[Discussion] Does God have a plan?

[Multiply]

There is a cult that is fanatically dedicated to abducting women to rape and breed for the purpose of increasing their ranks in a war of conquest.

You are God.

What is the moral means of dealing with this cult and putting an end to their conquest?

Snap my fingers and make them not a cult that is fanatically dedicated to abducting women to rape and breed for the purpose of increasing their ranks in a war of conquest. These people are turned into law abiding citizens. That was easy. Now I'll just summon up some white castle burgers and watch as the world lives in harmony.

 

[Your Creepy Stalker]

How do you have two contradicting statements in the same post and not notice that they are contrary?


So I'll ask again, the death penalty just grants 1-Up Lives?

Murder and Execution are different.

I don't support the Death Penalty.

Stop using that picture.

Stop using Strawmen.

 

[ComplexCity]

Murder and Execution are different.

I don't support the Death Penalty.

Stop using that picture.

Stop using Strawmen.

Ok so I take that back


Back to my original point

If the law maker made the law for children not to drink under the age of 18, why should they not follow the law



If God (the law maker) made a law for man not to kill, why should God be able to murder?


Literally the same thing

 

[Aim64C]

Snap my fingers and make them not a cult that is fanatically dedicated to abducting women to rape and breed for the purpose of increasing their ranks in a war of conquest. These people are turned into law abiding citizens. That was easy. Now I'll just summon up some white castle burgers and watch as the world lives in harmony.

So, you deprive people of their free will and turn them into marionettes devoid of purpose in life.

The Borg were a villain in Stat Trek... and that was through the lens of progressive yuppies envisioning galactic unity.

 

[Your Creepy Stalker]

Ok so I take that back


Back to my original point

If the law maker made the law for children not to drink under the age of 18, why should they not follow the law



If God (the law maker) made a law for man not to kill, why should God be able to murder?


Literally the same thing

The lawmaker does not drink when he/she is under 18. In the first example, the lawmaker does obey the law.

In the second example, god makes the law not to kill, but still kills. The lawmaker does not obey the law, even though he should.

 

[OG sama]

God Kills. One of the 10 commandments says no Killing. So yes, you cannot deny that he breaks that law.

Its actually thou shall not murder, the KJV version is what you are referring to. The Bible in Basic English translates the phrase, "Do not put anyone to death without cause." Which is murder. God did not kill without cause and even if there's a cause he didn't do it because someone hurt his feelings. He did it because someone was wicked and sinned against him.

The Bible also prescribes that people have a right to defend themselves against attack and use deadly force. Why would he say this if he meant all forms of killing?

 

[HiddenSound]

So, let's say someone chooses not to eat, and to simply starve him/her self to death.

Is it God's fault for not intervening?

Likewise - if a group of people commit to a rejection of God and come into conflict with God's will - is it only natural that they be destroyed?

I mean - how crazy that God would make it so that matter can't exist in the same place at the same time. What kind of heinous being creates a world where people can be hit by cars?



There is a cult that is fanatically dedicated to abducting women to rape and breed for the purpose of increasing their ranks in a war of conquest.

You are God.

What is the moral means of dealing with this cult and putting an end to their conquest?



Well, since you're clearly the expert on God's abilities and wisdom, walk us through how a proper moral deity would have resolved such a case.

Murder isn't always the solution, especially when you're God and have all the powers of the universe.

But you fantasize about being the architect of a religious genocide so maybe brutish thug solutions are just a natural thing with you.

 

[Your Creepy Stalker]

Its actually thou shall not murder, the KJV version is what you are referring to. The Bible in Basic English translates the phrase, "Do not put anyone to death without cause." Which is murder. God did not kill without cause and even if there's a cause he didn't do it because someone hurt his feelings. He did it because someone was wicked and sinned against him.

The Bible also prescribes that people have a right to defend themselves against attack and use deadly force. Why would he say this if he meant all forms of killing?

Not believing in someone would not be considered an acceptable reason to kill them by todays standards.

 

[Multiply]

So, you deprive people of their free will and turn them into marionettes devoid of purpose in life.

The Borg were a villain in Stat Trek... and that was through the lens of progressive yuppies envisioning galactic unity.

It was already established that for God to have a plan for humanity, they are already deprived of that free will as they are simply flying down a track of inevitability.

