[VS] Hashirama vs Team Overrated

[Narutimate Storm]

:wesobi:

1. Obito: "You live up to your yellow flash moniker"/"leave it to the yellow flash"
~ Minato use shunshin to save baby naruto. Obito witness this and praise minato for it, for his speed
~ Even despite minato be known as yellow flash for hiraishin. Obito bring up minTo nickname after seeing shunshin
~ this tell any reader with sense that minato speed incredible with or wothout shunshin.

2. Killer Bee: "Shunshin no Jutsu and right hand smash. But all i saw was Yellow Flash"
~ Bee comparing Narutos shunsin to minato. Not hiraishin

3. Yamato: "He's not quite on Fourths level yet"
~ After bee mention yellow flash (minato), yamato tell bee that although naruto fast, kcm naruto shunshin still below minato level
~ any idiot who know to read know yamato talking of shunshin. Because nothing surpass hiraishin.
~ Databook already tell us speed of hiroashin cannot to be compared to shunshin, so fool should try and say different
- both bee and yamato talk only of shunshin. Because shunshin what they saw.

*that already three people in a row who only address Minato as yellow flash because of shunshin no jutsu. It manga fact minato have the bestest Shunshin. Not even debtable.

4. Ei: "No shinobi faster then me. Now that fourth hokage has died"
~ This should be only statement need to end debate. Ei say minato faster an him, so why argue?
~ space time ninjutsu not make people fastest. Ei face against obito and witness his space time ninjutsu but ei never say obito fastest.
~ kishi never state obito fastest despite space time ninjutsu.
~ minato get nickname from hiraishin. However no no where it say minato become fastest because of hiriashin. And manga fact show that minato Shunshin also reason for yellow flash moniker as well.

5. Killer Bee: "He outran bro, the fool really is"
Tsunade: "Just like the yellow flash"
Ei: " Youre second person to ever outrun my fastest much" U_U
Viz translations
~ again shunshin comparison. Tsuande witness naruto soeed and compare it to minato speed
~ shunshin not comparable to hiriashin, so it impossible for people to be comparing minato hiraishin to kcm naruto shunshin
~ says outrun, not dodge, evade or counter...OUTRUN

6. Gai: "what the?! Such speed!"
Kakashi: "Sensei?!
~ Another indirect comparison of naruto speed to be compared to minato.
~ Hiriashin is instant. So all theses comparison i list above cannot to be just solely Hiriashin, because hiriashin isnt and no mobility require.

7. Hiruzen:"you as fast as ever, minato"
Tobirama:"Your shunshin is better than mine"
~ again another shunshin feat. Minato arrive on battle field first with not hiraishin. Shunshin only.
~ hiruzen know minato is fastest, tgat why he can only praise minato again.
~ tobirama once fastest man alive. Say minato shinshin betrer. Why tobirama say that? Because tobirama know minato is so fast
~ tobirama also have hiraishin, so we know hiraishin not make you fastest shinobi
~ tobirama obviosuly be fastest shinobi without hiraishin. Tobirama obviosuly must have had the best shunshin of his time.
~ that why kishimoto make tobirama say that. Because even tobirama shunshin pale in comparison to minato. And tobirama had fastest shunshin of his time, it obvious. That why tobirama feel need to say that minato surpass him




Why people try so harded to interpret manga different to their own style. Why not just read what kishimoto has writtien instead of try change it. Such arrogance and disrespect to author work. Kishi call minato fastest, Ei call minato fastest, Tobirama call minato faster. Yet if all 3 of those character have race, people try to say Minato wont win??? Kishi will slap some of your stupidity if he ever read these things. Minato prasiee for both shunshin ajd hiraishin. Minato nickname noted for both hiraishin and shunshin... Manga fact. Kcm naruto shunshin feat always compare to minato shunshin Fact.

 

[KidGamer65]

Why it matters: So we shouldn't only base their battle from their first experience. Since we have witness Obito praising Minato Shisuin. Which gives a reason why he keeps the title as the fastest to the end of Ay's experience with him. Minto's first experience didn't know what to expect and almost got blitz.

And now that I've confirmed what you are trying to argue, it's irrelevant since you have no proof that Minato showed anything that'd let him be faster than Ay on foot in their later encounters.

Its as much as believing KCM Naruto wouldn't have been able to dodge Ay's punch if just stood there, trying to react to it. Naruto had to remain in motion to outpace Ay. Standing still is not an option for him as much as Minato.

That's irrelevant. You don't need to build up momentum by running when you have Shunshin. Shunshin creates all the momentum you need to move.

Thats exactly my point! As address above.

Too bad that your point isn't really a complete one, at least not for this argument. Him not knowing about Ay's speed is irrelevant unless you can prove to me that something changed.

Again your basing off their first battle, a motionless Minato with no intel. Ay never mention FTG being the only reason he acknowledge Minato's speed being superior (he was never specific). All he mention was speed. Minato fighting Ay many times means he had to keep dealing with Ay's speed. So that means Ay keeps getting played and teleportation and keeps getting play by Minatos reacting to it, just to teleport away from it, every single time?

-Ay talks about the savior.

-Ay talks about the fastest man. Only man faster than him.

