Re: tobi or uchiha shisui??
okey, lets just do this the right way, with the manga as backup. I'm going to go trough the manga from the start and draw conclusions everytime of what we know at that point not including what comes in later chapters. as I continue with my explanation those conclusions will be addapted to include the new information every time?
first time we heard shisui's name spoken was way back, and most of the proof we need is right there.
I'm talking about chapter 222 page 4, this is a flashback of sasuke and itachi's time together befor the clan masacre. here itachi is confronted by 3 uchiha from the police force questioning him about why he was not present at the meeting and about the supposed suicide of uchiha shisui, by drowning in the nakano river. now how can they know that if they didn't find his body there?? at that time this suggests that his body was intact and could be identified. he was spoken of to be highly skilled so it is possible that at that moment the anbu decided to distroy his body so that shisiu's secrets could not be stolen, this is however unsure, it is equaly probable that his body was preserved. just not enough is known at that time. here also itachi becomes suspected of having killed shisui with the sole purpose of unlocking his MS.
much later (chapter 459 page 14) we discover that danzo is in possesion of shisui's right eye and arm when Ao uses his byakugan on him. so at that time it's obvious that danzo got to shisui's body befor it could be destroyed (at that time we did not yet know danzo took his eye befor his death, but I'll get to that) we also learn that shisui had one of the most powerfull genjutsu techniques known in the shinobi world and that he was a dangerous opponent to face.
a bit later (chapter 480 page 10) danzo outused his izanagi tech and got stabed by sasuke, this coused him to loose control over hashirama's cells and he had to separate his arm from his body, this grew into a tree, so it's byebye shisui's arm, all that remains of shisui now with danzo is his right eye. and danzo destroy's this eye as he dies to prevent madara from geting to the genjutsu (482 page 13) as far as we know now only shisui's right eye and right arm have been distroyed, the state of the rest of his body is unknown to us now.
later kabuto gives us more information. (chapter 520 page 14) he mentions that he could not find shisui's body but that his dna should still be in danzo's distroyed eye. now this is no conclusive evidence that his entire body actualy is distroyed but it's a pretty good bet, since kabuto managed to get to former kage, and monsters like those brothers with kyubi chakra. him not being able to get shisui's body gives it a realy big probability that the body was distroyed, but I will admit that it's possible that it's just well hidden, although I find it more probable that it was distroyed. also, kabuto mentioning shisui at that point proves that he wanted to have him in his collection, that he valued his power and was aware of his ability's and that he must have realy tried to get it.
and now we come to the final part, where itachi speaks of shisui and his history. chapter 550 page 9, here itachi reveals that he had shisui's left eye and was capable of influencing the genjutsu it can cast. by inplanting it in a crow and giving that to naruto with instructions that it should appear when itachi's MS is seen. on page 11 (the one posted by others here) it's made clear that shisui wanted itachi to have his left eye to protect konoha. to prevent conflict over his eye's he asked itachi to hide this eye from everyone and make it look like he distroyed it himself. also we are told that danzo already took his right eye at that time, and if you look at the first panel on that page you can see that he does still have his right arm. this proves that danzo got to shisui's body after he had died and that there actualy was a body. now with the tech being usless for another 10 years itachi distroy's the last eye to prevent further conflict over them.
as we know, in the events after the flashback of shisui's death itachi has the MS and prepares to take out the clan with the help of madara.
now my final conclusion about all this and how I think things stand, conclusions drawn from this research. this is how I think the events went chronologicaly.
it all starts with shisui unlocking his MS, how this is done is unknown but also irrelevant to the story. danzo got intel about his newfound abilitys and wanted them for his rise to power from the shadows. admit it, a genjutsu to control people in such a manner that they are unaware of it is perfect for his goals. so possibly danzo orderd shisui to give up one eye or he took it by force. I think it's the first, otherwhise he would not have left him alive and would have taken both eye's in order to prevent anyone else having the tech.
because of this shisui realised the danger his genjutsu could pose to the shinobi world if used in the wrong way and that he is going to be targeted by people who want to attain this power. so he decides to give his eye to itachi. he also wanted to show the world that his powers are no longer available so he commit 's suicide while making it look like he distroyed his eye's himself. itachi was probably present at this time to take possesion if shisui's eye and help him make it look like distroying the eyes. wheather or not itachi murderd shisui by his wish (Euthanasia) or if shisui did it himself (suicide) is unclear but whatever happend it must have been troumatising enough for itachi to activate his MS.
police force found the body and relocated it for investigation of the death and they accused itachi.
later danzo and the elders orderd itachi to take out the clan. itachi formed an aliance with madara to make it happen (hiding the truth about shisui's eye's) and together they took out the clan. possibly danzo was already working with orichimaru and was gathering the parts for his inzagi tech, during the assult on the clan danzo could have taken shisui's right arm, and collected sharingan after the masacre. madara probably also stole some sharingan at that time. (thats possbily where they met last time, reference to chapter 574 page 12)
now having completed his task of killing of the clan itachi could have fulfiled shisui's request to remove his presence by using amateratsu to burn shisui's corpse, or possibly danzo took care of it after getting the arm. danzo might have done it to prevent anyone from finding out he took the arm in the first place.
this all conclueds to shisui actualy being dead and the only remaining source of his dna being the eye that danzo took and distroyed.
your thoughts?
okey, lets just do this the right way, with the manga as backup. I'm going to go trough the manga from the start and draw conclusions everytime of what we know at that point not including what comes in later chapters. as I continue with my explanation those conclusions will be addapted to include the new information every time?
first time we heard shisui's name spoken was way back, and most of the proof we need is right there.
