Shameful retcon

[MAN OF SIN]

Naruto wanted to fight Sasuke though because he saw that as his best shot of being able to save him. Like I said, show me where Naruto clearly wanted to change his destiny of being a transmigrant and being a child of prophecy?

I'm pretty such Naruto wanted to talk Sasuke out of it more than fighting him.

 

[Angelic.]

He would have told he was sage's younger Son Transmigrant . He was the one who told Hago about Blue eyed boy who will Show the Tailed beast new path and Save the World .

he was going to say the outcome of the fight.

also the frog guy didnt mention anything at all about obito madara and the juubi. he skipped them as if it wasnt important even though naruto almost broke during it.

 

[Xlad]

I'm just going to go with what an old member here posted.

there's a common misconception with destiny and hardwork and this is to try and clear it up
because of neji's dad dying for the main family neji thought that destiny is something you can't escape;naruto said deciding destiny because of that is a mistake

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which is true the branch family destiny is to die for the main family but neji's dad still decided it on his own

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naruto pointed out that, in a way neji, was going against his destiny in his fight against hinata

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after neji finds out the truth of what happened with his dad he thinks to himself
father...is a person's destiny a thing like a cloud flowing with an inescapable flow?or can a person choose the flow he wishes?I still dont know the answer to this.Either way the destination may be the same in the end,but by living like the latter a person can live and strive towards his goal because even though his dad died protecting the main family he still chose it

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Naruto was always destined to become hokage Kakashi never passed any other team until team 7

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that's because they didn't follow kakashi rule of not giving naruto food which made kakashi say
those who break the rules and codes of the ninja world are called trash but those who dont take care of their comrades are lower than trash which he got from obito who wanted to be hokage

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kakashi was minato's student(naruto's dad)who was jiraiya's student,who was hiruzen's student whose the student of tobirama and hashirama-all the hokages
even though naruto was destined to be hokage he stilled had to work hard, he beat neji with the technique he failed at the academy, the bunshin no jutsu which tobirama invented

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after this fight neji stopped his hatred against hinata,becomes a jounin, and instead of wanting to kill her,which goes against his destiny,he dies protecting her
even though neji's dad's destiny was to die for the hyuga clan he still decided it and even though naruto's destiny could be to be hokage he still decided it,just like neji decided to jump in front of hinata

 

[Punk Hazard]

Naruto can change destiny, huh? Can he change himself from not being transmigrant of Asura? Could he change his fate when he fought Sasuke at the end? Neji said destiny can't be changed. And that's what happened. THe destiny being good or bad doesn't matter

Clearly Kishimoto changed his theme in part 2. I don't wish to spam all the scans where neji and naruto chat, or where the toads speak about destiny. We know it's a retcon. Hard work was the main theme of Naruto in part 1, Naruto becoming transmigrant of Asura changed that by quite a bit.

Of course, obsession can cloud people's judgement and make them ignorant...

Actually yes, Naruto's destiny as a transmigrant was dealing with the Indra transmigrant. Naruto was not destined to be Ashura's transmigrant, Ashura liked Naruto's qualities so he attached himself to Naruto. Naruto then had the choice of confronting the Indra transmigrant and becoming part of the legacy/feud. He had the option of ignoring being the Ashura transmigrant and just walking away from Sasuke, but because Sasuke is his friend, he chose instead to embrace what being a transmigrant meant. In the end, it was still up to Naruto's choice, and he made one. No, Naruto couldn't choose whether or not Ashura would latch onto him. But he also couldn't choose whether or not Killer Bee trained him, but Killer Bee did. Does that mean that Killer Bee accepting to Naruto is also a contradiction because Naruto didn't choose whether or not Killer Bee accepted him?

It's not a retcon.

I'm not obsessed with Naruto, I moderately like the series.

 

[Shanks]

he was going to say the outcome of the fight.

also the frog guy didnt mention anything at all about obito madara and the juubi. he skipped them as if it wasnt important even though naruto almost broke during it.

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Gamamaru knew about Indra and Asura . He was bout say he was Sage's Son younger brother and his destiny to fight against Indra.

 

[Punk Hazard]

I'm pretty such Naruto wanted to talk Sasuke out of it more than fighting him.

Yes, Naruto initially wanted to talk things out with Sasuke. But that was long ago. He quickly realized that that wasn't going to work, and resolved to fight Sasuke. Naruto could have chosen to leave Sasuke alone and left it to the transmigrants after them, but he chose to take on the struggle and he chose to fight Sasuke.

 

[Zawerni]

Neji believed people are born the way they are, and nothing can change it. If you were born a gifted genius, you had it made for life. If you were born a talent-less loser, you were screwed and couldn't change that no matter what.

Naruto argued with his "with enough hard work you can be anything you want to be" and even used himself as a comparison by saying "I'm a loser and I still beat you, who is a genius".

Then Part 2 rolls around like, "Check this out guys, Naruto is the Child of Prophecy! And not only that, he's also the reincarnation of Ninja God Sage of Six Path's son Ashura!"