-Ay flashes back to when the fastest man dodges his fastest punch, meaning that'd be the time he solidified Minaot as the fastest man.

-Naruto performs same feat, and Ay says the savior "Minato" is alive in him.

Yes, and he had Hiraishin as a counter to Ay's speed, as we've shown. You are going to need proof that Shunshin is one of his counters, otherwise there's no reason for me to continue replying to this point.

Ok we got DB stating how he got his title. And we also have manga Shishin to live up it too.

Nope. It lives up to the fact that he's fast, not the fact that he's the fastest, the Yellow Flash. Unless you want to say his Shunshin is just as good as his Hiraishin. Lol.

Um no he didn't that scan fully supports bodyflicker. No markings around his wife/area, about to get crushed by Kyuubi. Proof that its marked.

No markings on top of the tree Minato landed safe to. Proof it that its marked

If you can't my point is clear.

This is why I told you to READ before you reply.

Hate to break your bubble here. He used Hiraishin. "SFX: FFP" is never ever used for Shunshin. Only for Hiraishin.

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"FFP" is never used for Minato's Shunshin, only his Hiraishin. Unless you can show this SFX being used for his Shunshin, despite it and most other Shunshin's not being "FFP", my point is clear and correct. Also, read the

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. His formula is on Kushina. He teleported to her, and then teleported to the tree.

I could care less about how he got his name recognition . This manga scan proves his Shishuin goes along his moniker just like saving his wife to which I am waiting for proof using FTG in those point of location. He can have yellow flash due to FTG being being announced as the fastest man, we can consider his Shisuin too just like Obito did.

Already replied to this point above. You trying to equate Shunshin and Hiraishin is moronic. Not to mention how he got is everything. If he needed Hiraishin to get said nickname, then it's obvious as shit that his Shunshin wasn't fast enough to grant him the title of the Yellow Flash. Obito saying he lives up to the name only means that he's fast w/o Hiraishin, not that he's the fastest.

Your telling Obito is wrong and I am telling you Obito, Yamato, Tsunade, and Kakashi are right Lol.

Except none of them ever said Minato is the fastest with Shunshin, nor did they ever say he's equal with KCM Naruto or BM Naruto in speed. It's just you attempting to twist the manga.

These are manga facts that he uses both shishin and FTG that makes him well known as the fastest man. Along with characters stating similarity of this speed. Manga facts.

Except there aren't.

Nobody that and that wasnt the point.

You made a statement of how Madara blitzing SM Naruto makes his body flicker superior to V1 Raiton. Base on the fact that Tobirama is faster then Madara means he is superior to Madara, who you think is between v1 and v2 speed.

Get the picture?

Doesn't mean that Tobirama is faster than V2 speed, so your point is completely irrelevant.

Irrelevant at this point since not even the context to where you believe FTG is his only hype of speed, connects a point here. Its a title, nothing more.

Nope. Read before you reply. I said Hiraishin is the reason why he's known as the fastest, and is the reason why he became the Yellow Flash. Those are both manga facts. Him having speed hype for his Shunshin=/=It making him the fastest.

But for you to say that is also discredit manga panels of his Shishin being used and stated too Lol.

Read above. Literally the same point.

Actually parallels does work because it supports the manga to determine and rationalize a character strength and power to what we haven't seen yet. Just you arguing for the sake of it.

I already posted multiple examples that obliterate this. Unless you are dumb enough to tell me that Hiraishin=KCM Naruto's speed (Minato and Naruto dodging Ay's punch was paralleled), and that KCM Naruto=Minato's=BM Naruto's speed, even though BM Naruto>KCM Naruto in speed, then you should drop the parallel point.

"Naruto moves just like"! Is a statement made many times to determine a feat.

Then I suggest you get ready to admit that you are asserting KCM=Hiraishin in speed, cause that's exactly what the parallel is all about.

Sasuke parallel inst base on a feat but reminisces of the team work he did with brother. So no terrible logic and terrible reasoning to validate your point.

Irrelevant if it's not based on a feat, that rule is something you pulled from the depths of your anus. It's still a parallel. The only difference is WHY the parallel is being made. Naruto and Minato's parallel is NOT made to equate their speed.

Um no being able to deflect a Buijuu doesn't =/= being faster. Thats just nonsense trying and desperate reach, to something that has no support pf explaining speed superiority.

If only KCM Naruto had a speed feat on that level....but he doesn't.

He has only shown to get faster one time and thats when he tamed Kurama and gain access to KCM. So the rest of your statements are being pulled right out of your ass. And then attempt to have me prove a negative. You should know how debating works, as you are reminding me.

Lol, this is why we read the manga, so we don't say stupid shit like the bold. To anyone who actually bothered to read the manga, you'd know that the reason Naruto's speed was displayed again, and yet another parallel was made to Minato, is because his speed has gotten better. He was in KCM for the whole fight, yet Kishi didn't bother to show off any speed until then. Then there's the FACT that a better cloak and more power=better stats. I might as well take your concession on that latter point since you've done nothing to counter it but say "It's pulled out of the ass" Probably because if I actually bring scans you'll have no argument.

Killer B

-V1 Cloak speed.

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-V2 Cloak speed.

