Rinnegan Sasuke(No Rinnegan Powers allowed) VS DRSM Madara

Dizzldot

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Restrictions: Sasuke can't use any rinnegan techs including ameno however he keeps his "increased chakra potency and reserves" from the buff
Location: VOTE
Intel: None for either side

Purpose of this thread is I want to find out why people think Sasuke would stomp this version of Madara, Ameno gg is really the only argument I've seen besides the baseless "more powerful PS even though its smaller its more potent" and his supposedly greater reserves

SC1: VOTE 2 sasuke
SC2: Adult sasuke (do not say his clones can use PS and don't say just because he's older he got a ton more powerful)

SC3: Madara cannot use Rinnegan powers either but keeps wood release and sage mode
 

KidGamer65

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Even if you assumed Madara and Sasuke's PS were equal Sasuke still has the edge by far because of Chidori. PS Chidori>>>PS Blade. PS Chidori=Bijuu Dama which can damage PS, but Chidori is more focused so it'd tear into PS. The blades of PS can't hurt it as long as the user makes an attempt to defend instead of taking repeated blows over and over again.

So PS and PS would clash, but the one with the power of a RSM Bijuu Dama in piercing form would easily win. Now throw in the fact that Sasuke's buff surpasses whatever buff Madara has from Sage Mode and Rinnegan and you come to the conclusion that Sasuke wins pretty easily. Madara's Rinnegan powers are irrelevant in the face of Perfect Susanoo, and his Mokuton is even weaker than that.
 

Dizzldot

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Even if you assumed Madara and Sasuke's PS were equal Sasuke still has the edge by far because of Chidori. PS Chidori>>>PS Blade. PS Chidori=Bijuu Dama which can damage PS, but Chidori is more focused so it'd tear into PS. The blades of PS can't hurt it as long as the user makes an attempt to defend instead of taking repeated blows over and over again.

So PS and PS would clash, but the one with the power of a RSM Bijuu Dama in piercing form would easily win. Now throw in the fact that Sasuke's buff surpasses whatever buff Madara has from Sage Mode and Rinnegan and you come to the conclusion that Sasuke wins pretty easily. Madara's Rinnegan powers are irrelevant in the face of Perfect Susanoo, and his Mokuton is even weaker than that.

Thankyou, Im not against saying madara loses but noone has given ANY argument that is more than fapping. But the mouton he could sprout the flower buds, what if he could use the wood dragon and golem? Also, I don't want to say sasuke's PS could resist the blade's of madara's PS because I don't think there is enough information to draw that conclusion
 

TheSages456

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"Better potency" doesn't matter if 2 people are using the same jutsu on the same level.
That isn't how jutsu and chakra potency works in the first place and Sasuke's chakra isn't any different from Madara's anyway.

S1- Biju Perfect Susano'o one shots with Indra's arrow.

S2- Could go either way. Sasuke is portrayed to be able to potentially surpass Madara in the future back in the War arc, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Boruto saga Sasuke is the one foreshadowed to be superior. Adult Sasuke has no power increase over his younger self since his full power is just Perfect Susano'o. A general skill increase is all that can be drawn if any at all.

You restricted Sasuke from using Rinnegan techniques, although I don't think that Amenotejikara is doing anything when it comes to defeating Madara anyway. No sage power to harm Limbo either, so Madara wins.

S3- Madara is stated to be superior and has objectively superior abilities feat wise.
 

KidGamer65

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Thankyou, Im not against saying madara loses but noone has given ANY argument that is more than fapping. But the mouton he could sprout the flower buds, what if he could use the wood dragon and golem? Also, I don't want to say sasuke's PS could resist the blade's of madara's PS because I don't think there is enough information to draw that conclusion

No reason to believe he can use Mokujin, and even if he could it'd be like his PS but easier to defeat due to it not being as durable and it not having as much firepower, and Mokuryu on it's own can't even take on Kurama let alone PS. Flower World is useless too for obvious reasons. The impact of their clashes would obliterate it nor would the pollen reach Sasuke in Susanoo.

And even if you think Sasuke's PS can't take Madara's PS's blade (even though it's far weaker than something his PS can take and survive as shown in canon, so there is more than enough information to draw that conclusion) all Sasuke has to do is meet the blades with his own blades or rip right through the blades using Chidori, which is far beyond anything Madara's PS can do on it's own.
 

