US not allowing trans people...

[~WastelandSociety~]

Yeah, it still doesnt change the fact that gender dysphoria is a mental illness, thats not even a scientific study just an opinion on what it means. Lots of people are only temporarily 'transgender' and that usualy results from hormone inbalance during times of growth. And u have it wrong about
"Being transgender when allowed to live a gendered experience consistent with one's own internal understanding of oneself causes neither suffering nor a reduced ability to function in ordinary life." The amount of transexuals that arent satisfied are staggering as they believe the grass will be greener on the other side. Its impossible to become the other *** and all that occurs is either a more masculine female or feminine male. Its also clear it is a mental illness simply because it goes against what is naturally occuring.
Definition of mental illness = A condition which causes serious disorder in a person's behaviour or thinking.

Definition of dysphoria = A state of unease or generalized dissatisfaction with life.

You must be registered for see links

"...


It now appears that our long-ago decision was a wise one. A 2011 study at the Karolinska Institute in Sweden produced the most illuminating results yet regarding the transgendered, evidence that should give advocates pause. The long-term study—up to 30 years—followed 324 people who had ***- reassignment surgery. The study revealed that beginning about 10 years after having the surgery, the transgendered began to experience increasing mental difficulties. Most shockingly, their suicide mortality rose almost 20-fold above the comparable nontransgender population. This disturbing result has as yet no explanation but probably reflects the growing sense of isolation reported by the aging transgendered after surgery. The high suicide rate certainly challenges the surgery prescription.

...

At the heart of the problem is confusion over the nature of the transgendered. "*** change" is biologically impossible. People who undergo ***-reassignment surgery do not change from men to women or vice versa. Rather, they become feminized men or masculinized women. Claiming that this is civil-rights matter and encouraging surgical intervention is in reality to collaborate with and promote a mental disorder."

You must be registered for see links

 

[Misо]

That's a very vague statement with no citations.

APA isn't the only organization, it's just the biggest and most prominent in the U.S.

Even the British Psychology Society says this. It's the most prominent psychological organization in the U.K.

Are they not to be trusted as well?

You must be registered for see links

Want to explain to me why some doctors believe theyre ill, while others dont? Even after the research done, and the fact that transgenders are 20x more likely to kill themselves, how can you still deny the simple fact that they're mentally ill?

Evidence?

This is just one of many.

You must be registered for see links

 

[Lightbringer]

Want to explain to me why some doctors believe theyre ill, while others dont?

You must be registered for see links

You've named one doctor....among millions who disagree with him.

It's not a 50/50 debate. It's more like 99/1. Majority of scientists do not see being transgender as a mental illness.

That's like asking me why some "scientists" think the Climate Change is a hoax or why some "scientists" believe the Earth is flat?

I don't have an answer as to why, but they are wrong based on what the majority consensus and on the data that is available.


You're taking one man's word over what major prominent organizations around the world say on the matter simply because it goes against your beliefs.

If the world was that simple, we would all be ignorant.

 

[Misо]

Except they aren't. You say this like it's inherent to being transgender when that isn't case, and there are many who don't experience any more distress than the average non-transgendered person when they have access to the treatment.

Yes it IS inherent to beng transgender. You actually think people who constantly hate their bodies would be happy? Not everyone has access to the treatment, buddy.

When did I say anything about treatment being covered by healthcare? Make sure you're replying to right post next time, buddy boy.

You said the treatment is an obstacle, and I assumed you meant the fact that it isnt covered by healthcare, and is pricey. I used this amazing thing called "Reading between the lines"

You've named one doctor....among millions who disagree with him.

It's not a 50/50 debate. It's more like 99/1. Majority of scientists do not see being transgender as a mental illness.

That's like asking me why some "scientists" think the Climate Change is a hoax or why some "scientists" believe the Earth is flat?

I don't have an answer as to why, but they are wrong based on what the majority consensus and on the data that is available.


You're taking one man's word over what major prominent organizations around the world say on the matter simply because it goes against your beliefs.

If the world was that simple, we would all be ignorant.

Did you even read the article?

 

[Punk Hazard]

"...


