a mile away

Right, except Tobi warped it away

good for him. except that doesnt lend well to the argument it doesnt cause pain

Hashirama has no problem sprouting wood to push it away....

yes he does as it can be cast on his whole body with enton. hashirama is not made of wood ok?

implying they can somehow use Amaterasu to completely bypass the forest between the 3.

what forest? sasuke has been shown to use amateraus and susano on mokutn users IMMEDIATELY. hashirama did not use mokuton right off the bat when fighting against hiruzen as a bloodlusted puppet. nor did madara immediately use his super mokuton on naruto and gaara

Wut? It doesn't make it "unusable" when has that ever happened?, Amaterasu isn't burning down a forest, fact.

yes it is. the size of the flames created vs bee were alot. and your telling me a small forest can counter it? while hashiramas being attacked from every direction? sasuke and itachi have been shown to go to MS right off the bat even against fodders for a quick stomp victory. especially itachi going to genjutsu off the bat.

And if they hit the Mokuton Hashirama will just spread the mokuton onto them or around them to cover them in Amaterasu.

wood burns you know. if he tries putting mokuton on the flames it will only burn more. thats like dousing a bonfire in oil. what do you thinks gonna happen when a wood fire fights someone with inextinguishable fire which can be spread and manipulated by its greatest user ever born (sasuke)?

Hashirama's wood despite being clearly powerscaled down to Part 1 level covered the entire inside of the purple barrier, held back Hiruzen

it didnt cover it instantly. but you think hashirama can make giant forests INSTANTLY

Amaterasu will just sit on the wood and slowly burn it like every case of Amaterasu we've ever seen

IT DOESNT SLOWLY BURN. zetsu clones were incinerated in two panels

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the higher the level of the ninja the faster it burns through anything it hits. itachi took out nagatos animal paths in one shot each

Hashirama's effortlessly tore through a mud wall created by the God of Shinobi?

ive seen fodders make more impressive earth style walls in the war arc. that wall was only strong enough to defend against tobirama's tiny water dragon bullet

nd yeah, Kabuto stated multiple times the only one who could beat Edo Madara at this point was Hashirama
no he didnt. not even once did he even remotely say anything like that.
"hashirama who was stronger than madara"
"my edo tensei is invincble"
"im invincible"
"theres no shinobi on hashirama's level anymore. everyone says that"
"his power was like a fairy tale"

yeah nothing about hashirama being > edo madara

hyped his power up to a level far beyond Madara's

madara is the trump card while kabuto didnt know what he could actually do with it. he was shocked and pleased with the results. and besides he made it a fusion of hashirama and madara because hes trying to get closer to the sage of six paths which is senju + uchiha so he chose strongest senju and strongest dead uchiha to merge.

Then why didn't any of the 5 kages do that? Simple, they couldn't

they are exhausted, onokis jinton was a last resort, and tsunade cant smash a forest by herself. im not surprised 5 kage cant smash a few trees as they were neither near madara, nor do they have somethign as strong as susano.

the forest was far too big and too fast created for them to do anything about

onoki destroyed it in one shot

Hey guess whatm, you still said nothing about the fact Itachi and Sasuke have no knowledge about flower world whatsoever

the first time hashirama used it on madara, neither did madara. but madara is stated to have survived every single encounter

One slice of Totsuka won't do crap,

yes it will. hashirama cant make giant forests in 1 second.

because he wanted to show off his other hax techniques

for the majority of the fight hes only used two techs, wood and susano. what does he want to show off? im waiting for it

they can't counter it in the first place

sharingan will see the particles in the air and then they blow it away with a giant merged fireball. cmon if sasuke can see nanobombs do you think he will miss pollen?

The pressure's still there, it takes prep time

so does mokuton. and the pressure wasnt actually amaterasu. it was koto amatsukami

nce he sees a sharingan eye(assuming he totally doesnt get the picture from the fact he's fighting Itachi Uchiha) and/or sees it bleed and/or sees him shut and open it and/or when it turns to MS, guy looks away.

no he wont look away as as soon as he sees it, hes in genjutsu.

Very simple counter here, when all he has to do is clap his hands together.

and all itachi has to do is open his eyes and look at hashirama.

but Itachi and Sasuke are up against the strongest one bar Rikudou Sage

kabuto? kabutos only strongest with his full edo army

Ok, Sakura solos Hashirama med difficulty

i didnt say that. hashirama does have feats like capturing hiruzen twice

Kunai bombs blew his legs off

paper bombs blew prime nagatos legs up. and kunais stopped rinnegan's vision. in itachi and hanzo's hands suddenly basic ninja techs become deadly

Beat EMS Madara and Kurama simultaneously for one

we dont know what happened. ergo its a hype not a feat. madara had no kill intent, kurama was taken contorl of by hashirama, not beaten. mito sealed kurama and sealed is the only thing that would be classified as defeating a bijuu. we dont know EMS madaras full capabilities and what hes using as an edo cant qualify since hes immortal and has unlimited stamina.

Which Sasuke and Itachi combined already can't compare

your fanboying for ems madara heavily if you think itachi and sasuke will lose to him. one totsuka and kurama's out. one koto amatsukami and madara's out.

saying "Hashirama's skills were so great people thought of them as myths just like the rikudou sage", all bullshit because Hashirama's version of the techniques is leagues weaker than the versions Madara used, and he has nowhere near enough chakra to use more than a few of them

i didnt say that. it is leagues weaker because madaras immortal and can use as much as he wants without fear of dying of exhaustion. hashirama is much more careful and nowhere near as much freedom to toy around and spam techniques. and just because people think hes a myth doesnt make him the second strongest after the sage like you think. the ones who are strongest besides sage are the ones with a portion of that god's powers. ie nagato, tobi, naruto. all three of which have feats to support their godliness.

commentating over it during that time he used those techniques

when 5 kage arrived muu was punched away by raikage and chased away from the fight. kabuto cannot know what madara can really do as he's busy either running or fighting.

We did get a flashback, Hashirama was fighting Kurama

and you act like it was a full flashback where we see in detail exactly what happened

He won't know he's in a genjutsu? Makes sense, because when Sasuke, Kakashi, Sakura started popping out of Naruto's body parts.

how is hashirama to know hes in a genjutsu when things not out of the ordinary are happening like itachi bursting into crows and hashirama still using regular techs?

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and how is itachi to use the exact same force behind the finger genjutsu at 30% as he would at full power? even his genjutsus against sasuke were not 100% force due to a sickness.

Wut? No he didn't dude tanked dozens of them

tank = being crippled for the rest of his life stuck with burned useless legs = joki logic

Proving why Bringer of Darkness is so effective, thanks

no it doesnt. sound genjutsu =/= darkness. kabuto pointed out to his surprise sound waves penetrate susano.

which even doujutsu can't see through

and how in the hell do you know it cant?

I definitely didn't mean that Sakura's monster punches that punch gigantic craters in the ground were superior to Hidan's or anything.

so shes a little stronger. and?

told Kurama after battle he was sealing him?

he didnt seal him. he said he cant let kurama roam around free any longer which is the moment he gained control over him. after the battle mito used uzumaki sealing prowess to trap him in herself

he was considered have "beat EMS Madara and Kurama

no he wasnt. he was considered to have gained control over the kyuubi, the only one besides madara who could control a bijuu at the time period, and used him to defeat madara.
"first hokage defeating madara is something known to all"
not
"first hokage defeating kyuubi is something known to all"
but it is known to all when minato saved his village from kyuubi by sealing it in naruto and that is considered a victory for minato.

"Sealed Kurama seconds into the fight

maybe not but he can seal kurama seconds after kurama enters the fight. madara wouldnt necessarily start out with him there. hes too prideful

"Oh yeah Madara can u hang on 1 sec, lemmi just make Mito the jinchuriki and seal ur fox

,
the way kushina said it, it was like "hashirama is about to die, so mito drags it into herself with chakra chains and a sealing technique". what madara was doign was controlling the damn thing so he wasnt just waiting around. he was probably trying to stop mito and was in turn stopped by hashirama so mito would have time. in other words it was 2 vs 2.

"Oh yeah Madara can u hang on 1 sec, lemmi just make Mito the jinchuriki and seal ur fox,

he said one sentence and a very short one at that. minato and kushina had an entire 2 chapters just talking to one another while kyubi sat there kindly letting them

Humans=the strongest bijuu? Nice logic

tobi put kyuubi in genjutsu with as much ease as he did to konan

EMS Sasuke didn't even try to do antyhing against Hachibi, he just used Amaterasu

i wasnt aware EMS sasuke even fought the hachibi. my my he must have stopped between kabuto and getting out of the cave by jumping into the naruto vs tobi fight and kicking bees ass then running away again

Well sir, considering what Sasuke has shown and the fact nothing he has ever done can compare to one of the most hyped characters that we've seen fight on panel

EMS madara has barely done anything but rely on rinnegan and mokuton and a single MS technique

you really think EMS Sasuke will beat Madara after what we've seen him pull off against the kages?

yes. what exactly has he pulled off besides camp in susano and spam rinnegan and mokutons at them? which arent EMS techniques.

you're speculating that EMS Sasuke should be on the level of Madara because he has EMS

no i said sasuke is above madara's level because we've seen him do much greater things with his mangekeyo. thats reason enough to beleive sasukes superior.

baseless

how is it baseless? point me to where madara oneshotted a kage bodyguard with genjutsu, set a giant bijuu on fire, took a kage's arm, defeated a hokage, and fought a sage using his EMS only.

So while Itachi and/or Sasuke are trapped in darkness, Hashirama covers them in trees

so while itachi and sasuke cancel the darkness by layering a stronger genjutsu on top of it

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hashirama is covered in a shower of chidori spear, amaterasu, and totsuka. also itachi's perfectly accurate kunais which stopped even rinnegans blind spots.

How is Kabuto invincible?

exactly

Yata Mirro is such a no-limits fallacy, that's not "hype" it's just an outright hyperbole

then so is hashirama being a myth like the sage

Sakumo was hyped to be on the level of the sannin, so why not use hype? Dude has never showed any on-panel battle time whatsoever, ****ing Zaku from the chunin exams punches him and he dies according to you

well we wouldnt put sakumo against zaku in the first place because he's shown us jackshit and we wouldnt know if he could oneshot him or not.

of any of Itachi, or Sasuke's jutsu burning down a mokuton forest or destroying it in any way?

how cna i show you that if theyve never fought mokuton before?

If you can't, then they have no way to destroy it because we haven't seen any of Sasuke or Itachi's attacks destroying a mokuton forest or any forest at all. hurr

that makes no sense and not what im saying at all. totsuka has never sealed up a jounin. but we know it can because it sealed up nagato with ease. sasukes never burnt mokuton. but trees burn and amaterasu can never be put out or stopped unless the user wants it to. sauske has enton which he can use to spread it across a battlefield. and you say it burns slowly. i say there was absolutely nothing left of the zetsus. so mokuton does burn fast

I guess it's totally taboo for me to use any kind of hype or speculation from things we can infer obviously happened. Meanwhile you go off claiming ridiculous stuff that's 100% speculation and for all we know just your fanfiction

its taboo for you to say hashirama defeated kurama when thats not even what defeated means and we dont know what happened. maybe madara was weakened. we dont know. thats why i want to stay away from VOTE altogether but you keep bringing it up in absolute desperation to prove he can defeat all uchihas combined just because characters who werent there claim he defeated EMS madara.

dude was held back

no he wasnt. his paws are clearly moving and his momentum hasnt stopped as theres nothing in front of him to stop him. if he was like this i'd understand

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You forgot the whole part about the second one smashing into the first which in turn smashed into Onoki's head

no i didnt. i said the first one took the force of the second one and split it in half.

That's cool, Kurama doesn't miraculously disappear

that has nothign to do with what i said

Hashirama survived long enough against it.

you dont know how long.

