I'm surprised anyone would think that way especially regarding shinobi. Success comes before pride, especially for someone that has lost the bulk of his once great power. Listen to Danzou here.
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This is Tobi to the core. He has been working in the shadows since forever. I can't remember the chapter or I'd simply post more evidence but we know Zetsu's pretty much the only one who really knew about Tobi. When they went to retrieve the Akatsuki rings and Tobi, of either Sasori or Deidara, Tobi expressed interest in joing Akatsuki and Black Zetsu clearly states he thinks it's a bad idea indicating that this is the time Tobi chose to come out of the shadows.
and I have further doubts regarding how he could have possibly lived for so long. Great theory though, you put a lot of work into it and it was interesting but I'm going have to disregard it as I do all Tobi theories because there are too many possibilities.
I'm also curious how anyone can find it strange that he's lived that long but believed it when he said he was Madara. Look at it, he has Zetsu's part. He basically patched his body together this way. Primarily though, this guys has shown he can work beyond the limitations of time and space. He could have survived through any of these methods.
Re: Official Tobi ID thread:All Tobi theories go here:-
*Theory Update* i doubt I can repost it without the Moderators PWN'n me, if you want to view it, just click my name and go to recent posts, also it's long as hell in in fragment form
Yea like Obito Uchiha, most people just rule him out without thinking because he supposedly dies during the 3rd Shinobi World War, yet nobody knows Rin's wereabouts*I'm sick of people just saying she died sometime after the 3rd Shinobi World War, you(people in general) don't know that*. If they say Rin died but don't know how or where she is what makes you think Obito didn't survive his "death" *my theory explains all of this and then some*
Yea like Obito Uchiha, most people just rule him out without thinking because he supposedly dies during the 3rd Shinobi World War, yet nobody knows Rin's wereabouts*I'm sick of people just saying she died sometime after the 3rd Shinobi World War, you(people in general) don't know that*. If they say Rin died but don't know how or where she is what makes you think Obito didn't survive his "death" *my theory explains all of this and then some*
Re: Official Tobi ID thread:All Tobi theories go here:-
Looks like it got merged. For new readers.
Oh man. I never thought I’d actually join in this Tobi shit but here goes. Didn't take too much thought, it just made sense and that's why I believe it for the moment.
Now, where to start. Okay straight to the point. I say he’s the Rikudou Sage’s Elder son. Of course this is not the first time you’ve heard this and just like anyone else’s theory this is something I genuinely believe and I’ll provide adequate reasoning to supplement the statement without just saying it and would love to engage in cool discussion. Here goes.
There are certain things that I can attribute to him being the son:
• Tobi’s knowledge and potential age
• His techniques
• His motives and his current state
• Potential parallels in his storytelling
• His wish to be "complete"
The Elder son’s eyes
Before starting let’s just look back a bit and perhaps agree on one thing. I haven’t read Elder son threads so I’m not exactly sure what people have generally agreed upon as far as the Elder son’s eyes go but it’s already obvious that this is without doubt Mangekyou Sharingan, the very first. What we definitely know is that it isn’t a Rinnegan.
Here we see a Sage of six Paths with a real Rinnegan.
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Here we the see the elder son with an eye technique that is certainly not a Rinnegan.
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This spiral doujutsu is something I believe to be the Elder son’s unique doujutsu, Mangekyou sharingan. Okay then, back to Tobi.
Tobi’s knowledge and age
Alright this dude knows just about if not everything about the Uchiha. He also seems to be known by Madara who is old as dirt. When he’s not being silly he’s insightful and shares knowledge about the Uchiha history and genetics. The reasons this guy sold his “Madara” story to readers so well is because he speaks as if he has witnessed such events. I believe his stories parallel events that perhaps occurred earlier. This guy loves to play out and watch these battles between the “sons” like Hashirama vs Madara and has directly told Naruto that he’s going to drive him towards a battle with Sasuke.
What he wants from re-enacting these battles I cannot truly say. Because he trained Itachi and most likely guided him towards the clans most powerful secrets, I can only speculate that he may have had a hand in the Madara’s development as well, perhaps for the sole reason of breeding the Rinnegan at some point. Madara didn't just awaken the MS, he was guided. Why he couldn’t do this himself is perhaps due to his present condition. He is in shambles compared to his prime self by his own admission as stated here
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This is probably why he is a proxy fighter, never taking any serious action himself until he was ready to begin his final moves. He always gets someone else to stand in his place. This may be why he gave Nagato Madara’s Rinnegan which he in turn considers his eyes because he is the reason Madara unlocked it in the first place. We know he’s being held together with Zetsu’s (who is a topic for another time altogether) parts and he looks old. There are a number of reasons he may be alive. Possibly due to vitality acquired due to his own brother and or a refill from Hashirama later via Zetsu or through his S/T jutsu. Immortality ain't a big thing for certain characters in this mang.