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He went from being dodged by Samehada, to blitzing Kisame. Better cloak=More power. Not gonna bother trying to prove that, cause anyone who reads the manga knows it.

Naruto

-KN1 speed

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-KN6 speed.

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Outrun by Deva.

-KCM speed.

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Then there's him getting shat on at VoTE by 3-Tomoe Sasuke, only to do the shitting once he got a second tail. Better cloak=Better stats and that includes speed. Unless you also want to moronically assert that BM cloak=KCM cloak, there is no dispute here. BM Naruto>KCM Naruto in speed.

Whenever he has gotten more and better control of Kurama's power, he's gotten faster, stronger, and his attacks become more powerful. BM>>>KCM when it comes to amount of Kurama's power being used, because he's only using a part of it in KCM, in BM he's using ALL of Kurama's unrestricted power. Control is much better too for obvious reasons.

Even if I were to believe this BS of interpretation, my point still stands on the point of Hashirama getting tagged. Even if Minato base shisuin is as good as base Naruto. KCM makes his moves just as fast as Naruto power boost Lol. His speed feat surpasses Ay who needed help of Onoki to blitz Madara.

I suggest you actually prove that KCM Naruto is faster than Ay and Onoki, otherwise this point has no merit. If Minato's only as fast as KCM Naruto, he's easily reacted to with little difficulty. In reality, you have no real evidence that Minato is faster than Ay on foot, nor do you have any real evidence that Ay and Onoki can even blitz Madara, you've only posted scans of them hitting Susanoo before it can retaliate.

 

[Narutimate Storm]

This is why I told you to READ before you reply.

Hate to break your bubble here. He used Hiraishin. "SFX: FFP" is never ever used for Shunshin. Only for Hiraishin.

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"FFP" is never used for Minato's Shunshin, only his Hiraishin. Unless you can show this SFX being used for his Shunshin, despite it and most other Shunshin's not being "FFP", my point is clear and correct. Also, read the

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. His formula is on Kushina. He teleported to her, and then teleported to the tree.

.

Look at this fool again. Chatting rubbish XD

"FFP" = Fan translation.

Why not use eyes and common sense instead of made up crap. Minato use hiraishin to teleport to kushina, but he use shunshin to get to tree. How can minato teleprot to tree with no marking? are you stupid. Random tree you think minato putted mark there before. Can minaro see into future now to know he will need that specific tree Lol.

Japanese symbol used to represent fast movement for shunshin, is one of the ones kishimoto use:

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He use it for sasuke to show sasuke speed

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Use same for minato to show shunshun speed

Do you see any "Fwp" for sasuke panel? NO! Stop looking at fan translation and get proper viz. Dumbass. Or better just read symbol that kishi ise. Not that hard.

Go get feat that put Ei shunshin above all Minato shunshin feat, such as this:

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Or any minato shunshin feat shown before. Ei have no such feat. Only short short distance range.

 

[BLAZE]

"FFP" = Fan translation.

Stop posting garbage

 

[Icelerate]

Looks like Team overrated got overrated in this thread. Can't say I'm surprised.

 

[KidGamer65]

^ Lol, Team Overrated indeed.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Got time for one reply.

That's irrelevant. You don't need to build up momentum by running when you have Shunshin. Shunshin creates all the momentum you need to move.

Shunshin focuses on putting chakra on your feet to move faster. If you not in motion, ready to move, then you cant Shushin with foot speed.

Too bad that your point isn't really a complete one, at least not for this argument. Him not knowing about Ay's speed is irrelevant unless you can prove to me that something changed.

I gave a reason to which you attempt to make irrelevant @ above.

-Ay talks about the savior.

-Ay talks about the fastest man. Only man faster than him.

-Ay flashes back to when the fastest man dodges his fastest punch, meaning that'd be the time he solidified Minaot as the fastest man.

-Naruto performs same feat, and Ay says the savior "Minato" is alive in him.

Lol nice try twisting manga. The first two points are out of context to the story. Yes he does talk about Minato being the fastest man. But Ay's flash back is showing the bond between Bee and Ay relationship. Thus the whole chapter titled base on them. Not him remembering why get Ay was beaten from his speed.

Yes, and he had Hiraishin as a counter to Ay's speed, as we've shown. You are going to need proof that Shunshin is one of his counters, otherwise there's no reason for me to continue replying to this point.

Proof is base on KCM Naruto's speed being compare to Minato's from other people, which we are arguing valid.

Proof is base on Obito mentioning Minato fame when he Shushin for his wife and kid, which we are arguing valid

Nope. It lives up to the fact that he's fast, not the fact that he's the fastest, the Yellow Flash. Unless you want to say his Shunshin is just as good as his Hiraishin. Lol.

In what context would I say as good as Hirashin? By speed obviously not since teleport beats speed. By fame yes.

Hate to break your bubble here. He used Hiraishin. "SFX: FFP" is never ever used for Shunshin. Only for Hiraishin.

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This scan isn't nearly close to the 2 points I gave via saving his wife and son through Shisuin. So not sure why your bringing these scans

"FFP" is never used for Minato's Shunshin, only his Hiraishin. Unless you can show this SFX being used for his Shunshin, despite it and most other Shunshin's not being "FFP", my point is clear and correct. Also, read the

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. His formula is on Kushina. He teleported to her, and then teleported to the tree.

