JJ Madara vs. RSM Naruto

[KidGamer65]

How is madara going to protect the tree and why can't naruto evade the super juubidamas? Why can't naruto just survive with onmyoton and gudou dama as well?

If Naruto attacks the tree Madara protects it with Susanoo. If Naruto attacks with something that can't be tanked then Madara repels it. Not sure how you expect him to evade 4 explosions that dwarf what V2 Juubi did, but when you can get me those feats I'll be glad to discuss it.

Proof Naruto has Onmyoton? Oh wait, don't bother. It doesn't exist.

If the juubidama isn't weaker than obito's chakra arms, then explain how the barrier works.

Just did.

Which means that the force of the explosion did not provide enough power for the barrier to deform enough to be broken while juubito's chakra arms did. Therefore juubito's chakra arms are able to exert more power than the juubidama does on the point of the barrier that it affects. So no, the super juubidamas are not a problem.

Because Juubito's chakra arms isn't an explosion, thus the majority of that energy can't be pushed out of the top like the Juubidama. All you are doing here is pretty much ignoring how the barrier works against explosions so you can support the idiotic notion that Naruto survives Quad Juubidama without damage.

Yet Naruto's avatar can withstand hits from Sasuke's PS slashes while the super juubidama doesn't exert as much force as juubito's chakra arms do on the barrier. So they hardly do anything.

You must be registered for see images

Sorry pal. Naruto took damage from his regular Bijuu Dama and Sasuke's Chidori. Quad Juubidama turns him to ash. Not debatable. The fact that all you can do is make flawed comparisons like the chakra arms nonsense while I have two attacks of the same kind as a comparison says enough. Then we have the fact that Obito's barrier>Hokage's barrier and Quad Juubidama>>>>V3 Juubidama.

And you don't even have evidence that Naruto's chakra arms are superior regardless. Clashing with Kaguya is irrelevant as that same Kaguya wrecked Sasuke's Susanoo with her chakra arms later on while Naruto needs Bijuu Dama (hint hint, far stronger than his physical strikes) to even hope of damaging Sasuke's Avatar.

Quality of the chakra powering the susanoo is what gives it its power, quantity is what allows kakashi to use it for long periods of time, the quality is the same as the madara who juubito took chakra from there's no arguing against that.

Doesn't mean that the quality of his chakra as a whole becomes the same from obtaining a small piece of Madara's chakra.

-All the shinobi alliance obtained Kurama's chakra yet it's nowhere near as strong as BM Naruto's own chakra or Kurama's own chakra.
-Kinkaku and Ginkaku's chakra isn't as strong as Naruto or Kurama's chakra.
-Those who have Hashirama's cells have his chakra, and it's not as strong as the source material's chakra.
-The people w/ the curse mark are using Oro's Senjutsu Chakra. Is their chakra on par with Orochimaru's? No. Not a chance in hell. Only Sasuke surpasses that and that's because of his own abilities.

And I can go on. Madara's chakra is Senjutsu so it will boost Kakashi's power accordingly, but arguing that Kakashi=Madara in chakra power is probably the second most ridiculous thing you can claim next to Naruto tanking the Quad Juubidama with no damage. :lol

The bolded is pretty much the only evidence your bringing to the table here. Why would shinra tensei work on gudoudamas?

-Sasuke's Avatar and Naruto's Avatar are physical equals post power up.
-Thus they are pre power up.
-Madara's far surpasses that as he matches SM Mokujin, which is>>Mokujin=Full Kurama in physical power.
-Madara's also surpasses Sasuke's in firepower and durability going off of his Legged Susanoo which by scaling is around his PS in overall power.

Thus Madara's PS>>>Sasuke's PS pre and post power up.

-The Gudo Dama aren't special first of all. Naruto hasn't shown Onmyoton so I have no idea what you are trying to imply here. Not to mention Shinra Tensei uses repulsive force. There is nothing to negate.