His techniques
He has the most powerful Space-Time Ninjutsu abilities we have witnessed in the manga so far and he executes them with absolute ease. The techniques appear to in all honesty originate from his eye and due to the fact that he doesn’t use any seals can be fairly assumed to be techniques based on his Sharingan. We cannot really deny that.
Now then let’s look at it. I’ll just say it, these advanced techniques that come from his eyes appear to be MS techniques. Yes, despite the fact that he doesn’t have or at least show a Mangekyou pattern, they certainly originate from his eyes and are not part of the base Sharingan menu. We now know that there are other techniques aside from the Big Three....or four...five that can be executed by the Uchiha. These techniques however all require the Mangekyou to actually even be able to do. The prime example is Kakashi’s Kamui.
Now Tobi has shown:
Extremely powerful S/T that had a kage who specialized in S/T jutsu and even Kakashi acknowledge that there has been nobody better.
Genjutsu so powerful that it that controlled a Kage jinchuuriki for years on end, made a highly trained shinobi like Konan reveal information she’d rather have died with and other examples.
There’s absolutely no doubt in my mind that these originate from his eye. They aren’t normal ninjutsu as they require no seals and he does them at will. They are also far too powerful to come from the normal Sharingan and so I consider them MS techniques regardless of Tobi’s appearance while using them. I’d even go so far as to say that his Genjutsu is actually Tsukuyomi. We can see that certain MS techniques differ between individuals all the way from Amaterasu to Susano’o. His Tsukuyomi probably differs in the same way. His Genjutsu techs so far have been based around total mind control. While Itachi creates an isolated world in which he is a god leaving the individual stuck in his mind, Tobi’s seems to be more similar to Shisui’s techniques in having dominance over another’s free will without their knowledge. We are also further aware that he does indeed possess this kind of ability by the very fact that he has already stated he intends to initiate Mugen Tsukuyomi. The same control he had over individuals would now be applied on a massive global scale.
These are MS techniques and it seems Tobi can execute them without an MS. This is not impossible. In fact, where have we seen such a thing before? Yep, we saw it from Itachi. Before he died he was dribbling Oro with Susano’o and neither of his eyes was even in the base Sharingan state!
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That Elder son Mangekyou spiral also seems to reflect in the form with which he executes his S/T jutsu and even in his mask. Now that he feels he has ascended or at least is on the way to his goal his mask now reflects a Sharingan pattern similar to that of the Juubi’s eye. Tobi just loves telling his stories.
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His Plan/Motives
Let’s again look back at the story behind the So6P’s sons and notice something about them before war broke out between them.
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You see that. They BOTH shared their father’s vision and wanted peace. Their ideas behind how it could be achieved were just tremendously different. The elder son thought it could be achieved through might. In this context peace meant having the bigger stick and governing with power. It’s the type of peace that doesn’t rely on people’s will but subjugates it and brings it about that way.
That’s exactly what Tobi wants!
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Mugen Tsukuyomi will bring about peace by force. To him there is just no other way. He will simply cleanse the world, if not of war directly then of the wills of individuals that bring about war. That’s the plan. It’s possibly personal as well in that his success will validate his philosophy. There’s no way there isn’t a little chip on his shoulder after not being chosen as the Sage’s successor. No point in thinking about the why, he’s insane. Insanity can coexist with coherence.
In terms of his state and the processes he goes through to achieve his goals one thing can be seen. He’s no longer what he used to be and what he wants to be is beyond what he used to be. Listen to him here and understand what he means.
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I want to be complete. Not I want to be complete again. What could that mean? Well let’s take a look at that same chapter. It’s explained that the Sage divided aspects his power between his sons. Tobi could see this as each son being an incomplete version of his father, which is true. He’s made it known that he intends to be a So6P and is actually calling himself the second one at the moment. He:
Wants to be complete
Wants to be So6P
Those are parallel goals that imply he’s at least a little ways there. Now to truly finish it so he can mimic daddy he’s going to become the ultimate jinchuuriki of the juubi.
Miscellaneous stuff
This miscellaneous but relevant stuff:
Tobi mentions Sasuke's Susano'o is quit rare and he's keeping it for his stockpile. The way he spoke of Susano'o's rarity indicates that he's been around long enough to judge it's frequency. Uchiha of a particular generation would deem it unique but someone who's seen such things before would consider it rare.