Dizzldot

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No reason to believe he can use Mokujin, and even if he could it'd be like his PS but easier to defeat due to it not being as durable and it not having as much firepower, and Mokuryu on it's own can't even take on Kurama let alone PS. Flower World is useless too for obvious reasons. The impact of their clashes would obliterate it nor would the pollen reach Sasuke in Susanoo.

And even if you think Sasuke's PS can't take Madara's PS's blade (even though it's far weaker than something his PS can take and survive as shown in canon, so there is more than enough information to draw that conclusion) all Sasuke has to do is meet the blades with his own blades or rip right through the blades using Chidori, which is far beyond anything Madara's PS can do on it's own.

See thats what I disagree with sasuke's durability never was shown to be greater than madara's heck madara even ate the punches of the shinsuu senju without being completely obliterated off kurama.
TBH I have no arguments to prove you wrong as power levels should state sasuke wins and we don't even know if madara's PS can fly but I just don't feel as though its a stomp for sasuke
 

JStar King

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So Madara gets all his powers and not Sasuke? What is the point of this thread?

:kk:
 

KidGamer65

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See thats what I disagree with sasuke's durability never was shown to be greater than madara's heck madara even ate the punches of the shinsuu senju without being completely obliterated off kurama.
TBH I have no arguments to prove you wrong as power levels should state sasuke wins and we don't even know if madara's PS can fly but I just don't feel as though its a stomp for sasuke

Even though it's obvious that Sasuke's PS is at least as durable as Madara's PS, that doesn't even change the outcome of the match here as Sasuke still has far more firepower than Madara does and can block his attacks with his own attacks.
 

Dizzldot

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Even though it's obvious that Sasuke's PS is at least as durable as Madara's PS, that doesn't even change the outcome of the match here as Sasuke still has far more firepower than Madara does and can block his attacks with his own attacks.

Thats my point I feel that whatever sasuke does madara can block and whatever madara does sasukec an block, susanoo arrows=yasaka magatama swords cancel swords not to mention madara's cut mountains with the shockwave while sasuke's cut the CT idk which is a more impressive feat and I guess it comes down to PS chidori which should be easily evaded by madara in my mind with sharingan pre cog the chidori is a straight-line attack? and then if madara used a wood dragon to hold sasuke down and deep forest emergence. I don't see either winning even if sasuke has the rinnegan since they're basically copies of each other
 

Dizzldot

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So Madara gets all his powers and not Sasuke? What is the point of this thread?

:kk:

Have you ever heard of restrictions in the VS thread or do you only ***** when it negatively affects your buttbuddy
 

KidGamer65

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Thats my point I feel that whatever sasuke does madara can block and whatever madara does sasukec an block, susanoo arrows=yasaka magatama swords cancel swords not to mention madara's cut mountains with the shockwave while sasuke's cut the CT idk which is a more impressive feat and I guess it comes down to PS chidori which should be easily evaded by madara in my mind with sharingan pre cog the chidori is a straight-line attack? and then if madara used a wood dragon to hold sasuke down and deep forest emergence. I don't see either winning even if sasuke has the rinnegan since they're basically copies of each other

Why would Madara be able to easily evade Chidori? Naruto is far faster than any form of Madara without the Juubi yet he can't easily evade the attacks Sasuke dishes out with PS. Madara fares no better. Chidori can be used like it was originally, a dash and then thrust, or it can be used in close quarters as a simple thrust, also shown in the Manga. So there's no reason he'll evade a Chidori from point blank range.

And why in the world would Deep Forest Emergence and Wood Dragon be able to hold PS down? Hashirama needed Mokujin to fight on PS's level. A swing of PS's blade is enough to obliterate any Mokuton jutsu that isn't named Mokujin or Shinsuusenju.


And no, they aren't copies of each other. Even if you assume their Susanoo are equal, which they aren't, Sasuke has Chidori and Ameno. More firepower by far and can teleport. It's painfully obvious who is superior.
 

Dizzldot

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Why would Madara be able to easily evade Chidori? Naruto is far faster than any form of Madara without the Juubi yet he can't easily evade the attacks Sasuke dishes out with PS. Madara fares no better. Chidori can be used like it was originally, a dash and then thrust, or it can be used in close quarters as a simple thrust, also shown in the Manga. So there's no reason he'll evade a Chidori from point blank range.

And why in the world would Deep Forest Emergence and Wood Dragon be able to hold PS down? Hashirama needed Mokujin to fight on PS's level. A swing of PS's blade is enough to obliterate any Mokuton jutsu that isn't named Mokujin or Shinsuusenju.


And no, they aren't copies of each other. Even if you assume their Susanoo are equal, which they aren't, Sasuke has Chidori and Ameno. More firepower by far and can teleport. It's painfully obvious who is superior.