Also how is it depriving people of free will? They chose to go against what I taught them in my holy books and sermons(Yeah, I actually make contact with my slav- followers), thus they face consequences. The same way God did it in Sodom and Gomorrah. However, his punishments are way harsher than mine.

His ideology is follow my rule or rot in hell.
My ideology is follow my rule or be put on the right path.

 

[Punk Hazard]

So, you deprive people of their free will and turn them into marionettes devoid of purpose in life.

The Borg were a villain in Stat Trek... and that was through the lens of progressive yuppies envisioning galactic unity.

So when a pedophile rapes and murders a baby, God doesn't stop it because he values the free will of that raping, murdering pedophile over the baby's safety?

Are you comparing real life God to villains in a fictional universe about space travel.

 

[Aim64C]

The lawmaker does not drink when he/she is under 18. In the first example, the lawmaker does obey the law.

In the second example, god makes the law not to kill, but still kills. The lawmaker does not obey the law, even though he should.

I grow weary of this argument getting in the way of my posts, so I'm going to put an end to it, now.

God created the universe in which there is the freedom of choice and in which the conscious choice of another to kill would have been foreseen. Thus, God accepts responsibility for all conscious choices to kill those who would obey the law.

God is not just the law maker - God is also the enforcer of those laws. Those who enforce the laws must be willing to contest those who would break the law on their terms. If someone has made the conscious decision to kill you while possessing the capability and the opportunity to do so - then the only thing that is going to stop that expression of free will is for another person to be willing to contest that person up to the point of claiming his or her life. That is simply the consequence of free will. Someone who has chosen to kill you can very easily choose to commit to killing those who would oppose him.

Thus, the provision is made for law enforcement officers to do what is necessary to enforce the law - including temporarily exceeding its constraints upon individual behavior. Officers can discharge their weapons in city limits in areas where that is prohibited (as can, in many places, people using them in self-defense). Officers are not held legally liable if, in the responsible application of the force necessary to stop a threat or violation of the law, cause injury or death to a person.

The notion that God is not moral because God has exceeded the constraints placed upon man (or advised man when those constraints can be exceeded) is simply nonsense.

If God worked in the way that the argument stipulates - the ability to resolve all conflicts peacefully and without loss of life - then the laws would not have much of a purpose in the first place.

 

[OG sama]

Not believing in someone would not be considered an acceptable reason to kill them by todays standards.

I know that, but what I'm saying is that God does not kill without a good cause. He didn't kill someone because they didn't believe in him, if they didn't believe they just lived their life, died and just went to hell, its your choice where you want to go.

 

[Punk Hazard]

It was already established that for God to have a plan for humanity, they are already deprived of that free will as they are simply flying down a track of inevitability.

Also how is it depriving people of free will? They chose to go against what I taught them in my holy books and sermons(Yeah, I actually make contact with my slav- followers), thus they face consequences. The same way God did it in Sodom and Gomorrah. However, his punishments are way harsher than mine.

His ideology is follow my rule or rot in hell.
My ideology is follow my rule or be put on the right path.

I think an even better thing would be to create two realms: One that is essentially the universe and earth as we have it now and no afterlife, and the other where you go to Heaven as an afterlife if you follow God or cease to exist.

To be placed in the latter universe, you have to follow God throughout your life. If you don't want to follow God, you are placed in the former realm and you are left unbothered by God. That way, it is truly free will and we'll see who follows God out of true love and appreciation, and who follows God just to avoid punishment.

Wait is homosexuality a sin but incest is not?

Which one did God permit twice?

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[Multiply]

I think an even better thing would be to create two realms: One that is essentially the universe and earth as we have it now and no afterlife, and the other where you go to Heaven as an afterlife if you follow God or cease to exist.

To be placed in the latter universe, you have to follow God throughout your life. If you don't want to follow God, you are placed in the former realm and you are left unbothered by God. That way, it is truly free will and we'll see who follows God out of true love and appreciation, and who follows God just to avoid punishment.

You're right this would probably be a better solution. However, I can do what I want right? I am all powerful and all knowing. There's an endless amount of things I could do that would be better than what the 'current God' is doing.

Which one did God permit twice?

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No idea. I haven't studied the bible that hard truth be told. That's why I asked

 

[OG sama]

So when a pedophile rapes and murders a baby, God doesn't stop it because he values the free will of that raping, murdering pedophile over the baby's safety?

Are you comparing real life God to villains in a fictional universe about space travel.

