Who would've won if Naruto and Sasuke fought at this level?

shelke

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Tbh Genjutsu is the only way Sasuke would gain the upper hand. With Naruto it is Frog Fu. Neither have a counter for the other. Everything else can be avoided/blocked.

Ps. Naruto would need Ma and Pa genjutsu to counter Genjutsu. Not to mention his many Tiad summons.

I doubt it. Speed is an excellent factor. Sasuke clearly is much faster. There is no contest there. Amaterasu is another one.

He cannot summon so many large boss summons - no one has. That was Ma that did it, not him. He doesn't know the ritual to summon them. Therefore, he isn't summoning them.
 

Naruto X Hunter

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I doubt it. Speed is an excellent factor. Sasuke clearly is much faster. There is no contest there. Amaterasu is another one.

He cannot summon so many large boss summons - no one has. That was Ma that did it, not him. He doesn't know the ritual to summon them. Therefore, he isn't summoning them.

Plus no one usually factors in Sasuke's summonings, Snakes, & Hawks. Not that he even needs them to win.
 

shelke

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Plus no one usually factors in Sasuke's summonings, Snakes, & Hawks. Not that he even needs them to win.

Precisely. Snakes are canonically much superior. We saw how Manda was battling Bunta, Katsuya and Jiraiya and still coming out on top. Heck, its unhinged jaw was Bunta's size. I am not even joking here. He was abou to swallow it whole when Tsunade saved the day.

In a one on one summon battle, Bunta or Gama is trashed.
 

Twa15

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Naruto.
Reason being is Naruto with Sage mode he can make clones to store up chakra so the unexpected counter would be fixed with this issue.
and if it wasn't an unexpected counter still Naruto because with sage mode he can sense danger use Frog Fu. So Sasuke would only have his Susano and Amaterasu. On top of that he still has the nine tails and Kurama wont let Naruto die for the fact that Kurama dies as well.
 

Jokule67

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I doubt it. Speed is an excellent factor. Sasuke clearly is much faster. There is no contest there. Amaterasu is another one.

He cannot summon so many large boss summons - no one has. That was Ma that did it, not him. He doesn't know the ritual to summon them. Therefore, he isn't summoning them.

The only time Sasuke bested Naruto in speed was in the beginning of Shippuden. Speed doesnt really matter against Naruto SM sensing ability. It is the same as Kabuto's who dodged susanoo arrow(proof in latest databook) also proven when he dodged 3rd Raikage. Frog Fu beats Sasukes taijutsu no contest. Rinnegan couldnt even counter it.

Also I am 100% sure he can summon Ma and Pa AND gamabunta in a single fight. Which is really more than he really needs anyway.

Sasukes best chance would be to catch him in Genjutsu. Naruto already knows about Amaterasu and Susanoo doesnt pose much of a threat to Naruto in Sage Mode. You seriously dont know how OP Narutos Sage Mode was. Until Sasuke got itachi eyes he hadnt even mastered his MS yet. He rushed it. Fighting Naruto would make him blind.
 
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Jokule67

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Since i was last here, i re-evaluated the battle, & came across more reasons of why Sasuke would win, & speed was a big point. I'll share it some other time though.

Good comment. I never noticed that he jumped off Bee's back, & Neji's speed.



Your comment is mostly wrong. Notice how the OP said at this level, meaning Kage Summit Arc Naruto Vs Sasuke. You mentioned stuff that happened after the Kage Summit, & you tremendously over-hyped Naruto.

He was fighting the Kyuubi within his subconscious, which is why he could create a bunch of clones, & have them enter Sage Mode. His real body was sitting still, continously gathering Nature Energy.

In a real battle, outside his body, Naruto already stated he can't use many clones while in Sage Mode. Don't ignore that.

Anyway, i re-evaluated the battle, & have new reasonings of why Sasuke would win. Many things in which you haven't thought about.

I'll post someother time when i feel like it. Probably in my own thread.

Kage Summit Arc Naruto is the same as War Arc in terms of basic Sage Mode sir. He spent the war Arc training with bee for KCM. Plus in kage summit he said he trained to lengthen the Sage Mode limit and shorten the time it takes to enter it. He honed an already mastered technique.
 

Styles

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Lol People think Danzo broke Sasuke's Susano'o by himself but forget he used a mythical summoning to increase his power just to make a crack in Susano'o' back. Besides if Naruto does use FRS Sasuke can just use katons and make his fire stronger. :|
 

Avery Uchiha

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Lol People think Danzo broke Sasuke's Susano'o by himself but forget he used a mythical summoning to increase his power just to make a crack in Susano'o' back. Besides if Naruto does use FRS Sasuke can just use katons and make his fire stronger. :|

The RS has greater chakra density than any Katon Jutsu, so I'm pretty sure it would just continue through the fire and hit Sasuke with 2 combined elements.

