Is abortion murder?

Melanin

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Science says that a fetus is a person from the moment of conception.

The "genetic definition" of personhood, as developed by the evangelical Francis Schaeffer and former U.S. Surgeon General C. Everett Koop, holds that science proves personhood at the moment of conception. Their argument follows that since the whole genet ic code is established when the ovum and sperm is united, and each code is unique, a unique person is therefore created at the moment of conception.

This logic is flawed, however, because although there is a continuum from conception to death, there is a difference between an actual person and a potential or possible person. A fertilized ovum, or zygote, is a cluster of cells; taking this genetic code argument to its extreme, each of those cells is encoded with a specific DNA. If each of these cells is then to be considered a possible human being, then any time any cell is removed, through surgery for instance, a potential life is destroyed.


Doctors have confirmed that a fetus can feel pain.

Although this theory has received much attention through the showing of Dr. Bernard Nathanson's video The Silent Scream, experts in the medical field have repeatedly and vehemently established that this is impossible. The perception of pain is a complex biological and psychological phenomena that involves certain states of "consciousness" that would be impossible to achieve at the time of conception.

The brain itself is composed of approximately 100 billion brain cells called neurons. These brain neurons do not even exist prior to four weeks in utero, and the peak period for this brain neuron development is between two to five months in utero. There are also about 100 trillion connections between these neurons, called synaptic connections, by which neurons pass information amongst themselves. A minimum number of neurons must be developed in the cerebral cortex, and the interconnectivity of these neurons is absolutely essential, before states such as sensation, perception, and thought are really meaningful. While these synapses start to form at about the third month, the minimum number do not usually develop until about 31 weeks, and most are not formed until after birth.

The Bible says a fetus is a person from the moment of conception.

Two passages are most often quoted to explain the theory of life from conception. The first is Psalm 139:13-15: "For thou didst form my inward parts, thou didst knit me together in my mother's womb... My frame was not hidden from thee when I was being made in secret, intricately wrought in the depths of the earth." If this verse is to be taken literally, then the Psalmist came from the ground, not his mother's womb.

The second is Jeremiah 1:5, "Before I formed you in the belly I knew you; and before you came forth out of the womb, I sanctified you, and I ordained you a prophet unto the nations." This verse simply refers to the concept of God's foreknowledge, and his divine plan for certain individuals, in this case, the prophet Jeremiah. However, Genesis 2:7 states that "The Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." According to this verse, a fetus is not a person — a living soul — until after birth, when it take s its first breath.

Additionally, conservative Christians speak about becoming a "new spiritual person" by being "born again," quoting John 3:7, "You must be born again." So, if spiritual life is described as a new "birth," then it follows that physical life, or personhood, comes from "birth," not conception. Otherwise the Bible would say, "You must be conceived again."

Finally, the Bible never explicitly mentions abortion.

Do you think it's murder?
 

Punk Hazard

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Does it fulfill the qualifications of life?
1. Does it respond to the environment? Yeah.
2. Does it grow and develop? Yup.
3. Does it reproduce? I'm iffy on that one, I think cell division counts
4. It maintains homeostasis? Pretty sure it does.
5. It consists of cells? Yeah. After five days, it's 100 cells.

One of my textbooks defines the zygote at 5 days as an organism called a blastocyst.

Also, let's leave the Bible and Christianity out of this. You can define universal concepts and laws that apply to everyone with religions.
 

Dreamland

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As long as the woman was raped or of the child potentially will be born having some sort of disability(to the extreme), then abortion should be valid. If you don't want to have kids, don't have *** or use contraception.
 

AnimusOra

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Let me put it in a better perspective for you. What would you say if your parents aborted you? Would that be considered murder? You were give the opportunity to live why should you be the one to take anthers opportunity away if you were given it?
 

Dantee

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Sorta I guess but I'm pro abortion. I'd hate to have a kid when I'm not ready and make it go through a shiitty life plus making mine more of a hassle.
 

Yubel

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Yeah, it's like if I killed Hitler and rationalize why it's ok. It's still murder and doesn't make it right.
 

