If Lee enters the 5th gate(which Gaara tanked)..he's definitely removed himself from the fight seeing as his muscles started tearing at the 4th gate iirc.
If u check my above posts where i detailed how team gai would win , i only had lee remove his weights , then proceed to surpsrise blitz and kill both Temari and kangkuro and still have time to kick Gaara in the air afterwhich Neji shunshins to meet them followed by Jyuken/goken combo.
Team Gai wins Neg diff without gates , not to mention if we follow the story lee would not even think about gates unless he really needed it which he doesn't.
Gaara's sand couldn't catch up with Gaara during Lee's pummeling because Lee was literally running in circles with Gaara. If Lee continued attacking Gaara in a single linear format (which is what Neji is about) the sand would have caught up even when Lee was in 5th gate.
Unweighted Lee attacked Gaara in a linear format , and the sand never caught up , along with the fact that Neji is pretty close to unweighted Lees Body speed.
And the brute strength of the 5th gate won't break through Gaara's sand shield because it couldn't eradicate Gaara's armor of sand entirely which is stated in the Databook to be weaker than Gaara's sand shield defensively. Lee isn't defeating Gaara.
Neji? The general consensus i've seen in Neji vs Gaara match ups is that Neji disables the chakra in the sand shield (very plausible) and goes on to wreck Gaara's sand armor?
I have 2 problems with this scenario.
- If Neji disables Gaara's chakra in the sand shield, the assumption is that the sand will become slow. Which isn't entirely true. We've seen Gaara manipulate Chakra-less sand in a fast manner too (sand tsunami and basically his fight against Deidara..) So even even Neji disables the chakra in the sand he's not stopping the automatic protection and Gaara can still manipulate that sand meaning Neji will likely be on the defensive most of the time.
-If we assume Neji gets up close with Gaara bypassing his initial sand shield defense, how exactly is he taking the armor of sand down in one strike? He used 64 palms on Kidomaru and kido came out unscathed by shielding himself in armor similar to Gaara's armor of sand.
I cant debate Gaara Vs Neji right now because that would require too much writing which would branch out way too far LOL , but just to give u a bit of info , Kido's golden armor had the ability to block Chakra and Gaara's does not , so Jyuken bypasses his sand armor and negs him.
It's portrayed that a target can't move/counter once 64 palms is initiated but even though the armor gets wrecked, Gaara can stand, proceed to attack Neji with the chakra-less sand Neji supposedly bypassed and re-wear the armor while Neji is on the defensive.
Gaara passed out after barely getting touched by chidori and seeing his own blood , he aint standing after his internal organs get wreked and he's now spiting blood everywhere LOL.
Not to mention he wont be able to mold chakra which means he cant control sand.
Lee's method of fighting especially with gates (destruction everywhere)more or less shows he and Neji can't attack in tandem. It would have to be 1 VS 1 and Gaara probably outlasts them both.
Very true which is why i said that unweighted Lee is enough to kill Temari and kangkuro + set gaara up for neg/low diff death in the sky after getting launched by unweighted Lee.
If u check my above posts where i detailed how team gai would win , i only had lee remove his weights , then proceed to surpsrise blitz and kill both Temari and kangkuro and still have time to kick Gaara in the air afterwhich Neji shunshins to meet them followed by Jyuken/goken combo.
Team Gai wins Neg diff without gates , not to mention if we follow the story lee would not even think about gates unless he really needed it which he doesn't.
Neg diff without gates? But this goes against the scenario of 'Lee kicking Gaara' upwards though. Unweighted Lee doesn't have the strength to do that when 1st gate Lee whose strength is 5 times greater than unweighted Lee had a hard time kicking Gaara upwards for initial lotus.
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Just the brief period of pain Lee experienced was enough to make Gaara sub with an empty sand shell.
I really don't know about Temari and Kankuro though..but i find it hard to believe he can just blitz both of them easily. Especially Temari who was portrayed to have exceptional reactions?
Unweighted Lee attacked Gaara in a linear format , and the sand never caught up , along with the fact that Neji is pretty close to unweighted Lees Body speed.
I'm not sure that was the case..the sand cushioned the blows he threw at Gaara from the front and back. Lee's first hit on Gaara was from above after being repeatedly blocked from Gaara's front and back iirc. Neji doesn't possess this style of combat does he?
All this is true , i could easily have lee break his neck in a debate or fight to the death tho.
lol...true that. But then there should be other matchups that could end quickly with breaking the opponent's neck right? xD
I cant debate Gaara Vs Neji right now because that would require too much writing which would branch out way too far LOL , but just to give u a bit of info , Kido's golden armor had the ability to block Chakra and Gaara's does not , so Jyuken bypasses his sand armor and negs him.
Unnecessary info for you but Neji is on my favs list too.. I don't want to debate him vs Gaara :lol
but ..i don't know man... Kido said it blocks chakra but that didn't stop Neji from wrecking it did it? I assumed he literally meant it'll block the chakra from reaching him..not that it had any special properties.. I might be wrong..but take a look at this..
Normal Kido web
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Thing created from the same material as the armor:
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We see that Neji wrecked it too...
Also in Shippuden when Neji was trapped in water prison. Despite the clone touching the prison, Neji had to destroy the prison first before using air palm on the clone. Point i'm trying to make is i doubt Jyuken can just pass through the sand and go affect Gaara directly. He'll have to get rid of the armor first.
Gaara passed out after barely getting touched by chidori and seeing his own blood , he aint standing after his internal organs get wreked and he's now spiting blood everywhere LOL.
Not to mention he wont be able to mold chakra which means he cant control sand.
If he gets hit with Jyuken directly, this is very true.
Very true which is why i said that unweighted Lee is enough to kill Temari and kangkuro + set gaara up for neg/low diff death in the sky after getting launched by unweighted Lee.
Neg diff without gates? But this goes against the scenario of 'Lee kicking Gaara' upwards though. Unweighted Lee doesn't have the strength to do that when 1st gate Lee whose strength is 5 times greater than unweighted Lee had a hard time kicking Gaara upwards for initial lotus.
Just the brief period of pain Lee experienced was enough to make Gaara sub with an empty sand shell.
Thats wat i mean bro , He's gonna open the first gate and bicycle kick him for Neji to come in and wrek him since with Byakugan gaara cant sub without being seen.
I really don't know about Temari and Kankuro though..but i find it hard to believe he can just blitz both of them easily. Especially Temari who was portrayed to have exceptional reactions?
No , their reactions are mid/high genin level at best for temari which means unweighted Lee would blitz them for days and still have time to blitz Gaara.
I'm not sure that was the case..the sand cushioned the blows he threw at Gaara from the front and back. Lee's first hit on Gaara was from above after being repeatedly blocked from Gaara's front and back iirc. Neji doesn't possess this style of combat does he?
No but he does possess the speed , Byakugan awareness and shunshin to manouver around the sand same way Sasuke did , but i like how inconsitent gaara's auto sand was when comparing Sasukes and lees performances since the first Hit Sasuke landed should've been blocked the same way Lees were LOL.
But of course lol , goken also deals with breaking bones and use techniques that incorperate that , kishi just nerfed Lee lol , he could've easily grabbed him and broken his neck at any time between his performance in gated mode.
Even after launching someone in the air with primary lotus gives a easy chance to blitz behind them , and safely snap their necks if they aint that skilled or have a power to counter u , Gaara is like the biggest noob in taijutsu lol.
Unnecessary info for you but Neji is on my favs list too.. I don't want to debate him vs Gaara :lol
but ..i don't know man... Kido said it blocks chakra but that didn't stop Neji from wrecking it did it? I assumed he literally meant it'll block the chakra from reaching him..not that it had any special properties.. I might be wrong..but take a look at this..
Normal Kido web
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Thing created from the same material as the armor:
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We see that Neji wrecked it too...
Also in Shippuden when Neji was trapped in water prison. Despite the clone touching the prison, Neji had to destroy the prison first before using air palm on the clone. Point i'm trying to make is i doubt Jyuken can just pass through the sand and go affect Gaara directly. He'll have to get rid of the armor first.
I dont think we can share kido's armor feat with Gaara since kidos golden fuid specifically stops chakra and neji has never been shown passing chakra through the golden fluid when hardened , but even if give gaara that feat , 2 or so palms from Neji and some punches from lee to the forehead would release small gaps that can easily be breached so at most it would take two hits at the same area to allow them to easily kill him.