I have no idea what you can classify as "hype"

hype is when a character who is a secondary source relays what he's heard from others and sometimes exagerrates or fanboys. for example iruka saying hiruzens the strongest of all. hes a secondary source, relaying what others have said "the third WAS SAID TO BE the strongest of all", and is exagerrating ("iruka dont use past tense in front of the kids"). that is an example of the hype im talking about.
and madara is in no position to claim hashiramas oh so strong when hes only fought him. no other hokage and no other strong shinobi after hashiramas time.

seemed to work when Tsunade healed Onoki and Gaara.

it didnt. they have still got injuries and dirt, and they are still exhausted.

No, because Hashirama's mokuton was enough to hold back Kurama, Gaara's sand is nowhere near that strong

yes it is. he held down third raikage and the other kages at the same time, and tanked a C3 village buster nuke. your still yet to prove why suppressing bijuu jutsu is suposed to be effective vs humans.

Kurama swipes a paw, Gaara's ****ed

kurama swipes a paw and gaara drops a pyramid on his face

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No, I'm saying weak katon which have never been used to that scale will not make a gigantic chakra forest burn.

what gigantic forest? hashirama cant make that instantly.

Or rather even a regular forest.

if in real life a forest can be burnt down then a chakra fuelled giant fireball will

So Madara, whose Katon is obviously the greatest Katon in the series is who you use for evidence?

greatest katon in the series is sasukes enton amaterasu

That's just more support for Hashirama being more powerful, he dealt with Katon like those! Itachi's and Sasuke's are leagues leagues leagues weaker than that katon

amaterasu is leagues leagues leagues stronger than that katon

Look at every single katon ever performed by Itachi or Sasuke

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It's not even as thick as Orochimaru's chest

and still sliced through giant hydra heads like it was nothing

Besides at best Totsuka will be able to slash and reach 3% of the forest from size comparison.

you mean 100%.

maybe by clapping his hands and making mokuton

itachi looks at him and his hands burn

mokuton bunshin

sasuke looks at it

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them being covered in wood/flower world,

hashiramas dead before ever making one that big. why would itachi and sasuke stand there while trees are coming out from the ground?

him totally realizing that he's in a genjutsu by applying common sense

so he can magically realise hes in a genjutsu when nothing would be abel to suggest that? only other sharingans see through itachis genjutsus. remember when itachi ripped sasukes eye out? that isnt exactly genjutsu'ish as the readers most likely thought that was all real.

even the kages were trying to avoid it but still breathed it,

they successfuly avoided it but madaras susano knocked them down into it. meaning as long as your in the air your safe. guess waht sasuke has? a ****ing hawk summon.

although the part I love most is how you've acted like Itachi and Sasuke instantly know how to counter flower world throughout this whole thing

of course they can. sharingan sees even nanobombs so theyd see pollen and hashirama's chakra flowing through the flowers commanding the flowers to release the pollen.

They won't even notice the pollen

again your forgetting what a sharingan can do. theres no way they wont notice a giant cloud of chakra infused poison gas. and the same goes for hashirama. no way will he know hes not supposed to tank the giant ethereal sword coming at his face, nor will he know lightning element is his worst nightmare especially since we dont know the starting distance of this battle so ill just go ahead and say its 20m or so. in which case replace the tentacle with hashirama's upper body

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good game.

Might as well just make any Genin vs Hashirama thread, and most genin would win because Hashirama is weak as crap without considering his status

no he isnt. your using sarcasm and exagerration which breaks your argument down.
joki logic = capturing hiruzen, getting him in genjutsu, fighting him off in taijutsu, getting kurama's ankle in a twist, and everything a lesser clone of him has done (yamato) is all genin level. at the very least know hashirama is at least as powerful as yamato before trying to exaggerrate and say his feats are genin level.

He definitely doesn't know about flower world and it was never hinted, implied, etc anywhere, guy's gonna breathe it and he's gonna die.

guys gonna see it coming with sharingan. even a novice sasuke can see chakra colours and realise earth element falls to his lightning, and even see C4 nanobombs. once he did it was easy to avoid. sharingan sees through all ninjutsu and genjutsu, and spots what most couldnt. are you saying sasuke is so idiotic that he will forget that he can make chidori spears and it will go right through any initial mokuton shield hashirama can make in the nanosecond that sasuke creates a chidori spear and tries to slice him? considering mokuton is suiton + doton? and trees = plants and are therefore doton? no this happens to hashirama's body if we are talking about what happens when both sides want each other dead as soon as possible

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It was never ever implied ever that he surpassed him

madara has attained every single one of nagato's abilities, in addition to every single EMS ability he had which made him so terrifying in power that onoki and muu were helpless and people shat their pants at mentions of his name, in addition to being fused with hashirama's face and at least as much mokuton power as hashirama had in the old days? so hashirama > nagato, madara, hashirama fused? is that what your telling me?

Kabuto created the ET

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sorry no he didnt

considers Hashirama stronger still

no he doesnt. the moment he fused rinnegan madara with hashirama he created a power closer to that of the god rikudo than anything else

If anything Hashirama's versions of the mokuton technique crap on Madara's versions.

and yet nothing has ever been said about madaras mokutons lacking in power. tsunade said its the same technique. and kabuto never said "oh yeah i will make this fairy tale a reality..by giving an inferior version of the fairy tale to an inferior being for him to use..." that makes no sense. kabuto said he wants to make reality, what everyone thought was so great about hashirama. and says this experiments superior to what oro did with danzo.

Right, how is the kusanagi relevant to him having to break the genjutsu?

its proof he wasnt dodging or preventing attacks because he knew he was doomed anyway

Why would you risk it if you could just break the genjutsu instead,

ask hiruzen. why risk dying before he can pull out oros soul if he can just dodge the sword?

Sure, good thing there's nothing under him and Susano'o doesn't protect against air.

then why were danzos wind style techs not going right through it and hitting sasuke directly?

Itachi, who has absolutely no knowledge of flower world whatsoever, will breathe the pollen because he has no idea that it's there.

hashirama who has absolutly no knowledge of finger genjutsu will look at itachis finger because he has no idea it will catch him in genjutsu long enough for sasuke to slice his brain in half

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you act as if he can make an entire forest and the bros will stand there and let it happen.

Yeah, genjutsu lets you "see through it". Doesn't help you break it

no it helps you reverse it

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He already knew about Hashi's genjutsu problem was getting out.

and doujutsus have little problem getting out

Kurenai dodged Itachi's kick, should have never happened due to pre-cog since clapping hands together somehow is like a snail despite Itachi never ever ever showing that speed.

kurenai guarded against it, not dodged it

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itachi wasnt even trying in the least. and kakashi with his own precog could not keep up

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Yeah, because "killing Pain summons" =burning down a giant forest.

didnt say that. but considering said forest starts out as roots and small trees, it is not defending against chidori spear and amaterasu projectiles which have been proven to burn right through liviing hashirama clones till there was nothing left

Since Hashirama has no way to seal ET that we know of then obviously not

then why did you say hashirama is the strongest shinobi besides the sage?

Since Hashirama has no way to seal ET that we know of then obviously not

no it isnt.

Ok, none of that stops Susano'o from having an opening underneath it so..

ok no susano then. not like uchihas need it. besides for use of susano arrow and totsuka

Naruto shtis on Itachi

wouldnt be so sure of that nowadays

Hmm let's see here, unique Mangekyous? Sasuke has--Amaterasu, Susnao'o. Itachi has, Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi, Susano'o. Madara has Susano'o, all these techniques sound very similar, but you claim they're all unique. Strange.

shisui has koto amatsukami. sasuke has enton. itachi has tsukiyomi and totsuka/yata and now izanami. kakashi has kamui. all MS have different powers. susano is the one thing thats constant.

althouigh he did beat him and Kurama together despite the fact you have to deny it with every fiber of your being to prevent team 2 from losing

because he didnt. suppressing and controlling kurama isnt defeating him. or madara has already defeated kurama prior to the fight by getting him in genjutsu in the first place.

So considering Madara is currently soloing the 5 kages, sure says a lot on where Hashirama's position is.

and you keep believing with every fibre that hashirama fought the exact same madara thats fighting the kages

How in the hell are either of the Uchiha going to get close enough when they are dealing with kage level clones and Mokuton from all around.

how is hashirama supposed to make a clone and enough mokuton to defend against two uchihas who are able to almost instantly cast black flames on him by blinking and have powerful enough spiritual blades and lightning spears to cut through branches with ease? hashirama cannot make a forest in between the single second that itachi takes to cast some flames on his face. itachis seals were so fast kakashis sharingan precog could not keep up. and you expect a non doujutsu user like hashirama can?

And susanoo arrow does not even matter Danzo with an incomplete version of WS was able to deflect it no problem.

actually for him it was a last resort because the arrow was faster than he could make seals for. and hed already been shot by it twice before but izanagi made him not die

And remember how it took maybe 4 panels to grow the entire flower world?

for immortal unlimited chakra rinnegan madara/hashirama fusion

Its faster and even if they could see the pollen they would not know what it is or how to counter it.

same goes for uchiha finger genjutsu, totsuka blade, yata, and kirin. hashirama doesnt know what they are and cannot defend against it in time if he thinks hes making flower world but really hes in a finger genjutsu and his heads already been severed from his body by chidori spear.

Any attack they get on him can be healed.

hashirama cant heal a sliced brain when said brain cant talk to the nerves and command them to repair themselves. decapitation is the ultimate counter to this kind of regen

Hashirama not only has range but he also has a huge power gap that decimates the Uchiha

are you saying the uchihas have no range? when sasukes arsenal is mostly powerful oneshot ranged attacks and itachis arsenal is powerful oneshot genjutsu/hax?

It took history's most powerful Uchiha to have to get the most powerful tailed beast just to fight Hashirama and he still lost

minato: if hes really madara, he cant summon kyuubi for more than a short time.
kushina: hashirama gained control over the nine tails and to better aid him mito sealed it in herself
also tobi explained madara didnt want to win just get hashiramas powers

 

[Joki]

good for him. except that doesnt lend well to the argument it doesnt cause pain

That's cool. And now that I noticed, you take out a lot of the points in my posts while you're quoting and simply ignore them. Particularly the key parts that you have absolutely no counter to, now that I compare my posts with yours. Since the posts were so big I guess you think you can get away with it since I'll never notice...yeahhhhhhhhh

yes he does as it can be cast on his whole body with enton. hashirama is not made of wood ok?

Nope just Yamato sprouting wood from his body, we totally can't assume Hashirama who gave Yamato those techniques would actually know those techniques. Like, we can't assume that Gai knew the gates in Part 1 since he never used them, he only taught them to Lee.

what forest? sasuke has been shown to use amateraus and susano on mokutn users IMMEDIATELY. hashirama did not use mokuton right off the bat when fighting against hiruzen as a bloodlusted puppet. nor did madara immediately use his super mokuton on naruto and gaara

Scans of them using instantly when it contradicts every panel when Mokuton sprouted much faster than any time they were used.

yes it is. the size of the flames created vs bee were alot. and your telling me a small forest can counter it? while hashiramas being attacked from every direction? sasuke and itachi have been shown to go to MS right off the bat even against fodders for a quick stomp victory. especially itachi going to genjutsu off the bat.

Wtf? Gyuki is the size of a boss summon. Boss Summons/bijuu look like a dot in comparison with the meteor, are you even serious at this point? That Amaterasu will do literally nothing to the forest even if it could burn for shit despite not being able to burn through Samurai Armor, Karin's clothes, Nagato's clothes or Zetsu through multiple panels/sentences of talking.

wood burns you know. if he tries putting mokuton on the flames it will only burn more. thats like dousing a bonfire in oil. what do you thinks gonna happen when a wood fire fights someone with inextinguishable fire which can be spread and manipulated by its greatest user ever born (sasuke)?

