[Predictions] One Piece Manga Chapter 961 Discussion and 962 Predictions

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"The Mountain God Incident"

One Piece Manga Chapter 961 Discussion and 962 Predictions

Discuss One Piece Manga 961 here and predict the next chapter, One Piece Manga 962

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chopstickchakra

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I don't dislike the idea Denjiro is Koushiro but my question is why did he leave? I'd understand if he left and took Momo's sister with him but Momo's sister stayed as did the rest of the scabbards who weren't sent forward so I wonder why Denjiro would have left? Maybe to fulfill Oden's ideals and leave the country? Idk?
 

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I don't dislike the idea Denjiro is Koushiro but my question is why did he leave? I'd understand if he left and took Momo's sister with him but Momo's sister stayed as did the rest of the scabbards who weren't sent forward so I wonder why Denjiro would have left? Maybe to fulfill Oden's ideals and leave the country? Idk?
Well neither Shutenmaru, Inuarashi nor Nekomamushi stayed with Hiyori. In fact they didn't even seem to realize she was still alive. When Toki sent Kinemon and co to the future, the only one who remained was Kawamatsu. This probably means their group had already been separated at that point in time and were unaware of what happened in Kuri Castle when it was set aflame.

Now Oda already confirmed that a group of former Wano citizens ended up in East Blue several decades prior to the start of the series and even though it hasn't been explicitly confirmed, there's little doubt that they founded Shimotsuki Village (Zoro's hometown).

As I see it there are three possible scenarios for the chronology:

1 - Tenguyama said that 50 years ago Shimotsuki Kouzaburou, a famous craftsman who created Enma and Wado Ichimonji, left Wano illegally. He ended up in East Blue and founded the village were his descendants still reside.

2 - Denjiro/Koujiro fled Wano 20 years ago, ended up in East Blue and founded Shimotsuki Village. Tenguyama spoke in singular about Kouzaburou, so it's not clear whether he left alone or in group, but in the case of Denjiro it's highly plausible he was not alone. I can imagine that there were several people who rather went into exile than being ruled over by Orochi/Kaidou, so they went along with Denjiro.

3 - Combination of the previous two: Kouzaburou founded the village (which makes sense given its name) and Wano refugees fled to it when Orochi and Kaidou took over Wano. That makes a lot of sense, only how could they have known where to go? Wano is an isolated country and it's a bit of a stretch to think that they ended up by coincidence in Shimotsuki Village. However, if that sword on Denjiro's back is indeed Wado, it might have been the means he used to track down Kouzaburou.

There is one big issue though with the whole Denjiro = Koujiro hypothesis. In chapter 0 (the one meant as an introduction to the Strong World movie) they show multiple familiar characters right after Roger's execution, including Koujiro holding his newborn daughter Kuina and his wife while they are talking about the dojo. I'm not entirely certain here about the chronology, but I think the execution happened 22 years ago, while Orochi's coup 20 years ago. It also makes sense that the latter happened after the former. Which means Koujiro was already in East Blue before the coup.

Then again it's not stated explicitly that that scene happened in East Blue and could have easily occurred in Wano. It's one of those things you assume as it's simply logical, but exactly because of that it allows the author to provide an alternative interpretation later on in the story. Which immediately also provides an additional reason as why Denjiro might have fled: to save his family.
 

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Well neither Shutenmaru, Inuarashi nor Nekomamushi stayed with Hiyori. In fact they didn't even seem to realize she was still alive. When Toki sent Kinemon and co to the future, the only one who remained was Kawamatsu. This probably means their group had already been separated at that point in time and were unaware of what happened in Kuri Castle when it was set aflame.

Now Oda already confirmed that a group of former Wano citizens ended up in East Blue several decades prior to the start of the series and even though it hasn't been explicitly confirmed, there's little doubt that they founded Shimotsuki Village (Zoro's hometown).

As I see it there are three possible scenarios for the chronology:

1 - Tenguyama said that 50 years ago Shimotsuki Kouzaburou, a famous craftsman who created Enma and Wado Ichimonji, left Wano illegally. He ended up in East Blue and founded the village were his descendants still reside.

2 - Denjiro/Koujiro fled Wano 20 years ago, ended up in East Blue and founded Shimotsuki Village. Tenguyama spoke in singular about Kouzaburou, so it's not clear whether he left alone or in group, but in the case of Denjiro it's highly plausible he was not alone. I can imagine that there were several people who rather went into exile than being ruled over by Orochi/Kaidou, so they went along with Denjiro.

3 - Combination of the previous two: Kouzaburou founded the village (which makes sense given its name) and Wano refugees fled to it when Orochi and Kaidou took over Wano. That makes a lot of sense, only how could they have known where to go? Wano is an isolated country and it's a bit of a stretch to think that they ended up by coincidence in Shimotsuki Village. However, if that sword on Denjiro's back is indeed Wado, it might have been the means he used to track down Kouzaburou.