I don't see any reasoning behind naruto getting spanked when he uses his avatar.
Why does madara have the ability to use clones that can in turn use chakra avatars?

Because a character with inferior chakra reserves can do the same thing. Nothing else is a factor.

Everything you're claiming madara can do is theoretical.

Nope. Him having the Rinnegan's powers is fact. Him having Susanoo is fact.

 

[KidGamer65]

It's amazing how this guy can sit here and argue (with flawed logic at that) that Naruto's physical hits are superior to the Juubi Jinchuuriki's strongest attack.

 

[Warlocks]

naruto win

 

[Kunihi]

If Naruto attacks the tree Madara protects it with Susanoo. If Naruto attacks with something that can't be tanked then Madara repels it. Not sure how you expect him to evade 4 explosions that dwarf what V2 Juubi did, but when you can get me those feats I'll be glad to discuss it.

If madara can even repel naruto's attacks, naruto just sends another volley during the cooldown. Plus that's assuming madara can use his repulsion inside of susanoo, if it's outside he gets blitzed.

Proof Naruto has Onmyoton? Oh wait, don't bother. It doesn't exist.

He has the TSB and the same rikudou senjutsu chakra as hagoromo, why wouldn't he have onmyouton?

Because Juubito's chakra arms isn't an explosion, thus the majority of that energy can't be pushed out of the top like the Juubidama. All you are doing here is pretty much ignoring how the barrier works against explosions so you can support the idiotic notion that Naruto survives Quad Juubidama without damage.

That doesn't make sense, explosions work by sending energy in all directions from the point of detonation. If the bomb's blast can't stretch the barrier as much as juubito's arms stretch it at that point, then the only conclusion is that juubito's arms inflict more force on that point. If the bomb did do that, then the barrier would have popped .

You must be registered for see images

Sorry pal. Naruto took damage from his regular Bijuu Dama and Sasuke's Chidori. Quad Juubidama turns him to ash. Not debatable. The fact that all you can do is make flawed comparisons like the chakra arms nonsense while I have two attacks of the same kind as a comparison says enough. Then we have the fact that Obito's barrier>Hokage's barrier and Quad Juubidama>>>>V3 Juubidama.

It's not a regular explosion. If it was, then it would have been white, like all the other giant explosions. If it's just a regular explosion, that means the bijuu rasenshuriken that each of naruto's clones throw are even stronger than the bijuudama and chidori clash, and that normal bijuudama rasenshurikens are on a totally different level.

And you don't even have evidence that Naruto's chakra arms are superior regardless. Clashing with Kaguya is irrelevant as that same Kaguya wrecked Sasuke's Susanoo with her chakra arms later on while Naruto needs Bijuu Dama (hint hint, far stronger than his physical strikes) to even hope of damaging Sasuke's Avatar.

Kaguya used larger chakra arms to bust sasuke's susanoo, and Sasuke's susanoo wasn't even directly hit by the bijuudama as i've already explained via the chidori rasengan clashes of naruto and sasuke.

Doesn't mean that the quality of his chakra as a whole becomes the same from obtaining a small piece of Madara's chakra.

-All the shinobi alliance obtained Kurama's chakra yet it's nowhere near as strong as BM Naruto's own chakra or Kurama's own chakra.
-Kinkaku and Ginkaku's chakra isn't as strong as Naruto or Kurama's chakra.
-Those who have Hashirama's cells have his chakra, and it's not as strong as the source material's chakra.
-The people w/ the curse mark are using Oro's Senjutsu Chakra. Is their chakra on par with Orochimaru's? No. Not a chance in hell. Only Sasuke surpasses that and that's because of his own abilities.

And I can go on. Madara's chakra is Senjutsu so it will boost Kakashi's power accordingly, but arguing that Kakashi=Madara in chakra power is probably the second most ridiculous thing you can claim next to Naruto tanking the Quad Juubidama with no damage. :lol

IF that's the case, why don't the jutsu that clones use differ at all from the jutsu that the original uses?