Why do you think he has to put it out? He puts it on Sasuke and Itachi. They either put it out or kill themselves with the amaterasu.

it didnt cover it instantly. but you think hashirama can make giant forests INSTANTLY

I never ever implied they could use it instantly, just faster than it takes for the long preparation(although it might seem fast to you, for any basic shinobi it takes quite awhile as long as they see the sharingan eye it's over).

IT DOESNT SLOWLY BURN. zetsu clones were incinerated in two panels

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Hey guess what?

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A few pages later, the Zetsu clones you claimed to be "incinerated in two panels" were still burning and you could still see their body parts. Burns slow as shit especially since Zetsu are born from Hashirama's cells, speak of the bijuu chakra? Mokuton is much more durable than Zetsu clones, fact. Thanks for killing your argument again.

the higher the level of the ninja the faster it burns through anything it hits. itachi took out nagatos animal paths in one shot each

No they didn't, yeah nice work and when Nagato was hit by it it didn't even burn through his clothes all the way.

ive seen fodders make more impressive earth style walls in the war arc. that wall was only strong enough to defend against tobirama's tiny water dragon bullet

Yeah, continue comparing Part 2 to Part 1, ok that's cool 50+ chunin level + ninja can make a wall better than Hiruzen's powerscaled to Part 1 level. Hashirama powerscaled to Part 1 still effortlessly breaks through that too
>tiny water dragon bullet
>Tobirama
>mfw

nd yeah, Kabuto stated multiple times the only one who could beat Edo Madara at this point was Hashirama
no he didnt. not even once did he even remotely say anything like that.
"hashirama who was stronger than madara"
"my edo tensei is invincble"
"im invincible"
"theres no shinobi on hashirama's level anymore. everyone says that"
"his power was like a fairy tale"

Ok, you also forgot "Hashirama is the only one to this point who can beat this ET"

yeah nothing about hashirama being > edo madara

Sure, also forgetting about everything Madara said but I guess you ignored those for a reason

madara is the trump card while kabuto didnt know what he could actually do with it. he was shocked and pleased with the results. and besides he made it a fusion of hashirama and madara because hes trying to get closer to the sage of six paths which is senju + uchiha so he chose strongest senju and strongest dead uchiha to merge.

Right.

they are exhausted, onokis jinton was a last resort, and tsunade cant smash a forest by herself. im not surprised 5 kage cant smash a few trees as they were neither near madara, nor do they have somethign as strong as susano.
onoki destroyed it in one shot

Lol no he didn't

the first time hashirama used it on madara, neither did madara. but madara is stated to have survived every single encounter

More speculation. Bullshit, assuming that Madara survived or Hashirama even used it against him, like you said "oh you know kishi" for all you know Hashirama said "Good luck with this technique, if you breathe this pollen you die". Itachi and Sasuke won't know shit.

yes it will. hashirama cant make giant forests in 1 second.

Faster than Itachi or Sasuke can do shit.

for the majority of the fight hes only used two techs, wood and susano. what does he want to show off? im waiting for it

Dunno, things that he thinks are superior to flower world. Like creating 25 mokuton clones and having them all use Susano'o, AKA: "If you have problems with flower world you're ****ed if you think you can beat me". You only don't understand this because you don't want to be proven wrong, but it's all good

sharingan will see the particles in the air and then they blow it away with a giant merged fireball. cmon if sasuke can see nanobombs do you think he will miss pollen?

Yes I do actually, sinc when has pollen from flower world=chakra? C4 nanobombs are chakra filled clay bombs that detonate that Deidara made they have chakra, fact. Sharingan sees chakra.

so does mokuton. and the pressure wasnt actually amaterasu. it was koto amatsukami

lol

no he wont look away as as soon as he sees it, hes in genjutsu.

That's cool, Kakashi told Asuma and Kurenai to close their eyes, he kept his eye open and was talking, took a few seconds before he was even caught. Plenty of time for Hashirama to look away or, you know, create a giant forest to cover them in.

and all itachi has to do is open his eyes and look at hashirama.

See previous

kabuto? kabutos only strongest with his full edo army

Nope, Hashirama

i didnt say that. hashirama does have feats like capturing hiruzen twice

Haha, Hiruzen never showed any decent strength feats, I mean since Yamato easily held back KN4 and Hashirama held back Kurama, we can't use those shitty feats sinc they didn't happen in Part 1. Hiruzen being the god of shinobi also means shit. Sakura makes craters by punching the ground, you think that part 1 Hashirama's wood can hold her back? Hell no

paper bombs blew prime nagatos legs up. and kunais stopped rinnegan's vision. in itachi and hanzo's hands suddenly basic ninja techs become deadly

Yeah, paper bombs also usually blow people's body parts including legs right off

we dont know what happened. ergo its a hype not a feat.

This is not true, what do you think hype is, "on panel scan of something happening"? Feat means just what it means, an accomplishment. If somethig happened it's a feat, not hype. You might think it's "hype" because we didnt' see it on panel but it's bullshit. Perhaps you mean "We can only use onpanel scans, things we didn't see on-panel don't count" which si also bullshit.

madara had no kill intent,

Lol wut prove it

kurama was taken contorl of by hashirama, not beaten. mito sealed kurama

Prove it

and sealed is the only thing that would be classified as defeating a bijuu.

Yep every Akatsuki member ever have sealing techniques and sealed the bijuu they fought

we dont know EMS madaras full capabilities and what hes using as an edo cant qualify since hes immortal and has unlimited stamina.

He seems pretty in-tune with all his techniques. I love how you're completely ignoring and act like they just use 1 jutsu and too exhausted to do aynthing else. Prove it.

your fanboying for ems madara heavily if you think itachi and sasuke will lose to him. one totsuka and kurama's out. one koto amatsukami and madara's out.

The ****? Itachi or Sasuke doesn't have Kotoamatsukami. Totsuka won't do shit to Kurama, assuming Itachi and Sasuke can do anything about 5 mountain dwarfing bijuu dama.

i didnt say that. it is leagues weaker because madaras immortal and can use as much as he wants without fear of dying of exhaustion. hashirama is much more careful and nowhere near as much freedom to toy around and spam techniques. and just because people think hes a myth doesnt make him the second strongest after the sage like you think. the ones who are strongest besides sage are the ones with a portion of that god's powers. ie nagato, tobi, naruto. all three of which have feats to support their godliness.

Again, prove it. and yes it does when Kabuto, the smartest Naruto character who's gathered knowledge and data on basically every shinobi ever says so and when Madara himself who was the one who fought him said so.

when 5 kage arrived muu was punched away by raikage and chased away from the fight. kabuto cannot know what madara can really do as he's busy either running or fighting.

Kabuto was narrating over Madara vs Kages fight, are you serious?

and you act like it was a full flashback where we see in detail exactly what happened

Because it was. Hashirama and Madara+Kurama were fighting, Hashirama used a huge forest of mokuton and was holding him back. After beating them he sealed Kurama. Very simple concept if you're not trying to stop Hashirama from beating your favorite characters in every way possible/

how is hashirama to know hes in a genjutsu when things not out of the ordinary are happening like itachi bursting into crows and hashirama still using regular techs?

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Yeah, I guess you think every technique Itachi uses is like his own personal Tsukuyomi now. Implying he's going to use finger genjutsu now, when he doesn't have knowledge to do anything. At first it's "hurr amaterasu" but when that's countered" hurr Tsukuyomi" then "hurr finger genjutsu", yeah, Itachi's never shown the capability to instantly use all of these at once. Or rather, never any of them at the beginning of a fight ever. I absolutely love the BS on Itachi's side--- If he doesn't use Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi at the beginning of the fight he loses...so despite in every single battle he's ever been in when he hasn't used them, in this fight he miraculously will because it's the only way he avoids losing? Unfortunately, Itachi doesn't know about the things we know,. You can't narrate how you want the fight to go because you want Itachi to win. He's not doing that shit unless you can post me scans where it's actually in character for him to use any of that the second a fight starts

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and how is itachi to use the exact same force behind the finger genjutsu at 30% as he would at full power? even his genjutsus against sasuke were not 100% force due to a sickness.

Prove it. And prove that using it at 100% will be any different, a jutsu is a jutsu if you have enough chakra it's absolutely no different from using it if you have more chakra. Raikiri doesn't get weaker as Kakashi's chakra gets lower if he has enough chakra to use 1 Raikiri it's the same as if he's at 100%. This has been shown with every technique, at this point you're mostly talking out of your ass

tank = being crippled for the rest of his life stuck with burned useless legs = joki logic

Tank = take attacks without any major injuries = real definition
Dude didn't get his legs blown off, in anyone's book that's considered "tanking" it when everyone else who gets hit by explosive tags' legs get blown off.

no it doesnt. sound genjutsu =/= darkness. kabuto pointed out to his surprise sound waves penetrate susano.

Cool, thanks for ignoring most about having no knowledge about flower world though because air definitely penetrates it too.

and how in the hell do you know it cant?

Prove it can. You're the one claiming that genjutsu can see through it, not me--burden of proof is on the one who makes the claim

so shes a little stronger. and?

Yeah, Shika couldn't hold back Tayuya or Hidan's brute strength. You expect him to hold back Sakura's? Bullshit, he starts sweating 2 seconds in, she effortlessly breaks out and punches his head in.

he didnt seal him. he said he cant let kurama roam around free any longer which is the moment he gained control over him. after the battle mito used uzumaki sealing prowess to trap him in herself

Lol

no he wasnt. he was considered to have gained control over the kyuubi, the only one besides madara who could control a bijuu at the time period, and used him to defeat madara.

Prove it

"first hokage defeating madara is something known to all"
not
"first hokage defeating kyuubi is something known to all"

I thought you said it wasn't even common knowledge, only when it's used to help your argument it's common knowledge? Ok, Kishi shows a panel of Madara and Hashirama all bloody and Kurama and a forest and him being held back mid-fight. I guesssss he just totally showed tha tto not imply or prove anything, that's obviously the only second in the fight where Kurama was on the field. Hashirama just sealed him the next second. You making sense now son

but it is known to all when minato saved his village from kyuubi by sealing it in naruto and that is considered a victory for minato.

Yeah, don't you think it's because Kurama was actually in the village and everyone saw it?

maybe not but he can seal kurama seconds after kurama enters the fight. madara wouldnt necessarily start out with him there. hes too prideful

See 2 previous, also lol

,
the way kushina said it, it was like "hashirama is about to die, so mito drags it into herself with chakra chains and a sealing technique"

Mito entered the fight during mid fight? Yeahhhhhhh I call BS, but you can't prove it so it's useless

. what madara was doign was controlling the damn thing so he wasnt just waiting around.

Righ tso you claim at first he uses contract seal then controls it, so when Kurama is being sealed now I guess Madara is somehow still controlling him.

he was probably trying to stop mito and was in turn stopped by hashirama so mito would have time. in other words it was 2 vs 2.

This was never ever implied, this is the closest thign to an outright fanfiction I've ever read in any debate ever. Please sir, point out where it was ever implied/said/shown where Mito entered the fight and had a 2v2 battle with Madara etc. And you said that I was speculating.

he said one sentence and a very short one at that. minato and kushina had an entire 2 chapters just talking to one another while kyubi sat there kindly letting them

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HEY! Maybe that's a thought, maybe Hashirama was holding him back with his Mokuton in order to do the same. Thanks for the support for my arguments man, thanks bro.

tobi put kyuubi in genjutsu with as much ease as he did to konan

Hmm, maybe because Tobi/Madara have skileld genjutsu able to put the bijuu in genjutsu with ease. Itachi and Sasuke have never showed that ability, again you're talking out of your ass. Genjutsuing any human means jack when comparing to a bijuu. I guess when Kurama fought the village and Minato took it from Tobi's control he should have just went and got any basic Uchiha to control him. Or, or! Better yet, went and got Itachi! Oh wait.

i wasnt aware EMS sasuke even fought the hachibi. my my he must have stopped between kabuto and getting out of the cave by jumping into the naruto vs tobi fight and kicking bees ass then running away again

Yeah, so far what has EMS done? Not much. And when has EMS shown its level up in genjutsu thus far? Oh yeah, it hasn't. Stop speculating/using hype. Remember, you told me not to do that?