Now for my opinion, logically Naruto SHOULD win this fight. He's not limited to 3 clones as he doesn't have any on standby gathering energy and he has frog Kumite which uses NE as as extension of your body (thus even the Sharingan couldn't see it). He has enhanced reflexes, sensing and a greater chakra pool as well but it really comes down to how seriously he'll fight Sasuke. I don't think Naruto would be mentally ready to take down Sasuke at that point however I also think Sasuke would try and kill Naruto given the chance.

So pretty much: Naruto has better combat abilities at that point, but I don't think he wants to fight Sasuke seriously.
 

Umari Senju

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Your point is not even worth calling moot, when Genjutsu specalists such as Orochimaru and Chee were floored by 3T Genjutsu from Sasuke. A Sharingan Genjutsu CANNOT be dispelled. You need outside help for it. This is an argument set in stone via the manga and the databook. Naruto dispelling it is a damned fiction. It isn't happening. Period.

Itachi's Genjutsu is only superior at MS level, not below it, which is the comparison Danzo created. Try to, at the very least, understand the context.



Yeah, I don't think so:




Why do people ignore this scan?

:lmao: Oh Shelke...Look we know you worship Sasuke but not being able to admit his shortcomings does your boy a disservice. :

First: Orochimaru? A genjutsu Speicalist? XD dude he was never a genjutsu specialist. Like Jiraiya, Naruto and so many others it is his weakness.

Second: Tsukuyomi is the one that cannot be broken unless you are of the same bloodline...which means, it CAN be broken so you stating Sharingan genjutsu cannot be broken is not only moot but false.

I will just leave it at that as I don't feel like discrediting or debunking anything else you typed as I don't have all day. :eek:uttahere:





People seem a bit confused about Naruto's SM limitations.

First of all, Naruto's 2 Rasenshuriken limit was due to maintaining his clones to refresh SM, which divides his chakra. In other words, if he was fighting "all out" rather than trying for a prolonged battle, Naruto has the option to use up to 6 Rasenshuriken.

Second, the same applies to the number of clones that SM Naruto can produce. Naruto was limited to creating a small number of clones in order to avoid disrupting the chakra of his other clones. If Naruto is going all out, he can create as many SM clones as he wants, he just won't have any gathering Natural Energy for him at the time.

Third, SM Naruto IS fast. There's no reason why he couldn't perform similar speed feats to SM Kabuto, who was easily able to dodge Susano'o arrows and Amaterasu with his sage reflexes. Naruto's speed feats include blitzing a Pain body from a fair distance away, and also handily wiping the floor with God Realm in Taijutsu.

All of that said, I think that MS Sasuke definitely has the upper hand in power in this fight. Naruto's only shot IS to fight a prolonged battle, which means he has to play very carefully with his Sage Mode. I believe that Naruto can probably enter Sage Mode by having a clone hide and gather Natural Energy, and would probably have to stall using Kyuubi Chakra to create a large number of clones. Sasuke's Susano'o is hard for Naruto to deal with.

However, Sasuke has to end the battle quickly, and can't play into Naruto's stall strategy. His Susano'o isn't very mobile with just MS, and he can't use many MS jutsu before exhausting his eyes. Naruto has far more power than Danzou; Danzou attacked primarily using fairly weak jutsu, and only pressured Sasuke due to his stamina and his ability to bait Sasuke into wasting chakra on MS techniques. Naruto is superior in terms of stamina and baiting techniques, so long as Naruto uses his clones wisely and takes advantage of both his Kyuubi Chakra and his Sage Chakra.

I think that Naruto unwittingly handicapped himself against Pain by relying solely on Sage Chakra from the get-go and only utilizing Kyuubi Chakra once his Sage Jutsu ran out. Obviously that fight was meant to showcase his Sage Mode, since it was being used for the first time. When Naruto first ran out of Sage Chakra and had to be refreshed, he was forced to stall in Base Mode until his reverse summoning was completed, but he could easily have pressed his advantage if he created a small Kyuubi Cloak. The only reason he didn't was because, at the time, he believed using Kyuubi chakra was a weakness, and didn't trust himself to control it. In the end, the Kyuubi chakra saved his ass, but that was only after he lost control.

SM Naruto's true power should be measured taking into account the amount of Kyuubi Chakra that he could use at the time while maintaining control; Naruto can easily handle 1-2 tails worth, and can still maintain control over up to 3.

There are arguments that support Sasuke being able to suppress Naruto's Kyuubi Chakra with Genjutsu, just like he did when they first met again in Part 2. It's hard to say exactly how that would play out if Naruto fought Sasuke again and was aware of that risk. Obviously Sasuke never tried to suppress another Jinchuuriki's Bijuu again, either while losing against Bee or while fighting Naruto in VotE2.