Because a character with inferior chakra reserves can do the same thing. Nothing else is a factor.

That just shows you don't know how clones work. The ability to use jutsu through clones is not a function of just capacity to do so, it's also a function of skill using those clones. That's why naruto can't use multiple clones on the battlefield when he has others gathering senjutsu, same reason why BM Naruto doesn't get granted the ability to use multiple kurama avatars just because he has the chakra to do so.

Nope. Him having the Rinnegan's powers is fact. Him having Susanoo is fact.

Him being able to use susanoo while being the juubi jinchuriki is fact?
His rinnegan powers being able to do to naruto what you claim they will do is fact?

If madara's rinnegan powers actually worked like how you think they would, why didn't he just shinra tensei naruto's youton rasenshuriken or naruto away instead of attacking him with limbo? Why not absorb all the jutsu naruto and sasuke throw at him? Why not shinra tensei bijuudama rasenshuriken? Why didn't kaguya do that, or why didn't sasuke do that to naruto's attacks at VoTe?

 

[Kunihi]

It's amazing how this guy can sit here and argue (with flawed logic at that) that Naruto's physical hits are superior to the Juubi Jinchuuriki's strongest attack.

Take it up with the author who gave juubito the ability to break the barrier that the super juubidama couldn't. Kaguya busting sasuke's susanoo in just 5 punches just further proves that.

Plus, why is that absurd when naruto before even going into RSM can casually cut the shinjuu in half?

 

[KidGamer65]

If madara can even repel naruto's attacks, naruto just sends another volley during the cooldown. Plus that's assuming madara can use his repulsion inside of susanoo, if it's outside he gets blitzed.

If Madara blows his Gudo Dama over 70m away he can't control them.

He has the TSB and the same rikudou senjutsu chakra as hagoromo, why wouldn't he have onmyouton?

He has Rikudo Sage Mode.The only time Onymyoton was shown was when someone had the Juubi's power. Both Rikudo Senjutsu, two different modes so if you want to say that Naruto has Onymoton then you'll have to prove it as he's not a JJ.

That doesn't make sense, explosions work by sending energy in all directions from the point of detonation. If the bomb's blast can't stretch the barrier as much as juubito's arms stretch it at that point, then the only conclusion is that juubito's arms inflict more force on that point. If the bomb did do that, then the barrier would have popped .

Obito's arms didn't stretch the barrier outward, it pulled it inward and popped it.

It's not a regular explosion. If it was, then it would have been white, like all the other giant explosions. If it's just a regular explosion, that means the bijuu rasenshuriken that each of naruto's clones throw are even stronger than the bijuudama and chidori clash, and that normal bijuudama rasenshurikens are on a totally different level.

I've already gone through this with one of your alternate accounts so let's cut the BS. That explosion wasn't regular because of Chidori clashing with the Bijuu Dama. Anything and everything else is completely irrelevant and even your main argument is based on nothing.

Kaguya used larger chakra arms to bust sasuke's susanoo, and Sasuke's susanoo wasn't even directly hit by the bijuudama as i've already explained via the chidori rasengan clashes of naruto and sasuke.

Rasengan and Bijuu Dama aren't the same thing. Bijuu Dama's damage comes mostly from the explosion so Sasuke isn't going to magically take a ton more damage because instead of exploding feet away from him it actually hits him. Rasengan isn't like that and neither is Chidori.

IF that's the case, why don't the jutsu that clones use differ at all from the jutsu that the original uses?

Because that's the user's chakra. Kakashi obtaining a small piece of a stronger chakra doesn't change the fact that his weaker chakra is still involved in the mix.

That just shows you don't know how clones work. The ability to use jutsu through clones is not a function of just capacity to do so, it's also a function of skill using those clones. That's why naruto can't use multiple clones on the battlefield when he has others gathering senjutsu, same reason why BM Naruto doesn't get granted the ability to use multiple kurama avatars just because he has the chakra to do so.