EMS madara has barely done anything but rely on rinnegan and mokuton and a single MS technique

Yep, relied on Mokuton, shows how useful it is vs 5 kages. Itachi and Sasuke are destroyed easily.

yes. what exactly has he pulled off besides camp in susano and spam rinnegan and mokutons at them? which arent EMS techniques.

See, he doesn't even need EMS, all he needs is Hashirama's trusty Mokuton to beat all 5 kages.

no i said sasuke is above madara's level because we've seen him do much greater things with his mangekeyo. thats reason enough to beleive sasukes superior.

Wtf, no it isn't? So out of 2 techniques just because Sasuke's used them more he's superior to Madara? Yeah, Naruto's rasengan from part 1 did more damage than Jiraiya's ever did, I guess that makes Naruto superior to Jiraiya because 1 of his techniques did greater things. -more USSJ logics

how is it baseless? point me to where madara oneshotted a kage bodyguard with genjutsu, set a giant bijuu on fire, took a kage's arm, defeated a hokage, and fought a sage using his EMS only.

It's baseless because none of that will do anything to Madara, and because you're hyping EMS to the max acting like it's godly when we haven't seen shit from his EMS. So prove Sasuke's EMS increases its genjutsu level despite him never using genjutsu on the EMS? Nice try

so while itachi and sasuke cancel the darkness by layering a stronger genjutsu on top of it

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hashirama is covered in a shower of chidori spear, amaterasu, and totsuka. also itachi's perfectly accurate kunais which stopped even rinnegans blind spots.

That scratches the forest he made while they were busy breaking the genjutsu or using a stronger one, assuming they totally didn't miss the Flower World when they were caught. They get knocked out, Hashi is automatically broken out of genjutsu(assuming they can even catch him in one when they're trapped under a forest and assuming he doesn't just easily break himself out) and he kills them. GG

exactly

then so is hashirama being a myth like the sage

Wtf? No it's not the two statements aren't even related. Yata Mirror was just hyped to be really really strong, that's all it meant. Which I agree, it's pretty strong(although Susano'o doesn't defend against underneath so it can't do shit vs Hashirama). You know what hyperbole means right? Exagerrated statements not meant to be taken literally IE "amaterasu is hot as the sun"

Hashirama's skills being so great that they were regarded as myth because no one believed a ninja could ever be that strong however, was a legit true thing Kabuto said, guy doesn't just randomly claim hyperbole or bullshit

well we wouldnt put sakumo against zaku in the first place because he's shown us jackshit and we wouldnt know if he could oneshot him or not.

Or because people think that with hype Sakumo is on the level of the sannin and logically we infer that he can easily beat characters like Zaku and people are honestly curious to how they think Sakumo compares to other characters.

how cna i show you that if theyve never fought mokuton before?

Sorry, you can show me scans of it burning down anything near the level of a mokuton forest, or rather a regular forest will suffice.

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,

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For a technique that easily burns down a mokuton forest it's sure having trouble burning through a few leaves on soem trees on a regular forest! I wonder why you haven't mentioned this link before...probably because it utterly kills your argument like everything else you've ignored thus far

that makes no sense and not what im saying at all. totsuka has never sealed up a jounin. but we know it can because it sealed up nagato with ease. sasukes never burnt mokuton. but trees burn and amaterasu can never be put out or stopped unless the user wants it to. sauske has enton which he can use to spread it across a battlefield. and you say it burns slowly. i say there was absolutely nothing left of the zetsus. so mokuton does burn fast

Yeah exactly. Anyway, see previous, Amaterasu isn't doing shit and katon aren't doing much better unless you can show scans, and unless you really think some basic katons are stronger than Ammy lol.

its taboo for you to say hashirama defeated kurama when thats not even what defeated means and we dont know what happened.

Implying you know what happened during that fight when you say it's not what defeated means. What's it mean then if not even you know what happened?

maybe madara was weakened. we dont know. thats why i want to stay away from VOTE altogether but you keep bringing it up in absolute desperation to prove he can defeat all uchihas combined just because characters who werent there claim he defeated EMS madara.

Don't need to, they have no knowledge of Flower World so it's fine

no he wasnt. his paws are clearly moving and his momentum hasnt stopped as theres nothing in front of him to stop him. if he was like this i'd understand

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Good thing he was still restrained and more of his wood was on the way. Thanks for posting that scan of Yamato though sinc anyone who isn't an idiot would agree that Hash9irama's mokuton is obviously stronger than Yamato's. Say...when has Itachi or Sasuke ever showed the physical strength to surpass KN4's who destroyed forests and created gigantic shockwaves by waving his hand?

no i didnt. i said the first one took the force of the second one and split it in half.

That's cool, still took the entire force of what was remaining smashed into his head after he was already weakened from fighting in an entire war inclduing but not limited to against Muu, 2nd Mizukage

that has nothign to do with what i said

Doesn't have anything to do with it? Okay, then stop with the bullshit about Kurama being sealed seconds into the fight.

you dont know how long.

Neither do you

hype is when a character who is a secondary source relays what he's heard from others and sometimes exagerrates or fanboys. for example iruka saying hiruzens the strongest of all. hes a secondary source, relaying what others have said "the third WAS SAID TO BE the strongest of all", and is exagerrating ("iruka dont use past tense in front of the kids"). that is an example of the hype im talking about.

Yeah I know, I'm mainly referring to how you also use "feats" as if "feat=on-panel scan"

and madara is in no position to claim hashiramas oh so strong when hes only fought him. no other hokage and no other strong shinobi after hashiramas time.

Kabuto knows his power and Madara knows his power. Madara and Hashirama were the strongest ninja of their time, and Kabuto claims no ninja from this time can compare to Hashirama. Also Madara fought Onoki before and etc, but point being "yeah you're wrong".

it didnt. they have still got injuries and dirt, and they are still exhausted.

Not after Tsunade healed them.

yes it is. he held down third raikage and the other kages at the same time, and tanked a C3 village buster nuke. your still yet to prove why suppressing bijuu jutsu is suposed to be effective vs humans.

Mokuton isn't "suppressing bijuu jutsu". He also grabbed them with their legs, Yamato's mokuton held back KN4 which also shits on what Gaara's restrained.

kurama swipes a paw and gaara drops a pyramid on his face

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As the paw proceeds to smash through the side of it rendering it useless and Gaara takes a mountain busting bijuu dama in the face

what gigantic forest? hashirama cant make that instantly.

Implying I meant instantly and that he can't use it before Itachi and Sasuke use their attacks

if in real life a forest can be burnt down then a chakra fuelled giant fireball will

That's cool, they've never been shown to do that and even Amaterasu couldn't, in case you didn't know forest slowly burn IRL as well, Hashirama spreads whatever's burning onto the Uchiha Bros. Also he can just make more and more, his forest is much bigger than any katon to be effective anyway. I think you're also forgetting that thanks to Gaara the 5 kages were able to fly up and out of the mokuton forest, unfortunately Sasuke/Itachi can't fly and will be forced to be under the entire forest.

greatest katon in the series is sasukes enton amaterasu

amaterasu is leagues leagues leagues stronger than that katon

Lol nice way of further killing your argument. See the link I posted where Amaterasu can't even burn through the leaves of trees fast, if you think it's going to do shit vs Hashirama you're insane.

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and still sliced through giant hydra heads like it was nothing

you mean 100%.

itachi looks at him and his hands burn

Cool, he scratches 3% of the mokuton and 3% is destroyed. Nope, I mean 3%, I guess you don't remember how the forest dwarfed the meteor and Susano'o is like a flea to the meteor.

His hands burn? Hashirama proceeds to launch mokuton from his hands to smash Itachi/Sasuke in the face while a huge forest wraps around them. Since they have no knowledge of flower world, they breathe and die.
sasuke looks at it

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hashiramas dead before ever making one that big. why would itachi and sasuke stand there while trees are coming out from the ground?

What are they going to do? It's too fast for him to do anything about and Hashirama is not immobile

so he can magically realise hes in a genjutsu when nothing would be abel to suggest that? only other sharingans see through itachis genjutsus. remember when itachi ripped sasukes eye out? that isnt exactly genjutsu'ish as the readers most likely thought that was all real.

Right, and what genjutsu does Itachi have that isn't completely obvious you're in a genjutsu and works faster on Hashirama than before Itachi is dead again?
they successfuly avoided it but madaras susano knocked them down into it. meaning as long as your in the air your safe. guess waht sasuke has? a ****ing hawk summon.

of course they can. sharingan sees even nanobombs so theyd see pollen and hashirama's chakra flowing through the flowers commanding the flowers to release the pollen.

That's cool, they see the chakra in the mokuton and flowers. The pollen doesn't have chakra so GG Uchiha Bros, actually, assuming they have knowledge da **** are they going to do? Amaterasu/Katons can't even burn through a small series of trees/forest, against a Mokuton/flower world it will scratch it at best. Again it's like leaving a dent in the empire state building, you act as if it'll be destroyed entirely. Unfortunately, assuming they do waste all their chakra trying to stop the flower world before they breathe it, Hashirama sprouts more flowers rendering their entire efforts useless. This is..all implying they know what to do instantly of course. I guess seeing chakra notifies you of all the effects of the jutsu. Incorrect, they breathe it, they die. Especialyl when the flower world was as big as the meteor.

Oh, and just to stop the bullshit about it not being fast enough or Katon/Amaterasu/Susano'o effortlessly destroying it all, let me re-post the links of it. Although, this part of the post will surelybe ignored yet again:

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Not fast enough? RIiiiiight.

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There you go. Thanks to Gaara they fly above it , unfortunately Sasuke and Itachi can't do shit and are forced to be buried under it. As you can see the size comparison. Susano'o is a dot in size if that. They breathe the pollen and die. They have no knowledge, now please stop talking out of your ass.

again your forgetting what a sharingan can do. theres no way they wont notice a giant cloud of chakra infused poison gas.

You act as if seeing chakra in the air (despite you giving no proof that the pollen itself has chakra rather than the flowers) will notify them of all the effects of the technique. So anyway, it's far too big for them to do anything about anyway so so wut?

and the same goes for hashirama. no way will he know hes not supposed to tank the giant ethereal sword coming at his face

Lol did you seriously just say that. "Hashirama doesn't know that he's not supposed to tank the giant ethereal sword coming at his face" Yeah, you make a lot of sense dude.

, nor will he know lightning element is his worst nightmare especially since we dont know the starting distance of this battle so ill just go ahead and say its 20m or so. in which case replace the tentacle with hashirama's upper body

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good game.

Flower World counters with ease.

no he isnt. your using sarcasm and exagerration which breaks your argument down.
joki logic = capturing hiruzen, getting him in genjutsu, fighting him off in taijutsu, getting kurama's ankle in a twist, and everything a lesser clone of him has done (yamato) is all genin level. at the very least know hashirama is at least as powerful as yamato before trying to exaggerrate and say his feats are genin level.

The kurama feat was in Part 2 but sure, as you said he wasn't even held back so his mokuton was just "there". So you agree he can do everything Yamato can do? Lol, ok then I guess everything I said above about Yamato is valid so don't give me crap about him not being able to do things with Mokuton that Yamato did IE capturing KN4. So anyway, despite those 2 things(since we're talking part 1 here), someone like Kiba should easily be able to use Sotoro to break through all of his mokuton with ease, he captured an old hiruzen in his old age nothing suggests he can hold back Sotoro with on-panel scans only. It rips through the mokuton and kills Hashirama, anything he showed vs Hiruzen is easily genin level.

guys gonna see it coming with sharingan. even a novice sasuke can see chakra colours and realise earth element falls to his lightning, and even see C4 nanobombs. once he did it was easy to avoid.

