what do you think of naruto's evolution?

Nagi

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Neji was right from the freaking start. You're destined for greatness! Kishi F-ed up by bringing up the reincarnation theme. Shit just threw all of Naruto's hard work out of the window! Because he was destined for those powers!
 

Desanto

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Talk about nit-picking to try to salvage your argument. You've already proven my point, and have no concept of sarcasm apparently.

Message 1. A nobody who works hard can beat out someone born into greatness: Except that Naruto was born of a kage, born into one of the most powerful clans, and actively had his abilities muted by Kurama, meaning he was never a nobody.

Message 2. A person controls their own destiny. Except that Naruto was destined to win on more than one occasion, and by extension Madara and Kaguya were destined to lose.

I've seen the way you carry yourself on the base, you always think you're proven right.. stop spoiling yourself, bud.

There is 1 message, but have you ever entertained the thought that maybe that 1 message is more complex than you think, but is still just that message? If you can't clearly see that message still, then maybe you haven't taken the time to notice.

I can direct you to a lovely thread I saw on NF a while ago since I don't really have the drive to debate with you atm.
 

The Necromancer

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I've seen the way you carry yourself on the base, you always think you're proven right.. stop spoiling yourself, bud.

There is 1 message, but have you ever entertained the thought that maybe that 1 message is more complex than you think, but is still just that message? If you can't clearly see that message still, then maybe you haven't taken the time to notice.

I can direct you to a lovely thread I saw on NF a while ago since I don't really have the drive to debate with you atm.

Lol. Alright bud. As I expected. Dismissed.
 

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Neji was right from the freaking start. You're destined for greatness! Kishi F-ed up by bringing up the reincarnation theme. Shit just threw all of Naruto's hard work out of the window! Because he was destined for those powers!

because naruto never worked hard,

anyone can work hard for 1 week if they will have SM power,

kage bunshin-one night
rasengan -2 week
SM-1 week
frs- less then 1 week
kuuybi - half night (wouldnt consider this as work thought)
rm - instant
bsm-instant
rsm- instant
 
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Nagi

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because naruto never worked hard,

anyone can work hard for 1 week if they will have SM power,

kage bunshin-one night
rasengan -2 week
SM-1 week
frs- less then 1 week
kuuybi - half night

Can anyone pull off that feat in the same amount of time if they wasn't the reincarnation of indra or ashura? NO!
 

The Necromancer

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because naruto never worked hard,

anyone can work hard for 1 week if they will have SM power,

kage bunshin-one night
rasengan -2 week
SM-1 week
frs- less then 1 week
kuuybi - half night (wouldnt consider this as work though)
rm - instant
bsm-instant
rsm- instant

Plus the fact that he was only able to put in that work because he was born into a clan with immensely powerful and vast chakra, which made him able to use Shadow Clone training.

Without his lineage, he'd still be learning Sage Mode now, 13 years later.
 

Obito the supreme jin

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because naruto never worked hard,

anyone can work hard for 1 week if they will have SM power,

kage bunshin-one night
rasengan -2 week
SM-1 week
frs- less then 1 week
kuuybi - half night (wouldnt consider this as work though)
rm - instant
bsm-instant
rsm- instant

Never worked hard where did you get that fanfic from? Stop making up useless info such as the number of weeks because Kishi's logic doesn't flow like that.First he worked 3 years straight after VOTE 1. and all of the others came from gradual practice. No one masters it in an instant because they are not on a God tier. The only one on your list which is instant is RSM because it was gifted from Hagoromo. Try harder.
 

The Necromancer

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Why would I debate w/ you if I can just direct you to the answer? Or how about reading Romy9's replies? You're choosing not to, because you'll end up having to bite your own tounge.

Please. You "don't really have the drive" yet you sit here and throw accusations at me still. Leave or debate. I don't care which, just don't sit here playing with your **** pretending to be busy. I've made my point very clear, but no one has "had the drive" to dispute it, so the ball is in your courts. Not mine.
 

Venomous Cobra

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Good qualities that you come up with and create=/= talents

Most of what you said was gained by naruto later in his life rather than being born with it.

later turns out he is genius
He was never.
later turns out he has enormous chakra pool
Yes, you're right there.
later turns out he has powerful connections and helpers
He is the one who build those relationships with people, he established them due his friendly personality and mutual understanding.
later turns out his father is genius hokage and his mother is jinjuriki of kuuybi
Irrelevant to the fact that he was an underdog. A father and a mother whom you never met or had the benefit of knowing really has nothing to do with who you are.
later turns out he has tnj/ ability talk out his enemy surrender with few childish/naive words
Again that due his ability of understanding people's feelings which he developed as a young kid due people treating him like a monster.
later turns out he can master sm in one week which sanins failed to master it in their whole life
Meh, was due the plot and progression of the story if you ask me but ok
later turns out he is from powerful clan
He was always known as uzumaki naruto, the hell are you talking about? besides and like his parents he never had any benefits of being one aside from chakra pool
later turns out he is destiny child/chosen one
That was BS I agree
later turns out he can talk out with bijus to give him power, and turn into narujesus
He developed the relationship with the bijuu
later turns out he is incarnation of demi god
You already said this point.