What? Go back and read Genesis please, we have to suffer because Adam and Eve disobeyed God and ate from that tree. We die because of this, people get sick, can get bruised, can get cut, people get raped. He doesn't want us to suffer like this but he is a Just God, he isn't going to break a promise he made to himself. When you break even simple instructions things can have serious consequences, and that's how God seen it when they ate from that tree when he told them not to. Of course they were tricked, but its still upsetting.

 

[Punk Hazard]

You're right this would probably be a better solution. However, I can do what I want right? I am all powerful and all knowing. There's an endless amount of things I could do that would be better than what the 'current God' is doing.



No idea. I haven't studied the bible that hard truth be told. That's why I asked

The answer is incest.

What? Go back and read Genesis please, we have to suffer because Adam and Eve disobeyed God and ate from that tree. We die because of this, people get sick, can get bruised, can get cut, people get raped. He doesn't want us to suffer like this but he is a Just God, he isn't going to break a promise he made to himself. When you break even simple instructions things can have serious consequences, and that's how God seen it when they ate from that tree when he told them not to. Of course they were tricked, but its still upsetting.

I have to suffer because Eve ate an apple when God said not to? Seems fair.

Edit: Wait, I just caught this. Did anyone else catch this?

he isn't going to break a promise he made to himself.

he isn't going to break a promise he made to himself.

he isn't going to break a promise he made to himself.

he isn't going to break a promise he made to himself.

Next time you wonder why children are starving and dying in third world countries and God is doing nothing about it, just remember these wise, reasonable words.

Shit reminds me of this

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[OG sama]

Wait is homosexuality a sin but incest is not?

They're both sins. God allowed incest to happen back then so the world would flourish, you have to remember Adam and Eve were the first Humans. Their children would have had to do incest, but since the world is full of people now, there is no need for sister and brother or cousin to be sleeping with each other.

 

[Your Creepy Stalker]

I grow weary of this argument getting in the way of my posts, so I'm going to put an end to it, now.

God created the universe in which there is the freedom of choice and in which the conscious choice of another to kill would have been foreseen. Thus, God accepts responsibility for all conscious choices to kill those who would obey the law.

God is not just the law maker - God is also the enforcer of those laws. Those who enforce the laws must be willing to contest those who would break the law on their terms. If someone has made the conscious decision to kill you while possessing the capability and the opportunity to do so - then the only thing that is going to stop that expression of free will is for another person to be willing to contest that person up to the point of claiming his or her life. That is simply the consequence of free will. Someone who has chosen to kill you can very easily choose to commit to killing those who would oppose him.

Thus, the provision is made for law enforcement officers to do what is necessary to enforce the law - including temporarily exceeding its constraints upon individual behavior. Officers can discharge their weapons in city limits in areas where that is prohibited (as can, in many places, people using them in self-defense). Officers are not held legally liable if, in the responsible application of the force necessary to stop a threat or violation of the law, cause injury or death to a person.

The notion that God is not moral because God has exceeded the constraints placed upon man (or advised man when those constraints can be exceeded) is simply nonsense.

If God worked in the way that the argument stipulates - the ability to resolve all conflicts peacefully and without loss of life - then the laws would not have much of a purpose in the first place.

Whats nonsensical about an omnipotent being having no way of preventing sin without killing innocent people? A police officer can use force in certain situations, but that doesn't mean he can get off scott-free if he harms or kills an innocent person nearby. There are plenty of cases in which God has caused harm or death to innocents.

Like the time he had an innocent man tortured horribly to death because of other people's wrongdoing.

 

[Punk Hazard]

They're both sins. God allowed incest to happen back then so the world would flourish, you have to remember Adam and Eve were the first Humans. Their children would have had to do incest, but since the world is full of people now, there is no need for sister and brother or cousin to be sleeping with each other.

Or, you know, make more people.

 

[Your Creepy Stalker]

What? Go back and read Genesis please, we have to suffer because Adam and Eve disobeyed God and ate from that tree. We die because of this, people get sick, can get bruised, can get cut, people get raped. He doesn't want us to suffer like this but he is a Just God, he isn't going to break a promise he made to himself. When you break even simple instructions things can have serious consequences, and that's how God seen it when they ate from that tree when he told them not to. Of course they were tricked, but its still upsetting.

Yeah, but crimes aren't genetic. Great times a billion grandma and grandpa have allready been punished. It's nonsensical for a supposedly benevolent god not to see that.