There is one big issue though with the whole Denjiro = Koujiro hypothesis. In chapter 0 (the one meant as an introduction to the Strong World movie) they show multiple familiar characters right after Roger's execution, including Koujiro holding his newborn daughter Kuina and his wive while they are talking about the dojo. I'm not entirely certain here about the chronology, but I think the execution happened 22 years ago, while Orochi's coup 20 years ago. It also makes sense that the latter happened after the former. Which means Koujiro was already in East Blue before the coup.

Then again it's not stated explicitly that that scene happened in East Blue and could have easily occurred in Wano. It's one of those things you assume as it's simply logical, but exactly because of that it allows the author to provide an alternative interpretation later on in the story. Which immediately also provides an additional reason as why Denjiro might have fled: to save his family.
Shutenmaru stayed in Wano though. And idk why but for some reason I was thinking Ino and Neko weren't original 9 scabbards but friends of Oden who he met during travels with Roger and were filling in now. Either way them going back to Zou where they're from makes sense, at least more sense than a person born in Wano leaving. Denjiro would be the only of the Wano scabbards to leave.

If it turns out to be it's not like I'll call bull but it just seems odd to me right now that the scabbards(bar Ino and Neko) would leave Wano.
 

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- Some good character development for Oden, showing him taking the blame for all of it instead of Kinemon receiving it. Though he technically didn't start it. Suppose a lot of the other things Oden is infamous for were for noble reasons, too.

- Can't believe Oden is 18 there, though. Dude looks like a older.

- Still sticking with the theory that Kinemon will become Oden's double! Perhaps when he leaves for his voyages, that's when Kinemon would have to step in from time to time.
Regardless, something that further supports this theory is when Kinemon disguised himself as Doflamingo. He obviously looked nothing like him, but he fooled Gladius.
 

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Shutenmaru stayed in Wano though. And idk why but for some reason I was thinking Ino and Neko weren't original 9 scabbards but friends of Oden who he met during travels with Roger and were filling in now. Either way them going back to Zou where they're from makes sense, at least more sense than a person born in Wano leaving. Denjiro would be the only of the Wano scabbards to leave.

If it turns out to be it's not like I'll call bull but it just seems odd to me right now that the scabbards(bar Ino and Neko) would leave Wano.
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This is the entire group. That Ino and Neko were just 'friends' is highly unlikely. The reality that Ino and Neko for 20 years hated each other so much that they would try to kill each other on sight because of what happened to Oden and that they risked annihilation purely to save Raizo, speaks volumes. I mean this is really not an institution that has to have nine members, but they were called like because they were with nine. How they became part of the group seems of little importance.

That Ino and Neko had another home they could return too, is not really that important either as in the end there was no overall plan they decided on, at least not that we know of. There were rumors, surely, but I think Shutemnaru described that as trying to catch the shadow of a ghost or something along those lines. In the end each individual had to decide for themselves what they were going to do. Based on what we know Ino and Neko were already separated from the group in Kuri castle. Oden was dead, Toki was dead, Kinemon end co disappeared and Hiyori was presumed dead.

As a member of the Nine, they were definitely high on Orochi's & Kaidou's hit-list. If caught it either meant joining him, imprisonment or death. So if Denjiro really had a family, choosing exile is a rather smart choice, especially because in hindsight he lived a rather peaceful live in East Blue (with the exception of Kuina's death, I reckon the theory that she was murdered is going to go through a resurgence). That definitely beats the lives Kawamtsu's, Hiyori's and Shutenmaru's lived in the mean time.
 

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This is the entire group. That Ino and Neko were just 'friends' is highly unlikely. The reality that Ino and Neko for 20 years hated each other so much that they would try to kill each other on sight because of what happened to Oden and that they risked annihilation purely to save Raizo, speaks volumes. I mean this is really not an institution that has to have nine members, but they were called like because they were with nine. How they became part of the group seems of little importance.

That Ino and Neko had another home they could return too, is not really that important either as in the end there was no overall plan they decided on, at least not that we know of. There were rumors, surely, but I think Shutemnaru described that as trying to catch the shadow of a ghost or something along those lines. In the end each individual had to decide for themselves what they were going to do. Based on what we know Ino and Neko were already separated from the group in Kuri castle. Oden was dead, Toki was dead, Kinemon end co disappeared and Hiyori was presumed dead.

As a member of the Nine, they were definitely high on Orochi's & Kaidou's hit-list. If caught it either meant joining him, imprisonment or death. So if Denjiro really had a family, choosing exile is a rather smart choice, especially because in hindsight he lived a rather peaceful live in East Blue (with the exception of Kuina's death, I reckon the theory that she was murdered is going to go through a resurgence). That definitely beats the lives Kawamtsu's, Hiyori's and Shutenmaru's lived in the mean time.
Yeah I see they're Scabbards now idk why I wasn't making that connection, I guess I was figuring they met Oden through Roger when he joined but it seems I had it backwards and they met Roger because they were with Oden. I agree how they joined isn't important.

As for the plan weren't all the remaining scabbards made aware of the plan to avenge Oden?