What you are saying is literally based on nothing. Nothing at all. The thing that determines the level of techniques that clones can use are the quality of the clones, and Mokuton clones>Shadow clones. What determines the power of the clones is the amount of times the power was spread.

-Naruto can't use multiple clones on the battlefield while the others are gathering Senjutsu because that splits his attention too much. Has shit to do with the skill of his clone usage.

-BM Naruto can't use multiple Kurama Avatars because he doesn't have the chakra. Simple as that. Naruto is handed enough chakra to enter Bijuu Mode and he doesn't have enough chakra to clone his Avatar out of that pool that Kurama gives him. Hagoromo's power up doesn't boost skill level anyway so that being the reason why magically gained the ability to use Avatar clones doesn't even make a shred of sense. The only thing it does is boost chakra.

Him being able to use susanoo while being the juubi jinchuriki is fact?
His rinnegan powers being able to do to naruto what you claim they will do is fact?

Yup and yup. Unless you'd like to show me where Madara lost any abilities from gaining the Juubi, and unless you'd like to show me where Naruto's RS became so heavy and traveled with so much force that something dozens and dozens of times stronger than what slapped away Bijuu Dama in canon will fail here.

If madara's rinnegan powers actually worked like how you think they would, why didn't he just shinra tensei naruto's youton rasenshuriken or naruto away instead of attacking him with limbo? Why not absorb all the jutsu naruto and sasuke throw at him? Why not shinra tensei bijuudama rasenshuriken? Why didn't kaguya do that, or why didn't sasuke do that to naruto's attacks at VoTe?

So we are talking the "why didn't he" route huh?

1. One eye=Limited abilities. Try again.
2. Naruto and Sasuke didn't attack Madara w/ any big Ninjutsu after he obtained both his eyes so this isn't even something you should bother bringing up.
3. Kaguya is irrelevant since you can't prove she has the Six Paths Jutsu. Her having the Rinne Sharingan is irrelevant when it's different from the Rinnegan and when those Six Paths Jutsu were created after her time, by Hagoromo and HIS Rinnegan with HIS chakra. NOT her. If you want to prove that she learned them then go right ahead, I'll be waiting.
4. Sasuke not being able to do that is irrelevant as Madara>>Sasuke and he wasn't up against something far stronger than what Naruto used against Madara or Kaguya so this point is also irrelevant.

I can use the same argument and ask why Madara didn't use Mokuton to try and subdue the Bijuu even though it would've been an infinitely better decision than charging them unarmed with no Ninjutsu. Are you expecting people to say that what Madara did was the best course of action? Lol.

-Why didn't Edo Hashirama use Shinsuusenju against Edo Madara?
-Why didn't Obito use Bijuu Dama again against Naruto and Sasuke after they no longer had the alliance to bail them out?

 

[KidGamer65]

Take it up with the author who gave juubito the ability to break the barrier that the super juubidama couldn't. Kaguya busting sasuke's susanoo in just 5 punches just further proves that.

Plus, why is that absurd when naruto before even going into RSM can casually cut the shinjuu in half?

The author never gave Obito the ability to wreck his own barrier first of all. Second of all the author displayed how the barrier works against explosions and Obito's brute strength isn't an explosion, so I'm not sure where this nonsensical measure of yours is even coming from. Kaguya busting Sasuke's Susanoo is irrelevant because his Susanoo is nowhere near as durable as the Juubi's body nor can he take anything near the level of V2 Juubi's Bijuu Dama considering Naruto's regular Bijuu Dama can damage him.