Never said FFP does (even though there some scenes that theres no FFP in FTG movement, but thats another story to irrelevant point).

I concede teleporting to Kushina but not to the tree, since theres no marking there.

Already replied to this point above. You trying to equate Shunshin and Hiraishin is moronic. Not to mention how he got is everything. If he needed Hiraishin to get said nickname, then it's obvious as shit that his Shunshin wasn't fast enough to grant him the title of the Yellow Flash. Obito saying he lives up to the name only means that he's fast w/o Hiraishin, not that he's the fastest.

That was my point actually: that you try to equate FTG = Shushin since YOU DONT believe Minato does not live up to his Shunshin. And SINCE YOU dont believe it every context of that explains Naruto's Shushin resembling Minato, you believe it means something else.

Except none of them ever said Minato is the fastest with Shunshin, nor did they ever say he's equal with KCM Naruto or BM Naruto in speed. It's just you attempting to twist the manga.

Your right they were never specific in category. We know he was the fastest man, period. Every says he moves just like Minato = Naruto speed is just like Minato. Theres no way around this argument.

Doesn't mean that Tobirama is faster than V2 speed, so your point is completely irrelevant.

How it is irrelevant? Since Tobirama since we know Tobirama > Madara in speed and Minato> Tobirama. Which you outright believe Madara speed scaling is V1.5 speed compare to Raikage.

So we have Madara whos V1.5 (as an example)< Tobirama being a bit higher then 1.5 < Minato =?= V2 Ay. Just look how solid the speed comparison is without KCM.

I already posted multiple examples that obliterate this. Unless you are dumb enough to tell me that Hiraishin=KCM Naruto's speed (Minato and Naruto dodging Ay's punch was paralleled), and that KCM Naruto=Minato's=BM Naruto's speed, even though BM Naruto>KCM Naruto in speed, then you should drop the parallel point.

Deleting things addressed already for time and space.

Irrelevant if it's not based on a feat, that rule is something you pulled from the depths of your anus. It's still a parallel. The only difference is WHY the parallel is being made. Naruto and Minato's parallel is NOT made to equate their speed.

So answer it for me. Explain Tsunade, Yamato, and Kakashi's saying.

If only KCM Naruto had a speed feat on that level....but he doesn't.

What level, thats not a feat to determine moving faster Lol.

Lol, this is why we read the manga, so we don't say stupid shit like the bold. To anyone who actually bothered to read the manga, you'd know that the reason Naruto's speed was displayed again, and yet another parallel was made to Minato, is because his speed has gotten better. He was in KCM for the whole fight, yet Kishi didn't bother to show off any speed until then. Then there's the FACT that a better cloak and more power=better stats. I might as well take your concession on that latter point since you've done nothing to counter it but say "It's pulled out of the ass" Probably because if I actually bring scans you'll have no argument.

Killer B

-V1 Cloak speed.

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-V2 Cloak speed.

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He went from being dodged by Samehada, to blitzing Kisame. Better cloak=More power. Not gonna bother trying to prove that, cause anyone who reads the manga knows it.

Naruto

-KN1 speed

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-KN6 speed.

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Outrun by Deva.

-KCM speed.

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Then there's him getting shat on at VoTE by 3-Tomoe Sasuke, only to do the shitting once he got a second tail. Better cloak=Better stats and that includes speed. Unless you also want to moronically assert that BM cloak=KCM cloak, there is no dispute here. BM Naruto>KCM Naruto in speed.

Whenever he has gotten more and better control of Kurama's power, he's gotten faster, stronger, and his attacks become more powerful. BM>>>KCM when it comes to amount of Kurama's power being used, because he's only using a part of it in KCM, in BM he's using ALL of Kurama's unrestricted power. Control is much better too for obvious reasons.

Ill give this to you even though your examples didn't prove you anything and its too much working breaking them down.

I suggest you actually prove that KCM Naruto is faster than Ay and Onoki, otherwise this point has no merit. If Minato's only as fast as KCM Naruto, he's easily reacted to with little difficulty. In reality, you have no real evidence that Minato is faster than Ay on foot, nor do you have any real evidence that Ay and Onoki can even blitz Madara, you've only posted scans of them hitting Susanoo before it can retaliate.

KCM Naruto is known as the fastest when he beat Ays speed. Your asking me to prove a negative from your stand point. I broke down Minato speed being compare to Base Naruto just to show you, since he is way faster then Base Naruto, that the gap in speed with KCM makes my claim much more valid then any blitz we have witness from Ay (with or without Onoki) and Naruto.

Hitting Susanoo before it can retalitate doesn't mean Madara did since we know Madara can react on his own and Susanoo just follows. He didnt react therefore my point is valid to someone who can move faster for this match up.

 

[Amaterasu]

There will be haters if I say that BM Minato alone can beat Hashirama ?

 

[I'm stupid real stupid]

There will be haters if I say that BM Minato alone can beat Hashirama ?

But Hashirama can defeat BM Minato med-high diff.

 

[Amaterasu]

But Hashirama can defeat BM Minato med-high diff.

With only his SM ? I really doubt it.

