The problems​ with "Naruto w/out Kurama" arguments

[Detonator99]

I found quite hypocritical of sasuke's fans downplaying and making fun of naruto for having kurama as source of outside power and yet they completely egnore the fact that their fav got countless more free power-up through the story.

 

[Darth AniCetuS]

Nice thread. Naruto wrecks with or without Kurama.

 

[Azarath Metrion Zinthos]

Kurama was a necessary training wheel for Naruto's power to bloom. He was using Kurama to master his control over bijuu chakra and NE, the two components that make Six Path Senjutsu. Kurama's power is Naruto's OWN power no argument.

Still doesn't change he has to have a dialogue with him every time he's using the power which he tamed.

Tbh, he did earn it. He didn't get any of his forms w/o effort. But it is what it is. Kurama will forever be his partner in battle.

So you can never claim it was just Naruto against Sasuke when Naruto has admitted several times that Kurama is his partner.

 

[Azarath Metrion Zinthos]

Nice thread. Naruto wrecks with or without Kurama.

Kurama-less Naruto's journey ends at Pain. :elmo:

 

[SenseiSama]

Still doesn't change he has to have a dialogue with him every time he's using the power which he tamed.

Tbh, he did earn it. He didn't get any of his forms w/o effort. But it is what it is. Kurama will forever be his partner in battle.

So you can never claim it was just Naruto against Sasuke when Naruto has admitted several times that Kurama is his partner.

He didn't have to dialogue against Neji


Didnt have to dialogue against Raikage


Didn't have to dialogue in VoTE 1


Naruto only dialogued when he needed help and he relies on help even when he doesn't need it because it's the THEME OF THE MANGA, and stop pretending that Sasuke didn't rely on Orochimaru and Taka to face opponents that were stronger than him smh. Get off his d1ck.


Kurama's power was Naruto's power the moment he awakened BM, he doesn't need to ask permission to use any chakra mode he wants. And if you payed attention you would see that Kurama has been the one to offer help.

 

[Darth AniCetuS]

Kurama-less Naruto's journey ends at Pain. :elmo:

That's SM Naruto restricted by Kurama from going all out against Pein and the thread is about Naruto without Kurama sealed inside him so learn to read before posting your retarded opinions.

 

[Azarath Metrion Zinthos]

That's SM Naruto restricted by Kurama from going all out against Pein and the thread is about Naruto without Kurama sealed inside him so learn to read before posting your retarded opinions.

Sorry mate...

I was just doing my job. :th:

 

[Darth AniCetuS]

Sorry mate...

I was just doing my job. :th:

Well whatever it is you suck at it....just like Suckura...:th:

 

[chaos control]

Kurama-less Naruto's journey ends at Pain. :elmo:

Are you talking about the logical alternate reality Kurama-less Naruto or the stupid Kurama-less Naruto that just acts as if all else in the series remains the same? If the former, then we don't know how strong that Naruto would be. Different arsenal after all. He might beat Pain or he might not even fight Pain. Nagato probably wouldn't have even become Pain. If you're talking about the latter, then his journey ends along with Sasuke's at Haku.

 

[Azarath Metrion Zinthos]

Are you talking about the logical alternate reality Kurama-less Naruto or the stupid Kurama-less Naruto that is just acts as if you else in the series remains the same? If the former, then we don't know how strong that Naruto would be. Different arsenal after all. He might beat Pain or he might not even fight Pain. Nagato probably wouldn't have even become Pain. If you're talking about the latter, then his journey ends along with Sasuke's at Haku.

I doubt it. U_U

 

[chaos control]

I doubt it. U_U

Oh really? Mind telling me how Naruto and Sasuke would have beaten Haku if Kurama's chakara hadn't come out? Sasuke was already unconscious on the ground as it was.

 

[chaos control]

All I know is he'd be iruka level naturally and possibly develop a different fighting style to compensate for it. Maybe reaching Ebisu level with much effort. As for toad summoning he wouldn't have the chakra for it.

How do you know this? Minato wasn't a jinchuuriki or a transmigrant, but he had decent reserves. Jiraiya wasn't a jinchuuriki or a transmigrant but he had decent reserves. Heck, Chouji and Konohamaru are neither jinchuuriki nor transmigrants, but they have decent reserves. So then why would Naruto have Iruka level reserves?

 

[Azarath Metrion Zinthos]

Oh really? Mind telling me how Naruto and Sasuke would have beaten Haku if Kurama's chakara hadn't come out? Sasuke was already unconscious on the ground as it was.

