[VS] Tsunade vs Ay

[Savage Predator]

The scan displaying Madara's katon holds no weight in proving she has superior reactions. Mei was the first to react (and using whatever shoddy logic was used earlier) which would support that Mei's reactions > all the other Kages which is laughable. This is what I was trying to display earlier.


Not quite sure where you are headed with this. Being a kage tier ninja doesn't mean you have top tiered stats in every category. Kage don't have some accepted medium to which all of their stats are magically raised.


Relevance level = 0


Here I am reading, learning, and reevaluating, and you come out of nowhere quoting me. Discontinue conversation with me please, I am here observing. I don't want serious debates until I grow as a debater.

We all should have stopped when he said that Tsunade's striking speed=FTG

 

[KingHashirama]

The scan displaying Madara's katon holds no weight in proving she has superior reactions. Mei was the first to react (and using whatever shoddy logic was used earlier) which would support that Mei's reactions > all the other Kage which is laughable. This is what I was trying to display earlier.


Not quite sure where you are headed with this. Being a kage tier ninja doesn't mean you have top tiered stats in every category. Kage don't have some accepted medium to which all of their stats are magically raised.


Relevance level = 0


Here I am reading, learning, and reevaluating, and you come out of nowhere quoting me. Discontinue conversation with me please, I am here observing. I don't want serious debates until I grow as a debater.

Hmm, i'm talking about her striking speed.. And her ability to do something about them. Mei was able to react, no denial about it. And those who will claim Ay can blitz Mei will be idiots also.



Being a kage tier ninja = you have reactions . Do you know what reactions are? Reactions define shinobi of high calibar. If a Kage can't react to another kage .. then how is he or she a kage tier ninja? If no one could react to Ay.. then he would be the god of Naruto-verse since he'd be the strongest Kage.. fun fact.. He wasn't.

Relevance level = 10/10

Madara's reactions > ay. Ay ain't ever blitzing Madara. Tsunade had the skills to take down Madara. And I quoted you because, what you said seemed like an insult to me and salt.

We all should have stopped when he said that Tsunade's striking speed=FTG

Nope, I said Tsunade' striking speed = ability to teleport. I stated nothing in Naruto-verse can match FTG's pop up speed.. even the jinchurikis can't.

 

[KingHashirama]

Did you miss Karin's explanation? Sasuke couldn't even see him given the fact that he put Amaterasu all aroud his Susanoo.

Because Madara would treat a clone like his own actual body, or that he wasn't taking the kages seriously at the moment.


I guess Ohnoki was on Raikage's back and flying for the lols. Or the fact that Mei wasn't anywhere in sight

Nope didn't miss it at all. Simply telling you he was able to react. He saw Ay disappear, put the amaterasu on himself..hence reacting. Now again, you are talking about a MS Sasuke, who needs to rely on MS. Ninja who don't need the sharingan... rely on their battle reactions and instincts. Ninja such as Onoki/Ay/Tsunade/Mei who are skilled and have trained for many many years are superior to a brat who just gained the MS couple days ago.


So can you show us where the clone was weak? Because from what we know its the clone who had been doing majority of the fighting. It was the clone who activated the Susanoo that Tsunade broke with Ay and mei and onoki's help. Him taking not taking them seriously =/= him losing his pride and letting himself get hit by a senju.

How do you not see Mei??

Shes right next to Gaara on the left side.

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Onoki was already on Ay's back.. lol

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[Lord Tywin]

Nope didn't miss it at all. Simply telling you he was able to react. He saw Ay disappear, put the amaterasu on himself..hence reacting. Now again, you are talking about a MS Sasuke, who needs to rely on MS. Ninja who don't need the sharingan... rely on their battle reactions and instincts. Ninja such as Onoki/Ay/Tsunade/Mei who are skilled and have trained for many many years are superior to a brat who just gained the MS couple days ago.

Your point would have been legit if Sasuke had used amaterasu only on his back. He couldn't see Raikage and had to use a barrier in for of amaterasu to get him from attacking him. Rest of your paragraph is just funny.