Thats wat i mean bro , He's gonna open the first gate and bicycle kick him for Neji to come in and wrek him since with Byakugan gaara cant sub without being seen.
What you meant? You explicitly said Lee didn't need gates and that he and Neji will end the match in 3 minutes which is what made me pick this up in the first place ^^ Lee can't do Initial lotus without the first gate and even with the 1st gate, he experiences pain. Yes Gaara can't sub without being seen by the byakugan. But that wouldn't stop him from subbing would it? At best Neji would know his new location and that's it.
No , their reactions are mid/high genin level at best for temari which means unweighted Lee would blitz them for days and still have time to blitz Gaara.
Again with Lee blitzing Gaara. How does this happen exactly when Gaara walked off from his battle with 5th gated Lee unscathed?
No but he does possess the speed , Byakugan awareness and shunshin to manouver around the sand same way Sasuke did , but i like how inconsitent gaara's auto sand was when comparing Sasukes and lees performances since the first Hit Sasuke landed should've been blocked the same way Lees were LOL.
But of course lol , goken also deals with breaking bones and use techniques that incorperate that , kishi just nerfed Lee lol , he could've easily grabbed him and broken his neck at any time between his performance in gated mode.
Even after launching someone in the air with primary lotus gives a easy chance to blitz behind them , and safely snap their necks if they aint that skilled or have a power to counter u , Gaara is like the biggest noob in taijutsu lol.
Extreme Lotus maybe..but not primary Lotus seeing as Gaara was fast enough to sub with a sand shell. Besides, a lot of other characters were fast enough in part 1 to end characters in such a manner too. Haku was fast enough to break both Naruto and Sasuke's necks but it wouldn't make an interesting story would it? :lol
Vampire Diaries used to be awesome btw ;-;
I dont think we can share kido's armor feat with Gaara since kidos golden fuid specifically stops chakra and neji has never been shown passing chakra through the golden fluid when hardened , but even if give gaara that feat , 2 or so palms from Neji and some punches from lee to the forehead would release small gaps that can easily be breached so at most it would take two hits at the same area to allow them to easily kill him.
If it explicitly stops chakra, then Neji probably shouldn't have been able to cut through them with Chakra here:
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And the gentle fist actually wrecked the armor right?
2 or so palms from Lee? That could be possible except even the extremely fast 5th gate Lee didn't hit Gaara in a spot twice. He hit once, circled to another area and hit another place when focusing in one place would have at least broken the armor there. There should obviously be a reason he didn't use that plan.
Neji's could be debatable as he definitely has superior striking speed..but...Gaara could quickly fill that breach with sand again could he not?
True but i was referring to unweighted lee using his intial gates without going hidden lotus.
Unweighted Lee..Initial gates? The initial gate is the 1st gate and 1st gate Lee =/= unweighted Lee. The only feat unweighted Lee has is increased speed. Even 1st gate Lee had trouble getting Gaara airborne.
What you meant? You explicitly said Lee didn't need gates and that he and Neji will end the match in 3 minutes which is what made me pick this up in the first place ^^ Lee can't do Initial lotus without the first gate and even with the 1st gate, he experiences pain. Yes Gaara can't sub without being seen by the byakugan. But that wouldn't stop him from subbing would it? At best Neji would know his new location and that's it.
When i say Gates , i mean Hidden lotus and not 1st and second , sorry for not bein specific.
The moment Gaara tries to sub , Neji and lee would both use their own substition/Shunshin speed to bounce off Gaara's empty shell to intercept and blitz him with their faster speeds , since Sub relies on speed DWL.
Sub is literally a broken jutsu lol , u can literally make arguements that people can always sub from everything and its basically ftg fast , so its best to go with the manga in which one cannot sub or does not sub if they are seen while doing by the attackers lol.
The jutsu itself doesn't make sense because if gaara was fast enough to escape Lee and replace himself with a emply clone , then why couldn't he cacoon lee in sand after he started prepping lotus on the same sand clone that could just simlpe burst out in sand followed by Sand coffin.
Extreme Lotus maybe..but not primary Lotus seeing as Gaara was fast enough to sub with a sand shell. Besides, a lot of other characters were fast enough in part 1 to end characters in such a manner too. Haku was fast enough to break both Naruto and Sasuke's necks but it wouldn't make an interesting story would it? :lol
Gentle fist was never shown to have defeated the Golden Armor and if ur referring to Neji's final attack on CM2 Kido , then he didn't get time to activate golden armor before getting blitzed.
2 or so palms from Lee? That could be possible except even the extremely fast 5th gate Lee didn't hit Gaara in a spot twice. He hit once, circled to another area and hit another place when focusing in one place would have at least broken the armor there. There should obviously be a reason he didn't use that plan.
Neji's could be debatable as he definitely has superior striking speed..but...Gaara could quickly fill that breach with sand again could he not?
Unweighted Lee..Initial gates? The initial gate is the 1st gate and 1st gate Lee =/= unweighted Lee. The only feat unweighted Lee has is increased speed. Even 1st gate Lee had trouble getting Gaara airborne.
When i say Gates , i mean Hidden lotus and not 1st and second , sorry for not bein specific.
The moment Gaara tries to sub , Neji and lee would both use their own substition/Shunshin speed to bounce off Gaara's empty shell to intercept and blitz him with their faster speeds , since Sub relies on speed DWL.
Sub is literally a broken jutsu lol , u can literally make arguements that people can always sub from everything and its basically ftg fast , so its best to go with the manga in which one cannot sub or does not sub if they are seen while doing by the attackers lol.
The jutsu itself doesn't make sense because if gaara was fast enough to escape Lee and replace himself with a emply clone , then why couldn't he cacoon lee in sand after he started prepping lotus on the same sand clone that could just simlpe burst out in sand followed by Sand coffin.
But this doesn't have anything to do with Gaara getting blitzed does it??
lol what does DWL mean and what exactly does it mean to blitz? I assumed blitz was like a super speed fwoosh-like move followed by a slash on the opponent resulting in the blitzer winning neg diff?
If we're talking no intel, you're really giving Lee a lot of...super abilities here. Lee can't know when Gaara subs with a sand shell. And since Neji would be concentrating on Gaara, he won't have his 360 vision active would he? Perhaps he'll be able to tell that Gaara has subbed but there'll be a time lag before he activates his 360, and actually search for Gaara. Just like in the Jirobo case.
And that time lag will probably be enough for Gaara to overwhelm them with sand. Contrary to popular belief Gaara vs Kimi wasn't the first time Gaara created more sand in a fight.
Gaara has been shown manipulating large amounts of sand with one/two hand(s) but in this scan (just like in the battle with Kimi when he unleashed the tsunami) Gaara seems to be doing a hand-seal in the fight with Lee to control a large volume of sand that seemingly appeared out of nowhere.
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He could have killed Lee who was more or less incapacitated because of the strain of opening the first gate but Gaara proceeded to treat him as his play-toy. In this hypothetical battle, if he subs, he emerges and create at least this volume of sand and sends towards Lee and Neji. It would catch Lee (who will be weak from using continuous kicks on Gaara just like in canon) and Gaara would kill him leaving only Neji to be on the defensive.
Nope , but for a logical debate out of chracter , imo yes lol.
lol quitter...i stopped at season 5 XD Originals is boss but i haven't been able to watch any episodes of the latest season ;-;
Its made from the same substance but its obviously not the same thing , one hardens instantly and the other never does.
Gentle fist was never shown to have defeated the Golden Armor and if ur referring to Neji's final attack on CM2 Kido , then he didn't get time to activate golden armor before getting blitzed.
Neji and Lee(especially Lee who despite using the 1st gate had to attack from above and below Gaara before his hits could make contact) can't hit a spot simultaneously..The sand shield should and will catch up. And Gaara can refill his armor since he can create more sand.
lol what does DWL mean and what exactly does it mean to blitz? I assumed blitz was like a super speed fwoosh-like move followed by a slash on the opponent resulting in the blitzer winning neg diff?
If we're talking no intel, you're really giving Lee a lot of...super abilities here. Lee can't know when Gaara subs with a sand shell. And since Neji would be concentrating on Gaara, he won't have his 360 vision active would he? Perhaps he'll be able to tell that Gaara has subbed but there'll be a time lag before he activates his 360, and actually search for Gaara. Just like in the Jirobo case.