 

[KidGamer65]

Got time for one reply.




Shunshin focuses on putting chakra on your feet to move faster. If you not in motion, ready to move, then you cant Shushin with foot speed.

Wrong. Shunshin focuses chakra to the feet, and then releases it all at once for

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I gave a reason to which you attempt to make irrelevant @ above.

How does the mechanics of Shunshin prove your point?

Lol nice try twisting manga. The first two points are out of context to the story. Yes he does talk about Minato being the fastest man. But Ay's flash back is showing the bond between Bee and Ay relationship. Thus the whole chapter titled base on them. Not him remembering why get Ay was beaten from his speed.

I don't care what it was based on, as long as the bold was part of it, which it is, then my point stands. If the bold wasn't part of it, we wouldn't have any kind of parallel between the "savior" and Naruto. That was to mark a checkpoint in Naruto's growth and to tell us of Ay and B's relationship.

Proof is base on KCM Naruto's speed being compare to Minato's from other people, which we are arguing valid.

Those don't show equality. Comparisons don't show equality unless you can prove they show equality. Is Naruto=to Hiraishin? Nope.

Proof is base on Obito mentioning Minato fame when he Shushin for his wife and kid, which we are arguing valid

Unless you think Shunshin=Hiraishin, this point is invalid. His Yellow Flash speed is his Hiraishin, him living up to the name w/ Shunshin doesn't mean that he's the fastest with Shunshin, it means that he is fast.

In what context would I say as good as Hirashin? By speed obviously not since teleport beats speed. By fame yes.

If you are trying to say his Shunshin is what gets him the Yellow Flash status, then that is exactly what you are saying.

This scan isn't nearly close to the 2 points I gave via saving his wife and son through Shisuin. So not sure why your bringing these scans

Read before you post so I don't have to answer unnecessary questions. This goes with the post below. These are posts that show Hiraishin uses "FFP", and not Shunshin.

Never said FFP does (even though there some scenes that theres no FFP in FTG movement, but thats another story to irrelevant point).

Irrelevant. Unless you can show where "FFP" was used for Shunshin, then we can talk about it being for both, until then, it's only for Hiraishin.

I concede teleporting to Kushina but not to the tree, since theres no marking there.

Unless you can actually prove anything I said here wrong, this is you ignoring an argument, which is the same as conceding it.

That was my point actually: that you try to equate FTG = Shushin since YOU DONT believe Minato does not live up to his Shunshin.

Does not live up to his Shunshin=/=Fastest with his Shunshin.

And SINCE YOU dont believe it every context of that explains Naruto's Shushin resembling Minato, you believe it means something else.

Yellow Flash is because of Hiraishin- FACT. Naruto is not equal to Hiraishin, so they weren't nor were they ever comparing their speed to each other.

Your right they were never specific in category. We know he was the fastest man, period. Every says he moves just like Minato = Naruto speed is just like Minato. Theres no way around this argument.

There is no argument or scan that equalizes their speed, only talks about how they are both extremely fast.

How it is irrelevant? Since Tobirama since we know Tobirama > Madara in speed and Minato> Tobirama. Which you outright believe Madara speed scaling is V1.5 speed compare to Raikage.
So we have Madara whos V1.5 (as an example)< Tobirama being a bit higher then 1.5 < Minato =?= V2 Ay. Just look how solid the speed comparison is without KCM.

Nope. This is you trying to define the speed gap between the three with absolutely zero evidence. Get proof that being faster than Tobirama and Madara makes him faster than Ay. That makes absolutely no sense and lacks any kind of logical reasoning. V2 Ay>Minato>Tobirama>Madara>V1 Raikage

So answer it for me. Explain Tsunade, Yamato, and Kakashi's saying.

He's extremely fast like Minato was. Nothing more, nothing less. Not sure why Yamato's statement is relevant here since he never ever made a comment on Naruto's flash speed.

Ill give this to you even though your examples didn't prove you anything and its too much working breaking them down.

They prove everything. The better the cloak, the better the enhancements. The fact I had to explain that is kind of pathetic on your part. Unless you believe BM Naruto=KCM Naruto=Base Minato in speed, this parallel nonsense is a BS argument. BM Naruto is factually>>KCM Naruto when it comes to speed.

KCM Naruto is known as the fastest when he beat Ays speed. Your asking me to prove a negative from your stand point. I broke down Minato speed being compare to Base Naruto just to show you, since he is way faster then Base Naruto, that the gap in speed with KCM makes my claim much more valid then any blitz we have witness from Ay (with or without Onoki) and Naruto.

Learn what proving a negative is. You said that KCM Minato would be faster than Ay and Onoki even if he was equal in speed to Naruto, and I asked you to prove it. If you believe KCM Minato is faster than Ay and Onoki, just prove it. That's not called proving a negative, you make a positive claim, and you don't back it up, so I'm asking you to prove it.

Hitting Susanoo before it can retalitate doesn't mean Madara did since we know Madara can react on his own and Susanoo just follows. He didnt react therefore my point is valid to someone who can move faster for this match up.

Except you can't tell if he didn't react. You can only tell that his Susanoo was blitzed. Madara was facing forward before they attacked, but was facing backwards once they landed their attack. Pretty obvious that he reacted.