So can you show us where the clone was weak? Because from what we know its the clone who had been doing majority of the fighting. It was the clone who activated the Susanoo that Tsunade broke with Ay and mei and onoki's help. Him taking not taking them seriously =/= him losing his pride and letting himself get hit by a senju.

I'll give the clone point to you.

How do you not see Mei??

Shes right next to Gaara on the left side.

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Onoki was already on Ay's back.. lol

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Lol missed Mei.
My point still stands. The kages were already on the move and there is no reason to believe Madara couldn't have just pulled out his susanoo like here

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to block the attack. But if you're saying that Tsunade can blitz Madara so fast that he can't even pull susanoo then that is just laughable.
There is also the Madara statement Lol

 

[Sublime Green Beast]

Hmm, i'm talking about her striking speed.. And her ability to do something about them. Mei was able to react, no denial about it. And those who will claim Ay can blitz Mei will be idiots also.

Depending on the range, he can blitz her. Mei has kage tier reactions ( as do all of the kage) but Ay far exceeds the normal kage in terms of speed.

Being a kage tier ninja = you have reactions . Do you know what reactions are? Reactions define shinobi of high calibar. If a Kage can't react to another kage .. then how is he or she a kage tier ninja? If no one could react to Ay.. then he would be the god of Naruto-verse since he'd be the strongest Kage.. fun fact.. He wasn't.

Yes I understand this but a character like Ay is a different case. His jutsu and fighting style specifically revolves around enhancing his reflexes and attacking with blinding speed. What type of worthless screw up would he be if his top speed fighting style (which was world renown) couldn't at the very least give him the upper hand in a CQC scuffle? Guessing Hiruzen can also react to V2 Ay because he is a kage tiered ninja?

Take Minato for example, who is built around having godly speed and reactions. It wouldn't be unordinary for him to casually blitz kage tier ninja given his fighting style.

Madara's reactions > ay. Ay ain't ever blitzing Madara. Tsunade had the skills to take down Madara. And I quoted you because, what you said seemed like an insult to me and salt.

I was merely stating how much I was learning from KG and Salt. More like a compliment considering their arguments shifted some of my original beliefs.

 

[Great Master Minato]

No smart one, I didn't say that. I said its superior to Ay's speed.

Tsunade striking as fast as Minato can teleport = her being able to dodge it. =].


Ooops, meant it her being able to hit him. Since i already stated many times she can't dodge him.

Wow...just WOW! I'm speechless...actually I'm done arguing in this thread...

 

[KingHashirama]

Your point would have been legit if Sasuke had used amaterasu only on his back. He couldn't see Raikage and had to use a barrier in for of amaterasu to get him from attacking him. Rest of your paragraph is just funny.

But thats my entire moment. Because Sasuke knew he couldn't keep up with Ay's movement, he went on the defensive. << thats reacting. Like I said, in a previous post also. Ay needs to charge up to blitz.. the moment he charages Tsunade can simply go into a defensive form also.

My point still stands. The kages were already on the move and there is no reason to believe Madara couldn't have just pulled out his susanoo like here

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Yes there is, when you get overwhelmed by someone in taijutsu you can't pull out a susanoo.. lol. And also no Kages were standing. While Ay and Onoki were in the making sure he was sealed up.

to block the attack. But if you're saying that Tsunade can blitz Madara so fast that he can't even pull susanoo then that is just laughable.
There is also the Madara statement Lol

Notice in the scan you posted he is talking about their "traveling speed".. Tsunade is a taijutsu master. That people like Gai can only rival with the Gates. And please note that the distance in the scan you provided is much more farther away than the one where Tsunade punches him. And also, it could be that Madara didn't want to put a Susanoo and wanted to kill her by himself..

Wow...just WOW! I'm speechless...actually I'm done arguing in this thread...

You been done arguing tho.......

Depending on the range, he can blitz her. Mei has kage tier reactions ( as do all of the kage) but Ay far exceeds the normal kage in terms of speed.