OT: Overall I agree, naruto being ashura was straight BS ..................even before meeting the sage, I hated how the old frog said some bullshit about how he was the savoir........
 

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Never worked hard where did you get that fanfic from? Stop making up useless info such as the number of weeks because Kishi's logic doesn't flow like that.First he worked 3 years straight after VOTE 1. and all of the others came from gradual practice. No one masters it in an instant because they are not on a God tier. The only one on your list which is instant is RSM because it was gifted from Hagoromo. Try harder.


dont really care 3 years or few weeks....the point is shinobis like jiraiya,orochimaru,etc worked 50 years and half mastered SM

naruto 3 years - demi god
 

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helpers like jiraiya coming out nowhere and teaching him,etc...or having powerful bloodline,etc.....

if you have successful/intelligent parents, connections with respected people and born with innate gifts that are polished with external help you'll succeed in life and reach great peaks.


**** common people,
 

Obito the supreme jin

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dont really care 3 years or few weeks....the point is shinobis like jiraiya,orochimaru,etc worked 50 years and half mastered SM

naruto 3 years - demi god

Kishi obviously doesn't have time to take 50 years of his life to show Naruto working hard for SM. :lmao: He had put the Sannin in the flashback to show they acquired it in this much time. Naruto worked hard for all of his powers and at one point he was a nobody, only once he found out who his identity was did his powers also spark. Once he figured out who his mother and father were, his anger toward Tobi increased allowing him to develop BSM and later RSM. You also can't compare irrelevant shinobi because Naruto is the MC here. He became a demi god through hard work after establishing those bonds according to Kishi's message and not some instant BS power ups as you explained earlier which was faulty.
 

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Visit the link I posted earlier but delete the space after "N" in naruto. It explains everything beautifully. At the end of the day it's all opinions though so if you happen not to agree, then i'll respect it and move on but ONLY after you at least skim through it.

not working , just summary what it says
 

Dantee

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Naruto's message was thrown out the window the second we learned he was the child of a Hokage and one of the most powerful clans in history.

Confirmation of that thrown out message came when we learned he was the descendant of and a literal spirit vessel for a demi god.

True story.
 

dms_kakashi

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it was shit how naruto developed from fodder level to god level in 3-4 years( considering he was diedara level at most at begenning of NS, He went to God level in less than year which not even madara or hashirama could do. part 1 contained hard works result, part 2 shitted and powerup after every day...)
 

V h o

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Seemed okay to me. I don't get why peeps think destiny alone made naruto get where he got as if hard work never happened ..
 

Berner

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when manga started it was said that naruto is dumb and talentless kid who hard working towards his goal to become hokage,

later turns out he is genius
later turns out he has enormous chakra pool
later turns out he has powerful connections and helpers
later turns out his father is genius hokage and his mother is jinjuriki of kuuybi
later turns out he has tnj/ ability talk out his enemy surrender with few childish/naive words
later turns out he can master sm in one week which sanins failed to master it in their whole life
later turns out he is from powerful clan
later turns out he is destiny child/chosen one
later turns out he can talk out with bijus to give him power, and turn into narujesus
later turns out he is incarnation of demi god

etc

what do you think of naruto's evolution?

1. he was never a "genuis"
2. due to his bloodline
3. lmao ok? most do
4. ok but he only gained large charka pool and yellow hair
5. kishi gave him that which kept him alive and devolped
6. lol due to plot
7.no there not
8. there was another
9. due to plot
10. there was another

there was like only 2-3 things that actually were true
 

Legendary Saiyan

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He's still a dumbass but becoming the son of the 4th isn't surprising if you pay attention at 2004 and 2006 especially. Being part of a clan nullifies Naruto's underdog path.
 

The Necromancer

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Visit the link I posted earlier but delete the space after "N" in naruto. It explains everything beautifully. At the end of the day it's all opinions though so if you happen not to agree, then i'll respect it and move on but ONLY after you at least skim through it.

So you believe that the theme of hard work outclassing genius is null because in the end even the hard workers were geniuses. So basically, a genius can never be surpassed except by a genius.

I would agree. That's a pretty shitty theme, but it's a true one.

The NF OP has proven that Lee is indeed a genius in a certain aspect, the same as Neji, Sasuke and later Naruto. To that end, we can see that these characters will never be surpassed by their peers, regardless of how hard or long their peers work, or their resolve. Hinata barely even surpassed Part I Neji by the end of the war, and she arguably had one of the strongest resolves and work ethics of the K11.

So my point stands, the theme of Hard work overpowering Genius was thrown out the window, all you did was prove that it was thrown out far earlier than I believed.

None of that post even touches on the aspect of Destiny, however, which was a central philosophy of the manga and of Naruto specifically, which actually ties in with the first theme we've been discussing.
 
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