That's cool bro, he sees a giant forest coming and he gets buries under it. Just because he 'sees it coming' doesn't mean he can do shit about it. And since he doesn't have knowledge of the pollen either he breathes it and dies.

sharingan sees through all ninjutsu and genjutsu, and spots what most couldnt. are you saying sasuke is so idiotic that he will forget that he can make chidori spears and it will go right through any initial mokuton shield hashirama can make in the nanosecond that sasuke creates a chidori spear and tries to slice him? considering mokuton is suiton + doton? and trees = plants and are therefore doton? no this happens to hashirama's body if we are talking about what happens when both sides want each other dead as soon as possible

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Unfortunately he can't slice through the entire forest when the best he could do length wise with his Chidori Eisou was shown vs Deidara.

madara has attained every single one of nagato's abilities, in addition to every single EMS ability he had which made him so terrifying in power that onoki and muu were helpless and people shat their pants at mentions of his name, in addition to being fused with hashirama's face and at least as much mokuton power as hashirama had in the old days? so hashirama > nagato, madara, hashirama fused? is that what your telling me?

He's only ever showed Preta Path with his rinnegan so that's moot. And it was never again implied that Madara's Mokuton Techniques surpassed Hashirama's. Again, you admitted yourself that Yamato is a "lesser clone", Madara merely took his cells, his Mokuton is weaker than Hashirama's fact. I guess I'm not sure about Edo Madara vs Hashirama because he has a lot of upgrades but if there's anything that makes Madara 'surpass' Hashirama in a fight between them it's because he also has Hashirama's jutsu

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sorry no he didnt

Thanks for making another strawman argument and taking everything I said out of context. I meant the dude created the Madara ET not the jutsu, I'm not surprised that you would think I'm that retarded at this point lol

no he doesnt. the moment he fused rinnegan madara with hashirama he created a power closer to that of the god rikudo than anything else

Sure, except in terms of Mokuton techniques Madara still can't compare but it's alright

and yet nothing has ever been said about madaras mokutons lacking in power. tsunade said its the same technique.

Exactly! I said if anything Hashirama's would be superior, but this is you right here outright admitting that Hashirama's flower world=Madara's. Tsunade knew "This is the same technique as my grandfather's!", unfortunately she noticed and asid "This is the same technique" Not "This is my grandfather's technique but this one is stronger". She knew what it was, so again thanks for killing your argument. Also, it was thanks to Tsunade's knowledge they could avoid the flower world...except they still breathed it!

and kabuto never said "oh yeah i will make this fairy tale a reality..by giving an inferior version of the fairy tale to an inferior being for him to use..."

Well since he couldn't revive Hashirama in the first place..

And he has no choice, if he gives him Hashirama's cells it's the best he could do, you can agree with me that Madara is the greatest success so far in terms of "hashirama implanting".

that makes no sense. kabuto said he wants to make reality, what everyone thought was so great about hashirama. and says this experiments superior to what oro did with danzo.

Danzo couldn't even control the Mokuton fully so yeah exactly

its proof he wasnt dodging or preventing attacks because he knew he was doomed anyway

ask hiruzen. why risk dying before he can pull out oros soul if he can just dodge the sword?

So what? He still had to break the genjutsu in order to kill Orochimaru. Why risk it by trying to use smell and kage bunshin to find and kill the ET when you could just use your chakra control and break it? Simple, because he couldn't

then why were danzos wind style techs not going right through it and hitting sasuke directly?

Because that's a ninjutsu. You're really out of the loop at this point and outright wrong if you think that Susano'o users can't breathe or air doesn't get through their Susano'o. Besieds, Danzo's fuuton did break through Sasuke's Susano'o.

hashirama who has absolutly no knowledge of finger genjutsu will look at itachis finger because he has no idea it will catch him in genjutsu long enough for sasuke to slice his brain in half

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you act as if he can make an entire forest and the bros will stand there and let it happen.

Nice way to completely avoid the fact that Flower World destroys the bros yet again. And yeah, he can make it and they can't do shit even if they didn't 'stand there and let it happen'. See above when I posted the links of flower world which destroys your claims about it.

no it helps you reverse it

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and doujutsus have little problem getting out

kurenai guarded against it, not dodged it

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itachi wasnt even trying in the least. and kakashi with his own precog could not keep up

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Yeah, that's cool, unfortunately Kurenai just bit her lip to break it so it's not a strong genjutsu, see above about Hiruzen not even trying to break it and knowing 'the only way to break the genjutsu is to land a hit'. Nothing suggests the reversal will work on a tech of Hashi's caliber.

Oh yeah lol, probabl ywas thinking of the anime or something.

This is relevant to Hashirama's being able to clap his hands together before Itachi does anything at all how?

didnt say that. but considering said forest starts out as roots and small trees, it is not defending against chidori spear and amaterasu projectiles which have been proven to burn right through liviing hashirama clones till there was nothing left

I direct you to the scans of flower world yet again

then why did you say hashirama is the strongest shinobi besides the sage?

Because he is? He could use techniques that blow up planets with the wave of a hand and still lose to Edo Konohamaru if he had no sealing techniques.

no it isnt.

Yes it is. If you don't think it is then you obviously didn't see the scans again, so see above when I posted them. Or I'll post them for a third time so that you don't ignore it and act like it didn't happen.

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ok no susano then. not like uchihas need it. besides for use of susano arrow and totsuka

No susano'o? Then they get crushed by the forest or restrained by the mokuton since KN4 couldn't even break out of Yamato's and he can make huge shockwaves by waving his hand. Itachi and Sasuke little to no physical strength to break out of these techniques.

wouldnt be so sure of that nowadays

Really? Moutain Busting Bijuu Dama + farfarfar superior speed+Chou Odama Rasengan and Rasenshuriken Barrage times 100. an RM Clone by itself when his chakra was split in twelfths was keeping up with Itachi and soloing him lol

shisui has koto amatsukami. sasuke has enton. itachi has tsukiyomi and totsuka/yata and now izanami. kakashi has kamui. all MS have different powers. susano is the one thing thats constant.

And Amaterasu which is cool. But Kakashi and Shisui aren't involved in this fight so...yeah. Pretty much every technique involved Hashirama has knowledge of and if he knows anything about basic Uchiha(considering he fought a plethora of them)then the second he sees the sharingan eye(implying the battle starts with eye contact and flower world doesn't cover their shit when the fight starts) he just looks away, simple. Flower World does the rest.

The guy could take a nap and still win lol, although realistically that'd be a pretty entertaining battle if he did just take a nap after he used it

because he didnt. suppressing and controlling kurama isnt defeating him. or madara has already defeated kurama prior to the fight by getting him in genjutsu in the first place.

You have absolutely no way to prove any of this that you said but oh well, I guess it's not too relevant since all he needs is Flower World

and you keep believing with every fibre that hashirama fought the exact same madara thats fighting the kages

No, but it's confirmed fact that Hashirama's Mokuton techniques are as strong as Madara's(although we should be asking the reverse, if Madara's can even be compared to the level of hax that were Hashirama's).

how is hashirama supposed to make a clone and enough mokuton to defend against two uchihas who are able to almost instantly cast black flames on him by blinking and have powerful enough spiritual blades and lightning spears to cut through branches with ease? hashirama cannot make a forest in between the single second that itachi takes to cast some flames on his face. itachis seals were so fast kakashis sharingan precog could not keep up. and you expect a non doujutsu user like hashirama can?

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That's how. You forgot about how he has to blink down extremely hard and blood drips, plenty of time much much slower than Flower world sprouting and covering the meteor and the kages in 1 panel. Again, Itachi or Sasuke aren't doing shit.

Now anyway to conclude with this: I've been extremely lenient when it comes to you just "skipping over" or ignoring the parts of my posts in your response that you can't counter. But I'd really appreciate it by this point if you didn't just ignore the key parts in my post in which you can't reply to and kill your argument. That's extremely BS and next post I'll compare my post with yours to see exactly what you ignored.

Particularly the parts in which they have no knowledge or counter of Flower World, Amaterasu can't even burn through regular trees, etc. I'm pretty sure you get my point though but regardless.

 

[narutownsyouall]

The thing is, the people he's up against use their eyes as a primary source of power. Hell, if it was anyone but an Uchiha (TWO Uchihas), Hashirama would be good looking at their legs. But they can use Amaterasu without moving any part of their (Sasuke and Itachi) bodies. That is why you're analogy does not work.

There is no reason to look in their eyes? Tell me, how will he see Amaterasu coming? How will he see a Susanoo arrow coming? How will he see Kirin coming (looking at his legs)?

Sure, Hashirama's clones can yell out info to Hashirama each time, but an Amaterasu can already be activated by then. And there's no proof that he can make as many clones as Madara, so they shouldn't be issues to take out.



Exactly. If Tsukuyomi hits, its all over for Hashirama.



Again, if Hashirama isn't making eye contact, and if his clones can't rely info fast enough/are killed by Itachi or Sasuke, Hashirama won't see the arrows coming.



Then why isn't Hashirama also a venus fly trap monster thing? There is a possibility that he can do it though, but not necessarily better.

And hiding underground won't really save him. Amaterasu can kill White Zetsu, it can kill him.

A sword can pin Black Zetsu, it can pin him.



He was able to summon Manda, place him under Genjutsu, and teleport himself away in the few seconds before Deidara's (who was like 10 feet away) explosion overwhelmed him. Going by feats, Sasuke can summon a hawk and fly away before he falls asleep.

It took 4 panels to grow the world - That gives them more time to evade it.



Again, going by feats, Sasuke can summon a hawk and fly away fast enough. They'll be able to tell that its dangerous, though, and immediately think of a solution (summoning a hawk).





Kage level clones - That's an assumption. They can still die from a strong enough hit. And we don't know if Hashirama can make nearly as many clones as Madara. Katon, Raiton, and Susanoo (arrows) should be enough to take them out.

Mokuton all around - Blaze Release on Susanoo, and constantly moving should keep them safe. OR Sasuke can summon hawks to fly on, giving them distance, from where they can spam Amaterasu.

Weapon branches - What does this mean? They can be blocked by Susanoo, burned by fire, or avoided by hawks.

Hashirama's healing - He obviously can't heal everything, as he was bloody after his fight with Madara. You think he can heal a Susanoo Arrow that's pierced a vital organ (since he won't see it coming)? Or one (OR TWO) Amaterasus to the face?

Any one shots are slow - What?!? Amaterasu forms almost instantly. Only a V2 A was able to dodge on forming on top of him. And Kakashi was only able to Kamui a Susanoo Arrow. And Danzo, making eye contact, had to use wood to block one.



Range - His Mokuton sprouting everywhere can be avoided by flying (hawk), constantly moving, or any elemental attacks (Lightning cutting it in half, Katon burning, and Amaterasu completely burning).

Madara had Kurama stripped from him. It was pretty much EMS Madara vs Hashirama, seeing that Hashirama can subdue Kurama. Don't tell me you think EMS Madara > Healthy MS Itachi (Izanami, genius, spiritual weapons) AND EMS Sasuke (Blaze Release, pretty smart).

Two MS users instead of one multiplies the danger by more than just double.



Only time we've seen Hashirama's power was in Part 1, where his power wasn't even that great. Madara's Mokuton is probably on a way larger scale, because he's edo, has Uchiha chakra AND Senju chakra, AND he's enhanced by Kabuto.

If anything, Hashirama is outgunned in a 2 on 1.

1. Why would he look at there legs? You do not need to look down to avoid eye contact. Hashirama has fought Gen users and Knows how to avoid eye contact during a fight. And Hashirama has plenty of ways to protect himself. He could dodge it.

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It only burns what it focuses on. Unlike what you all seem to think.