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People underestimate the significance in Tobi possessing the fan. Most would simply attribute it to his imitation of Madara who used to wield such a fan in a different colour. What we need to understand is that the fan is NOT just Uchiha Madara's weapon, it is the symbol of the Uchiha and who better to wield it in each generation but the leader of the clan? Madara was once that man and as such he wielded the clans symbol with pride. Now that Tobi is no longer in the shadows he is wielding the fan and Madara isn't. Kishi knows what he's doing here. The elder son has returned to his post as the Prime Uchiha.
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Now we know that Madara didn't help Itachi murder the clan but Tobi did. I doubt he was mad at the weakness of the clan as he claimed. He had been waiting for years but the clan massacre provided him with the perfect timing and excuse to harvest the Uchiha clan. That stockpile of eyes didn't come from nowhere. Tobi has been using his descendants for years.
What exactly happened to his original eyes then? Possibly Izanagi or they gradually lost their light. Either way, he can make such sacrifices at the moment because he has so many eyes just waiting in reserve.
I can't remember what else I wanted to say so that’s it. This is why I believe Tobi to be the elder son. He doesn’t need to be someone we know. He doesn’t need to be someone that can stir an emotional reaction in any of the current characters. All he needs to be is somebody that can unite people in order to face a powerful foe and that’s exactly what he is. He is likely the final villain for this very reason.
Re: Official Tobi ID thread:All Tobi theories go here:-
Thank you kishi.
Latest chapter shows Danzo had Shisui's eye when Oro was still around in Konoha, thus raising the possible age of Shisui. It was one of the reasons people said Tobi could'nt be him(that Shisui was too young).
Nothing is 100%, but i lean more and more to Tobi being Shisui atm.
Re: Official Tobi ID thread:All Tobi theories go here:-
I'm almost certain Tobi is at least an Uchiha. Then there's several candidates. Not Sasuke's dad, Fugaku, though. Just no. Can't really believe it's Shisui either. It doesn't make sense with the relation we know between Tobi and Itachi and Itachi and Shisui if Tobi is Shisui.
Setsuna or Kagami makes most sense to me. Setsuna does really look like Tobi the most. He is very unknown, have known motives which match Tobi's, name means "Instant" (Teleportation, Tobi's trademark anyone?) and even has spiky hair. Only thing is that his hair seems brown where Tobi has black hair. Also to mention he has a faceguard over his right face half. Shisui's eyes are totally different from Tobi's aswell.
Re: Official Tobi ID thread:All Tobi theories go here:-
The lastest chapter closed up alot of theory holes that I couldn't defend. I'm actually shocked at how well this stuff fits together. I'm finishing it up on MS Word proofreading and placing plausible quotes, this thing is 1700+ words long I may finish it tomorrow. Many if not all questions about Tobi's identity will be answered PREPARE YOUR MINDS FOR A MAJOR CLUSTER****!!!!
Tobi is the ten tails....
It bothers to see some responses to this theory so here I go with my points....
1.Tobi sharingan is always active. The only time we see this is when the user is NOT an uchiha.....ex. kakasi and danzo's are always active.
2.Tobi has a room full of sharingan. Obviously there are only two reasons to have such a ting. One reason is your gonna use izanagi a thousand times....or the second and more likely is that your experimenting on how to perfect the sharingan and learning how to cmbine powers and strengths. For example....taking the space/time jutsu from one eye and taking the powerful genjutsu of another.
3. Madara refers to eye of moon plan as "our plan" if he cloned himself to accomplish something he wud have said "my plan".
4. While we're on madara..let's tink about this. Madara fought with hashirama countless times, the villages made peace, madara left, then came back to get some of hashirama dna......THINK ABOUT IT.!! Mdara had plenty of chances to get that dna prior to that fight. No, after madara left someone told him about the power derived frm senju and uchiha power combined. This was tobi. In exchange for this info and senju dna infusion afterward, madara gave tobi senju dna. Also, madara never hted uchiha.....if he wanted uchiha dead he wud have killed many b4 he left. And when he came back he only went for senju BECAUSE of surpressing uchiha.
5. Madara knew about nagato...but how cud he give nagato the rinnegan wen u got it just b4 death. No, tobi told madara how to get rinnegan, madara went and got senju dna, then after alittle expirementing tobi was able to create it in madara. By his time madara was old and injured, so tobi convinced him to give up his remaining power in exchange for revival later. Madara agreed and tobi then used research gathred to infuse nagato in secret. (Tobi controlled hidden mist at the time thru 4th mizukag).