The family reason makes sense. It does seem a but out of character for people from Wano to me though but whatever.
 

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Yeah I see they're Scabbards now idk why I wasn't making that connection, I guess I was figuring they met Oden through Roger when he joined but it seems I had it backwards and they met Roger because they were with Oden. I agree how they joined isn't important.

As for the plan weren't all the remaining scabbards made aware of the plan to avenge Oden?

The family reason makes sense. It does seem a but out of character for people from Wano to me though but whatever.
Funny part is that OP wiki hasn't identified yet the person left of Denjiro, which should be Kikunojo purely following logical reasoning xd

As I said there was some vague conception, but I sincerely doubt that there was anything elaborate and concrete + their group had been scattered. The behavior shown by several Scabbards underlines that:

- Shutenmaru originally tried to prepare an army, however he pretty much had given up hope and just spent his time robbing. It took quite the effort to convince him to take back up arms.

- Kawamatsu was trying to procure weapons, but as I remember he also had suicidal thoughts. His and Shutenmaru's actions weren't really synchronized either.

- Ino & Neko spent 20 years avoiding and hating each other.

That no one in the present knows where Denjiro is, is also is a good indicator. If he was in Wano, by now he should have realized something was about the occur. Considering he hasn't been involved in anything that either means he can't act, doesn't want to act or he is simply not in Wano. There other possibilities, but story-wise it pretty much comes down to these three.

And don't forget that Oden's life long mission was to open the borders of Wano to the outside world and that Denjiro is an orphan who seemed to have little respect for the entire adult Wano-population other than Oden. So he seemed to be rather free-spirited and disconnected from normal Wano society.

In the end this is all based on the assumption Denjiro = Koujiro. If he isn't, well then all of this is moot. However, if they are the same character then I think it's important to keep in the back of your mind that this was most likely not planned from the start. Oda foreshadows a lot of stuff, but I don't believe for one second he planned this out all the way back when the character was first introduced. Which means he had to fit everything we already knew into the present story arc.
 

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Funny part is that OP wiki hasn't identified yet the person left of Denjiro, which should be Kikunojo purely following logical reasoning xd

As I said there was some vague conception, but I sincerely doubt that there was anything elaborate and concrete + their group had been scattered. The behavior shown by several Scabbards underlines that:

- Shutenmaru originally tried to prepare an army, however he pretty much had given up hope and just spent his time robbing. It took quite the effort to convince him to take back up arms.

- Kawamatsu was trying to procure weapons, but as I remember he also had suicidal thoughts. His and Shutenmaru's actions weren't really synchronized either.

- Ino & Neko spent 20 years avoiding and hating each other.

That no one in the present knows where Denjiro is, is also is a good indicator. If he was in Wano, by now he should have realized something was about the occur. Considering he hasn't been involved in anything that either means he can't act, doesn't want to act or he is simply not in Wano. There other possibilities, but story-wise it pretty much comes down to these three.

And don't forget that Oden's life long mission was to open the borders of Wano to the outside world and that Denjiro is an orphan who seemed to have little respect for the entire adult Wano-population other than Oden. So he seemed to be rather free-spirited and disconnected from normal Wano society.

In the end this is all based on the assumption Denjiro = Koujiro. If he isn't, well then all of this is moot. However, if they are the same character then I think it's important to keep in the back of your mind that this was most likely not planned from the start. Oda foreshadows a lot of stuff, but I don't believe for one second he planned this out all the way back when the character was first introduced. Which means he had to fit everything we already knew into the present story arc.
What if Denjiro turns out to be the witching hour boy?
 

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What if Denjiro turns out to be the witching hour boy?
Assuming Yasuie really did lie about being Witching Hour Boy; well then Denjiro definitely should know what has been going on. The fact that he was able to repeatedly pull off this stunt of being Witching Hour Boy indicates he's very familiar with how the capital operates in the present time. So when someone who he knows very well like Yasuie gets executed for having pretended to be Witching Hour Boy along along with the countless rumours that have been going around (not to mention the cryptic papers), there's little doubt he should be aware that Kinemon and co are back and are planning to stir things up.

Which begs the question then as why he hasn't revealed himself yet?
 

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Assuming Yasuie really did lie about being Witching Hour Boy; well then Denjiro definitely should know what has been going on. The fact that he was able to repeatedly pull off this stunt of being Witching Hour Boy indicates he's very familiar with how the capital operates in the present time. So when someone who he knows very well like Yasuie gets executed for having pretended to be Witching Hour Boy along along with the countless rumours that have been going around (not to mention the cryptic papers), there's little doubt he should be aware that Kinemon and co are back and are planning to stir things up.

Which begs the question then as why he hasn't revealed himself yet?
Well Denjiro will either be a "new" character that has yet to be seen or an "old" character that we have already seen.

If he is going to be a new character then the Witching Hour Boy is the safest bet. If he is going to be an old character then I guess for now Koushiro is the safest bet. (I am not really a fan of Koushiro being Denjiro because to me it feels like Oda is just looking for random reasons to connect Zoro to Wano.)
 
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