[Game] Naruto Shippuden Mafia Game #43

[Waluigi]

Some of you folks are new to these kinds of guessing games.

Evidence is hard to get, in its purest form there are no bits of evidence except the alignment of the dead when they are removed during day or night.

Hostility isn't necessary, nor is appeal to emotion.

I apologize if it sounds like I've been in mentor/coach/teacher mode all game-

Spoiler: aside

I genuinely love to teach and would have been a teacher if

You must be registered for see links

had been different. I was in college to become a teacher when that all went down. I went from being in college to not having a place to live.

I love welcoming new players to the game. I love using what time has given me (experience) to help others.

I am also a fair player in my own right, so I know how to dodge a night kill if I absolutely need to do so. I can ask to be protected, I can suggest I have no powers. If you're someone who does have powers, that's a useful skill, is it not? The only lie is the lie to the mafia team, who lie to us all game. It's "fair is fair" tactics to hide from them.

--------

I feel over the past couple of pages folks have allowed themselves to be wrapped up in the passion of the moment.

It's late, in the game, there's been nothing but townies dying so far. You're being accused, by several people. You're accusing several people along with others.

Being accused doesn't feel good. Because if you're mafia, you were doing so well, and now, town is after you suddenly. Even being mafia doesn't mean it's fun to be accused. It's like being rejected at the door, and not invited to your friend's birthday party.

You feel excluded even if that's the entire point of the game. And this is also true when you're town.

Now, you feel like everyone accusing you has to be a wolf, don't you?

Youve been obviously town all game. (me)
Youve had good reasons, logical reasons, why you were not killed in either of the first 2 murders (me)
Youre not solely responsible for the town eliminations so far. One of them, you said was town (me) and the other, everyone decided had to go basically as soon as I said they should.

So, when the accusation comes your way, it doesn't feel particularly fair, or well thought out.

But remember-

1. Some people accusing you don't know you are town, if you are. They don't know anyone is town, except themself.

2. Some people have a role-based duty to eliminate you, because

You must be registered for see links

. The evil spy. But it's only a part they're playing. They're actually nice people, playing a role on stage. (see 1 minute 40 seconds onward) I've often thought of the mafia team as an extension of the game host. They play the part of the monsters we're to slay, they volunteer to be beat up and destroyed so that town can win.

Spoiler: more

The game is asymmetrical. If townies all gang up on them with our votes, there's nothing they can do, its not like a chess game where both sides are evenly matched. It's more like a mate in 3 puzzle. And the only thing they can do is try to avoid mate. They're not in power, town is. And that's true until the moment town, by their own decisions and choices, loses the game.

Mafia cannot win by brute force, much the same way the losing side of a mate in 3 puzzle cannot win by brute force... but town can lose.

3. Remember, it's not personal. Think of this like a dungeons and dragons game, where we're playing characters. These characters represented by coins, or lego figures, or if we're lucky and can afford it, actual mini figurines.

Spoiler: dont want this wall to be too long for people to read.

We merely loan the characters we've been assigned by the game host. They go away after the game, regardless of alignment. And of course we want our characters to win, but that isn't the real point of the game. The point is for all of us to have fun, and make new friends, together. The game is just a vehicle for that to happen.

If I were a mafioso this game, my goal would be to make friends and entertain you, and also make the mystery harder to solve, because that's my goal, but I usually take the experience as, I'm the monster in the dungeons and dragons game that the heroes are meant to slay.

If they come after my character, they're not coming after me. And I am meant to throw myself into the part of being an interesting, terrifying, entertaining, memorable monster. And when I die, do so with a smile on my face, for that would be my function in the game. And if I should slay all the heroes, I am meant to salve their wounds after the game and say, sorry about that, it's only a game, and I hope we can still be friends.

That's my attitude, whenever I am mafia. And when I am town, like I am this game, I remember.... the persons I am accusing MIGHT in fact be innocent, and I look for reasons why they are, before I try to kill them. And if they're not, they have every right, and even a duty this game, to try to outmaneuver me and stop me from helping my fellow heroes win.