 

[Conspirator.]

Hashirama takes them out with high difficulty.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Wrong. Shunshin focuses chakra to the feet, and then releases it all at once for

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Are you stressed? Your repeating what I just explain so how am I wrong? Because you needed it to be put in your own words for it to be more right?

How does the mechanics of Shunshin prove your point?

It proves that even KCM Naruto, whos faster then Ay, cant dodge his full speed or even V1 motionless. Your attempting to prove since their first encounter, no intel Minato, needed to use the same method over and over, to dodge Ay, as they fought many times. Minato's option, at the time, was only teleport.

As you notice I delete everything here as its clear this isn't going anywhere by trying to prove each other wrong. Even all that, and if I were to agree with all your interpretation, my very point of this thread is still as solid of a claim.

You dont believe Minato foots speed is faster then Ay, sure. But the very fact the we can conclude its close, is just as good and doesn't change my premise.

Learn what proving a negative is. You said that KCM Minato would be faster than Ay and Onoki even if he was equal in speed to Naruto, and I asked you to prove it. If you believe KCM Minato is faster than Ay and Onoki, just prove it. That's not called proving a negative, you make a positive claim, and you don't back it up, so I'm asking you to prove it.

1. Base Naruto's Shishun at the time is pathetic in comparison to the top dogs.
2. Base Minato Shishun is not to far from Ay's speed as I quote from you: "V2 Ay>Minato>Tobirama>Madara>V1 Raikage"
3. Naruto tames Kurama chakra boost blows them all of them away, making him the fastest character then. Along with other levels such as BM

Therefore: Minato who has tamed both KCM boost and BM boost by manga, or OP conditions, gets his base speed boost dramatically too.

Except you can't tell if he didn't react. You can only tell that his Susanoo was blitzed. Madara was facing forward before they attacked, but was facing backwards once they landed their attack. Pretty obvious that he reacted.

Read the scan again

1. Ay blitz effect happen before Madara reacted, according to panel time to when Ay accord and Madara ( as he is last panel) reacts in shocked.
2. Ay blitz Madara straight on.frontal. He blitz Muu first and Blitz Madara as you see his body being body looking like he got punched in the gut. Susanoo double heads makes it look confusing, thinking he got hit in the back:

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I drew 2 arrows and and a curve.

bottom arrow makes it clear that Madara's feet is facing Ay.
top arrow makes it clear that it can't be his face thats spiky but to prove thats his hair.
Curve is just the motion I explain previously that shows Madara looking like he got hit in the gut

 

[KidGamer65]

Are you stressed? Your repeating what I just explain so how am I wrong? Because you needed it to be put in your own words for it to be more right?

Lol..this is why I avoid debating with illiterates. If I'm stressed (Which I'm not at the moment) it'd probably because I'm repeating stuff I've already said. You said that you can't Shunshin w/ foot speed if you aren't in motion, that scan proves you wrong. You don't need momentum to use Shunshin. Never have, never will.

Not to mention "You need to be in motion to use Shunshin" is not what I just said. Please read before you reply, I've told you this like 5 times now.

It proves that even KCM Naruto, whos faster then Ay, cant dodge his full speed or even V1 motionless. Your attempting to prove since their first encounter, no intel Minato, needed to use the same method over and over, to dodge Ay, as they fought many times. Minato's option, at the time, was only teleport.

Except it doesn't, because the above point makes no sense. Being in motion isn't going to make you unable to Shunshin nor will it make your Shunshin any slower than normal. In BM Naruto has Flash Shunshin'd two-three times, and he wasn't in motion any other time. When Kakashi saw Minato in his place, that wasn't him in motion.

So no, Naruto doesn't need to be in motion to be able to evade Ay.

And since there is no evidence to the contrary, I have no reason to believe he used Shunshin. It's really that simple. "Hurr, multiple encounters" isn't going to prove that Minato used Shunshin on it's own.

As you notice I delete everything here as its clear this isn't going anywhere by trying to prove each other wrong. Even all that, and if I were to agree with all your interpretation, my very point of this thread is still as solid of a claim.

You dont believe Minato foots speed is faster then Ay, sure. But the very fact the we can conclude its close, is just as good and doesn't change my premise.

Uh, no. I have no reason to believe it's close. Unless you can get some evidence, don't bother making anymore assertions about Minato's speed.

1. Base Naruto's Shishun at the time is pathetic in comparison to the top dogs.

Base Naruto intercepted Sasuke's swing when he was about to kill Sakura. Pathetic? No. Far below? Yes. Far far below.

2. Base Minato Shishun is not to far from Ay's speed as I quote from you: "V2 Ay>Minato>Tobirama>Madara>V1 Raikage"

Lol. Wow....this is getting pretty ridiculous. Allow me to use your logic.

Kaguya>Hagoromo>Konohamaru>Boruto

By your logic, Konohamaru is close in power to Hagoromo, just because he's stronger than Boruto who is weaker. Minato being faster than someone faster than V1 Ay, doesn't mean he's on V2 Ay's speed level. Not unless you have evidence. That makes no sense.

3. Naruto tames Kurama chakra boost blows them all of them away, making him the fastest character then. Along with other levels such as BM

Uh-huh.