The Necromancer

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Let me put it in a better perspective for you. What would you say if your parents aborted you? Would that be considered murder? You were give the opportunity to live why should you be the one to take anthers opportunity away if you were given it?

I would say nothing because my consciousness would never exist.
 

Decipher

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It's whatever you believe it is. It's such a controversial topic that's everyone is going you have an opinion of. Both ends of the spectrum have repercussions. It's not easy having a child and raising at the same time. The whole "well you should have thought of that before having a ***" argument is stupid and hypocritical. It's the person who is having an abortion who's opinion really matters.
 

Punk Hazard

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Let's say abortion isn't murder. The question of if abortion is right or wrong wouldn't be over. What if abortion is wrong simply because it's abortion? Okay, we've established it's not ending a life. What it is, however, is stopping the development of a life that is already in progress. Is that right or wrong? I believe it's wrong.

Then there's the question of if it's right to legally force the mother to carry a baby she doesn't want and would prefer to abort. If that too, is wrong, then it's no longer a question of what's right and what's wrong. Now, we have two things which are wrong, and the question becomes which is the lesser evil. I'd say legal pregnancy because the worst of that lasts 9 months on the affected, while abortion lasts forever on the effected.
 

Dreamland

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Sorta I guess but I'm pro abortion. I'd hate to have a kid when I'm not ready and make it go through a shiitty life plus making mine more of a hassle.

Yeah, it's best to have a kid when you're fully matured and all. OT: I've got an exam this Thursday on a couple of theories, using that issue.
 

Wparker6804

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As long as the woman was raped or of the child potentially will be born having some sort of disability(to the extreme), then abortion should be valid. If you don't want to have kids, don't have *** or use contraception.
Bingo. That's why I'm "old fashioned" & willing to wait.

But a family fried had a son she knew would be disabled but she carried through. They said he'd die young but she looked after him. He had seizures every 30 seconds to 6 hours, breathed and ate primarily through a tube and never recognized her as her son but she carried through. I saw him for the first time when he was 5 & I was 12. He died 10 years old, 8 days before Christmas. She was sad but she knew she did the right thing carrying through. In someone else's case I can try to understand their reasoning if he/she would be injured but I still see it as wrong. Rape children can be hard--I've known one--but I wouldn't end a child's life because of actions that weren't theirs. Hell I'd adopt if the mother couldn't bear raising the child but it's still a life of beauty regardless of how it starts. But once again, I can try to understand.

And although I am a Christian I agree we should leave religion out of it to prevent a flame war--I doubt it will stay a civilised discussion for long.
 

Bronze

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Taking a life away is a murder and no one has the right to do that unless under one circumstance, which are: if the mother's life is likely to be in danger.
 

CloyEscapade

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Science does not say you are a person at the moment of conception. You a re a fertilized egg with no consciousness. Please source your 'science' reference

Try to source Koop and schaeffers actual research and I assure you no where will a fertilized cell be equated to a fetus
 
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Conspirator.

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I fail to see how abortion and murder are synonymous with one another. The fetus isn't even conscious. Anyway, I'm pro-choice on the Abortion debate.


Almost 90% of UK abortions are performed within the first 12 weeks of pregnancy. During this time there is no scientific doubt that the developing fetus is incapable of any form of conscious awareness. The fetal brain does not begin to develop until 3-4 weeks into the pregnancy, at which point it is little more than a hollow tube filled with dividing neurons. Between weeks 4 and 8 this neural tissue grows forming the major divisions of the adult brain (forebrain, midbrain, hindbrain and spinal cord). By 8 weeks recognisable facial features have developed and the cerebral cortex separates into two distinct hemispheres. By the end of the first trimester (12 weeks) nerve cells are beginning to form rudimentary connections between different areas of the brain. However, these connections are sparse and incapable of performing the same functions as an adult brain. So by 12 weeks, although the fetus is certainly starting to look like a little human, the neural circuits responsible for conscious awareness are yet to develop.
 
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