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And here is sasuke dodging Amatarasu. And if they use amatarasu they can not use Tsyukiyomi at the same time. (notice how one eye closes) If they were to do it Hashirama could look him in the eyes and make a mokuton barrier. Another thing is that all he has to do is look at there face. Itachi's eye would bleed and sasuke would have a changed expression.

As for clones. Are you kidding me? if he can't make at least 10 clones then there is no point to them. He would not need 25 to distract the Uchiha bro's. And they dont need to yell. They communicate through roots in the ground.

And Mokuton clones are not the same as kage bushin clones they are not 1 hit KO.

Tsyukiyomi is going to be useless because how is Itachi going to use it when the whole time he is being attacked?

How in the hell is he not going to see the arrows? are you saying that He is going to look into Sasuke's eyes while he is staring at Susanoo? theres a giant monster between them. And again he can just deflect those and move there hit.

And Hashirama is not a white venus fly trap because he is not mokuton, he is just its creator. And his mokuton is 10x better than zetsu's.

The Manda thing is not helpful considering this.

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Two panels to summon.

Now we have this.

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First they realize that they have to flee upwards or they are crushed. When are they going to even recognize the pollen when they are both running.

Now as for the hawk.

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"in an instant"

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5 Kage level are dropped. Sasuke and Itachi are high Kage level but they could not withstand this.

Blaze release takes a lot of chakra and secondly. Amatarasu only burns what it focuses on. and it is not nearly as fast as you guys keep saying it is.

How are they going to Amatarasu him when they are so far away?
And a susanoo arrow would not kill him.

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Tsunade can do and so can Hashirama.

Hashirama can dodge or put up a block for amatarasu and heal from it by pushing the flames off him with mokuton. I already shoed you why the arrows would not work and he can easily change direction.

Katon can't do crap to his trees.

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Madara would have scorched them if not for the trees. And his Katon is much better. Amatarasu only burns the focused point. And is limited to that small area.

Madara has about 60% of the ability that Hahirama has. At best he has 75%.
Remember how Tsunade thought is impossible for him to recreate the flower world? Its because nobody has a complete form of Mokuton and his is the most advanced but not on Hashirama's level.

He would still win!

 

[TheSages456]

the people here make posts that are far too long. nobody needs to make posts that long to see that hashirama>the uchiha bros. hashirama took down the strongest uchiha in history that had kurama by his side. if this fight actually happened sasuke and itachi would be killed or forced to retreat.

genjutsu- moot point. hashirama avoided genjutsu all his life and he fought madara who also has tsukiyomi.

amaterasu/enton-hashirama sprouts trees or wood from his body to push amaterasu off his body, then he would heal himself.

susano- susano gets restrained by mokuton whether people like it or not. hashirama is stronger than the uchiha brothers and this is not even considering mokuton clones or the flower tree world. hashirama can use the flower tree world and if sasuke flies up using his hawk, hashirama can merge with his trees and leave a clone out. when sasuke and itachi on the hawk fly near a tree or branch, hashirama comes out and grows wood from his arm to hit them in the range of the flower tree world. hashirama can also make mokuton come up from under susano, pull the brothers out and make them inhale the pollen. hashirama is also a weapons master and could use weapons and swords with mokuton branches.

 

[Owarij]

wtf is with all the long ass posts -_- it's getting bothersome to read it all

And what do you mean "Hashirama fought many uchiha, he won't fall for finger genjutsu"

Is that the best you can come up with? Finger G is itachi's technique.. He made it, Has hashirama seen it before? no, has hashirama seen anything like it before? no, GTFO with that nonsense then..... Itachi has 2 genjutsu he uses that does not require eye contact... He can get hashirama in both.. and since this is a 2v1 fight, they can deliver killing blows in time...


Flower world as i said will be burnt down by dual amaterasu's, Moukoton will be cut , just like enma destroyed it...

Bringer of darkness? Reflected with heaven earth reversal

Sasuke can also prepare Kirin EASILY , seeing that they both would have used amaterasu on flower world, all he has to do is 1 silly katon, and that's more than enough to create storm clouds...

Constant susanno arrows from above with his hawk is another thing hashirama has to worry about..

and you dare tell me this fight won't last 5 mins? enough time for itachi to use iznaami?

sigh when will the overation end


the people here make posts that are far too long. nobody needs to make posts that long to see that hashirama>the uchiha bros. hashirama took down the strongest uchiha in history that had kurama by his side. if this fight actually happened sasuke and itachi would be killed or forced to retreat.

genjutsu- moot point. hashirama avoided genjutsu all his life and he fought madara who also has tsukiyomi.

amaterasu/enton-hashirama sprouts trees or wood from his body to push amaterasu off his body, then he would heal himself.

susano- susano gets restrained by mokuton whether people like it or not. hashirama is stronger than the uchiha brothers and this is not even considering mokuton clones or the flower tree world. hashirama can use the flower tree world and if sasuke flies up using his hawk, hashirama can merge with his trees and leave a clone out. when sasuke and itachi on the hawk fly near a tree or branch, hashirama comes out and grows wood from his arm to hit them in the range of the flower tree world. hashirama can also make mokuton come up from under susano, pull the brothers out and make them inhale the pollen. hashirama is also a weapons master and could use weapons and swords with mokuton branches.

Great, if only that's all they have

Genjutsu- Hashirama may have avoided ocular genjutsu all his life by looking away, but as i stated itachi has two non eye contact genjutsu that he can't avoid..

Susanno arrows- Big enough to create a giant hole in his stomach, and they are covered in amaterasu

Kirin- Yea, He isn't protecting against something that comes down in fractions of a nanosecond..

Izanami- I dare you to tell me this fight isn't lasting 5mins, when his fight with hiruzen lasted like 30, and hiruzen had almost nothing

Susanno isn't getting restrained by shit, Not only can his wood get burned with sasuke's amaterasu spam, but both susanno are able to easily cut down the moukouton, i've said this before...He cannot make anything get under susanno.. susanno covers there feet.. where have you ever seen hashirama , madara etc, do a feat of sending moukoton undergrround?

 

[narutownsyouall]

wtf is with all the long ass posts -_- it's getting bothersome to read it all

And what do you mean "Hashirama fought many uchiha, he won't fall for finger genjutsu"

Is that the best you can come up with? Finger G is itachi's technique.. He made it, Has hashirama seen it before? no, has hashirama seen anything like it before? no, GTFO with that nonsense then..... Itachi has 2 genjutsu he uses that does not require eye contact... He can get hashirama in both.. and since this is a 2v1 fight, they can deliver killing blows in time...


Flower world as i said will be burnt down by dual amaterasu's, Moukoton will be cut , just like enma destroyed it...

Bringer of darkness? Reflected with heaven earth reversal

Sasuke can also prepare Kirin EASILY , seeing that they both would have used amaterasu on flower world, all he has to do is 1 silly katon, and that's more than enough to create storm clouds...

Constant susanno arrows from above with his hawk is another thing hashirama has to worry about..

and you dare tell me this fight won't last 5 mins? enough time for itachi to use iznaami?

sigh when will the overation end

I left for a bit and the huge posts came (i barley read them)

He isn't going to look at his hands and What is Itachi going to do when he is being attacked by mokuton? He can't just randomly point and get him. Hashirama is not going to watch what they will do he will be on the offensive and will go straight for an attack. And Low level gen like that can be broken easy. Naruto broke it and he is terrible at gen.

Amatarsu only burns what it focuses on. It doesn't just burn anything nor does it spread.

And Itachi does not have enough chakra to spam Amatarasu like sasuke does.

Kirin can be blocked and avoided. First of all He can protect himself with trees and go underground. Or better yet he could just heal. Lightning can only kill if it causes cardiac arrest or severe burns. Hashirama can heal from both.

And again how are they going to escape from Flower world? Its pretty much over there you guys. Either they do not escape and they get crushed or they do and get knocked out.

And you think a hawk is going to support susanoo? And again, the arrows can have their projection changed with a tree. They wouldn't matter.

And how in the hell is Itachi going to get close enough for Izanami? seriously?
How is he getting though the forest or the spores or the clones?

You just dont get the magnitude of Hashirama's power.

 

[Joki]

the people here make posts that are far too long. nobody needs to make posts that long to see that hashirama>the uchiha bros. hashirama took down the strongest uchiha in history that had kurama by his side. if this fight actually happened sasuke and itachi would be killed or forced to retreat.

genjutsu- moot point. hashirama avoided genjutsu all his life and he fought madara who also has tsukiyomi.

amaterasu/enton-hashirama sprouts trees or wood from his body to push amaterasu off his body, then he would heal himself.

susano- susano gets restrained by mokuton whether people like it or not. hashirama is stronger than the uchiha brothers and this is not even considering mokuton clones or the flower tree world. hashirama can use the flower tree world and if sasuke flies up using his hawk, hashirama can merge with his trees and leave a clone out. when sasuke and itachi on the hawk fly near a tree or branch, hashirama comes out and grows wood from his arm to hit them in the range of the flower tree world. hashirama can also make mokuton come up from under susano, pull the brothers out and make them inhale the pollen. hashirama is also a weapons master and could use weapons and swords with mokuton branches.

I agree with you 100% and your posts are the best in this thread lol. As much as I'd like to not waste my time replying to someone for something that anyone isn't a massive fanboy agrees that Hashirama stomps, if I don't reply to the others I'll get a lot of shit for "Durr u just not responding cuz u cant counter".

 

[narutownsyouall]

wtf is with all the long ass posts -_- it's getting bothersome to read it all

And what do you mean "Hashirama fought many uchiha, he won't fall for finger genjutsu"

Is that the best you can come up with? Finger G is itachi's technique.. He made it, Has hashirama seen it before? no, has hashirama seen anything like it before? no, GTFO with that nonsense then..... Itachi has 2 genjutsu he uses that does not require eye contact... He can get hashirama in both.. and since this is a 2v1 fight, they can deliver killing blows in time...


Flower world as i said will be burnt down by dual amaterasu's, Moukoton will be cut , just like enma destroyed it...

Bringer of darkness? Reflected with heaven earth reversal

Sasuke can also prepare Kirin EASILY , seeing that they both would have used amaterasu on flower world, all he has to do is 1 silly katon, and that's more than enough to create storm clouds...

Constant susanno arrows from above with his hawk is another thing hashirama has to worry about..

and you dare tell me this fight won't last 5 mins? enough time for itachi to use iznaami?

sigh when will the overation end


the people here make posts that are far too long. nobody needs to make posts that long to see that hashirama>the uchiha bros. hashirama took down the strongest uchiha in history that had kurama by his side. if this fight actually happened sasuke and itachi would be killed or forced to retreat.


Great, if only that's all they have

Genjutsu- Hashirama may have avoided ocular genjutsu all his life by looking away, but as i stated itachi has two non eye contact genjutsu that he can't avoid..

Susanno arrows- Big enough to create a giant hole in his stomach, and they are covered in amaterasu

Kirin- Yea, He isn't protecting against something that comes down in fractions of a nanosecond..

Izanami- I dare you to tell me this fight isn't lasting 5mins, when his fight with hiruzen lasted like 30, and hiruzen had almost nothing

Susanno isn't getting restrained by shit, Not only can his wood get burned with sasuke's amaterasu spam, but both susanno are able to easily cut down the moukouton, i've said this before...He cannot make anything get under susanno.. susanno covers there feet.. where have you ever seen hashirama , madara etc, do a feat of sending moukoton undergrround?

Genjutsu that can be broken out of easily.

Susanoo arrows = Hashirama healing

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How is Itachi getting Izanami in?

Susanoo does not protect from underneath

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Are you effing kidding me? Trees come from the ground.

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[Owarij]

I left for a bit and the huge posts came (i barley read them)

He isn't going to look at his hands and What is Itachi going to do when he is being attacked by mokuton? He can't just randomly point and get him. Hashirama is not going to watch what they will do he will be on the offensive and will go straight for an attack. And Low level gen like that can be broken easy. Naruto broke it and he is terrible at gen.