And after the game, we will be friends!

So I say all that to describe the game from my chair.

I think.... the mafia decided to use my wrong suspicion on Hunty, yesterday, to get an essentially free trip to the next day.

As soon as I laid out why other folks were town and how I couldn't clear Hunty, like 6 or 7 players all decided as one that this was the right action.

Notice that timing, and also what it means for my alignment. They were waiting for the town leader to guess wrong, and once I did, they moved in.

I know for a fact, the wolf team had to have been part of that reaction, due to the number of people involved.

As soon as they saw me, and other townies probably, voting for Hunty, they joined in. And that is because if there are townies voting for townies, all wolves have to do is wait, and they win the round.

But they joined in to make certain of it.

They did so because I'm town and I was in charge, sort of, by your own choices- I can act the part of a leader but I cant make everyone follow.

It's easy to throw the leader in the woodchipper if he is wrong in a guessing game, but the real culprits in this mystery are the people who waited for the leader to make a mistake, and capitalized. They might have moved off again later, but I feel the wolves hopped onto Hunty, at least 1 or 2 of them did.

How does this help you solve the mystery?

What role and alignment are you? Especially alignment.

If you're town, look at the others who joined me when I accused Hunty.

Which others can you suggest are town?

The remainder should contain a wolf.

That's thinking and using evidence and context clues to solve the game.

If instead, we sit and go "I demand evidence youre town" and we accuse each other on not very good reasons, we will lose.

And that's an okay result- it needs to be okay to lose a game.

The goal is to get a better result if we can, but losing is also allowed. If we can't solve and work together, it will also be the earned result.

------

The good thing about good advice, is that if the advice is actually good, it's true whether you currently trust me or not.

 

[Gutsy]

I have already claimed.


This post is incredibly wolfish. It is by accusing others that you can get a reaction/counter reply from them. This gives you a read on their alignment. You are basically saying with this post that you do not want to catch the wolves. Your accusations are also very vague and not targeted towards a specific person. The above post is a good example, who are you asking to claim?

You are also accusing other people and you say that is wolfish.

When I read your posts, I see a lot of fallacies which wolves tend to use a lot to derail the game.

See this, this is how you argue and discuss, and how you solve things. I completely agree with your take on this.

 

[Waluigi]

If folks are willing to look at the tactical/strategic situation yesterday and examine the folks who voted for Hunty with me, we can solve this mystery the thinking person's way.

That is not meant to be passive aggressive or a stealth insult, I merely mean it's a better way.

The alternative is not productive spiderman pointing at spiderman meme, style of play, and I don't think that's actually helpful.

It actually does nothing but destroy what trust and relationships and teamwork we've built with each other.

And it does the mafia's job for us.

 

[Waluigi]

I just did a whole speech and stuff.

Sorry about that.

Is there anyone willing to just sit and talk to me directly now, for a few minutes?

Won't take long.

 

[Gutsy]

@Kirikoe I see the logic on Rohan’s drop-off and share some of the unease. I’m a bit cautious about flipping a claimed protective outright—if Stargate’s claim holds, I’m leaning TBB > Rohan; if it doesn’t, Stargate probably makes the most sense. It’d also help to hear how Waluigi is thinking about both worlds so we’re not just trading vibes.

However my biggest belief and claim is still Big Boss. Who is now avoiding my questions.

 

[The Big Boss]

I have already claimed.


This post is incredibly wolfish. It is by accusing others that you can get a reaction/counter reply from them. This gives you a read on their alignment. You are basically saying with this post that you do not want to catch the wolves. Your accusations are also very vague and not targeted towards a specific person. The above post is a good example, who are you asking to claim?

You are also accusing other people and you say that is wolfish.

When I read your posts, I see a lot of fallacies which wolves tend to use a lot to derail the game.