Now this is how you Sauce fans. Should be countering the SM Naruto arguments. This is very well laid out and unbiased. Thank you for this. I am impressed by your sound rebuttal here my friend. Plus rep to you sir :score:
 
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toscinho

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Seems you guys all forgot an important fact, the eye of shishu itachi gave naruto was till intact here, at a sight of sasuke's susano or amateratsu, sasuke would become a fool for life, loyal to the leaf and friends with naruto by a genjutsu powerful enough to reprogram life itself. My point of view sasuke never stood a chance against naruto at any stage from child birth, even rasengan versus chidori would kill sasuke in an instant.

Wind style versus chidori worse on sasuke, death supreme without any bijou to heal him up, he's as dead as dead can be.
In fact his final fight against naruto only had him lucky cause naruto had practically exhausted both his chakara and kiyubi's chakara even before they started, with all his war saving and multiclones attacks.

Even sasuke admitted he couldn't match him in that state of power. The final episodes still show sasuke acknowledging he's no match for naruto on any scale.
 

shelke

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The only time Sasuke bested Naruto in speed was in the beginning of Shippuden. Speed doesnt really matter against Naruto SM sensing ability. It is the same as Kabuto's who dodged susanoo arrow(proof in latest databook) also proven when he dodged 3rd Raikage. Frog Fu beats Sasukes taijutsu no contest. Rinnegan couldnt even counter it.

Also I am 100% sure he can summon Ma and Pa AND gamabunta in a single fight. Which is really more than he really needs anyway.

Sasuke's best chance would be to catch him in Genjutsu. Naruto already knows about Amaterasu and Susanoo doesn't pose much of a threat to Naruto in Sage Mode. You seriously dont know how OP Narutos Sage Mode was. Until Sasuke got itachi eyes he hadnt even mastered his MS yet. He rushed it. Fighting Naruto would make him blind.

Kabuto is insanely fast compared to Naruto of all the people. SM Naruto was blitzed by base Madara, his face digging a trench in the dirt. It took him quite a while to get up. Sensing doesn't mean he's avading every opponent. You cannot give Kabuto's feats to Naruto.

So? V1 Ae is clearly faster, given how Dodai recused Naruto and formed a rubber balloon at point blank range and the guy has literally no speed feats. Every single Ninja set up a Doton wall before he covered the large distance. Ae on the other hand was punching CS2 Jugo as if he was a rag doll, when the latter blitzed Bee from behind. Albeit he was distracted, but that is a feat regardless. I am not sure how people even assume that Ae and 4th Raikage are even comparable on this front. The latter is fast, but not that fast.

Where is your proof that he can? Gamabunta? Agreed. Ma and Pa? No.

How? He isn't evading Amaterasu. Sasuke doesn't even need Susanoo for a guy that has nothing decent in his arsenal to take down a speedster. No, seriously, you are exaggerating the shit out of SM Naruto. This isn't anything new on NB anyway.

The RS has greater chakra density than any Katon Jutsu, so I'm pretty sure it would just continue through the fire and hit Sasuke with 2 combined elements.

He's not limited to 3 clones as he doesn't have any on standby gathering energy and he has frog Kumite which uses NE as as extension of your body (thus even the Sharingan couldn't see it). He has enhanced reflexes, sensing and a greater chakra pool as well but it really comes down to how seriously he'll fight Sasuke. I don't think Naruto would be mentally ready to take down Sasuke at that point however I also think Sasuke would try and kill Naruto given the chance.

How? This is just an assumption.

It's Senjutsu, not NE. Naruto doesn't have a single attack that is pure NE-based. Not until Sage of the Six Paths mode. Its effect range is literally less than half an inch as shown by the Path encounter. Sharingan is also capable of seeing Senjutsu as shown through Kabuto incident. Sasuke is also trained in Senjutsu. That's all you need to sense it, and in Sharingan's case, see it.

The rest are also assumptions.


:lmao: Oh Shelke...Look we know you worship Sasuke but not being able to admit his shortcomings does your boy a disservice. :

First: Orochimaru? A genjutsu Speicalist? XD dude he was never a genjutsu specialist. Like Jiraiya, Naruto and so many others it is his weakness.

Second: Tsukuyomi is the one that cannot be broken unless you are of the same bloodline...which means, it CAN be broken so you stating Sharingan genjutsu cannot be broken is not only moot but false.

I will just leave it at that as I don't feel like discrediting or debunking anything else you typed as I don't have all day. :eek:uttahere:


Orochimaru has a 5 in Genjutsu. You don't need to cast it to be a specialist. Orochimaru would be capable of dispelling it or learning it. He hasn't done the latter.