It now appears that our long-ago decision was a wise one. A 2011 study at the Karolinska Institute in Sweden produced the most illuminating results yet regarding the transgendered, evidence that should give advocates pause. The long-term study—up to 30 years—followed 324 people who had ***- reassignment surgery. The study revealed that beginning about 10 years after having the surgery, the transgendered began to experience increasing mental difficulties. Most shockingly, their suicide mortality rose almost 20-fold above the comparable nontransgender population. This disturbing result has as yet no explanation but probably reflects the growing sense of isolation reported by the aging transgendered after surgery. The high suicide rate certainly challenges the surgery prescription.

Key phrase here. While this most certainly warrants more study and research to find the cause, or as precise an estimation as possible, it doesn't actually warrant being transgender in of itself as the reason. Even the guess cited as the most probable is an external, social one.

Yes it IS inherent to beng transgender. You actually think people who constantly hate their bodies would be happy? Not everyone has access to the treatment, buddy.

Access to treatment is widespread enough, however, that isn't classified as a treatment. It's not inherent to being transgender because you don't automatically feel that way 24/7 by being transgender. Satisfaction is indeed possible.

You said the treatment is an obstacle, and I assumed you meant the fact that it isnt covered by healthcare, and is pricey. I used this amazing thing called "Reading between the lines"

No, no I did not. I said being unable to receive treatment is an obstacle. Not once did I say ANYTHING that assigned that blame to it not being covered by healthcare. That wasn't reading between lines, that was pure assuming. You know what they say about when you assume.

 

[Clown World]

.

You don't understand what "disruption of day-to-day life" fully entails. Things like schizophrenia or depression or OCD are classified as disorders because they actually prevent you from going through day to day routines that are vital. If the distress is to the point where it's affecting your health, your ability to complete work, your interactions with others, to a certain threshold, then it's a disorder.

Gender dysphoria* isn't classified as a disorder because it doesn't inherently lead to such a level of distress. It can lead to actual disorders like depression, but not every case reaches that point. Because many, many people are capable of doing through their days with just as much or less distress as people without it that are considered disorder-free, it's not considered a disorder.


Not inherent to being transsexual though. Not only does correlation not mean causation, I doubt these are even associated enough to assert a claim like this. Unless you have evidence that being transsexual inherently makes you a pedophile.


Same thing said about being transsexual leading to depression for this. I'm certain that suicidal tendencies in transsexuals, like depression, are the resulting of outside factors acting as obstacles towards treatment towards being transsexual, like hormone therapy, therapy, and surgery.


Sounds juvenile. Maybe if "not man" wasn't your definition of "Weak" you'd have a clearer view.



So gender dysphoria isn't even being transgender/transsexual, it's when you're forced into being unable to pursue therapy, hormone therapy, surgeries, or even just dressing as the *** you feel more comfortable as. Even more reason as to why classifying transsexuals as a mental disorder, since the dysphoria isn't interchangeable with being transsexual.

Looks like the issue here isn't whether or not gender dysphoria is a disorder, it's that the term "gender dysphoria" is being falsely attributed here.

Edit asterisk: With the info provided by Lightbringer, "gender dysphoria" in my post should just be "identifying as transsexual."

the lgbt community make up 40% of the sexual assaults, you say it doesnt affect your day to day life but transgender men will never be completely men and vice versa. All those treatments are becoming more common and im farily certain it has to do with the dissatisfaction that comes once you mutilate your genitals, since you are neither fully man nor female. Are you implying that women are as strong and physically built as men? That is clearly fallacious simply because it is how we have evolved that way.

 

[Misо]

Yes, I actually did, and nothing in the article implies that the mental disorder is inherent with being transgender. All that they've stated was what we all already know; that the occurrence of stress, depression, and suicidal tendencies are more common in transgenders. And as others organizations have mentioned, that all stems from nonacceptance and discrimination within society.

The real question is, did you read the article? Because nothing in it contradicts what I have said.

>Blames Society for transgenders hating the body they were born in

... K

 

[Clown World]

Gender Dysphoria is not synonymous with being a transgender.

The APA is a scientific/psychological organization. So, no, it's not just an opinion.

Your problem is that you're using transgender and gender dysphoria interchangeably.