Showing up a day late is sus.

but we need team work to solve the wolf problem.

day 3 and nothing too solid.

 

[The Big Boss]

As much as I don't trust Rohan, he is correct regarding 'The Big Boss.' His accusations have been all over the place, a lot of them are quite literally 'If you accuse me, I will accuse you.' Let's take 'Gutsy's' post for example, he highlighted a few good points here. I pointed out how his votes seem to be following the crowd quite easily, and they change easily; who he votes for doesn't really matter to him since they are normally directed towards townie.

He had labelled quite a few people as wolf before, and is making claims such as, 'if you are not with us, you are against us' < Not in these exact words but its the same essence. This isn't good as I pointed out for several reasons.

I never accused you, too my knowledge.

 

[Gutsy]

I never accused you, too my knowledge.

You accuse me without basis.

 

[The Big Boss]

@Kirikoe I see the logic on Rohan’s drop-off and share some of the unease. I’m a bit cautious about flipping a claimed protective outright—if Stargate’s claim holds, I’m leaning TBB > Rohan; if it doesn’t, Stargate probably makes the most sense. It’d also help to hear how Waluigi is thinking about both worlds so we’re not just trading vibes.

However my biggest belief and claim is still Big Boss. Who is now avoiding my questions.

I’m back,

you and your vendetta against Kirikoe doesn’t sway me.

Stargate doesn’t mind being killed, he said he would vote for himself.

 

[Gutsy]

Some of you folks are new to these kinds of guessing games.

Evidence is hard to get, in its purest form there are no bits of evidence except the alignment of the dead when they are removed during day or night.

Hostility isn't necessary, nor is appeal to emotion.

I apologize if it sounds like I've been in mentor/coach/teacher mode all game-

Spoiler: aside

I genuinely love to teach and would have been a teacher if

You must be registered for see links

had been different. I was in college to become a teacher when that all went down. I went from being in college to not having a place to live.

I love welcoming new players to the game. I love using what time has given me (experience) to help others.

I am also a fair player in my own right, so I know how to dodge a night kill if I absolutely need to do so. I can ask to be protected, I can suggest I have no powers. If you're someone who does have powers, that's a useful skill, is it not? The only lie is the lie to the mafia team, who lie to us all game. It's "fair is fair" tactics to hide from them.

--------

I feel over the past couple of pages folks have allowed themselves to be wrapped up in the passion of the moment.

It's late, in the game, there's been nothing but townies dying so far. You're being accused, by several people. You're accusing several people along with others.

Being accused doesn't feel good. Because if you're mafia, you were doing so well, and now, town is after you suddenly. Even being mafia doesn't mean it's fun to be accused. It's like being rejected at the door, and not invited to your friend's birthday party.

You feel excluded even if that's the entire point of the game. And this is also true when you're town.

Now, you feel like everyone accusing you has to be a wolf, don't you?

Youve been obviously town all game. (me)
Youve had good reasons, logical reasons, why you were not killed in either of the first 2 murders (me)
Youre not solely responsible for the town eliminations so far. One of them, you said was town (me) and the other, everyone decided had to go basically as soon as I said they should.

So, when the accusation comes your way, it doesn't feel particularly fair, or well thought out.

But remember-

1. Some people accusing you don't know you are town, if you are. They don't know anyone is town, except themself.

2. Some people have a role-based duty to eliminate you, because

You must be registered for see links

. The evil spy. But it's only a part they're playing. They're actually nice people, playing a role on stage. (see 1 minute 40 seconds onward) I've often thought of the mafia team as an extension of the game host. They play the part of the monsters we're to slay, they volunteer to be beat up and destroyed so that town can win.

Spoiler: more

The game is asymmetrical. If townies all gang up on them with our votes, there's nothing they can do, its not like a chess game where both sides are evenly matched. It's more like a mate in 3 puzzle. And the only thing they can do is try to avoid mate. They're not in power, town is. And that's true until the moment town, by their own decisions and choices, loses the game.