Lee doesn't have to know when he subs because neji would know before he even subs + plus both would already be air-born along with gaara , i could easily make the arguemnt and say Neji intercepts gaara.
But again substition is literally full of holes because it uses the users shunshin speed to travel to and from , so Neji would still be faster and could likely stop him from subbing LOL.
And that time lag will probably be enough for Gaara to overwhelm them with sand. Contrary to popular belief Gaara vs Kimi wasn't the first time Gaara created more sand in a fight.
He could have killed Lee who was more or less incapacitated because of the strain of opening the first gate but Gaara proceeded to treat him as his play-toy. In this hypothetical battle, if he subs, he emerges and create at least this volume of sand and sends towards Lee and Neji. It would catch Lee (who will be weak from using continuous kicks on Gaara just like in canon) and Gaara would kill him leaving only Neji to be on the defensive.
Wait , tbh i think i stopped tvd at the originals pilot epsiode which was season 5 or 4 i think? and bro the latest season is so boss man , u need to see it.
Neji and Lee(especially Lee who despite using the 1st gate had to attack from above and below Gaara before his hits could make contact) can't hit a spot simultaneously..The sand shield should and will catch up. And Gaara can refill his armor since he can create more sand.
Gaara cant refill the armor without the sand shield and it wont keep up with both Neji and lee hitting gaara upwards and 1 or a couple jyuken strikes and gaara is done.
Die with laughter lol and blitz means to move so fast the enemy cant physically react.
Lee doesn't have to know when he subs because neji would know before he even subs + plus both would already be air-born along with gaara , i could easily make the arguemnt and say Neji intercepts gaara.
But again substition is literally full of holes because it uses the users shunshin speed to travel to and from, so Neji would still be faster and could likely stop him from subbing LOL.
Lol Neji easily anticipates this and shunshins himself and Lee to safety , but it wont come to that since he's gonna get stopped before the sub.
I'm not exactly sure how Neji knowing before Gaara subs is going to help Lee. He would simultaneously have to tell Lee he's subbing + activate 360 to search for Gaara's new location + tell Lee Gaara's new location. That's too much time.
We aren't even sure Lee would be able to react because by kicking Gaara upwards continuously, he'll have strained his muscles and we saw how short a period the 1st gate power up lasted before Lee felt the effects and couldn't avoid Gaara's sand attacks or those guys from sound
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I think it's sort of impossible for Neji to intercept a subbing Gaara because:
- Iirc, in the whole manga we only witness shinobi that could fly, Gai, Lee and Naruto with Kagebunshins able to actually change direction while in mid-air..
- if that is incorrect and we go by shunshin speed, then Gaara's was portrayed to be nigh instant.
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From the 3 scans.. Gaara was able to look at that screen, and shunshin to the arena faster than Baki (and possibly Gai and Asuma -3 jounins-) could look at that same screen and mentally register the match up.
Also it was sort of implied Gaara's stealth was Kakashi level
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Kakashi level stealth should be faster than base jirobo who was capable of escaping Neji's view and Naruto's who was able to deceive Neji despite Neji probably being able to see chakra build up in Naruto for using Kagebunshin.
Neji can easily save Lee with a focused shunshin , gaara is never killing lee with neji there lol.
Neji was so badass lol but now we're getting closer to the point i'm trying to make which is Lee would actually be Neji's handicap in this fight.
Lee can't do anything against Gaara without going into gates. The 1st gate lasts for an extremely short period and Lee is basically crippled afterwards. Neji would then have to be carrying Lee around meaning they'll be on the defensive. Canonically the 2nd gate has no feats except healing and is also for a brief period as Lee opted to open the 3rd and 4th gates before proceeding to attack Gaara. Neji was visibly surprised by Lee's transformation and speed in the 3rd and 4th gate
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and it can be argued the sheer speed, destruction and shock-waves from above 2 gated Lee's movement means Neji and Lee can't fight against Gaara together.
Wait , tbh i think i stopped tvd at the originals pilot epsiode which was season 5 or 4 i think? and bro the latest season is so boss man , u need to see it.
Haha i know i need to..it has great reviews but unfortunately i have little free time these days. The versus Colosseum here is so interesting to me atm that the little free time i get is spent reading old threads from this section on NB XD
Yes , and as u can see it hardened instantly.
He tried to catch them in webs LOL , not kill them lol.
I see..but it did seem like the web Kido used to restrain was the 'normal Kido web' i posted earlier which is very thin compared to what was chasing Shika, Naruto and Kiba..anyway i concede on this part.
Gaara cant refill the armor without the sand shield and it wont keep up with both Neji and lee hitting gaara upwards and 1 or a couple jyuken strikes and gaara is done.
But Gaara doesn't use the sand shield to refill his armor if not the armor will have the same defensive ability as the shield of sand which isn't the case as stated by the databook. Gaara's armor is just regular sand tightly packed together that's all.
Again, 5th gated Lee never breached that armor of sand entirely at any point if not Gaara would have at least sustained a minor injury which never happened. Leaving Neji to continuously try to Jyuken a spot but i honestly doubt the jyuken will get through.
A scenario is the hiding like a mole technique. Byakugan can see that mole in the ground but if the user proceeds to jyuken the ground will it reach that mole?
I'm not exactly sure how Neji knowing before Gaara subs is going to help Lee. He would simultaneously have to tell Lee he's subbing + activate 360 to search for Gaara's new location + tell Lee Gaara's new location. That's too much time.
LMAO , this is why i didn't want to play the sub game lol , gaara has to literally move then physically replace himself with a clone lol.
The tech is beyond broken because it means that people like p1 sakura have god level speed along with anyone who has the jutsu , so if gaara is fast enough to do all that then why wouldn't Neji be fast enough to intercept by using his own sub god speed??
Substition is too broken bro , it cant be used in debate DWL.
I think it's sort of impossible for Neji to intercept a subbing Gaara because:
- Iirc, in the whole manga we only witness shinobi that could fly, Gai, Lee and Naruto with Kagebunshins able to actually change direction while in mid-air..
- if that is incorrect and we go by shunshin speed, then Gaara's was portrayed to be nigh instant.
From the 3 scans.. Gaara was able to look at that screen, and shunshin to the arena faster than Baki (and possibly Gai and Asuma -3 jounins-) could look at that same screen and mentally register the match up.
Also it was sort of implied Gaara's stealth was Kakashi level
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Kakashi level stealth should be faster than base jirobo who was capable of escaping Neji's view and Naruto's who was able to deceive Neji despite Neji probably being able to see chakra build up in Naruto for using Kagebunshin.
Dwl that gaara , the good old days when Naruto used to be a show about Ninjas.
-Jirobo's and Naruto's cases were heavily aided by PIS wjich means they cant be used in a debate imo and logically neji would have his 360dv turned on while fighting a ninja like gaara.
Also stealth does not = speed , i could use the arguement and say kidomaru is more sneaky than Lee , but it doesn't mean faster.
Lee can't do anything against Gaara without going into gates. The 1st gate lasts for an extremely short period and Lee is basically crippled afterwards. Neji would then have to be carrying Lee around meaning they'll be on the defensive. Canonically the 2nd gate has no feats except healing and is also for a brief period as Lee opted to open the 3rd and 4th gates before proceeding to attack Gaara. Neji was visibly surprised by Lee's transformation and speed in the 3rd and 4th gate
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and it can be argued the sheer speed, destruction and shock-waves from above 2 gated Lee's movement means Neji and Lee can't fight against Gaara together.
Haha i know i need to..it has great reviews but unfortunately i have little free time these days. The versus Colosseum here is so interesting to me atm that the little free time i get is spent reading old threads from this section on NB XD
I see..but it did seem like the web Kido used to restrain was the 'normal Kido web' i posted earlier which is very thin compared to what was chasing Shika, Naruto and Kiba..anyway i concede on this part.
But Gaara doesn't use the sand shield to refill his armor if not the armor will have the same defensive ability as the shield of sand which isn't the case as stated by the databook. Gaara's armor is just regular sand tightly packed together that's all.
Again, 5th gated Lee never breached that armor of sand entirely at any point if not Gaara would have at least sustained a minor injury which never happened. Leaving Neji to continuously try to Jyuken a spot but i honestly doubt the jyuken will get through.