"Transgender people are people who have a gender identity or gender expression that differs from their assigned ***. "
Gender dysphoria is the state of dysphoria the diagnosed person might experience as a result of the mismatch between the gender label they were assigned to at birth and the gender identity they think they hold. In most of these cases, the assigned gender do not match the person's gender identity, and the person is identified as a transgender".
they are essentially the same thing and it IS a mental illness.

 

[Lightbringer]

>Blames Society for transgenders hating the body they were born in

... K

I don't see how hard is it to believe?

If say, everyone calls you ugly, then you'll start to hate yourself.

If people ridicule you for being fat, then you'll start to hate yourself.

If people say being gay is a sin against god, then you'll start to hate yourself.

If people say that transgenders are abominations, then you'll start to hate yourself.


Are you suggesting that there is no difference in the mental impact between living in an environment where you are discriminated against vs one where you are accepted?

 

[Punk Hazard]

the lgbt community make up 40% of the sexual assaults

If members of the LGBT community makes up 40% of assaults, who makes up the other 60%?

you say it doesnt affect your day to day life but transgender men will never be completely men and vice versa. All those treatments are becoming more common and im farily certain it has to do with the dissatisfaction that comes once you mutilate your genitals, since you are neither fully man nor female.

Hence why there is therapy/hormone therapy that comes along with it.

Are you implying that women are as strong and physically built as men? That is clearly fallacious simply because it is how we have evolved that way.

When did I imply this?

>Blames Society for transgenders hating the body they were born in

... K

Societal discrimination plays a large role in the distress they experience.

"Transgender people are people who have a gender identity or gender expression that differs from their assigned ***. "
Gender dysphoria is the state of dysphoria the diagnosed person might experience as a result of the mismatch between the gender label they were assigned to at birth and the gender identity they think they hold. In most of these cases, the assigned gender do not match the person's gender identity, and the person is identified as a transgender".
they are essentially the same thing and it IS a mental illness.

Gender dysphoria and being transgender aren't quite the same thing. Gender dysphoria is the distress that occurs when a transgender person experiences obstacles towards pursuing means to express themselves as the gender they identify as.

Gender dysphoria only happens in transgender people, but not all transgender people have gender dysphoria; it is possible to be transgender and move past it.

 

[Clown World]

Gender Dysphoria is not synonymous with being a transgender.

The APA is a scientific/psychological organization. So, no, it's not just an opinion.

If members of the LGBT community makes up 40% of assaults, who makes up the other 60%?


Hence why there is therapy/hormone therapy that comes along with it.



When did I imply this?

"while only being 3% of the population" pls... hormone therapy never makes u fully male/female as our brains are wired differently and gender is not merely a social construct. "Sounds juvenile. Maybe if "not man" wasn't your definition of "Weak" you'd have a clearer view."

 

[Lightbringer]

"Transgender people are people who have a gender identity or gender expression that differs from their assigned ***. "
Gender dysphoria is the state of dysphoria the diagnosed person might experience as a result of the mismatch between the gender label they were assigned to at birth and the gender identity they think they hold. In most of these cases, the assigned gender do not match the person's gender identity, and the person is identified as a transgender".
they are essentially the same thing and it IS a mental illness.

And is that your definition of what gender dysphoria is or a professional one?

Essentially the same? Is that your professional opinion?

 

[Misо]

I don't see how hard is it to believe?

If say, everyone calls you ugly, then you'll start to hate yourself.

If people ridicule you for being fat, then you'll start to hate yourself.

If people say being gay is a sin against god, then you'll start to hate yourself.

If people say that transgenders are abominations, then you'll start to hate yourself.


Are you suggesting that there is no difference in the mental impact between living in an environment where you are discriminated against vs one where you are accepted?

Lmao the **** are you saying?

Transgender people hate the genitals they were born with. THEY want to be the opposite gender. This has nothing to do with Society.

 

[Punk Hazard]

"while only being 3% of the population" pls...

But by your logic, cis heterosexuals have it worse due to making up a larger percentage of sexul assault.

Edit: Also, this isn't even an inherent distress that comes with being transsexual. The argument that society mistreating a group of people based on a characteristic they share means that characteristic is negative is a grievous fallacy.

hormone therapy never makes u fully male/female as our brains are wired differently and gender is not merely a social construct.