Therefore: Minato who has tamed both KCM boost and BM boost by manga, or OP conditions, gets his base speed boost dramatically too.

If you can show me Minato's cloak changing, I'll give him the BM boost, until then....nope.

Read the scan again

1. Ay blitz effect happen before Madara reacted, according to panel time to when Ay accord and Madara ( as he is last panel) reacts in shocked.

2. Ay blitz Madara straight on.frontal. He blitz Muu first and Blitz Madara as you see his body being body looking like he got punched in the gut. Susanoo double heads makes it look confusing, thinking he got hit in the back:

Uh....no.

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Susanoo doesn't have double heads in this stage, only when Madara uses Complete Susanoo. Even if it does, it clearly wasn't there this time around, so Madara got hit in the back, and he turned around before they actually made contact with the Susanoo. His body looks like that because he turned around, and his Susanoo got a hit. Ay moved before reacted, doesn't mean that Ay blitzed Madara, since Madara reacted before Ay reached and attacked him from his back.

Then there's the fact that Susanoo's arms are extending backward, meaning it got hit in the back. If it got hit in the front, it's arms would be extending forward.

So no, you are wrong here too. Madara reacted, so Hashirama would as well, especially since all he needs to do is clap his hands. Then there's the fact he has Sage Mode, which can be entered instantly according to the Databook, which will increase his reaction speed. Thus if Edo Madara reacts, SM Hashirama reacts way better and way faster.

Lol, and "In shock"? Madara shows no kind of facial expression that shows surprise or shock.

 

[Bogard]

Hmm never noticed it was BM Minato, then the team wins. With Kyubi chakra shroud, Itachi should be able to replicate Perfect Susanoo considering Kakashi managed to the first instance he got rikudo chakra with regular MS(killing the theory around the fact EMS is needed). I think the reason Itachi couldn't achieve it was his chakra reserve. Onoki did say the materialized chakra was immense when Madara used it. And it seems that being in contact with Kyubi's(Naruto's) chakra helped Sasuke to use bigger forms of Susanoo especially since in the DB he isn't listed as one under natural means

With this he can easily defend himself. But even if he couldn't(somehow), he can assist Minato while siting inside the shroud during his battle versus Hashirama with long range attacks(like Amaterasu). With the Shroud he should be able to spam it and judging by how dangerous and easily it could spread through wood(seeing how it could spread through an entire forest during his final fight), i beg for Hashirama's safety

Minato himself may use a clone inside the Kyubi's shroud for him to safely collect natural energy inside and act as a medium to transfer it to him during combat similarly to how Juugo did to Sasuke, increasing all his special characteristics

The Bijudamas of perfect Jinchuriki Kyubi are vastly stronger than regular ones the Shinsuusenju managed to block(although was almost completely destroyed) considering that just one matched the power of 5 Bijus are in collision with it, created a much stronger explosion and greater AOE than the one created during the VOTE. After few attempts, even Shinsuusenju will be turn to dust

Considering that in base, Minato is already faster than Hashirama, being in a BM enhanced with continuous Sage Mode attacks will make him even faster to easily cover large distances with shunshin alone, similarly and most certainly even better than BM Naruto showed the capacity to manage and thus Hashirama's mokuton attacks are dodgeable. His chakra arms could also match Obito Jin's in his perfect form, something that could easily destroy the senpou gates. Not to mention with the power of the Biju cloak, i think no one is going to deny the possibility in Minato spreading his tags in much larger areas than Hashirama can cover with his mokuton usage, making restriction impossible with Hiraishin. Not that they are even a threat anyway judging by the scale they would be fighting in. Every Mokuton construct not only will be too small but would disappear rather easily with the strength of chakra roars and Bijudamas and Kyubi's immense strength

In combination with Hiraishin or Space time barrier, it also make his attacks harder to predict and can cover all Hashirama's angles at once, especially if he aided himself with clones

I think BSM Minato alone wins this, but with a boosted Itachi here, they take it comfortably

 

[Demonic.]

With Kyubi chakra shroud, Itachi should be able to replicate Perfect Susanoo considering Kakashi managed to the first instance he got rikudo chakra with regular MS(killing the theory around the fact EMS is needed).

Comparing kyubi chakra to Rikudo chakra

Spoiler

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[Bogard]

Comparing kyubi chakra to Rikudo chakra

Spoiler

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Both enhance techniques. A regular Kyubi chakra(without cloak) managed to make Kakashi's Kamui 3 times more powerful

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Base Naruto intercepted Sasuke's swing when he was about to kill Sakura. Pathetic? No. Far below? Yes. Far far below.

Why you insist to just argue, just agree with the point I am making if you are going to agree

Lol. Wow....this is getting pretty ridiculous. Allow me to use your logic.

Kaguya>Hagoromo>Konohamaru>Boruto

By your logic, Konohamaru is close in power to Hagoromo, just because he's stronger than Boruto who is weaker. Minato being faster than someone faster than V1 Ay, doesn't mean he's on V2 Ay's speed level. Not unless you have evidence. That makes no sense.

If it makes you that rustled let me reword it, as it isnt going to change my point.

Minato Shishin is second fastest character in Base form alone, only being below V2 Ay. Happy?