Thats true but i call it PIS to be honest , flying around and knocking gaara all over like a ball was PIS since lee could've attacked ntn but his face LOL.
Even Sasuke breached the armor on his cheek with a punch followed by a kick dwl.
This is irrelevant , but Sasuke could've also roasted Gaara in his sand shell instead of trying taijutsu or wasting chakra on chidori lol , PIS Bro.
A scenario is the hiding like a mole technique. Byakugan can see that mole in the ground but if the user proceeds to jyuken the ground will it reach that mole?
Depends on how far underground the mole goes , if its only covered by a thin amount of ground like gaara is covered by a thin layer of sand , then jyuken would still hit the mole , kinda like hinata bypassing BM Naruto's thin chakra armor.
LMAO , this is why i didn't want to play the sub game lol , gaara has to literally move then physically replace himself with a clone lol.
The tech is beyond broken because it means that people like p1 sakura have god level speed along with anyone who has the jutsu , so if gaara is fast enough to do all that then why wouldn't Neji be fast enough to intercept by using his own sub god speed??
Substition is too broken bro , it cant be used in debate DWL.
It doesn't seem like Gaara could have physically moved though in such a short time between Lee closing his eyes and opening them...what he subbed with was a shell and not a sand clone. (Sand clone has its own entry in the first databook and it specifically states it never fully takes the form of Gaara and remains as sand. [
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But still you're right. Substitution seems too hax xD I even made a thread on it when i was young, ugly and bad with words in 2013 XD -->
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Perhaps i should go back and re-read when substitution was introduced XD Though it does seem like Kishi removed it entirely in part 2?
But it is something Gaara already used to escape and counter an attack in canon so removing it from my points is kinda tough xD Though if i remove it then i'll need absolute proof Jyuken can bypass Gaara's sand armor.
And lol for the Lee foothold part..Lee isn't solid enough for Neji to generate the lift off he'll need.
All shunshin is basically nigh instant , especially if more chakra is used and gaara has jin level reserves lol.
In other words, Gaara's shunshin is faster than Neji's? xd
Dwl that gaara , the good old days when Naruto used to be a show about Ninjas.
-Jirobo's and Naruto's cases were heavily aided by PIS wjich means they cant be used in a debate imo and logically neji would have his 360dv turned on while fighting a ninja like gaara.
Also stealth does not = speed , i could use the arguement and say kidomaru is more sneaky than Lee , but it doesn't mean faster.
PIS? I gather the P and I should stand for 'plot induced' but i don't know what the S can stand for. Scenario? If that is the case though i understand the PIS for Naruto but for Jirobo? Why use a PI(S)? against Neji for Jirobo?
Neji logically should have had his 360dv on against Jirobo but didn't. Hiashi stated he could see the adept Shinobi in the horde of white Zetsu coming from the ocean but didn't notice Hizashi until another Hyuga told him to look in a certain direction. I don't want to bring down the Byakugan though..it's my fav dojutsu xD
As for the stealth part, i understand that lol..But what Jirobo used there wasn't speed but stealth. You also said we can't use it for a debate since it was PIS but you have to realize the speed feat of Neji at the end of his fight with Kido was sort of PIS too.
For some reason Kido opted not to cut the thread like he did many times before that and Neji had time to think about his fight with Naruto + Decide he wasn't going to give up + cut the thread + stagger a little + travel over 50 metres and catch Kido who surprisingly hadn't hit the ground yet.
All these happened while Kido was presumably falling with the speed of gravity which i believe is somewhere between 9.8m/s[sup]2[/sup]? He was even on an interconnecting branch [
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] not any extraordinarily tall tree. But i'll be damned if i ever take away the speed feat from Neji XD
U like versus colosseum that much ? then ill try to spice it up.
Who is ur fav original? and vamp from tvd? along with fav girl?
Mine is Klaus/elijah as number 1 followed by marcel second.
Damon in tvd and katherine/rebekah as fav females.
Heck yeah.. It's so fun reading old vs debates especially surrounding Gaara, Hyuga, Sakura (because they are funny), Minato, Tsunade, Kakashi..i like others but these ones are more interesting to me XD
And yeah Klaus and Elijah solo. Elijah's manner of speaking is boss.
For females i like the witch..claire? and Klaus' baby's mum. I don't really like rebecah though but from tvd Katherine was boss. Was sad when she was sealed sorta XD Caroline too is okay. I used to like Stefan until my alllegiance switched to Damon.
Kido can choose to make it wide , which he thought would've worked but he underistimated Neji's striking speed.
lol the manga can be confusing. The scan you posted is ch 83 pg 7 but this is ch 83 pg 6
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It's strongly implied Gaara is already wearing the armor so i have no idea what's going on in page 7 XD
Thats true but i call it PIS to be honest , flying around and knocking gaara all over like a ball was PIS since lee could've attacked ntn but his face LOL.
Even Sasuke breached the armor on his cheek with a punch followed by a kick dwl.
This is irrelevant , but Sasuke could've also roasted Gaara in his sand shell instead of trying taijutsu or wasting chakra on chidori lol , PIS Bro.
But it wasn't PIS because if Lee continually attacked a single spot the shield of sand would have without a doubt caught up. Lee was extremely fast but its not like he was so fast the shield of sand was completely out of the picture.
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Yes Sasuke breached it but it wasn't destroyed completely. lol it was stated by Sasuke later that his fire had no effect on the sand.
Depends on how far underground the mole goes , if its only covered by a thin amount of ground like gaara is covered by a thin layer of sand , then jyuken would still hit the mole , kinda like hinata bypassing BM Naruto's thin chakra armor.
It doesn't seem like Gaara could have physically moved though in such a short time between Lee closing his eyes and opening them...what he subbed with was a shell and not a sand clone. (Sand clone has its own entry in the first databook and it specifically states it never fully takes the form of Gaara and remains as sand. [
But it is something Gaara already used to escape and counter an attack in canon so removing it from my points is kinda tough xD Though if i remove it then i'll need absolute proof Jyuken can bypass Gaara's sand armor.
Ur gonna have to prove that Gaaras sand has the exact same properties as kido's fluid which blocks chakra and is a type of metal which i have proof that metal doesn't hinder chakra since Neji struck hinata's tenketsu through her headband , lol and if u persist with the sub game , then Neji out speeds Gaara by using his own sub speed LOL.
PIS? I gather the P and I should stand for 'plot induced' but i don't know what the S can stand for. Scenario? If that is the case though i understand the PIS for Naruto but for Jirobo? Why use a PI(S)? against Neji for Jirobo?
Neji logically should have had his 360dv on against Jirobo but didn't. Hiashi stated he could see the adept Shinobi in the horde of white Zetsu coming from the ocean but didn't notice Hizashi until another Hyuga told him to look in a certain direction. I don't want to bring down the Byakugan though..it's my fav dojutsu xD
As for the stealth part, i understand that lol..But what Jirobo used there wasn't speed but stealth. You also said we can't use it for a debate since it was PIS but you have to realize the speed feat of Neji at the end of his fight with Kido was sort of PIS too.
For some reason Kido opted not to cut the thread like he did many times before that and Neji had time to think about his fight with Naruto + Decide he wasn't going to give up + cut the thread + stagger a little + travel over 50 metres and catch Kido who surprisingly hadn't hit the ground yet.
All these happened while Kido was presumably falling with the speed of gravity which i believe is somewhere between 9.8m/s[sup]2[/sup]? He was even on an interconnecting branch [
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] not any extraordinarily tall tree. But i'll be damned if i ever take away the speed feat from Neji XD
For females i like the witch..claire? and Klaus' baby's mum. I don't really like rebecah though but from tvd Katherine was boss. Was sad when she was sealed sorta XD Caroline too is okay. I used to like Stefan until my alllegiance switched to Damon.
Bonnie is the witch and she is hottttttt along with sexy becks Lol , katherine is love and her sealing was funny , i think its gonna tie into season 8.
But it wasn't PIS because if Lee continually attacked a single spot the shield of sand would have without a doubt caught up. Lee was extremely fast but its not like he was so fast the shield of sand was completely out of the picture.
Okay lol i did a mini research on kawarimi and here's what i found:
Databook info:
Body Replacement Technique (Kawarimi no Jutsu)
Ninjutsu, E-rank, Supplementary
Users: Hatake kakashi, Uzumaki Naruto, et al.