Sasuke was still mobile bro. He was seeing through all his attacks, and I guess he was almost tired out, but he still had the ability to jump away from any incoming needles. And if I recall, his worry for Naruto limited what he could do in there, and thus he couldn't really concentrate on Haku.

 

[salamander uchiha]

How do you know this? Minato wasn't a jinchuuriki or a transmigrant, but he had decent reserves. Jiraiya wasn't a jinchuuriki or a transmigrant but he had decent reserves. Heck, Chouji and Konohamaru are neither jinchuuriki nor transmigrants, but they have decent reserves. So then why would Naruto have Iruka level reserves?

Quite easily because Naruto with kyubi chakra was only 2-4 times kakashi. His chakra would be a fraction of that and I'm being generous by giving him average chakra reserves. Now leave your fanfic at the door Naruto couldn't even summon a toad without Kurama's chakra.

 

[Azarath Metrion Zinthos]

How do you know this? Minato wasn't a jinchuuriki or a transmigrant, but he had decent reserves. Jiraiya wasn't a jinchuuriki or a transmigrant but he had decent reserves. Heck, Chouji and Konohamaru are neither jinchuuriki nor transmigrants, but they have decent reserves. So then why would Naruto have Iruka level reserves?

The thing with Naruto is his chakra control wasn't all that impress to begin with. Other Jinchuuriki were getting just as much trouble mastering their chakra control with their Tailed Beasts suppressing it. So we can't say that all of Naruto's chakra control was taken by Kurama. He had about the same difficulty as every other Jinchuuriki, who quickly compensated for that.

That to me says even w/o Kurama, his chakra control wouldn't be anything above Sasuke's. He would probably be decent, but not something we can call special.

 

[chaos control]

Sasuke was still mobile bro. He was seeing through all his attacks, and I guess he was almost tired out, but he still had the ability to jump away from any incoming needles. And if I recall, his worry for Naruto limited what he could do in there, and thus he couldn't really concentrate on Haku.

Him being tired out is no excuse. Neither is his worry for Naruto. Naruto would still be there in this hypothetical scenario, so I guess Sasuke would still have the same worry. This means that he'd still get knocked out. So this takes me back to my question: How exactly would they have beaten Haku?

P.S: Sasuke's fire didn't work on Haku's crystal ice mirrors and that was Sasuke's only jutsu at the time.

 

[chaos control]

Quite easily because Naruto with kyubi chakra was only 2-4 times kakashi. His chakra would be a fraction of that and I'm being generous by giving him average chakra reserves. Now leave your fanfic at the door Naruto couldn't even summon a toad without Kurama's chakra.

You're the one spouting fanfiction. Kakashi stated that on his own, Naruto's chakara reserves were 4 x Kakashi. With Kurama's influence it was more like 100 x Kakashi. Leave your fanfiction at the door.

 

[Styles]

I found quite hypocritical of sasuke's fans downplaying and making fun of naruto for having kurama as source of outside power and yet they completely egnore the fact that their fav got countless more free power-up through the story.

@Bold except he didn't tho.

OT if the story is about them you can't change the whole story. If Naruto never had Kurama he would have far lower chakra reserves and stamina but he would/could make up for it with some Uzumaki seals sage mode and probably even FTG if Minato taught it to him. He wouldn't be on Sasuke's level with that but he would still be OP.

 

[chaos control]

The thing with Naruto is his chakra control wasn't all that impress to begin with. Other Jinchuuriki were getting just as much trouble mastering their chakra control with their Tailed Beasts suppressing it. So we can't say that all of Naruto's chakra control was taken by Kurama. He had about the same difficulty as every other Jinchuuriki, who quickly compensated for that.

That to me says even w/o Kurama, his chakra control wouldn't be anything above Sasuke's. He would probably be decent, but not something we can call special.

I never mentioned chakara control. I mentioned chakara reserves. Even when it comes to chakara control, it's only canon Naruto that had trouble with it (and that was due to Kurama). Alternate reality Naruto had different training, different trainers, and he never had Kurama to begin with, so we don't know how his control is.

 

[salamander uchiha]

You're the one spouting fanfiction. Kakashi stated that on his own, Naruto's chakara reserves were 4 x Kakashi. With Kurama's influence it was more like 100 x Kakashi. Leave your fanfiction at the door.

Absolutely wrong since Naruto's reserves were initally increase by kuramas chakra leaking in and based in that his current level was 4×. Kakashi has no way of separating the 2 since the 4ths seal was designed to add kuramas chakra to his over time. And with kuramas power ie as Naruto draws on it it could be 100 times. I suggest you re-read the manga and leave your fanfiction at the door.

You yourself admit to this truth(kuramas chakra mizing with Naruto's) yet deny it now.