When making a distinction between gender and ***, yeah it is.

"Sounds juvenile. Maybe if "not man" wasn't your definition of "Weak" you'd have a clearer view."

This wasn't me saying that all women are as strong as all women or denying that men are genetically built stronger than women, this was me saying the difference doesn't matter. You speak as though a man not being masculine makes him less of a person, which is juvenile.

 

[Lightbringer]

Lmao the **** are you saying?

Transgender people hate the genitals they were born with. THEY want to be the opposite gender. This has nothing to do with Society.

So you're just going to go deny the research and major consensus of psychologists around the world just because you can't accept that it contradicts your beliefs?

Hate is a strong word. And you're just making things up as that is not true.

 

[Misо]

So you're just going to go deny the research and major consensus of psychologists around the world just because you can't accept that it contradicts your beliefs?

Hate is a strong word. And you're just making things up as that is not true.

I didn't make anything up, I only quoted what was said in the article, which you claimed to have "read".

If you want to deny facts and research, then go to talk to someone else with the same level of ignorance as you.

 

[Clown World]

But by your logic, cis heterosexuals have it worse due to making up a larger percentage of sexul assault.

Edit: Also, this isn't even an inherent distress that comes with being transsexual. The argument that society mistreating a group of people based on a characteristic they share means that characteristic is negative is a grievous fallacy.

When making a distinction between gender and ***, yeah it is.


This wasn't me saying that all women are as strong as all women or denying that men are genetically built stronger than women, this was me saying the difference doesn't matter. You speak as though a man not being masculine makes him less of a person, which is juvenile.

[1] Are you serious? despite making up only 3% they commit almost half of the assaults, "have it worst" i assume you mean as victims? yea thats true, if you mean as perpertrators thats simply because they are a larger percentage of
the population

[2]gender = ***, prove to me it doesnt, biology doesnt lie.

[3]In terms of the military it does, the standards shouldnt be genderfied simply because women cant compete with male tests

 

[Misо]

But by your logic, cis heterosexuals have it worse due to making up a larger percentage of sexul assault.

Did you not understand a single thing he said?

LGBT commit 40% of sexual assaults, while being only 3% of the population.

 

[Punk Hazard]

[1] Are you serious? despite making up only 3% they commit almost half of the assaults, "have it worst" i assume you mean as victims? yea thats true, if you mean as perpertrators thats simply because they are a larger percentage of
the population

Oh you're referring to being perpetrators? I suggest you take a gander at "correlation doesn't equal causation" then.

[2]gender = ***, prove to me it doesnt, biology doesnt lie.

Just look up the definition of "gender." As I clearly said in my post, when the terms are approached with their distinctions(***=biological traits; gender=expression of ***), then yes, they are not the same thing. Informally they are used interchangeably. Formally, the words do not refer to the same thing.

[3]In terms of the military it does, the standards shouldnt be genderfied simply because women cant compete with male tests

And where did I suggest that women should have it easier in the military? Just like Alecto, you're moving the goalposts and strawman like a pro right here, since this conversation started with you saying "A man who transitions to a woman is a failure of a man." This shit has absolutely nothing to do with military standards. If you reply, make sure you get your head back on track to the original topic.

 

[Clown World]

Oh you're referring to being perpetrators? I suggest you take a gander at "correlation doesn't equal causation" then.



Just look up the definition of "gender." As I clearly said in my post, when the terms are approached with their distinctions(***=biological traits; gender=expression of ***), then yes, they are not the same thing. Informally they are used interchangeably. Formally, the words do not refer to the same thing.



And where did I suggest that women should have it easier in the military? Just like Alecto, you're moving the goalposts and strawman like a pro right here, since this conversation started with you saying "A man who transitions to a woman is a failure of a man." This shit has absolutely nothing to do with military standards. If you reply, make sure you get your head back on track to the original topic.

so its just a coincidece they are lgbt? lul


***= "Either of the two divisions, designated female and male, of this classification"
noun gender
1.
either the male or female division of a species, especially as differentiated by social and cultural roles and behavior:

it does have to do with military standards since male since the transgender person will never be fully that gender, a male could identify as female since the standards are lower he could get in, since he still shares more masculinity than the average female.