That body – in an instant, it changes into a block of wood, taking the enemy by surprise!!
With this technique, one replaces their own body with a block of wood or something, the moment an attack lands. This creates an optical illusion, making the enemy think the attack was successful. From this, the user can use the lapse in the enemy’s attention to attack or flee from the battlefield. It’s a basic ninjutsu even taught at the Academy, but it’s a useful art that can be applied in variety of situations!!
Kakashi’s magnificent Body Replacement Technique. Naruto saw nothing else but him being hit by the attack.
The bold says in an instant and says nothing about running somewhere else, cutting a tree branch, going back to replace and then running away again.
Even its intro in the manga shows this:
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With the first example, the arrow shows only one direction of motion. And that ninja doesn't look to have cut any branch since he's standing on a full branch. One could argue the fact the tip of the arrows are painted black shows a two way movement...but that will be contradicted in the second example as Kakashi had no reason to return from the tree back to where he took the kagebunshin he switched himself with.
The second example specifically states quick switch as Kakashi was obviously fast enough to switch with Naruto's clone instead of the normal wood which we haven't seen anybody using kawarimi actually cut. Eg Pain using Kawarimi when there were obviously no trees in amegakure or at least where he fought with Jiraiya.
Ur gonna have to prove that Gaaras sand has the exact same properties as kido's fluid which blocks chakra and is a type of metal which i have proof that metal doesn't hinder chakra since Neji struck hinata's tenketsu through her headband , lol and if u persist with the sub game , then Neji out speeds Gaara by using his own sub speed LOL.
I'll look to do this at the bottom part of my post..as for the metal part, it's possible PIS since in the scan before that Neji's hand wasn't on the headband no? xd Neji out speeds Gaara by subbing too? I don't get it :lol
Ohh..but it can be used as it shows the 360dv isn't always on. When they have an enemy or something that needs focus in front of them their 360 isn't always active. [
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]-[
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] also the Jirobo case, the 5 seal barrier case where Neji found them only when he searched for them despite having the byakugan on before that (albeit instantly of course), the Hinata and Tobi case, Hiashi not noticing Hizashi case and the Kaguya case.
Again, it does. How many seconds do you think it took for Neji to think, decide, stagger, find Kido and then speed to his location? Anything greater than 5 seconds(and it's definitely more than 5 seconds) means its PIS because it only takes a total of 2 seconds for Kido to fall 64 feet(9.8m/s[sup]2[/sup] = 32feet). Which is far greater than the possible feet Neji had to cross to reach Kido. Yes Kido hit branches but it wasn't like he was hitting branches all through. 2 seconds of free-fall to reach 64 feet.
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Bonnie is the witch and she is hottttttt along with sexy becks Lol , katherine is love and her sealing was funny , i think its gonna tie into season 8.
So Gaara removed his armor(which wasn't shown) only to wear it again just to show us the process? I doubt it and besides, when his sand shield is thin, it has still been shown to be stronger than the armor. I could bring a scan but it's a shippuden scan?
How could the sand catch up when Lee would still be slapping him around like a rag-doll only he's gonna focus his attacks on the face like these.
All the images you posted show incredible striking speed which Lee doesn't have if not he'll not need the 5th gate to beat part one Neji and besides the people attacking in the gifs are stationary...Gaara's sand will catch up. but i do agree Bruce Lee solos Gaara low diff
The bold was never said , if so bring me the scan.
I'm assuming the mole won't reach him because of how thick the layer of earth above him is?
Well i'll start with base Lee's strength. [
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][
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] That is Lee without gates breaking into the ground with his full arm like its butter and bringing out a tree trunk that is (i'm really poor with visual measurements) like 1.5 feet in length?
Anyway this Lee had his power amped up by gates and could't eradicate any part of Gaara's armor with a single blow so i'm guessing that armor probably has thickness comparable to a good number of feet below the ground and you yourself seem to think depending on how far a mole goes, Jyuken might not reach it.
And then we have this:
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Shikamaru who had witnessed Neji's battles with Naruto and Hinata and even Neji himself opted to use Chouji's destructive power at the back of the dome instead of Neji's Jyuken. Surely he could have used his Jyuken to strike Jirobo who was touching that wall right?
Lmaooo....bro I want to start with saying the Klaus' gifs totally owned this post XD Klaus is so badass tf XD
Okay lol i did a mini research on kawarimi and here's what i found:
Databook info:
Body Replacement Technique (Kawarimi no Jutsu)
Ninjutsu, E-rank, Supplementary
Users: Hatake kakashi, Uzumaki Naruto, et al.
That body – in an instant, it changes into a block of wood, taking the enemy by surprise!!
With this technique, one replaces their own body with a block of wood or something, the moment an attack lands. This creates an optical illusion, making the enemy think the attack was successful. From this, the user can use the lapse in the enemy’s attention to attack or flee from the battlefield. It’s a basic ninjutsu even taught at the Academy, but it’s a useful art that can be applied in variety of situations!!
Kakashi’s magnificent Body Replacement Technique. Naruto saw nothing else but him being hit by the attack.
The bold says in an instant and says nothing about running somewhere else, cutting a tree branch, going back to replace and then running away again.
Even its intro in the manga shows this:
You must be registered for see images
With the first example, the arrow shows only one direction of motion. And that ninja doesn't look to have cut any branch since he's standing on a full branch. One could argue the fact the tip of the arrows are painted black shows a two way movement...but that will be contradicted in the second example as Kakashi had no reason to return from the tree back to where he took the kagebunshin he switched himself with.
The second example specifically states quick switch as Kakashi was obviously fast enough to switch with Naruto's clone instead of the normal wood which we haven't seen anybody using kawarimi actually cut. Eg Pain using Kawarimi when there were obviously no trees in amegakure or at least where he fought with Jiraiya.
I'll look to do this at the bottom part of my post..as for the metal part, it's possible PIS since in the scan before that Neji's hand wasn't on the headband no? xd Neji out speeds Gaara by subbing too? I don't get it :lol
Remember how boruto used his clone as a foothold in mid-air? Neji does the same with to the unknowing lee , but if push comes to shove he can use substitution to instantly swap places then shunshin around the unknowing gaara.:yeah:
Ohh..but it can be used as it shows the 360dv isn't always on. When they have an enemy or something that needs focus in front of them their 360 isn't always active. [
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]-[
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] also the Jirobo case, the 5 seal barrier case where Neji found them only when he searched for them despite having the byakugan on before that (albeit instantly of course), the Hinata and Tobi case, Hiashi not noticing Hizashi case and the Kaguya case.
The reason i said they cant be used is simple , Neji would have no reason to not have his 360Dv on against a enemy he knows can control sand , meaning he'd want to keep watch on the sand and gaara simultaneously to not leave himself open.
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What would Neji be studying with Byakugan for him to not have his 360Dv on against Gaara??
Again, it does. How many seconds do you think it took for Neji to think, decide, stagger, find Kido and then speed to his location? Anything greater than 5 seconds(and it's definitely more than 5 seconds) means its PIS because it only takes a total of 2 seconds for Kido to fall 64 feet(9.8m/s[sup]2[/sup] = 32feet). Which is far greater than the possible feet Neji had to cross to reach Kido. Yes Kido hit branches but it wasn't like he was hitting branches all through. 2 seconds of free-fall to reach 64 feet.
The power of shunshin should not be underestimated , it just shows that Neji has a fast shunshin since its a speed feat not a plot induced scenario lol.
So Gaara removed his armor(which wasn't shown) only to wear it again just to show us the process? I doubt it and besides, when his sand shield is thin, it has still been shown to be stronger than the armor. I could bring a scan but it's a shippuden scan?
He removed it because it was cracked from Lee's punch , so he decided to reinforce it with more , along with Kishi showing us the proccess since the only place for him to get sand , is from the sand around him unless u think he can instantly create sand underground and wrap it around himself nigh instantly?
All the images you posted show incredible striking speed which Lee doesn't have if not he'll not need the 5th gate to beat part one Neji and besides the people attacking in the gifs are stationary...Gaara's sand will catch up. but i do agree Bruce Lee solos Gaara low diff
Unweighted Lee can strike Gaara's auto sand almost simlutaneosuly while moving around him lol.
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1st Gate Lee displayed striking speed on par with any in my gifs.