If you can show me Minato's cloak changing, I'll give him the BM boost, until then....nope.

This is why I didn't want to drag out your whole point of your logic of power boost only for you to only disagree with the ones that doesn't fit your view.

Regardless having KCM boost is already enough to prove my point.

Uh....no.

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Susanoo doesn't have double heads in this stage, only when Madara uses Complete Susanoo. Even if it does, it clearly wasn't there this time around, so Madara got hit in the back, and he turned around before they actually made contact with the Susanoo. His body looks like that because he turned around, and his Susanoo got a hit. Ay moved before reacted, doesn't mean that Ay blitzed Madara, since Madara reacted before Ay reached and attacked him from his back.

Then there's the fact that Susanoo's arms are extending backward, meaning it got hit in the back. If it got hit in the front, it's arms would be extending forward.

(Sigh) Yes, it does KG and that was also clearly complete Susanoo KG. Just because we dont see a visual back view of the back head doesn't mean it wasnt there. As it clear that happened in this panel[

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] bottom panel doesn't show a second view only because of its POV from the scan. One sword/face mirrors the other side. So please stop your wrong, in this case.

So no, you are wrong here too. Madara reacted, so Hashirama would as well, especially since all he needs to do is clap his hands. Then there's the fact he has Sage Mode, which can be entered instantly according to the Databook, which will increase his reaction speed. Thus if Edo Madara reacts, SM Hashirama reacts way better and way faster.

Lol, and "In shock"? Madara shows no kind of facial expression that shows surprise or shock.[/QUOTE]

Assuming that clapping his hand, activating SM, then dodge will be faster process then a blitz. Even though your premise to to think Base Hashirama would be enough to dodge.

Ok so Madara just had his normal expressive, after looking dumbfound to the incoming attack right after Muu.

 

[Demonic.]

Both enhance techniques. A regular Kyubi chakra(without cloak) managed to make Kakashi's Kamui 3 times more powerful

Of course they both enhance techniques Lol doesn't mean they are comparable

-With Rikudo chakra, Kakashi skipped all of the stages of Susano (ribcage to PS) and went straight to a winged PS, no less.

-Sasuke with a Kyubi cloak was able to add legs to his Susano.

That's like comparing this:

Spoiler

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To this:

Spoiler

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[KidGamer65]

Why you insist to just argue, just agree with the point I am making.

No. You are making the gap seem much larger than it actually is, and I'm going to get the fact that it isn't across right now instead of later.

If it makes you that rustled let me reword it, as it isnt going to change my point.

Minato Shishin is second fastest character in Base form alone, only being below V2 Ay. Happy?

I feel like you did terribly in whatever reading comprehension class you've taken or are currently taking.

"Minato is close to Ay"

"Minato is faster than V1 Ay, but slower than V2 Ay"

Those things don't mean the same thing. Do I have to give you an English lesson myself? Cause this is getting pretty ridiculous. Please don't say "reword" when that implies you are changing the words but keeping the same meaning.

This is why I didn't want to drag out your whole point of your logic of power boost only for you to only disagree with the ones that doesn't fit your view.

My logic was based on the cloaks, and since you can't show me the change in his cloak, you have no point, that simple.

Regardless having KCM boost is already enough to prove my point.

It isn't.

(Sigh) Yes, it does KG and that was also clearly complete Susanoo KG. Just because we dont see a visual back view of the back head doesn't mean it wasnt there. As it clear that happened in this panel[

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] bottom panel doesn't show a second view only because of its POV from the scan. One sword/face mirrors the other side. So please stop your wrong, in this case.

Lol, so basically you have no counter argument? You've done nothing but say it was Complete Susanoo (Which is irrelevant since it being Complete Susanoo doesn't mean it has to have two heads) and then say that it has 2 heads, despite 2 heads never being shown. I suggest we start using common sense.

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That is a tilted view, if there was another head on the backside of the Susanoo, you would see part of it. But guess what? There is nothing behind it's head.

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Where's the double head? Parts of it would have been in at least one of these panels if it had a double head.

Not to mention that doesn't change the following:

Even if it does, it clearly wasn't there this time around, so Madara got hit in the back, and he turned around before they actually made contact with the Susanoo. His body looks like that because he turned around, and his Susanoo got a hit. Ay moved before reacted, doesn't mean that Ay blitzed Madara, since Madara reacted before Ay reached and attacked him from his back.

Then there's the fact that Susanoo's arms are extending backward, meaning it got hit in the back. If it got hit in the front, it's arms would be extending forward

So once again. Drop this point. You are wrong. Arguing further only makes you look bad, not me.

Assuming that clapping his hand, activating SM, then dodge will be faster process then a blitz. Even though your premise to to think Base Hashirama would be enough to dodge.

Dodge? Lol. Who said he'd dodge? He doesn't need to dodge, he only needs to block with Mokuton, hence clapping his hands. Entering Sage Mode is instant for Hashirama. Unless Minato's blitz is instant or nigh instant.....Lol. You have no point there either.

Ok so Madara just had his normal expressive, after looking dumbfound to the incoming attack right after Muu.

Do I have to get pics of a dumbfounded expression? What Madara had isn't a dumbfounded expression.