And lol. Cutting the Shinju in half WITH NINJUTSU (one of his higher tiered Ninjutsu no less) and being massively stronger than JUUBIDAMA TIMES FREAKING 4 WITH PHYSICAL HITS W/O HIS AVATAR are two very different things. :lol

 

[isonworth18]

i think naruto wins this

he can have his kurama avatar use kokuos strength jutsu to make his avatar physically better, if he can over power kaguya, who shat on sasukes PS, then his avatar doing the same thing while using frog kata spanks madara's PS and even shinsuusenju, as madara is not more powerful than kaguya.

he makes a super sized rasenshuriken with all the bijuu elements and sticks his sword of nunoboko in it while his avatar with kokuos enhanced strength tosses it towards madara.

and in CQC his avatar with the kokuo buff can brawl with madara susanoo easily. also making chakra arms and clones with kokuo buff. maybe saiken to melt his susanoo if he blockes his hits or rasensuriken as melee weapons

 

[Lord Tywin]

^ So blind Madara can use V3, but DR JJ Madara who has both of his eyes (both eyes = full power = PS) can't use Susano'o? And Obito couldn't phase because of the Juubi in him, he never said anything about warping, which is still a Sharingan technique.

As we've seen, Madara didn't use susanoo even in the moments he absolutely needed it. Not sure what to say

 

[rinnegan human puppet]

As we've seen, Madara didn't use susanoo even in the moments he absolutely needed it. Not sure what to say

really?... when did he need susano after becoming JJ? the juubi magically makes its jins powers disappear :lol what a joke of a logic

OT, madara wins mid-high diff.

madaras avatar >> naruto's

madaras chakra poll >> naruto's

madaras firepower >> naruto's

madaras durability >> naruto's

literally the only thing that would
damage madara in narutos arsenal is his tail beast FRS used on kaguya because it would disrupt madaras bijuus. but that gets countered with shinra tensei if not tanked with PS. this is a stomp
thread, if madara makes meteors rain and charges up a quad juubidama at the same
time naruto is literally fkcked.

lol@ the 3 people saying naruto wins, some people still dont understand that madara is easily a tier above naruto and sasuke.

 

[NarutoX28]

I'm fine with Juubidara being unable to use Susano'o.

Even Hagoromo admits that Madara was trying to get close to Rikudou's and Kaguya's power. Hagoromo's power lacked the Sharingan abilities that made Kaguya so fearsome from Hagoromo's perspective and it makes sense for Juubidara not to have attained Kaguya's power until he awakened the Rinnesharingan. If Juubidara truly had access to the Sharingan's abilities, it would stand to reason that Madara possessed an ability that Rikudou would consider to be fearsome and would thus, have a power superior to Rikudou's, but that wasn't something that Rikudou implied at all.

Honestly, I agree with Kratos. I personally think the whole idea behind Juubidara possessing a Susano'o is pure fanfic.

 

[rinnegan human puppet]

Naruto can win. He needs a solid hit with Sage Art: SBDRS so that he can destabilize the Bijuu chakra and extract it all out via Ashura Avatar (you only said NE is restricted). As for Madara's main arsenal:

- Limbos are kept busy by 5 clones
- CT satellites are either busted or Naruto simply takes flight and completely evades and collision
- LRS takes out the Juubidama tree
- CST is tanked by AA

Getting through PS is the problem - JJ Madara's is stronger than Sasuke's, FBD attempts are interrupted, regular BD are tanked, so if Naruto gives the TSB to a clone and makes him fire and hit with 9 BDRS while he himself is waiting with the SBDRS and lands them before Madara reforms Susano'o he can pull it off.

madara makes ct meteor rain while charging up a quad juubidama tree and protects it with his own susano. what is naruto going to do? he's not getting passed madaras PS in time specially when meteors are dropping on him, naruto gets blown to hell.

naruto's sage art bijuu rasenshiruken get blown away with shinra tensei or tanked with PS.

naruto uses shadow clones madara does the same but more due to having larger chakra polls.

naruto's avatar is inferior

madara has regeneration.

naruto literally has no chance of winning. even with IT restricted :lol

 

[rinnegan human puppet]

I'm fine with Juubidara being unable to use Susano'o.