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Yet u think 3rd and/or forth Gated Lee cant continously trash Gaara's face while knocking him around the stage at great pace??? , GATED Lee easily and i mean easily pulls off comparable or greater striking speed feats than any person in the gifs i shown lol.
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The Sand would never keep up since he's literally controlling gaara's movemnts with his hits and can drag him would the stage and completly destroy his face when stoping at each end of the arena.
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Things like this , childs play for Unweighted Lee much less gated.
No , the chakra would still pass through the earth , but would still have a limit to how far it would go unless Neji decides to channel his Chakra through it , which can increase the range to even 50m but would have no impact making it useless.
] That is Lee without gates breaking into the ground with his full arm like its butter and bringing out a tree trunk that is (i'm really poor with visual measurements) like 1.5 feet in length?
Anyway this Lee had his power amped up by gates and could't eradicate any part of Gaara's armor with a single blow so i'm guessing that armor probably has thickness comparable to a good number of feet below the ground and you yourself seem to think depending on how far a mole goes, Jyuken might not reach it.
Because Gaara's sand has shown to be much more durable than normal soil on the earth but again ntn indicates that Gaara's sand has the abiily to block chakra from passing through which has ntn to do with Lee , the same way soil on the ground would do ntn to hinder chakra passing through it just like thin sand.
Kido's golden armor has shown to be different and so we cant share it feats with sand just like we cant share different oils like the toads and the 2nd mizukage.
Shikamaru who had witnessed Neji's battles with Naruto and Hinata and even Neji himself opted to use Chouji's destructive power at the back of the dome instead of Neji's Jyuken. Surely he could have used his Jyuken to strike Jirobo who was touching that wall right?
Because choji's chakra is built up internally which expand his body and gets him ready for his jutsu , while Neji was unable to do anything since his Chakra would get zapped instantly and kiba's was far too weak to do the job.
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Sorry for the late reply , been having a crazy life as of late lol.
Lmao..tbh i don't know anymore XD But the databook saying "One replaces their body with a block of wood the moment an attack lands" leads me to believe that we've all been looking at the substitution technique wrong..It even goes on to mention something like optical illusion...so probably it's a mini genjutsu? xD Irdk anymore tbh XD
Nope , Neji's hand/finger was dead set on the headband with the first hit.
So Neji struck her twice there? Because in the next image/scan after the enlarged one, his hand isn't on the headband :lol
Remember how boruto used his clone as a foothold in mid-air? Neji does the same with to the unknowing lee , but if push comes to shove he can use substitution to instantly swap places then shunshin around the unknowing gaara.:yeah:
Haha i haven't seen the boruto movie..but he makes an unknowing Lee a foothold? I don't think that'll work..Lee isn't that solid ^^ It'll be different if he knows and makes himself sturdier but Neji would have to tell him that and by then Neji might be on his way down.
Use substitution to instantly swap places and then shunshin? All before he falls? Plus i thought 360dv and x-ray were different? Because he would need X-ray to find Gaara if he subs.
The eye brow raising Klaus is too funny omg XD Where are you getting these gifs XD
Nope , levels incorperate even shunshin , which is why Gai shunshin>>>Kakashi's along with Hebi Sause having a notable shunshin among others.
I see...Part 1 Gaara's shunshin was depicted to be very fast though. It takes only 13 milliseconds for a human's brain to register and interpret visual information ..but by the time Baki, Asuma and Gai mentally registered the match up on that screen, Gaara had already shunshin-(ed?) xD to the stage.
Elijah's shunshin is slow af though XD
The reason i said they cant be used is simple , Neji would have no reason to not have his 360Dv on against a enemy he knows can control sand , meaning he'd want to keep watch on the sand and gaara simultaneously to not leave himself open.
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What would Neji be studying with Byakugan for him to not have his 360Dv on against Gaara??
Well because Neji might be a genius but in part 1 especially he wasn't exceptionally battle smart. When Naruto opted to use Kagebunshin in Jirobo's dome, Neji said
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which we know wasn't the case because at the end of the day, the back of the dome wasn't heavily shielded with chakra.
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Yes Gaara controls sand...but Jirobo was also an earth user. Almost similar but he didn't have his 360dv on against him.
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Thats true!!!! , but again that scenario is irrelevant to this one.
But it kind of does since sand is earth based and Jirobo's earth....is earth based XD
The power of shunshin should not be underestimated , it just shows that Neji has a fast shunshin since its a speed feat not a plot induced scenario lol.
Haha..but it is PIS. It's really impossible except his shunshin is similar to FTG. Kido should have hit the ground wayyy before Neji no matter how fast could reach him. I mean Neji is even shown running right? Kido was probably just over 50 metres but free fall for just 1 second is already more than half of that.
Yep , the dialog is really great especially Klaus's use of words is epic.
Thats just her character , remember vampires in TVD are like Uchiha's with their emotions hightened so i feel for her.
lol actually this mini discussion of originals has made me realize how it has some similarities with Naruto..Shunshin, emotion triggering powers XD
Caroline still solos her though
He removed it because it was cracked from Lee's punch , so he decided to reinforce it with more , along with Kishi showing us the proccess since the only place for him to get sand , is from the sand around him unless u think he can instantly create sand underground and wrap it around himself nigh instantly?
He removed it? You sure? That wasn't shown. He was already wearing the armor though and if he did remove it, it was probably to make him despair a little and he just wore it back.. Actually do you think the sand armor has chakra infused in it? If so, that is wrong.
Unweighted Lee can strike Gaara's auto sand almost simlutaneosuly while moving around him lol.
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1st Gate Lee displayed striking speed on par with any in my gifs.
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Yet u think 3rd and/or forth Gated Lee cant continously trash Gaara's face while knocking him around the stage at great pace??? , GATED Lee easily and i mean easily pulls off comparable or greater striking speed feats than any person in the gifs i shown lol.
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The Sand would never keep up since he's literally controlling gaara's movemnts with his hits and can drag him would the stage and completly destroy his face when stoping at each end of the arena.
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Things like this , childs play for Unweighted Lee much less gated.
Whoa where is the gif of red Lee punching that dude from?
Great points here btw..disagree with unweighted Lee though as that Lee was only moving around and not moving with Gaara. Besides that Lee didn't have the strength when first gate Lee experienced pain hitting Gaara continuously.
True , another inconsistency since Teen SM Naruto in training could tank that sword yet RSM Adult Naruto failed.
No , the chakra would still pass through the earth , but would still have a limit to how far it would go unless Neji decides to channel his Chakra through it , which can increase the range to even 50m but would have no impact making it useless.
I see..Neji can increase the range. A plausible idea..but why didn't he use it against Jirobo's dome?
Because Gaara's sand has shown to be much more durable than normal soil on the earth but again ntn indicates that Gaara's sand has the abiily to block chakra from passing through which has ntn to do with Lee , the same way soil on the ground would do ntn to hinder chakra passing through it just like thin sand.
Kido's golden armor has shown to be different and so we cant share it feats with sand just like we cant share different oils like the toads and the 2nd mizukage.
Yeah. you're right ^^ Kido's armor and Gaara's armor are different..
Because choji's chakra is built up internally which expand his body and gets him ready for his jutsu , while Neji was unable to do anything since his Chakra would get zapped instantly and kiba's was far too weak to do the job.
But Neji uses Gentle fist. It shouldn't have mattered if Jirobo absorbed it because it would have damaged his internal organs much like how it damaged Kido's when it entered him. Neji couldn't see Jirobo and didn't attempt to gentle fist him either when he was behind a layer of earth.
If there's a logical explanation for this, i'll drop the whole argument because it now seems Byakugan/gentle fist was useless when faced with inorganic materials (Earth/rocks) in part 1.
Sorry for the late reply , been having a crazy life as of late lol.
Lmao..tbh i don't know anymore XD But the databook saying "One replaces their body with a block of wood the moment an attack lands" leads me to believe that we've all been looking at the substitution technique wrong..It even goes on to mention something like optical illusion...so probably it's a mini genjutsu? xD Irdk anymore tbh XD
Haha i haven't seen the boruto movie..but he makes an unknowing Lee a foothold? I don't think that'll work..Lee isn't that solid ^^ It'll be different if he knows and makes himself sturdier but Neji would have to tell him that and by then Neji might be on his way down.