But his speed doesn't far exceed their reactions, that they won't be able to react to him charging up and then trying to blitz them right in front of them.. lol.

Yes I understand this but a character like Ay is a different case. His jutsu and fighting style specifically revolves around enhancing his reflexes and attacking with blinding speed. What type of worthless screw up would he be if his top speed fighting style (which was world renown) couldn't at the very least give him the upper hand in a CQC scuffle? Guessing Hiruzen can also react to V2 Ay because he is a kage tiered ninja?

1 issue his blinding speed was inferior to Tsunade's skills in the entire Gokage fight. Himself was portrayed to be inferior in the entire Gokage fight compared to Tsunade. No i can't give him a upper hand in something Tsunade has shown better feats. Her striking speed is superior to Ay's.

Why would the God of Shinobi not be able to react to Ay.. when the 3rd Raikage was inferior to Hiruzen? (manga stuff not my claim).

Take Minato for example, who is built around having godly speed and reactions. It wouldn't be unordinary for him to casually blitz kage tier ninja given his fighting style.


I was merely stating how much I was learning from KG and Salt. More like a compliment considering their arguments shifted some of my original beliefs.

no Minato's character is built around godly speed. His reactions haven't been hyped (as far as i know), its his ability to dodge attacks due to his speed. and even then he was never considered above the third Hokage when he both were alive. why? Mangas have tiers, characters in the same "tier" can't "overwhelm" others by things like speed and so on, because others can't "react"... reacting is pretty much the base of fights.

lloll, well you said KH.

 

[Savage Predator]

But thats my entire moment. Because Sasuke knew he couldn't keep up with Ay's movement, he went on the defensive. << thats reacting. Like I said, in a previous post also. Ay needs to charge up to blitz.. the moment he charages Tsunade can simply go into a defensive form also.

What you're saying is like saying that when Ichigo attacked Aizen from behind and when Aizen's technique automatically blocked the blow it was Aizen that reacted and not the barrier that was already in place.

Yes there is, when you get overwhelmed by someone in taijutsu you can't pull out a susanoo.. lol. And also no Kages were standing. While Ay and Onoki were in the making sure he was sealed up.

The scan I posted is exactly like the same situation as the scan when Tsunade hit hit Madara's clone. Madara easily pulled out Susanoo instantly before Tsunade could hit him.

Notice in the scan you posted he is talking about their "traveling speed".. Tsunade is a taijutsu master. That people like Gai can only rival with the Gates. And please note that the distance in the scan you provided is much more farther away than the one where Tsunade punches him. And also, it could be that Madara didn't want to put a Susanoo and wanted to kill her by himself..

That last sentence is funny. Madara tried to kill her by whatever means necessary. And you say it as if Susanoo isn't Madara's technique.
Also note that in that Madara has only called Ay fast among the kages.

 

[RedRobin]

Why in the world would Tsunade dash forward at the same speed as before if it gave him enough time to put susano. Obviously second time around she goes faster plus the distance she dashed to from her first punch is much smaller.

Tsunade got a hit on Madara by herself. I say she is underrated all the time becauee this is how people view her feats like she didnt do that by herself when the gokage didnt move.

 

[Savage Predator]

Why in the world would Tsunade dash forward at the same speed as before if it gave him enough time to put susano. Obviously second time around she goes faster plus the distance she dashed to from her first punch is much smaller.

Tsunade got a hit on Madara by herself. I say she is underrated all the time becauee this is how people view her feats like she didnt do that by herself when the gokage didnt move.

Dude Gokage didn't move? Mei wasn't in her place, and Ohnoki/Ay were flying. There is nothing to think she did it on her own.
What you guys are saying is that Tsunade traveled faster than lightning(****ing Itachi reacted to it) to close the gap between Madara and herself and hit Madara.

 

[Haizaki]

HOOOOO ****KKKKKKK This guy really said it lmaoo. "Tsunade's striking speed is as fast as Minato can teleport".