Mafia cannot win by brute force, much the same way the losing side of a mate in 3 puzzle cannot win by brute force... but town can lose.

3. Remember, it's not personal. Think of this like a dungeons and dragons game, where we're playing characters. These characters represented by coins, or lego figures, or if we're lucky and can afford it, actual mini figurines.

Spoiler: dont want this wall to be too long for people to read.

We merely loan the characters we've been assigned by the game host. They go away after the game, regardless of alignment. And of course we want our characters to win, but that isn't the real point of the game. The point is for all of us to have fun, and make new friends, together. The game is just a vehicle for that to happen.

If I were a mafioso this game, my goal would be to make friends and entertain you, and also make the mystery harder to solve, because that's my goal, but I usually take the experience as, I'm the monster in the dungeons and dragons game that the heroes are meant to slay.

If they come after my character, they're not coming after me. And I am meant to throw myself into the part of being an interesting, terrifying, entertaining, memorable monster. And when I die, do so with a smile on my face, for that would be my function in the game. And if I should slay all the heroes, I am meant to salve their wounds after the game and say, sorry about that, it's only a game, and I hope we can still be friends.

That's my attitude, whenever I am mafia. And when I am town, like I am this game, I remember.... the persons I am accusing MIGHT in fact be innocent, and I look for reasons why they are, before I try to kill them. And if they're not, they have every right, and even a duty this game, to try to outmaneuver me and stop me from helping my fellow heroes win.

And after the game, we will be friends!

So I say all that to describe the game from my chair.

I think.... the mafia decided to use my wrong suspicion on Hunty, yesterday, to get an essentially free trip to the next day.

As soon as I laid out why other folks were town and how I couldn't clear Hunty, like 6 or 7 players all decided as one that this was the right action.

Notice that timing, and also what it means for my alignment. They were waiting for the town leader to guess wrong, and once I did, they moved in.

I know for a fact, the wolf team had to have been part of that reaction, due to the number of people involved.

As soon as they saw me, and other townies probably, voting for Hunty, they joined in. And that is because if there are townies voting for townies, all wolves have to do is wait, and they win the round.

But they joined in to make certain of it.

They did so because I'm town and I was in charge, sort of, by your own choices- I can act the part of a leader but I cant make everyone follow.

It's easy to throw the leader in the woodchipper if he is wrong in a guessing game, but the real culprits in this mystery are the people who waited for the leader to make a mistake, and capitalized. They might have moved off again later, but I feel the wolves hopped onto Hunty, at least 1 or 2 of them did.

How does this help you solve the mystery?

What role and alignment are you? Especially alignment.

If you're town, look at the others who joined me when I accused Hunty.

Which others can you suggest are town?

The remainder should contain a wolf.

That's thinking and using evidence and context clues to solve the game.

If instead, we sit and go "I demand evidence youre town" and we accuse each other on not very good reasons, we will lose.

And that's an okay result- it needs to be okay to lose a game.

The goal is to get a better result if we can, but losing is also allowed. If we can't solve and work together, it will also be the earned result.

------

The good thing about good advice, is that if the advice is actually good, it's true whether you currently trust me or not.

I’m good with approaching this the “thinking way” via the Hunty wagon, late joiners after your push are where wolves often park once momentum’s safe. For my part, suspicion on The Big Boss keeps rising: naked wolf lists, “join us” herding, self-certifying town, and the “kill me to unify” AtE without receipts reads agenda over solve. On Stargate, I don’t love flipping a claimed protective unless the claim breaks; if it holds, my order is TBB > Rohan; if it collapses, Stargate becomes the practical vote.

 

[Rohan]

Showing up a day late is sus.

but we need team work to solve the wolf problem.

day 3 and nothing too solid.

I have posted in the first 24 hours of this game.

I disagree. There has been a lot of good discussion in the previous 24 hours.

See what I mean when you are deflecting and ignoring the contributions of the other town members.