6. Tobi durability is outstanding....but notice he only comes out of the shadows after madara dies. Why.? If he's not a madara clone...here's why. Tobi is a black zetsu created by the sage of six paths. Let me start with madara. White zetsu was made from hashirama dna. Dna tobi got AFTER madara fight with 1st hokage. So prior to this black zetsu was a whole, and prolly not too powerful because madara was the first uchiha to amass his level of power. All tobi (black zetsu) had was knowledge. But thru deals with madara tobi acquired not only senju cells, but a deceased uchiha body. By splitting himself in half, tobi (or black zetsu) was able to attatch his left half to madara's body and his right half to an "alter ego" of hashirama senju. He probably had madara help him with making white zetsu and attaching his right half first. Then aftr madara died zetsu attached the left half to madara, forming tobi.
7. Assuming tobi originally was just a black zetsu with extensive knowledge, prior to meeting madara....where did tis black zetsu come from. I belive it was the sage. Every tailed beast has a mind and personality. So what of the ten tails mind.? The sage seperated the ten tails chakra into the tailed beast and locked its body in a "stone prison". But where did he put its mind. The sage cud create from nothing and I believe he created a body for the ten tails and put its mind inside. Maybe as a type of second chance. I think the sage could have locked this body away in a pocket dimension which someone later stumbled into. Releasng the
ten tals in its human form. (The trapped in a pocket dimension thing is unlikely, but maybe)
8. The elder son of the sage was def the ten tails (tobi's) first victim. Whether he was released by the son, or was never trapped and was roaming free...he somehow got the sons ear. The ten tails thrived on hatred and he turned the elder son against the youner son. This is something the ten tail wud do over and over again. Ex. Madara vs. Hashirama and sasuke vs naruto.
9. As a "nobody" in a body created by the sage probably with whatever chakra was leftover from the creation of bijuus tobi only goal was to undo what his enemy the sage had done to him. The only trick is he needed the sage to undo it. So instead he wud use the sage's descendants. He wud play them against each other, all the while acquiring more power. The ten tails is the enemy of humanity.
10. The ten tails body and eye of the moon plan. The sage is a myth "based" on fact. He did not create the moon. So where is this "stone prison". THINK ABOUT IT.!!! The rinnegan (which only the sage had) comes with many summons. We know the sage could create from nothing so its obvious he created these beasts....but only one stand apart from the rest. The demonic statue. Bound by chains with a conveniant bandage over its face with 9 eyes for the tailed beast. Think about it. Sage created the tailed beast b4 his death, why wud he have a summoning to seal them.??? Think about it, when he created the tailed beast he let them run free. So what was this thing prior to the creation of the bijuus. This is the stone prison.!!! This statue houses the mindlles and chakra-less ten tails body. Which is why it had to drain nagato clean dry b4 it could attack Hanzo.
11.Uchiha massacre...this is simple. Once nagato had grown and tobi (thru mizukage) orchestrated hanzo to push nagato off the edge he had a rinnegan and no longer needed the uchiha. It seems since tobi is not a real persn he cannot create nor improve on jutsu. He needs someone else to progress then use their power for himself. So tobi attacks konoha with kyubii and relies on danzo to order uchiha massacre. After which he and danzo (maybe seperately) collected all the sharingan left behind.
12. Which uchiha is tobi.? Over time there have been many powerfl warriors, andi belive tobi has had a sample of most of their power. When tobi realizes danzo has shisui's eye he goes bananas trying to get it. This is because tobi is a collector not a creator. He takes power from evryone he can trying to become stronger. I belive his pocket dimension jutsu came from the elder son of sage. The elder son eyes had a spiral pattern, one that resembles the pattern of tobi's original mask. Now tobis mask resembles the ten tails eye. I think madara, obito, shisui, and many other uchiha have had there power added to tobi's power pool through various and unknown means.
So there it is....tobi is a zetsu created by the sage with the mind of the ten tails. All he knows is hatred and darkness and wishes to plague mankind as he did once before. The only man to outsmart him was the sage....and naruto who seems to be resembling the sage more and more will be his final opponent.
P.s. I may have left some points out....let me know what u think. I mixed facts with theories.
I'm convinced only after reading the first five points but one problem, Madara never got old because he is youngish in Edo so that means he died at that age
I'm convinced only after reading the first five points but one problem, Madara never got old because he is youngish in Edo so that means he died at that age