Remind me never to reply this guy EVER.

 

[KingHashirama]

What you're saying is like saying that when Ichigo attacked Aizen from behind and when Aizen's technique automatically blocked the blow it was Aizen that reacted and not the barrier that was already in place.

Hmm no. What i'm saying is Sasuke knowing he couldn't keep up with Ay's movement put up the amaterasu. He put up amaterasu after Ay had already disappeared.

The scan I posted is exactly like the same situation as the scan when Tsunade hit hit Madara's clone. Madara easily pulled out Susanoo instantly before Tsunade could hit him.

So can you show any evidence of other Kages attacking him? cause i don't think you can. Feel free to use the anime also.

That last sentence is funny. Madara tried to kill her by whatever means necessary. And you say it as if Susanoo isn't Madara's technique.
Also note that in that Madara has only called Ay fast among the kages.

No, hes also called Tsunade fast , just not as Faster Ay.. and this was talking about traveling speed. Not striking speed.

HOOOOO ****KKKKKKK This guy really said it lmaoo. "Tsunade's striking speed is as fast as Minato can teleport".

Remind me never to reply this guy EVER.

Coming form the idiot who can't tell the difference between:

Lightning armor and normal shinobi skin. (considering you think the 3rd raikage tanks metal with normal skin, but show pictures of his lightning armor tanking)


Difference between fighting stances.


Difference between traveling speed and movement speed/taijutsu speed


A guy who can't tell the difference between those shouldn't try to act like a smartass.

 

[RedRobin]

Dude Gokage didn't move? Mei wasn't in her place, and Ohnoki/Ay were flying. There is nothing to think she did it on her own.
What you guys are saying is that Tsunade traveled faster than lightning(****ing Itachi reacted to it) to close the gap between Madara and herself and hit Madara.

They didnt... Where did they move. The only one who actually moved far from that branch was Tsunade. The only one who directly engaged with Madara and got a hit in.

Tsunade the freaking Hokage and one of the sanin, she by herself got a hit on Madara. Why is that so hard to believe. You know she is hyped to be unmatched in CQC right?

Any other Hokage would have gotten a hit on Madara by themselves. So lets not act like Tsunade is so below each of them.

 

[Hiraishin Stage 3]

Ok it wasnt Tsunade's job either but she had already moved and reacted before anyone else.

Before mei's suiton, before Onoki's rock sheild, before A, and before Gaara's sand.

Umm again why should raikage move, if there is nothing he can do?

The kages at this point, especially oonoki had made use of their last bits of chakra. Tsunade only acted because she still had byakugou to save her.

Spoiler

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[KingHashirama]

Umm again why should raikage move, if there is nothing he can do?

The kages at this point, especially oonoki had made use of their last bits of chakra. Tsunade only acted because she still had byakugou to save her.

Spoiler

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They didn't even bother dodging them tho.. lol.

 

[King Of Pop]

No, hes also called Tsunade fast , just not as Faster Ay.. and this was talking about traveling speed. Not striking speed.

dont twist manga, he never called her fast, never. he said shes slower than ay, nothing about her being fast. her speed has never been complimented, its fairly average.

Tsunade striking as fast as Minato can teleport = her being able to dodge it. =].

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[HiddenSound]

Why is this still happening

 

[KingHashirama]

dont twist manga, he never called her fast, never. he said shes slower than ay, nothing about her being fast. her speed has never been complimented, its fairly average.

"shes not fast as the Raikage". <<<<< implication on Tsunade being fast, simply not fast as Raikage. "Shes stronger than the raikage" <<<< implication on Raikage being strong simply not strong as Tsunade. They are similar fighters, he simply compared the 2 and stated which is better in which. The comparison was done when she ran to attack him.

Tsunade's speed is average? Lol alright kiddo.

 

[New Dawn]

They're husband and wife. Quit pitting them against each other.

 

[Icelerate]

Did King Hashirama say that Tsunade's reaction speed is on par with Minato and KCM Naruto?