Sorry, a 3T Sharingan genjutsu cannot be broken without outside help. It is proven by the 3T manga Genjutsu incidents (Bee, Chee, Orochimaru, Deidara, Kakashi, summons etc), Chiyo's statements and the databook. That is plenty of statements against your flimsy remarks that isn't backed by anything.

What a hilarious reply in the spoiler: Kabuto never dodged Amaterasu - it was aimed right in front of his foot to protect Itachi. SM Naruto is hardly fast. The rest of the reply ... by god!
 
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WalksInShadows

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Plus no one usually factors in Sasuke's summonings, Snakes, & Hawks. Not that he even needs them to win.
wtf are snakes and Garuda going to do to SM Naruto? Naruto already killed a snake summon in P1, and Garuda is only used for transportation and assisting Sasuke for aerial attacks. What exactly do you expect them to do against a Naruto that was already seen bodying Kurama and a Pain summon?
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stRunF

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I'd go with Naruto on this one. He's much more quicker, Sasuke wouldn't be able to land his amaterasu,and his genjutsu ain't something formidable, that probably couldn't kill Naruto.
 

Aznkidd

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I cant believe some sauce tard still wanking around and keeps deny mangafact.
You say without kyubii, SM Naruto can not win against MS Sasuke. But the fact is without Kyubii, MA&PA will able to fuse with Naruto and there is no Preta path to counter all the combo ninju from Naruto and his summon. His 3 boss frog will eat any snake or hawk that coming out. Susanoo is a joke and it is not immune to even the trio combo let alone the sage rasengan.
And with Kyubii there is not even possible way for Sasuke to defeat Naruto as there is none. Nothin that Sasuke can do except running away inside his snake belly.
 

Dantee

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I cant believe some sauce tard still wanking around and keeps deny mangafact.
You say without kyubii, SM Naruto can not win against MS Sasuke. But the fact is without Kyubii, MA&PA will able to fuse with Naruto and there is no Preta path to counter all the combo ninju from Naruto and his summon. His 3 boss frog will eat any snake or hawk that coming out. Susanoo is a joke and it is not immune to even the trio combo let alone the sage rasengan.
And with Kyubii there is not even possible way for Sasuke to defeat Naruto as there is none. Nothin that Sasuke can do except running away inside his snake belly.


Nothing in narutos arsenal is getting past susanoo besides a hypothetical frog song. Funny you guys think SM Naruto wins when his main weakness was actually keeping up SM. His frogs will eat every hawk and snake? lmao. Frogs and snakes are tied so summons is non factor infact the edge goes to Sasuke since he has two contracts at this point. NVM the fact SM Naruto can only use 2 frs which get knocked by a swing of Susanoo....ONce naruto runs of SM energy and needs to get replinished Sasuke can just amaterasu him or hit him with a susanoo arrow. Not to mention naruto isn't even that fast at this point to dodge Susanoo arrow. Frog Kata has a lesser range than Sasukes sword and chiodri nagashi which means close combat is futile...
 

Tyris

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Manga fax. Kishi drew naruto saying he couldnt hack it. But sauce on the other hand shrugged his growth off and kept to his present goal.

All i need from the manga nit fanboys.
 

WalksInShadows

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Nothing in narutos arsenal is getting past susanoo besides a hypothetical frog song.
really? Nothing in Naruto's arsenal? [ ][ ]

Funny you guys think SM Naruto wins when his main weakness was actually keeping up SM. His frogs will eat every hawk and snake? lmao. Frogs and snakes are tied so summons is non factor infact the edge goes to Sasuke since he has two contracts at this point.
the fact that Sasuke has snakes and Garuda means nothing. Naruto completely bodied a snake summon yrs before he ever got a SM and Garuda doesn't even fight, so Sasuke has absolutely no edge in the summon department just because he has more than 1 species at his disposal.

NVM the fact SM Naruto can only use 2 frs which get knocked by a swing of Susanoo....ONce naruto runs of SM energy and needs to get replinished Sasuke can just amaterasu him or hit him with a susanoo arrow.
it's funny how you talk about Naruto being able to keep up SM circa that arc and yet all this time you talk about Sasuke using Amaterasu and his avatar like it had no consequences on his own stamina and eyesight lol

Not to mention naruto isn't even that fast at this point to dodge Susanoo arrow.
Kabuto avoided it with a similar SM. If that isn't enough, i'd say this qualifies as SM Naruto being fast enough to dodge any atk from Sasuke's avatar: [ ][ ]. Another chief feature you failed to realize about Naruto's SM is that it acts like a kind of Sharingan in regards to boosting the user's ability to anticipate incoming atks.

There's a reason ppl are giving Naruto the win if you bothered to research or know anything about Naruto's SM other than how long it initially lasted.
 
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Tyris

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fappers disgust me... especially naruto wanks
 

To Whatever

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Ma & Pa fused Naruto negs Sasuke

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