Use substitution to instantly swap places and then shunshin? All before he falls? Plus i thought 360dv and x-ray were different? Because he would need X-ray to find Gaara if he subs.
If he instantly swap places with a log then it can be done before he falls , also 360dv is all he'd need to see Gaara since its max range is 50m and no Sub has ever been shown to go even half that distance.
So Neji subs when Gaara subs then already prepping shunshin he outpaces the sand then strikes Gaara.
I see...Part 1 Gaara's shunshin was depicted to be very fast though. It takes only 13 milliseconds for a human's brain to register and interpret visual information ..but by the time Baki, Asuma and Gai mentally registered the match up on that screen, Gaara had already shunshin-(ed?) xD to the stage.
Well because Neji might be a genius but in part 1 especially he wasn't exceptionally battle smart. When Naruto opted to use Kagebunshin in Jirobo's dome, Neji said
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which we know wasn't the case because at the end of the day, the back of the dome wasn't heavily shielded with chakra.
They needed a physical attack , jyuken cant work since the chakra is incorperated and would've instantly been taken the moment it becomes external, meaning Neji was useless in that situation.
Yes but again , different situations cant be used to share a scenario in a debate like this , we have to use logic and ntn suggest that Neji would have no reason to scan Gaara with piercing eye while in active combat not to mention air-born.
Yea but jirobo earth wall has Chakra running arount it that not onlu absorbs chakra nigh instantly , but also regenerates , and ntn suggest Gaara's sand would do ntn to stop chkara from passing through just like the earth wouldn't stop it either lol.
Haha..but it is PIS. It's really impossible except his shunshin is similar to FTG. Kido should have hit the ground wayyy before Neji no matter how fast could reach him. I mean Neji is even shown running right? Kido was probably just over 50 metres but free fall for just 1 second is already more than half of that.
LOL Yea they even have genjutsu , blood byakugan , shintenshin no jutsu , Seals , Nature energy , Preta path
and even KA Level genjutsu with Silas that can be spammed.
He removed it? You sure? That wasn't shown. He was already wearing the armor though and if he did remove it, it was probably to make him despair a little and he just wore it back.. Actually do you think the sand armor has chakra infused in it? If so, that is wrong.
Removed was the wrong word my bad , but he did add more to it and it surely has chakra since it came from his auto sand which has chakra , so ntn suggest it wouldn't unless u have proof the sand came from underground?
Great points here btw..disagree with unweighted Lee though as that Lee was only moving around and not moving with Gaara. Besides that Lee didn't have the strength when first gate Lee experienced pain hitting Gaara continuously.
But Neji uses Gentle fist. It shouldn't have mattered if Jirobo absorbed it because it would have damaged his internal organs much like how it damaged Kido's when it entered him. Neji couldn't see Jirobo and didn't attempt to gentle fist him either when he was behind a layer of earth.
If there's a logical explanation for this, i'll drop the whole argument because it now seems Byakugan/gentle fist was useless when faced with inorganic materials (Earth/rocks) in part 1.
Gentle fist was useless since it incorperates external chakra use , all he would've done is waste chakra , the dome absorns chakra instantly so neji would just feed it.
lol why would he move his hand slightly downward? To feel Hinata's neck? :lol That particular scan is too weird because for tenketsu strikes, you touch and leave.. not feel up the opponent right? xD
I'm sorry for hassling you so much man..I do think it's possible it's just at that point i don't think they'll have been able to fight cooperatively seeing as Lee mostly trained alone and Neji was on a very serious high horse about being a genius and stuff xD
If he instantly swap places with a log then it can be done before he falls , also 360dv is all he'd need to see Gaara since its max range is 50m and no Sub has ever been shown to go even half that distance.
So Neji subs when Gaara subs then already prepping shunshin he outpaces the sand then strikes Gaara.
But if Gaara subs behind a tree or subs into his sand like vs Lee, X-ray is what will find him. Does 360dv have x-ray too..i can't recollect atm....anyway i'm dropping this xD
Yea he had a nice shunshin , surely faster than Sakura's but i'd say Shikamru displayed a superior shunshin gainst temari.
Aww mehn..you're right. I just remembered when he was first introduced..He smashed a restaurant's window with 3 coins and shunshined so fast it kind of looked like he was gone before the three coins made contact XD
They needed a physical attack , jyuken cant work since the chakra is incorperated and would've instantly been taken the moment it becomes external, meaning Neji was useless in that situation.
Yes but again , different situations cant be used to share a scenario in a debate like this , we have to use logic and ntn suggest that Neji would have no reason to scan Gaara with piercing eye while in active combat not to mention air-born.
But Jyuken isn't normal chakra is it? If it gets into an opponents system, it wrecks organs. So if he had filled his palm with Jyuken and got absorbed it could have wrecked Jirobo since Jirobo was sucking in their chakra.
If we have been discussing no intel (which i believe we have) the Jirobo case would be exactly the case with the Gaara case. The Earth Jirobo could use to his advantage waS# under and behind Neji but he didn't have his 360dv active.
Yea but jirobo earth wall has Chakra running arount it that not onlu absorbs chakra nigh instantly , but also regenerates , and ntn suggest Gaara's sand would do ntn to stop chkara from passing through just like the earth wouldn't stop it either lol.
The bold means the dome regenerating doesn't mean much here since the Jyuken would still pass through. And yes the dome absorbs chakra but it was feeding it to Jirobo..All Neji needed to do really was just use the gentle fist and stream chakra at any point tbh...seeing as he could keep his byakugan active at intervals.
But really though this Jirobo case is weird...Neji could see the chakra around the dome but couldn't see where the chakra was converging at and couldn't see Jirobo himself? xD
Klaus has shown too many emotions in this show tbh XD
A speed feat cant be used as a PIS , his shunshin is just super fast and his datadbook stats support this.
I thought a PIS was an illogical scenario like Neji not having his 360 active against Jirobo? That speed feat of catching Kido before he landed despite thinking of the birds and his blindspot + his fight with Naruto.....and so on while Kido had been falling the whole time is kinda illogical.
The empire state building is 381m high iirc and because of a project i once did, i was able to know it takes only 9 seconds to hit the ground if you fall from its roof. It'll take like 2-4 seconds longer if the human tries to slow his fall by opening himself up. Kido wasn't on a 381m high tree and he was falling head first breaking the air resistance flawlessly. He should have hit the ground before Neji even cut that web and if we factor the two branches we saw him hit, he should have hit the ground sometime between Neji cutting that web and staggering forward :lol
LOL Yea they even have genjutsu , blood byakugan , shintenshin no jutsu , Seals , Nature energy , Preta path
and even KA Level genjutsu with Silas that can be spammed.
Of course XD Silas was sealed Our Vampire Diaries Kaguya Can't believe i forgot about compulsion XD I really think i'm going to pick up Originals now XD
Lol yeah..I mean Katherine baby shook Caroline low diff but she was running from the original family which means Rebeccah wrecks Caroline laughable/neg diff
Removed was the wrong word my bad , but he did add more to it and it surely has chakra since it came from his auto sand which has chakra , so ntn suggest it wouldn't unless u have proof the sand came from underground?
Well, Kakashi and Kankuro's statement shows he was already wearing it before the battle started so he could have gotten the armor from regular sand while in the forest of death. It's also stated it takes up a large volume of his chakra and stamina which sort of proves it isn't Chakra infused as his specially made sand does nothing to the volume of chakra he has.
A movie , and that was only 1st gated Lee.
He only experienced pain due to the gate , he already showed enough striking speed while moving to cement my claim.
How could he when he chakra would vanish instantly??????????
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Gentle fist was useless since it incorperates external chakra use , all he would've done is waste chakra , the dome absorns chakra instantly so neji would just feed it.
But the chakra vanishing wasn't that instant since he could sustain byakugan long enough to see his and Naruto's chakra being sucked. I was also of the opinion Jyuken chakra is different. Like we know for a fact how destructive base rasengan is..but it's the grinding and explosion that causes the damage and not the fact that the rasengan simply touched the body that causes it right?
Just have to stay strong bro , and give thanks for life.
lol why would he move his hand slightly downward? To feel Hinata's neck? :lol That particular scan is too weird because for tenketsu strikes, you touch and leave.. not feel up the opponent right? xD
I'm sorry for hassling you so much man..I do think it's possible it's just at that point i don't think they'll have been able to fight cooperatively seeing as Lee mostly trained alone and Neji was on a very serious high horse about being a genius and stuff xD
They were still a team for longer than Naruto/Saus and Neji showed that he was very concerned about lee and showed friendship at the time in the forest.