The idea that "hard work can make anything happen" was thrown out the window when Naruto was "The Chosen One" since the day he was born.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Actually yes, Naruto's destiny as a transmigrant was dealing with the Indra transmigrant. Naruto was not destined to be Ashura's transmigrant, Ashura liked Naruto's qualities so he attached himself to Naruto. Naruto then had the choice of confronting the Indra transmigrant and becoming part of the legacy/feud. He had the option of ignoring being the Ashura transmigrant and just walking away from Sasuke, but because Sasuke is his friend, he chose instead to embrace what being a transmigrant meant. In the end, it was still up to Naruto's choice, and he made one. No, Naruto couldn't choose whether or not Ashura would latch onto him. But he also couldn't choose whether or not Killer Bee trained him, but Killer Bee did. Does that mean that Killer Bee accepting to Naruto is also a contradiction because Naruto didn't choose whether or not Killer Bee accepted him?

It's not a retcon.

I'm not obsessed with Naruto, I moderately like the series.

You have read 'Oedipus the king', right? Naruto reminds me a bit of it. At least in Oedipus, effort was made to change destiny. But in Naruto, he became part of the very thing he hated. Neji got the bad part of destiny, Naruto got the good part. RIP hardwork, coz Naruto thought he was a loser. Just when we thought Naruto should be praised for training, we get to learn he was blessed for being transmigrant of Asura. Kudos to the toads for being good soothsayers .

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Neji believed people are born the way they are, and nothing can change it. If you were born a gifted genius, you had it made for life. If you were born a talent-less loser, you were screwed and couldn't change that no matter what.

Naruto argued with his "with enough hard work you can be anything you want to be" and even used himself as a comparison by saying "I'm a loser and I still beat you, who is a genius".

Then Part 2 rolls around like, "Check this out guys, Naruto is the Child of Prophecy! And not only that, he's also the reincarnation of Ninja God Sage of Six Path's son Ashura!"

The idea that "hard work can make anything happen" was thrown out the window when Naruto was "The Chosen One" since the day he was born.

You said the truth man, people will choose to be blind anyway

 

[Avani 👑]

What's shameful is your lack of understanding. Naruto's issue wasn't destiny, but Neji's former notion that you can't change your destiny if isn't favorable. Tell me, what part of Naruto's destiny was unfavorable?

^This.

Even more so - you cannot know your destiny beforehand and not trying to better your situation because you "think" it's your destiny to fail surely will set it to make you a loser.

Obito changed his destiny twice. Madara could change but he couldn't overcome his own personal disappointment and let go. Naruto would have ended up a failure if he didn't do almost everything to make the change possible.

People should only trust their own Karma and hard work for what they want to achieve. Whether one succeeds or not in reaching their is another matter but road might not be that bad at all. Neji did end up protecting Hinata and Naruto but Whether he had the seal or not didn't matter at that time at all. It was during a rush of the battle and it was hardly different than Sasuke moving to shield Naruto during their fight with Haku. Sasuke had no such seal did he?

Only shameful thing is taking things too literally and keeping your mind closed to see the full picture beyond random panels.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Neji believed people are born the way they are, and nothing can change it. If you were born a gifted genius, you had it made for life. If you were born a talent-less loser, you were screwed and couldn't change that no matter what.

Naruto argued with his "with enough hard work you can be anything you want to be" and even used himself as a comparison by saying "I'm a loser and I still beat you, who is a genius".

Then Part 2 rolls around like, "Check this out guys, Naruto is the Child of Prophecy! And not only that, he's also the reincarnation of Ninja God Sage of Six Path's son Ashura!"

The idea that "hard work can make anything happen" was thrown out the window when Naruto was "The Chosen One" since the day he was born.

Nope. Ashura existed after his death as a mass of chakra residing in the impure world. Once he found someone with traits that matched his own, he attaches his entity to them. Ashura chose to attach to Naruto because Naruto worked hard like him. If Naruto didn't work hard, Ashura wouldn't have attached himself to Naruto, and he wouldn't have gotten the boost. Naruto became the ¨Chosen One¨ because of his hard work, both as a person and as a ninja.

You have read 'Oedipus the king', right? Naruto reminds me a bit of it. At least in Oedipus, effort was made to change destiny. But in Naruto, he became part of the very thing he hated. Neji got the bad part of destiny, Naruto got the good part. RIP hardwork, coz Naruto thought he was a loser. Just when we thought Naruto should be praised for training, we get to learn he was blessed for being transmigrant of Asura. Kudos to the toads for being good soothsayers .

Naruto hated the philosophy that one cannot change their destiny, even if they wanted to. Once again, I ask you, when did Naruto want to change his destiny of being the child of prophecy and becoming Ashura's transmigrant? When did Naruto say ¨I don't want to be the Child of Prophecy" or ¨I don't want Ashura's chakra in me¨? Until you can provide scans of these, what you are saying is invalid. You call the other side of the discussion blind, when you are the blind one.

 

[Avani 👑]

What was Obito's destiny stated to be?

In your case you were reading the wrong one to begin with. If you cannot understand it first time around and have no patience to read it a second time either you should just pick something else. Preferably shorter and with more words to suit you better.