Ameno is restricted for SC 1+2 and besides that and chidori you didnt name anything that makes them not copies but Ill add enton, sasuke's susanoo was never portrayed as superior, a point blank chidori thrust never hit naruto in his avatar and he never tried to dodge the painfully obvious straight-line chidori These are avatars their movements aren't akin to humans in speed it is much easier to read the movements of an object that size. If madara could use mokujin+ryu that coupled with his PS should take down sasuke's PS with ease once getting a hand on it so a swing of PS blade wont happen if it's hands are tied down by the dragon and mokujin.

Back to my point, EMS Adult sasuke's susanoo having chidori does not put it above DRSM madara's PS one attack doesn't decide the battle especially one that blatantly obvious someone of madara's skill will sense (fought sasuke with no eyes) and pre cog easily. So basically its Madara's susanoo versus his same susanoo (portrayed smaller) that has a chidori, cmon KG chidori isn't deciding this one

Adult rinnegan sasuke imo doesnt even one shot ameno+PS chidori Madara's PS can definitely tank one of those unless you think the penetrative force of PS chidori is greater than sasuke's normal chidori (which wouldn't make sense since smaller surface area=greater psi) and that naruto's RSM cloak which tanked it is more durable than madara's PS
 

The Messiah

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This hurts me so much because kg is spot on with what he's saying. As much as I wish this version of Madara could beat Sasuke he sadly can't.

If his limbos could actually use all of his abilities at full power it would be a more interesting debate though.
 

Dizzldot

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This hurts me so much because kg is spot on with what he's saying. As much as I wish this version of Madara could beat Sasuke he sadly can't.

If his limbos could actually use all of his abilities at full power it would be a more interesting debate though.

Don't stop fighting the good fight JJ madara>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Adult sasuke
 

KidGamer65

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Ameno is restricted for SC 1+2 and besides that and chidori you didnt name anything that makes them not copies but Ill add enton, sasuke's susanoo was never portrayed as superior, a point blank chidori thrust never hit naruto in his avatar and he never tried to dodge the painfully obvious straight-line chidori These are avatars their movements aren't akin to humans in speed it is much easier to read the movements of an object that size. If madara could use mokujin+ryu that coupled with his PS should take down sasuke's PS with ease once getting a hand on it so a swing of PS blade wont happen if it's hands are tied down by the dragon and mokujin.

I thought you were talking about them being copies overall, but for this scenario then yes, the only thing that sets them apart is Chidori and the fact that Sasuke's PS is superior to his, but again, for this argument I'll pretend like it isn't since it doesn't really matter. As for this post, no, Naruto's response to Sasuke's attacks were blocks or counters because he doesn't have the speed to outright dodge Sasuke's attacks, and whether or not Avatars movements are different from humans doesn't matter as all parties are using an Avatar thus whatever demerit that is put on their movement speed gets put on all 3 of them. Naruto is faster with far better reflexes than Madara. Sasuke's PS=Madara's PS=Naruto's Avatar in all physical abilities. If Naruto with better reflexes and an Avatar with equal speed needs to block all of Sasuke's attacks why would Madara with less speed and an Avatar with equal speed be able to easily dodge it? None of what you are saying here is based upon any type of evidence whatsoever.

And no, Madara can't use Mokujin and PS at the same time even if he knew the former jutsu, which you can't prove that he does so you should probably stop mentioning it btw.

Back to my point, EMS Adult sasuke's susanoo having chidori does not put it above DRSM madara's PS one attack doesn't decide the battle especially one that blatantly obvious someone of madara's skill will sense (fought sasuke with no eyes) and pre cog easily. So basically its Madara's susanoo versus his same susanoo (portrayed smaller) that has a chidori, cmon KG chidori isn't deciding this one

Again, what you are saying makes no sense. If we assume their Avatars are equal in all forms then the guy with far more firepower will obviously come on top and that's just common sense. If a 3-Tomoe Sasuke faced off of a copy of himself that had equal strength but no Chidori who would win? Obviously the one with all of Sasuke's other skills+Chidori. If Naruto's Avatar fought a parallel version of itself but couldn't use Bijuu Dama who would win? The one with BD or the one without? Clearly the one with BD.

"Madara will sense and dodge it easily" is a statement you've yet to actually support with any type of evidence. What makes Madara in PS fast enough to avoid a close range Chidori? Nothing.

And no, all PS are the same exact size if you manage to look past Kishimoto's inconsistent scaling.