Even Hagoromo admits that Madara was trying to get close to Rikudou's and Kaguya's power. Hagoromo's power lacked the Sharingan abilities that made Kaguya so fearsome from Hagoromo's perspective and it makes sense for Juubidara not to have attained Kaguya's power until he awakened the Rinnesharingan. If Juubidara truly had access to the Sharingan's abilities, it would stand to reason that Madara possessed an ability that Rikudou would consider to be fearsome and would thus, have a power superior to Rikudou's, but that wasn't something that Rikudou implied at all.

Honestly, I agree with Kratos. I personally think the whole idea behind Juubidara possessing a Susano'o is pure fanfic.

madara with no eyes shown using susanoo, madara with 1 rinnegan shown using susano. yet full power madara with both his eyes, rinne sharingan and the bijuus magically cant use susano? lollolol

 

[Ambivalence]

Lol, is Madara not having Susano'o as a JJ actually taken seriously? The dude used it with fake eyes, used it with no eyes, used it with one Rinnegan. Having the Juubi in him changes nothing except make it stronger.

EDIT: @bowflex Alright, don't feel like arguing for N/S vs Madara anyway. Starting to hate this matchup.

 

[Oblivionx]

Madara should win... He has everything naruto has plus rinnegan.

 

[Mad Titan Thanos]

i think naruto wins this

he can have his kurama avatar use kokuos strength jutsu to make his avatar physically better, if he can over power kaguya, who shat on sasukes PS, then his avatar doing the same thing while using frog kata spanks madara's PS and even shinsuusenju, as madara is not more powerful than kaguya.

he makes a super sized rasenshuriken with all the bijuu elements and sticks his sword of nunoboko in it while his avatar with kokuos enhanced strength tosses it towards madara.

and in CQC his avatar with the kokuo buff can brawl with madara susanoo easily. also making chakra arms and clones with kokuo buff. maybe saiken to melt his susanoo if he blockes his hits or rasensuriken as melee weapons

Kokuo increase strength of user not strength of avatar.

 

[Mad Titan Thanos]

As we've seen, Madara didn't use susanoo even in the moments he absolutely needed it. Not sure what to say

He didnt need them because he has juubi and all damage would be completely healed.

This is manga not real world things happens in order to entertain readers.

Now Might Gai ,Naruto and Sauke gained new power (8 gates and Rikudo buff) and Kishi had to show as part of their power.


What point Gai opening 8 gate would make if Madara simply used limbo and beat him.

Night Gai ,evening elephant and lava rasenshuriken hit Madara directly and Madara tanked those attack with his Rikudo senjutsu durability and juubi healing.

Now ask yourself what damage would those attack make to Madara if he used Juubi PS ? None Susanoo would tank that and Madara would not be scratched.

That would destroy all hype 8 gates has and show lava rasenshuriken like some fodder attack.


If Madara used Juubi Susanoo Naruto and sasuke would be doomed.

 

[Mad Titan Thanos]

Madara should win.

Lets be honest apart from plot restrictions logically JJ Madara is combination of Naruto and Sasuke power on steroides.

Naruto has 50 Kurama and part of rest bijuus while Madara has 50 Kurama and full 8 bijuus which gaves Juubi.

Naruto has Rikudo senjutsu Madara has it too.

Adding Rinnegan is way too much not to mention Mokuton and EMS. With way superior regeneration and more chakra it isnt even fair to be honest.


Same story is with Sasuke but in this case Sasuke have EMS and Rinnegan just like Madara while he doesn´t have Rikudo senjutsu and Juubi.Also his chakra is even lower than Naruto and he doesnt have regeneration.

 

[Eng nawashi]

Without AA ,Naruto gets beaten badly . with AA,he still loses IMO .

 

[EZQ]

Madara definitely definitely wins