But if Gaara subs behind a tree or subs into his sand like vs Lee, X-ray is what will find him. Does 360dv have x-ray too..i can't recollect atm....anyway i'm dropping this xD
Aww mehn..you're right. I just remembered when he was first introduced..He smashed a restaurant's window with 3 coins and shunshined so fast it kind of looked like he was gone before the three coins made contact XD
But Jyuken isn't normal chakra is it? If it gets into an opponents system, it wrecks organs. So if he had filled his palm with Jyuken and got absorbed it could have wrecked Jirobo since Jirobo was sucking in their chakra.
The bold means the dome regenerating doesn't mean much here since the Jyuken would still pass through. And yes the dome absorbs chakra but it was feeding it to Jirobo..All Neji needed to do really was just use the gentle fist and stream chakra at any point tbh...seeing as he could keep his byakugan active at intervals.
Jyuken could never pass through and the reason he had byakugan active is simple because Chakra is used internally to sustain it , internal chakra is absorbed more slowly that external usage which is why Neji was literally useless since all his attacks required him to expel chakra externally.
But really though this Jirobo case is weird...Neji could see the chakra around the dome but couldn't see where the chakra was converging at and couldn't see Jirobo himself? xD
I thought a PIS was an illogical scenario like Neji not having his 360 active against Jirobo? That speed feat of catching Kido before he landed despite thinking of the birds and his blindspot + his fight with Naruto.....and so on while Kido had been falling the whole time is kinda illogical.
The empire state building is 381m high iirc and because of a project i once did, i was able to know it takes only 9 seconds to hit the ground if you fall from its roof. It'll take like 2-4 seconds longer if the human tries to slow his fall by opening himself up. Kido wasn't on a 381m high tree and he was falling head first breaking the air resistance flawlessly. He should have hit the ground before Neji even cut that web and if we factor the two branches we saw him hit, he should have hit the ground sometime between Neji cutting that web and staggering forward :lol
Lol They live in a world where people can travel faster than the speed of sound and can travel great distances in the blink of an eye , its literally impossible for us to call a speed feat PIS because he already showed a great shunshin feat when he blitzed around a army of clones without being seen or touched.
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This feat right here supasses all speed feats shown by Sasuke against Gaara , this is because Sasuke from his fight with Naruto on the rooftop could never hope of pulling the same stunt without getting tracked and grabbed by Naruto's clones.
Of course XD Silas was sealed Our Vampire Diaries Kaguya Can't believe i forgot about compulsion XD I really think i'm going to pick up Originals now XD
Lol yeah..I mean Katherine baby shook Caroline low diff but she was running from the original family which means Rebeccah wrecks Caroline laughable/neg diff
Well, Kakashi and Kankuro's statement shows he was already wearing it before the battle started so he could have gotten the armor from regular sand while in the forest of death. It's also stated it takes up a large volume of his chakra and stamina which sort of proves it isn't Chakra infused as his specially made sand does nothing to the volume of chakra he has.
But the chakra vanishing wasn't that instant since he could sustain byakugan long enough to see his and Naruto's chakra being sucked. I was also of the opinion Jyuken chakra is different. Like we know for a fact how destructive base rasengan is..but it's the grinding and explosion that causes the damage and not the fact that the rasengan simply touched the body that causes it right?
I don't know tbh...I see no reason why he had to move his hand downward by what?..an inch? But i do think Kishi made a mistake there that he could not correct...The question for me is which was the mistake? Except of course you know a logical reason why he moved his whole palm downward?
They were still a team for longer than Naruto/Saus and Neji showed that he was very concerned about lee and showed friendship at the time in the forest.
Jyuken could never pass through and the reason he had byakugan active is simple because Chakra is used internally to sustain it , internal chakra is absorbed more slowly that external usage which is why Neji was literally useless since all his attacks required him to expel chakra externally.
This is actually true...the fact Shika initiated a convo with Jirobo to get his location doesn't mean Neji couldn't see him since Shika didn't ask Neji.
Lol They live in a world where people can travel faster than the speed of sound and can travel great distances in the blink of an eye , its literally impossible for us to call a speed feat PIS because he already showed a great shunshin feat when he blitzed around a army of clones without being seen or touched.
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This feat right here supasses all speed feats shown by Sasuke against Gaara , this is because Sasuke from his fight with Naruto on the rooftop could never hope of pulling the same stunt without getting tracked and grabbed by Naruto's clones.
Which characters travel at the speed of sound and great distances in the blink of an eye? :lol
He actually could be seen but wasn't able to be touched...He can maneuver quickly just like in the Kido fight where he dodged daggers point blank. Sasuke has sharingan but really he can only precog the clones that were in his visual space...Byakugan is 360 and that's why i still think Hyuga taijutsu is the best tbh.
Off topic: but reading through old Sakura vs Neji threads i saw claims that Sakura can punch the ground before Neji finishes or even starts his 64 palm strike. What do you think of this?
Lol i think the Tvd Kaguya will be the villain in season 8 that was shown in season 7.
Jyuken Chakra a few chapters later..Notice Neji also exclaims Jyuken?
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A darker color..This was what made me believe Jyuken itself was different from normal chakra..more like poisoned chakra and if Neji could see Jirobo and see him sucking the chakra too, he should have let him suck Jyuken and that would have ended that fight quickly.
Pretty loveable cast i must say myself lol and yes u just have to endure and stay clean hearted.
I don't know tbh...I see no reason why he had to move his hand downward by what?..an inch? But i do think Kishi made a mistake there that he could not correct...The question for me is which was the mistake? Except of course you know a logical reason why he moved his whole palm downward?
He did so because he had already hit her and the damage was done , meaning he had no reason to keep his hand there especially since she could still attack him.
There is no mistake and it cant be viewed as such lol.
Thats true but there is numerous evidence showing that he cared for lee especially when considering how long they were a team which means that they were likely more coordinated than Naruto/Sasuke.
This is actually true...the fact Shika initiated a convo with Jirobo to get his location doesn't mean Neji couldn't see him since Shika didn't ask Neji.
He actually could be seen but wasn't able to be touched...He can maneuver quickly just like in the Kido fight where he dodged daggers point blank. Sasuke has sharingan but really he can only precog the clones that were in his visual space...Byakugan is 360 and that's why i still think Hyuga taijutsu is the best tbh.
He was only seen before he started running , but i guess a arguement can be made that Sasuke wasn't trying to run through them like Neji did , but no where was it shown or implied that Sasuke's speed was any problem at all for naruto and his clones to track , like it was for Gaara so its safe to say that CE Neji is faster or on par with CE Sasuke and CE Unweighted Lee in shunshin , only his Reaction reflex is tiers above them.
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Still one of the greatest reaction feats i'v ever seen in Naruto , his Taijutsu and reflex was already jonin level.
Off topic: but reading through old Sakura vs Neji threads i saw claims that Sakura can punch the ground before Neji finishes or even starts his 64 palm strike. What do you think of this?
If she is in range then she gets blitzed since its basically nigh instant combo , also no way is sakura doing that before getting hit in the forehead with Air-palm LOL.
In those cases it makes sense that he already prepped sand armor , but it was clearlt stated that Gaara "Only" uses the armor when in a pinch since it takes so much chakra when applied , so ur basically saying Gaara always has his armor on which contradicts the manga.
Just showing u that Lee's movement speed and striking speed is fast enough , tho i also forgot wat the arguement was and am just having fun with the debate honestlt Lol
Ohh , i nver could get too into football/soccer Lol , eveytime i watched it as a kid it always took way too long for any side to score so i got bored instantly lol.
Jyuken Chakra a few chapters later..Notice Neji also exclaims Jyuken?
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A darker color..This was what made me believe Jyuken itself was different from normal chakra..more like poisoned chakra and if Neji could see Jirobo and see him sucking the chakra too, he should have let him suck Jyuken and that would have ended that fight quickly.
This is why im pissed that Kishi never elaborated on their powers more , but still wat ur saying is plausible but we just have to take it as Choji's moment so any other possible scenario's were ignored by kishi for that reason.
I want to start with saying the Klaus' gifs totally owned this post XD Klaus is so badass tf XD 