Adult rinnegan sasuke imo doesnt even one shot ameno+PS chidori Madara's PS can definitely tank one of those unless you think the penetrative force of PS chidori is greater than sasuke's normal chidori (which wouldn't make sense since smaller surface area=greater psi) and that naruto's RSM cloak which tanked it is more durable than madara's PS

What? :lol Obviously their penetrative forces are not equal if one can clash with Bijuu Dama equally while the other can only clash with Rasengan. Smaller surface area equaling greater focus doesn't matter here when these aren't the same jutsu with the same power. One is far stronger.

RSM Naruto's Bijuu Dama is strong enough to damage PS. Chidori equals that, but focused. Thus a direct hit pierces Madara's Susanoo, and if he uses Ameno with it then Madara won't even react well enough to block it thus he takes a direct hit to wherever area Sasuke aims at.
 

Dizzldot

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I thought you were talking about them being copies overall, but for this scenario then yes, the only thing that sets them apart is Chidori and the fact that Sasuke's PS is superior to his, but again, for this argument I'll pretend like it isn't since it doesn't really matter. As for this post, no, Naruto's response to Sasuke's attacks were blocks or counters because he doesn't have the speed to outright dodge Sasuke's attacks, and whether or not Avatars movements are different from humans doesn't matter as all parties are using an Avatar thus whatever demerit that is put on their movement speed gets put on all 3 of them. Naruto is faster with far better reflexes than Madara. Sasuke's PS=Madara's PS=Naruto's Avatar in all physical abilities. If Naruto with better reflexes and an Avatar with equal speed needs to block all of Sasuke's attacks why would Madara with less speed and an Avatar with equal speed be able to easily dodge it? None of what you are saying here is based upon any type of evidence whatsoever.

And no, Madara can't use Mokujin and PS at the same time even if he knew the former jutsu, which you can't prove that he does so you should probably stop mentioning it btw.



Again, what you are saying makes no sense. If we assume their Avatars are equal in all forms then the guy with far more firepower will obviously come on top and that's just common sense. If a 3-Tomoe Sasuke faced off of a copy of himself that had equal strength but no Chidori who would win? Obviously the one with all of Sasuke's other skills+Chidori. If Naruto's Avatar fought a parallel version of itself but couldn't use Bijuu Dama who would win? The one with BD or the one without? Clearly the one with BD.

"Madara will sense and dodge it easily" is a statement you've yet to actually support with any type of evidence. What makes Madara in PS fast enough to avoid a close range Chidori? Nothing.

And no, all PS are the same exact size if you manage to look past Kishimoto's inconsistent scaling.



What? :lol Obviously their penetrative forces are not equal if one can clash with Bijuu Dama equally while the other can only clash with Rasengan. Smaller surface area equaling greater focus doesn't matter here when these aren't the same jutsu with the same power. One is far stronger.

RSM Naruto's Bijuu Dama is strong enough to damage PS. Chidori equals that, but focused. Thus a direct hit pierces Madara's Susanoo, and if he uses Ameno with it then Madara won't even react well enough to block it thus he takes a direct hit to wherever area Sasuke aims at.

Not gunna bother with the bottom part as sasuke's chidori didnt match that pretty small TBB as his avatar took considerably more damage losing an entire wing, as well as saying it is "more focused" when its the size of a PS fist and will "easily pierce" madara's PS is also fanfic at best you have no evidence

Madara sensing and dodging comes from the fact he could dodge EMS sasuke's kenjutsu easily while blind he can easily see a chidori coming from his susanoo and counter that arm you act as if naruto didnt charge his TBB and leap towards sasuke purposefully clashing with him and that taking the few seconds to charge and leap was a dire reaction

Your logic is flawed saying the 3T sauske with the bigger arsenal by 1 jutsu will win because that makes the assumption that one jutsu will end the battle or create an opening to end the battle if it does neither of those it is irrelevant in the discussion especially considering you can replace chidori with a kunai and get the job done

Inconsistent scaling is used as an excuse for everything, still stands madara's PS was portrayed as the largest

Also Mokujin obviously has never been used by madara it was for the sake of argument in VS
 

Dizzldot

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I'm talking about DRSM Madara. Obviously jj Madara is superior to Sasuke.


Yeah, I'm honestly not saying this for just sasuke I think DRSM is a match for RSM naruto as well and everyone looks past the actual feats and assumes "power level" bullshit nothing at VOTE 2 surpassed Madara's feats in EMS with the kyuubi except for IA and TBBFRS clash
 
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