Amatarsu only burns what it focuses on. It doesn't just burn anything nor does it spread.

And Itachi does not have enough chakra to spam Amatarasu like sasuke does.

Kirin can be blocked and avoided. First of all He can protect himself with trees and go underground. Or better yet he could just heal. Lightning can only kill if it causes cardiac arrest or severe burns. Hashirama can heal from both.

And again how are they going to escape from Flower world? Its pretty much over there you guys. Either they do not escape and they get crushed or they do and get knocked out.

And you think a hawk is going to support susanoo? And again, the arrows can have their projection changed with a tree. They wouldn't matter.

And how in the hell is Itachi going to get close enough for Izanami? seriously?
How is he getting though the forest or the spores or the clones?

You just dont get the magnitude of Hashirama's power.

So many incorrect things,
1) He will look at his hands, once again stop talking bs.. All ninjas look at the other ninjas hands to read their handseals and figure out what type of jutsu they are using, The fact that hashirama DOES NOT know of the finger genjutsu and has never seen it before, indicates he will look at it

If amaterasu's target is moukoton, it will burn all the moukoton..

Itachi doesn't have chakra to spam amaterasu? yet when he was dieing sick he used about 3 consecutively in a row? then sealed one in sasuke?

Kirin can be blocked and avoided. First of all He can protect himself with trees and go underground. Or better yet he could just heal. Lightning can only kill if it causes cardiac arrest or severe burns. Hashirama can heal from both.

Getting hit by kirin is instantly going to stop your heart, thus there is no healing is there?
Hashirama , like kabuto , heals after they receive the blow.., How is he getting close to itachi? who said izanami isn't medium range?
Itachi got hit by Ka when he was a decent distance away from the crow, wth? not to mention as i said, you haven't given ANY good counters for kirin yet...

sasuke burst through yamato's wood hut thingy with a small chidori... The wood isn't protecting him from Kirin myfriend, which destroyed an entire hideout

You keep avoiding his 2 genjutsu's why? tell me why?



Genjutsu that can be broken out of easily.

Susanoo arrows = Hashirama healing

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How is Itachi getting Izanami in?

Susanoo does not protect from underneath

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Are you effing kidding me? Trees come from the ground.

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Genjutsu that can be broken out easily? please stop speculating and talking total bs... When have you seen anyone break out of it? Do you have a databook article calling it low level? Did naruto not try to break out of it and failed? Please
You have no idea what it was


The susanno arrows are also covered in flames, which will burn hashirama from the inside.. Something he can't just excrete wood and fix...

How itachi is getting izanami in? cast it, simple...it does not require eye contact, touch, or any of the five senses, you put the person in a loop.. easy..

My bad Q.Q

as for susanno, simple. just as gaara dodged it by flying, they can do the same once sasuke summons his hawk

 

[narutownsyouall]

wtf is with all the long ass posts -_- it's getting bothersome to read it all

And what do you mean "Hashirama fought many uchiha, he won't fall for finger genjutsu"

Is that the best you can come up with? Finger G is itachi's technique.. He made it, Has hashirama seen it before? no, has hashirama seen anything like it before? no, GTFO with that nonsense then..... Itachi has 2 genjutsu he uses that does not require eye contact... He can get hashirama in both.. and since this is a 2v1 fight, they can deliver killing blows in time...


Flower world as i said will be burnt down by dual amaterasu's, Moukoton will be cut , just like enma destroyed it...

Bringer of darkness? Reflected with heaven earth reversal

Sasuke can also prepare Kirin EASILY , seeing that they both would have used amaterasu on flower world, all he has to do is 1 silly katon, and that's more than enough to create storm clouds...

Constant susanno arrows from above with his hawk is another thing hashirama has to worry about..

and you dare tell me this fight won't last 5 mins? enough time for itachi to use iznaami?

sigh when will the overation end


the people here make posts that are far too long. nobody needs to make posts that long to see that hashirama>the uchiha bros. hashirama took down the strongest uchiha in history that had kurama by his side. if this fight actually happened sasuke and itachi would be killed or forced to retreat.


Great, if only that's all they have

Genjutsu- Hashirama may have avoided ocular genjutsu all his life by looking away, but as i stated itachi has two non eye contact genjutsu that he can't avoid..

Susanno arrows- Big enough to create a giant hole in his stomach, and they are covered in amaterasu

Kirin- Yea, He isn't protecting against something that comes down in fractions of a nanosecond..

Izanami- I dare you to tell me this fight isn't lasting 5mins, when his fight with hiruzen lasted like 30, and hiruzen had almost nothing

Susanno isn't getting restrained by shit, Not only can his wood get burned with sasuke's amaterasu spam, but both susanno are able to easily cut down the moukouton, i've said this before...He cannot make anything get under susanno.. susanno covers there feet.. where have you ever seen hashirama , madara etc, do a feat of sending moukoton undergrround?

So many incorrect things,
1) He will look at his hands, once again stop talking bs.. All ninjas look at the other ninjas hands to read their handseals and figure out what type of jutsu they are using, The fact that hashirama DOES NOT know of the finger genjutsu and has never seen it before, indicates he will look at it

If amaterasu's target is moukoton, it will burn all the moukoton..

Itachi doesn't have chakra to spam amaterasu? yet when he was dieing sick he used about 3 consecutively in a row? then sealed one in sasuke?




Getting hit by kirin is instantly going to stop your heart, thus there is no healing is there?
Hashirama , like kabuto , heals after they receive the blow.., How is he getting close to itachi? who said izanami isn't medium range?
Itachi got hit by Ka when he was a decent distance away from the crow, wth? not to mention as i said, you haven't given ANY good counters for kirin yet...

sasuke burst through yamato's wood hut thingy with a small chidori... The wood isn't protecting him from Kirin myfriend, which destroyed an entire hideout

You keep avoiding his 2 genjutsu's why? tell me why?

The only way to kill someone who can heal is to take off their head. If your heart stops you can live long enough to heal. Kirin would not kill him but it would hurt a lot. healing from it would take chakra.

And the finger genjutsu is not that powerful. Hashirama can get out if it. The only person he used it on was Naruto who he knows was a crappy gen. user.

Did he use it on guy, or kakashi? He would have not have needed to use the Tsyukiyomi to take out kakashi if that were the case.

No Amatarasu only burns what it was focused on.

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Well the only way Itachi can use susanoo long enough to protect him from mokuton is if he is not draining all his chakra using Amatarasu.

And I countered Kirin. it would not kill him look up lightning and its effects.

You have to get close enough. And How is he going to get close enough?
Itachi was only 3 feet away from Kabuto when he activated it. Prove that it can go further than that.

And the gen. is low level and could be released.

How is he going to hit him with susanoo arrows? I already explained how he stops them.

Naruto got out of it by some help and he is bad at gen. Hashirama knows gen and Who else has the technique worked on. show me where the finger jutsu has beat a Kage level ninja.

How is he going to get close enough for izanami? oh yeah you dont know. And how are they getting past the flower world?

 

[TobisPawn]

1. Why would he look at there legs? You do not need to look down to avoid eye contact. Hashirama has fought Gen users and Knows how to avoid eye contact during a fight. And Hashirama has plenty of ways to protect himself. He could dodge it.

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It only burns what it focuses on. Unlike what you all seem to think.

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And here is sasuke dodging Amatarasu. And if they use amatarasu they can not use Tsyukiyomi at the same time. (notice how one eye closes) If they were to do it Hashirama could look him in the eyes and make a mokuton barrier. Another thing is that all he has to do is look at there face. Itachi's eye would bleed and sasuke would have a changed expression.

How can he see Amaterasu coming? Try looking at someone's face and not look at their eyes. -__-

And as shown against A, Amaterasu can form right on someone too. And why can't they use Tsukuyomi? There's TWO MS users here.

You can't look at someone's face w/o lookimg at their eyes.

As for clones. Are you kidding me? if he can't make at least 10 clones then there is no point to them. He would not need 25 to distract the Uchiha bro's. And they dont need to yell. They communicate through roots in the ground.

And Mokuton clones are not the same as kage bushin clones they are not 1 hit KO.

Madara has a lot more chakra than Hashirama now. You have no proof that he can make 25, or anywhere near that number. And seriously? While he's making the damn clones he can get hit by Amaterasu.

They can communicate through roots in the ground? The info will still take a little time to reach hime (as shown w/Zetsu); Amaterasu would hit by then.

Tsyukiyomi is going to be useless because how is Itachi going to use it when the whole time he is being attacked?

Way to brush it off because you have no counter.

There's two brothers, buddy. One fights off the Mokuton while the other prepares Tsukuyomi. Hell, Hashirama will be avoiding it with no eye contact, so Amaterasu hits him.

How in the hell is he not going to see the arrows? are you saying that He is going to look into Sasuke's eyes while he is staring at Susanoo? theres a giant monster between them. And again he can just deflect those and move there hit.

Itachi can distract him with Amaterasu while Sasuke (Hashirama looking at Itachi) hits him with an arrow.

And Hashirama is not a white venus fly trap because he is not mokuton, he is just its creator. And his mokuton is 10x better than zetsu's.

Ok, Hashirama can do the Zetsu stuff. How does that help him?

The Manda thing is not helpful considering this.

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Two panels to summon.

Now we have this.

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First they realize that they have to flee upwards or they are crushed. When are they going to even recognize the pollen when they are both running.

Now as for the hawk.

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"in an instant"

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5 Kage level are dropped. Sasuke and Itachi are high Kage level but they could not withstand this.

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Sasuke summoned Manda, controlled him, got inside him, and teleported away, all in this instant. Sasuke can avoid something that takes "two panels" to grow.

Blaze release takes a lot of chakra and secondly. Amatarasu only burns what it focuses on. and it is not nearly as fast as you guys keep saying it is.

Blaze Release takes a lot of chakra? Where's your proof? Amaterasu isn't fast? WTF?

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Only A, in V2, could dodge it. And note that there'll be TWO Amaterasu users.

How are they going to Amatarasu him when they are so far away?
And a susanoo arrow would not kill him.

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Tsunade can do and so can Hashirama.

Where's your proof that distance matters for Amaterasu? As long as the bros can see, they can use Amataerasu.

Fair enough, a Susanoo Arrow, unless its to the face (which can easily hit w/one bro distracting), can't kill.

Hashirama can dodge or put up a block for amatarasu and heal from it by pushing the flames off him with mokuton. I already shoed you why the arrows would not work and he can easily change direction.

He can't dodge or block it because:

1. HE WON'T SEE IT COMING.
2. HE'S NOT AS FAST AS V2 A.

And if he pushes them off with Mokuton, the fire will only spread more on wood.

And ok, fair enough for the arrows (unless they're to the face).

Katon can't do crap to his trees.

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Madara would have scorched them if not for the trees. And his Katon is much better. Amatarasu only burns the focused point. And is limited to that small area.

>Implying that Madara's Mokuton = Hashirama's Mokuton

But still, the Katon will make a good distraction. Raiton can cut them in half. Susanoo swords (Amaterasu sword; Sword of Totsuka) can cut them. Yata Mirror can block Mokuton. Blaze Release can burn it too.

Madara has about 60% of the ability that Hahirama has. At best he has 75%.
Remember how Tsunade thought is impossible for him to recreate the flower world? Its because nobody has a complete form of Mokuton and his is the most advanced but not on Hashirama's level.

He would still win!

Madara recreated it, and there you have it. -__-

Madara is edo, has Hashirama (Senju) DNA, Uchiha DNA, and enhancements by Kabuto. Kabuto literally fused Madara and Hashirama.

Madara's Mokuton > Hashirama's Mokuton.

Hashirama's Mokuton:

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Madara's Mokuton (SAME TECH):

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Nice try with the false assumptions. And again, I've proven you wrong.

 

[Owarij]

The only way to kill someone who can heal is to take off their head. If your heart stops you can live long enough to heal. Kirin would not kill him but it would hurt a lot. healing from it would take chakra.