 

[Gutsy]

I’m back,

you and your vendetta against Kirikoe doesn’t sway me.

Stargate doesn’t mind being killed, he said he would vote for himself.

I dont have a vendetta against kirikoe, i literally buried the hatchet and i am siding with him what in gods world are you smoking?

 

[The Big Boss]

You accuse me without basis.

Give me your top 3 wolf suspects not including me.

it would build better trust.

 

[Gutsy]

I’m back,

you and your vendetta against Kirikoe doesn’t sway me.

Stargate doesn’t mind being killed, he said he would vote for himself.

This is a sign of someone who hasnt read the thread and followed the discussion and events.

 

[The Big Boss]

I dont have a vendetta against kirikoe, i literally buried the hatchet and i am siding with him what in gods world are you smoking?

So believe Kiri is town now ?

 

[Gutsy]

I have posted in the first 24 hours of this game.

I disagree. There has been a lot of good discussion in the previous 24 hours.

See what I mean when you are deflecting and ignoring the contributions of the other town members.

This man The Big Boss is on some weed not reading what people say or follow on.

 

[Waluigi]

My role is like a JOAT, aka jack of all trades.

At the start of the game I had a 1 time bodyguard power. Bodyguards can protect someone else, but they die, instead, so it's weaker than a doctor.

I felt, if I was being protected by a doctor, that would negate it. So I protected stargate18 myself, just in case he really was a doctor. Stargate18 was not attacked, because apparently, protecting me wouldn't have done anything, I still would have died if stargate was shot directly. In 17 years, I've never been a bodyguard, so i didn't know how they worked.

I also had a 1 time motion detect power. This allows you to see if someone visited someone else, or if someone visited your target. In other words, it tells you if there was activity that night, either someone using a power on your target, or your target using a power. It's a very weak kind of investigation. So I didn't use it.

And I also had a 1 time tracker power. This allows you to follow someone, and see where they ended up.

I used this one on night 2, last night. Which is why I'm asking AnimePigeon to claim what they did, to everyone.

If they are being honest and truthful, I can verify their location last night. If they tell a lie, I will know.

Why am I out of shots?

Because last night, my motion detect was stolen from me. I have nothing else.

 

[The Big Boss]

So believe Kiri is town now ?

So you Believe kiri is town now ?

typo

 

[Rohan]

Give me your top 3 wolf suspects not including me.

it would build better trust.

Why should you not be included in the suspects list?

 

[Gutsy]

Alright @Waluigi and everyone else. I been reading and looking back at everything. I will generally give my read on things.

Town:
AnimePigeon: Pushed back on the easy momentum and specifically shaded ekko and the big boss, instead of just riding along. To me that feels more like trying to solve the game.

Stargate: claimed doctor and acknowledged by you Waluigi, took alot of heat for it. I would treat as town for now.

Kirikoe: Actively directing votes and explaining priorities. His reads feel consistent even if they are wrong.

Wolf:
The big boss: on both town eliminations (Rej and Hunty) and openly decided they wanted future day kills to be stargate and rohan.

Rohan: Also voted on both eliminations, the hop on to hunty is thin (posted very less and are wolfy) and opportunistic following the herd.

Ekkologix: Day one on Rej, Day two heavily drove Stargate and Hunty as paired mislynch pool. The result flipped town, and it reads as easy framing after night one kills. Pattern fits scum pushing low resistance wagons.

Unsure:
Waluigi: Big driver of consolidation, deliberately avoided being on both mis eliminatyions, instead put presasure on stargate. Cold be town shepherd or scum steerring outcome without fingerprints. Keep in mind.

Naomi: Low footprint in what we currently see here, no alignment signbals whatsoever.

------

If it is up to me this would be my focus and elimination order:
The Big Boss -> Rohan -> Ekkologix (wolf pool).
If one of htem flips town, I would reassess Waluigi.


That is my general read of the current situation.

@The Big Boss if you had read this you would have seen what i thought but you clearly didnt read the thread.