Of course if you think you can make a career out of sporking Naruto then none can convince you otherwise.

 

[MAN OF SIN]

Yes, Naruto initially wanted to talk things out with Sasuke. But that was long ago. He quickly realized that that wasn't going to work, and resolved to fight Sasuke. Naruto could have chosen to leave Sasuke alone and left it to the transmigrants after them, but he chose to take on the struggle and he chose to fight Sasuke.

So he didn't fought Sasuke because he wanted to, but because he had to. Okay.

 

[Zawerni]

Nope. Ashura existed after his death as a mass of chakra residing in the impure world. Once he found someone with traits that matched his own, he attaches his entity to them. Ashura chose to attach to Naruto because Naruto worked hard like him. If Naruto didn't work hard, Ashura wouldn't have attached himself to Naruto, and he wouldn't have gotten the boost. Naruto became the ¨Chosen One¨ because of his hard work, both as a person and as a ninja.

Ashura reincarnated into Naruto.

Naruto was already the "Chosen One" before he was even born. Or have you forgotten Gamamaru foretold the arrival of a "blue-eyed boy", which ended up being Naruto, looong before Naruto was even born.

Hard work had nothing to do with it. Naruto was born special. Neji was right.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Nope. Ashura existed after his death as a mass of chakra residing in the impure world. Once he found someone with traits that matched his own, he attaches his entity to them. Ashura chose to attach to Naruto because Naruto worked hard like him. If Naruto didn't work hard, Ashura wouldn't have attached himself to Naruto, and he wouldn't have gotten the boost. Naruto became the ¨Chosen One¨ because of his hard work, both as a person and as a ninja.


Naruto hated the philosophy that one cannot change their destiny, even if they wanted to. Once again, I ask you, when did Naruto want to change his destiny of being the child of prophecy and becoming Ashura's transmigrant? When did Naruto say ¨I don't want to be the Child of Prophecy" or ¨I don't want Ashura's chakra in me¨? Until you can provide scans of these, what you are saying is invalid. You call the other side of the discussion blind, when you are the blind one.

Why would Naruto deny free power up, when he was told he is special? A weakling would always appreciate free power ups, right?

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Lol

 

[Punk Hazard]

So he didn't fought Sasuke because he wanted to, but because he had to.

He had to fight Sasuke to save him. He chose to save Sasuke. Same way if I can choose to ingest a sandwich, but there is only way I can do so: Putting in my body. Or the same way I can chose to sleep, but can only do so sitting down or laying down with my eyes closed. The same way I can chose to watch a movie, but I have to see it with my eyes.

 

[Avani 👑]

Ashura reincarnated into Naruto.

Naruto was already the "Chosen One" before he was even born. Or have you forgotten Gamamaru foretold the arrival of a "blue-eyed boy", which ended up being Naruto, looong before Naruto was even born.

Hard work had nothing to do with it. Naruto was born special. Neji was right.

Transmigration, reincarnation and rebirth are not the same but three different states and concepts.

Naruto was not Asura reborn.

 

[Kakooli]

I remember a Kishi interview where he said he thinks of new ideas for the manga in the bathtub. I'd wager that everything up until the Pain arc was planned in advance and the rest of the manga was bathtub material.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Ashura reincarnated into Naruto.

Naruto was already the "Chosen One" before he was even born. Or have you forgotten Gamamaru foretold the arrival of a "blue-eyed boy", which ended up being Naruto, looong before Naruto was even born.

Hard work had nothing to do with it. Naruto was born special. Neji was right.

Why would Naruto deny free power up, when he was told he is special? A weakling would always appreciate free power ups, right?

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Lol

I still want to see a panel where Naruto said that destiny, as a whole, is a load of crap. You said it yourself person with Sarada avatar, Neji believed that people who born losers will always be losers. Naruto was born a loser. But he worked hard, and was able to change into someone powerful, which means what Naruto said was right and Neji was wrong, because, according to Neji, Naruto should have been a weakling his entire life. It was Naruto's destiny to work hard and be deemed worthy by Ashura. Where is the contradiction to part one? If Naruto didn't work hard, he wouldn't have been Ashura's transmigrant. Therefore, the value of hard work that was established in the part one still exists. Hagoromo said it himself, because Ashura worked hard with others, he was able to achieve strength. The value of hard work was still present in part 2. Yet again, no contradiction.

Like I have said countless times in this thread, where are the scans showing Naruto saying he doesn't want to be Ashura's transmigrant? Where is the scan that explicitly shows Naruto doesn't want to be the child of prophecy? Where are the scans of Naruto saying the entire concept of destiny is bullshit outside of the context of changing it if you want to? If Naruto's philosophy is that destiny is fine, and if you don't like yours you can change, but he didn't dislike his so he didn't, then where is the contradiction?

 

[Joseph Gomes]

I remember a Kishi interview where he said he thinks of new ideas for the manga in the bathtub. I'd wager that everything up until the Pain arc was planned in advance and the rest of the manga was bathtub material.

Lol, beware you might get banned for this