Instantly you're wrong, If a jutsu kills them instantly, or is too much to heal they are dead.
For eg, Rasenshruiken will kill anyone of them, Tbb will kill any one of them... Kirin STOPS your heart INSTANTLY , you can't produce chakra, you can't heal.. No sir , nothing,,
Paralysis , amnesia , these are things you can't just heal from..
Healing is just healing tissue.. He can heal from the burns, BUT NOT when lightning stops his hearts and fks up his brain

And the finger genjutsu is not that powerful.

Great prove that with a mangascan

Did he use it on guy, or kakashi? He would have not have needed to use the Tsyukiyomi to take out kakashi if that were the case.

What kind of argument is that? really? He had perfectly working eye contact genjutsu, and finger genjtusu isn't a jutsu to 1 shot someone.. tsukyomi is..

Amaterasu only burns what it's focused on? yea, that's why when sasuke focused it on susanno, and raikage punched it, his hand caught on fire ..

Prove that it can go further than that.

argumentum ad ignorantiam, try again

And the gen. is low level and could be released.

Once again, show your valid basis to support that claim

 

[narutownsyouall]

How can he see Amaterasu coming? Try looking at someone's face and not look at their eyes. -__-

And as shown against A, Amaterasu can form right on someone too. And why can't they use Tsukuyomi? There's TWO MS users here.

You can't look at someone's face w/o lookimg at their eyes.



Madara has a lot more chakra than Hashirama now. You have no proof that he can make 25, or anywhere near that number. And seriously? While he's making the damn clones he can get hit by Amaterasu.

They can communicate through roots in the ground? The info will still take a little time to reach hime (as shown w/Zetsu); Amaterasu would hit by then.



Way to brush it off because you have no counter.

There's two brothers, buddy. One fights off the Mokuton while the other prepares Tsukuyomi. Hell, Hashirama will be avoiding it with no eye contact, so Amaterasu hits him.




Itachi can distract him with Amaterasu while Sasuke (Hashirama looking at Itachi) hits him with an arrow.




Ok, Hashirama can do the Zetsu stuff. How does that help him?

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Sasuke summoned Manda, controlled him, got inside him, and teleported away, all in this instant. Sasuke can avoid something that takes "two panels" to grow.



Blaze Release takes a lot of chakra? Where's your proof? Amaterasu isn't fast? WTF?

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Only A, in V2, could dodge it. And note that there'll be TWO Amaterasu users.



Where's your proof that distance matters for Amaterasu? As long as the bros can see, they can use Amataerasu.

Fair enough, a Susanoo Arrow, unless its to the face (which can easily hit w/one bro distracting), can't kill.




He can't dodge or block it because:

1. HE WON'T SEE IT COMING.
2. HE'S NOT AS FAST AS V2 A.

And if he pushes them off with Mokuton, the fire will only spread more on wood.

And ok, fair enough for the arrows (unless they're to the face).



>Implying that Madara's Mokuton = Hashirama's Mokuton

But still, the Katon will make a good distraction. Raiton can cut them in half. Susanoo swords (Amaterasu sword; Sword of Totsuka) can cut them. Yata Mirror can block Mokuton. Blaze Release can burn it too.



Madara recreated it, and there you have it. -__-

Madara is edo, has Hashirama (Senju) DNA, Uchiha DNA, and enhancements by Kabuto. Kabuto literally fused Madara and Hashirama.

Madara's Mokuton > Hashirama's Mokuton.

Hashirama's Mokuton:

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Madara's Mokuton (SAME TECH):

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Nice try with the false assumptions. And again, I've proven you wrong.

You baffle me. You do not need to look in someones eyes to fight. Are you stupid? Anybody can look at someones face without looking them in the eyes.

Why would he need 25 clones? 10 will suffice. Amatarasu can be avoided. Hashirama could just form wood around himself and move all the way to the back of the field.

Oh yeah tell me how they are going to keep from getting knocked out from the pollen again. Oh wait you cant....

How is one brother going to take on mokuton by himself?

He is going to die from getting attacked from all sides and from underground and the clones will overwhelm him.

Hashirama using the zetsu abilities help him because he can move around anywhere he wants just as fast a zetsu does.
He cant make it above the forest that fast. And hashirama could just grow trees to him to stop him.

Your example was not blaze release that was amatarasu. And Sasuke can dodge it and Hashirama can make a barrier and push it away from his body.

Amatarasu can not spread. It only burns what it focuses on.

Distance matters. It sha rder to focus on something further away and it would take longer for them to hone in on the target.

Madara is no where near where Hashirama's is. Madara said that he only had a bit of Hashirama's power holding on to him.

Your trolling saying that Madara's is better.

Madara was able to recreate it. Not create it.

 

[narutownsyouall]

Instantly you're wrong, If a jutsu kills them instantly, or is too much to heal they are dead.
For eg, Rasenshruiken will kill anyone of them, Tbb will kill any one of them... Kirin STOPS your heart INSTANTLY , you can't produce chakra, you can't heal.. No sir , nothing,,
Paralysis , amnesia , these are things you can't just heal from..
Healing is just healing tissue.. He can heal from the burns, BUT NOT when lightning stops his hearts and fks up his brain


Great prove that with a mangascan

What kind of argument is that? really? He had perfectly working eye contact genjutsu, and finger genjtusu isn't a jutsu to 1 shot someone.. tsukyomi is..

Amaterasu only burns what it's focused on? yea, that's why when sasuke focused it on susanno, and raikage punched it, his hand caught on fire ..


argumentum ad ignorantiam, try again




Once again, show your valid basis to support that claim

Again you are wrong. If the brain still works he can heal.
Where does it say that the heart produces chakra?
Do sasuke or Itachi have TBB or Rasenshuriken?

Prove that the finger gen. can beat a Kage level ninja.


"What kind of argument is that? really? He had perfectly working eye contact genjutsu, and finger genjtusu isn't a jutsu to 1 shot someone.. tsukyomi is.."

Exactly. Thanks for proving yourself wrong


"Amaterasu only burns what it's focused on? yea, that's why when sasuke focused it on susanno, and raikage punched it, his hand caught on fire .."

Show me a scan of this please.

You ignored it because you have no counter.

You have nothing behind your claims.

How are they going to deal with flower world again?

 

[TheSages456]

wtf is with all the long ass posts -_- it's getting bothersome to read it all

And what do you mean "Hashirama fought many uchiha, he won't fall for finger genjutsu"

Is that the best you can come up with? Finger G is itachi's technique.. He made it, Has hashirama seen it before? no, has hashirama seen anything like it before? no, GTFO with that nonsense then..... Itachi has 2 genjutsu he uses that does not require eye contact... He can get hashirama in both.. and since this is a 2v1 fight, they can deliver killing blows in time...


Flower world as i said will be burnt down by dual amaterasu's, Moukoton will be cut , just like enma destroyed it...

Bringer of darkness? Reflected with heaven earth reversal

Sasuke can also prepare Kirin EASILY , seeing that they both would have used amaterasu on flower world, all he has to do is 1 silly katon, and that's more than enough to create storm clouds...

Constant susanno arrows from above with his hawk is another thing hashirama has to worry about..

and you dare tell me this fight won't last 5 mins? enough time for itachi to use iznaami?

sigh when will the overation end


the people here make posts that are far too long. nobody needs to make posts that long to see that hashirama>the uchiha bros. hashirama took down the strongest uchiha in history that had kurama by his side. if this fight actually happened sasuke and itachi would be killed or forced to retreat.


Great, if only that's all they have

Genjutsu- Hashirama may have avoided ocular genjutsu all his life by looking away, but as i stated itachi has two non eye contact genjutsu that he can't avoid..

Susanno arrows- Big enough to create a giant hole in his stomach, and they are covered in amaterasu

Kirin- Yea, He isn't protecting against something that comes down in fractions of a nanosecond..

Izanami- I dare you to tell me this fight isn't lasting 5mins, when his fight with hiruzen lasted like 30, and hiruzen had almost nothing

Susanno isn't getting restrained by shit, Not only can his wood get burned with sasuke's amaterasu spam, but both susanno are able to easily cut down the moukouton, i've said this before...He cannot make anything get under susanno.. susanno covers there feet.. where have you ever seen hashirama , madara etc, do a feat of sending moukoton undergrround?

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

itachi isnt catching any kage level ninjas in finger genjutsu. why did he not do this to tobi, the man he wanted to kill. all he had to do was point a finger at him.

sasukes susano arrows arent covered in amaterasu. hashirama would just make a tree come from his arm to divert them.

the conditions at the uchiha hideout were perfect for kirin. sasuke isnt prepping shit on a random spot in a battlefield.

hashirama would outlast itachis izanami. congratulations itachi just lost his sharingan for no reason and the chances for the uchiha bros to beat hashirama is wayyy lower than it was at the beginning.

now lets get to the most LOL worthy part of your post. you say susano(excluding madaras final susano)protects the feet.

Spoiler

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now all hashirama has to do is spawn mokuton under itachi and sasukes feet. yes mokuton is restraining susano whether you like it or not. mokuton would restrain its arms(the things that carry susano swords)to prevent it from slashing branches. you need to realize that 100% kurama is far stronger than susano in raw power. mokuton doesnt suppress tailed beasts the moment it touches them. you actually have to restrain them first. that part is obvious. also you want me to give evidence of mokuton coming from the ground. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. one more thing, amaterasu couldnt burn the forest around the uchiha hideout but you think its incinerating mokuton LOL. amaterasu wouldnt be able to incinerate an entire forest that is bigger than a meteor anyway.

 

[Owarij]

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

itachi isnt catching any kage level ninjas in finger genjutsu. why did he not do this to tobi, the man he wanted to kill. all he had to do was point a finger at him.

sasukes susano arrows arent covered in amaterasu. hashirama would just make a tree come from his arm to divert them.

the conditions at the uchiha hideout were perfect for kirin. sasuke isnt prepping shit on a random spot in a battlefield.

hashirama would outlast itachis izanami. congratulations itachi just lost his sharingan for no reason and the chances for the uchiha bros to beat hashirama is wayyy lower than it was at the beginning.

now lets get to the most LOL worthy part of your post. you say susano(excluding madaras final susano)protects the feet.

Spoiler

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now all hashirama has to do is spawn mokuton under itachi and sasukes feet. yes mokuton is restraining susano whether you like it or not. mokuton would restrain its arms(the things that carry susano swords)to prevent it from slashing branches. you need to realize that 100% kurama is far stronger than susano in raw power. mokuton doesnt suppress tailed beasts the moment it touches them. you actually have to restrain them first. that part is obvious. also you want me to give evidence of mokuton coming from the ground. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

and you link incomplete susanno?

you ask why he didn't use it on tobi?

honestly?what's wrong with you? do you read the manga?

sigh
1) Sharingan can see through genjutsu
2) did itachi want to fight tobi? He was dieing of sickness and taking medication to prolong his life, you think he wanted to fight tobi? when he inteded on dieing by sasuke's hands?
sigh

-_- You realize moukotoun can supress bijuu chakra right? Moukoton itself can be cut as seen with moukoton.. And sasuke broke it with his chidori, try again

sasukes susano arrows arent covered in amaterasu.

Yea , cause you totally diidn't see sasuke susanno arrow zetsu and set him on fire
maybe you need a reminder

Spoiler

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Out last his izanami? wtf are you talking about? at the cost of an eye itachi puts you in loop... Just like kabuto is just standing there, Sasuke can easily slice his head off right now.. try again


Conditions were perfect for kirin? what shit are you spewing now? The hideout was just a hideout.... Itachi used amaterasu which began heating the air, then sasuke used a katon.. there you go.. kirin


Once again, you try so hard to ignore itachi's finger genjutsu and dusk crow genjutsu, with fail speculation that they are low level, yet itachi got caught in tayuyas "lowlevel" genjutsu