I'm talking about chapter 222 page 4, this is a flashback of sasuke and itachi's time together befor the clan masacre. here itachi is confronted by 3 uchiha from the police force questioning him about why he was not present at the meeting and about the supposed suicide of uchiha shisui, by drowning in the nakano river. now how can they know that if they didn't find his body there?? at that time this suggests that his body was intact and could be identified. he was spoken of to be highly skilled so it is possible that at that moment the anbu decided to distroy his body so that shisiu's secrets could not be stolen, this is however unsure, it is equaly probable that his body was preserved. just not enough is known at that time. here also itachi becomes suspected of having killed shisui with the sole purpose of unlocking his MS.
much later (chapter 459 page 14) we discover that danzo is in possesion of shisui's right eye and arm when Ao uses his byakugan on him. so at that time it's obvious that danzo got to shisui's body befor it could be destroyed (at that time we did not yet know danzo took his eye befor his death, but I'll get to that) we also learn that shisui had one of the most powerfull genjutsu techniques known in the shinobi world and that he was a dangerous opponent to face.
a bit later (chapter 480 page 10) danzo outused his izanagi tech and got stabed by sasuke, this coused him to loose control over hashirama's cells and he had to separate his arm from his body, this grew into a tree, so it's byebye shisui's arm, all that remains of shisui now with danzo is his right eye. and danzo destroy's this eye as he dies to prevent madara from geting to the genjutsu (482 page 13) as far as we know now only shisui's right eye and right arm have been distroyed, the state of the rest of his body is unknown to us now.
later kabuto gives us more information. (chapter 520 page 14) he mentions that he could not find shisui's body but that his dna should still be in danzo's distroyed eye. now this is no conclusive evidence that his entire body actualy is distroyed but it's a pretty good bet, since kabuto managed to get to former kage, and monsters like those brothers with kyubi chakra. him not being able to get shisui's body gives it a realy big probability that the body was distroyed, but I will admit that it's possible that it's just well hidden, although I find it more probable that it was distroyed. also, kabuto mentioning shisui at that point proves that he wanted to have him in his collection, that he valued his power and was aware of his ability's and that he must have realy tried to get it.
and now we come to the final part, where itachi speaks of shisui and his history. chapter 550 page 9, here itachi reveals that he had shisui's left eye and was capable of influencing the genjutsu it can cast. by inplanting it in a crow and giving that to naruto with instructions that it should appear when itachi's MS is seen. on page 11 (the one posted by others here) it's made clear that shisui wanted itachi to have his left eye to protect konoha. to prevent conflict over his eye's he asked itachi to hide this eye from everyone and make it look like he distroyed it himself. also we are told that danzo already took his right eye at that time, and if you look at the first panel on that page you can see that he does still have his right arm. this proves that danzo got to shisui's body after he had died and that there actualy was a body. now with the tech being usless for another 10 years itachi distroy's the last eye to prevent further conflict over them.
as we know, in the events after the flashback of shisui's death itachi has the MS and prepares to take out the clan with the help of madara.
now my final conclusion about all this and how I think things stand, conclusions drawn from this research. this is how I think the events went chronologicaly.
it all starts with shisui unlocking his MS, how this is done is unknown but also irrelevant to the story. danzo got intel about his newfound abilitys and wanted them for his rise to power from the shadows. admit it, a genjutsu to control people in such a manner that they are unaware of it is perfect for his goals. so possibly danzo orderd shisui to give up one eye or he took it by force. I think it's the first, otherwhise he would not have left him alive and would have taken both eye's in order to prevent anyone else having the tech.
because of this shisui realised the danger his genjutsu could pose to the shinobi world if used in the wrong way and that he is going to be targeted by people who want to attain this power. so he decides to give his eye to itachi. he also wanted to show the world that his powers are no longer available so he commit 's suicide while making it look like he distroyed his eye's himself. itachi was probably present at this time to take possesion if shisui's eye and help him make it look like distroying the eyes. wheather or not itachi murderd shisui by his wish (Euthanasia) or if shisui did it himself (suicide) is unclear but whatever happend it must have been troumatising enough for itachi to activate his MS.
police force found the body and relocated it for investigation of the death and they accused itachi.
later danzo and the elders orderd itachi to take out the clan. itachi formed an aliance with madara to make it happen (hiding the truth about shisui's eye's) and together they took out the clan. possibly danzo was already working with orichimaru and was gathering the parts for his inzagi tech, during the assult on the clan danzo could have taken shisui's right arm, and collected sharingan after the masacre. madara probably also stole some sharingan at that time. (thats possbily where they met last time, reference to chapter 574 page 12)
now having completed his task of killing of the clan itachi could have fulfiled shisui's request to remove his presence by using amateratsu to burn shisui's corpse, or possibly danzo took care of it after getting the arm. danzo might have done it to prevent anyone from finding out he took the arm in the first place.
this all conclueds to shisui actualy being dead and the only remaining source of his dna being the eye that danzo took and distroyed.
your thoughts?
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