[VS] Killer Bee vs EMS Sasuke

[InfamousB]

That is spot on. An arrow isn't going to travel faster than the time it takes for that same arrow to be simply fired. B charges and fires Bijuu Dama at speeds equal to the prep and firing of Susanoo Arrow. He either fires after and plows through the arrow, or he simply tanks the arrow and blows Sasuke to bits.




No reason why he can't, all that means is that




I already posted a scan of him entering Bijuu Mode with a Bijuu Dama practically charged up, so by the time the tentacle bursts, his Bijuu Dama will be ready, then he fires it. I already posted scans that prove he can charge up and fire Bijuu Dama as fast as Susanoo arrows can be fired. So he fires the Bijuu Dama at the arrow coming his way and then the Dama plows through the arrow and blows Sasuke up.

Or he takes the arrow, fires Bijuu Dama and still blows Sasuke up.




Then B blocks LoS with his tentacles, just how he did when he first fought Sasuke, and then fires the Bijuu Dama. B is in pain until he switches out with a clone and Sasuke winds up dead.

If B gets hit directly, and somehow Bijuu Dama fails, despite already being charged up (Which it won't anyway), B cuts his tentacle like you say he will, then he bursts out again and blows Sasuke up since Sasuke needs to have his chakra or his physical body making contact with Enton in order to use Kagutsuchi on it. He can't use Amaterasu on B, and then change its shape. Every single time without exception, Kagutsuchi has been used when Sasuke has contact via his chakra or his body.

-Against Ay, he had contact with Susanoo.

-All his Susanoo Kagutsuchi have contact with Susanoo.

-When he used it without Susanoo, he used it with his hand.

-When he used it against Kaguya, he used Amaterasu on his hand first, then he used Kagutsuchi.

No matter how you slice it, Sasuke can't stop Bijuu Dama from happening.

lol, I have to ask you something sir "KidGamer65" since it seems that every time I read one of your debates that has to do with Sasuke vs anybody so to say. It seems you almost have some miracle argument on how they other party beats sasuke, yet, everyone else seems to disagree.

I have a question to ask you about the whole "Naruto chakra allowed sasuke to produce a more durable, faster, stronger, susanoo with legs" Which sounds absolutely ****ing ridiculous if you ask me lol and you have to be ludicrous if you believe some bullshit like that. Yes, I do agree that naruto cloak enchanced sasuke's fighting capabilities, but it is not the reason, i repeat, "Not the reason" sasuke was able to produce a legged susanoo.

Are you going to honestly sit up here and argue "despite the fact" that sasuke produced a susanoo large enough to completely cover naruto bijuu avatar "that demonstrated PS Feats" some might even say it was PS wrapped around naruto BM avatar. Even though he just got slapped around by juubito, could barely stand, his chakra cloak from naruto had vanished, yet he still produced a susanoo of that magnitude? clearly greater than the one he demonstrated among-st receiving naruto's chakra cloak?

Now who's sounding ridiculous? That makes absolutely 0 sense. So a beaten, worn down sasuke, who probably exhausted majority of his chakra reserved produced a larger susanoo then he was capable of with the enhancements from naruto's chakra cloak? Lol, stop it.


Anyways, I enjoy all of your debates against sasuke when it comes to him fighting Perfect Jins.. "TBB GG" , "TBB he's killed" , "TBB he vanishes" "TBB" "TBB" lol, so ****ing redundant. One skill > Sasuke entire arsenal lol? yeah right.

Anyways killer bee goes, but he's not beating EMS sasuke. Amaterasu one shots bee, period. He has neither the means to dodge it, and once he gets hit by it he gets sent into agony, and pain, unable to do anything just like before lol. You actually make it seem like the fight is going to be 1 2 3 GO!! and Bee shoots off a TBB at the same time as sasuke can shoot off Amaterasu lol? wrong, Amaterasu hits, bee burns to death from excruciating pain. Or he gets hit by Amaterasu and fires off a TBB randomly, and it goes somewhere else, but doubt it, he's going to end up like he did before.

As for sasuke worse case scenario he instant snipes bee with Amaterasu, he somehow survives "magically" gets a tbb off, sasuke counters with an arrow at an angle that at least can at-least alter its course, then he gets sniped again with Amaterasu GG.

 

[Kamui Sama]

What portrayal puts B below EMS Sasuke w/o Perfect Susanoo?

The whole Sasuke will be the one to surpass Madara and him fighting in tandem with Naruto the entire war. There is also the fact that Bee called taka Sasuke the strongest guy he ever fought. Then again Bee did essentially kill Sauce twice in that fight hmm

 

[KidGamer65]

True, forgot about that, but still, we saw in how much pain he was, so if he takes even a second to cut his tail, Sasuke uses the spikes and kills him, even if he cuts his tail, it would be quite useless as Bee would still have Amaterasu on his tails allowing Sasuke to use Amaterasu to get him with even more ease, especially if he used them to block Amaterasu as you stated, and if he used BM and bursted out of the tentacle, he would be already on fire.

1. Sasuke can't do what you are claiming he can do.

2. Why would he on fire? The tentacle gets blown apart as he enters Bijuu Mode. He doesn't make contact with the outside layer of the tentacle, which is on fire, so there is no reason he'd be on fire. Even if he is, the amount of flame would be so minuscule that it'd be irrelevant.

Shii/C/Shee/Cee or whatever you call him, outright stated that he controls it with his right eye, having contact with him has nothing to do with it.

Him needing contact doesn't invalidate C's statement.

What ? Kagutsuchi is the ability to control Amaterasu, or rather, giving other shapes to it. It isn't a whole new technique, the only difference is that he controls it with his other eye.

Uh, lol. Yes, it is. Kagutsuchi is the ability to manipulate Amaterasu, its a completely separate jutsu, they don't come together. Itachi had Amaterasu, but didn't have Kagutsuchi. Kagutsuchi is Sasuke's Right Eye Ability, thus its a whole new Jutsu.

He can "control" Amaterasu by making it follow his targets, Kagutsuchi follows a similar concept, the only differences are that he controls it with his other eye and that it gives Amaterasu other shapes (such as spikes, swords, etc.), there's absolutely no reason he would need contact with it if he controls it with his eyes, nor does it make sense.

@bold: That isn't "control" of Amaterasu, at least not Kagutsuchi style control. That is just him spawning Amaterasu on the spots his eye sight follows. Kagutsuchi does not follow a similar concept. Kagutsuchi lets him change the shape of the flame, and lets him create flame, from his Susanoo or his body.

@bold2: Sasuke's usage of the jutsu disagrees with you, not to mention there is no contradiction between the ability stemming from his eye, and him needing to have some sort of contact with the flame to manipulate it for you to say "it makes no sense". Especially when you can't even give me a scan of him not needing contact, especially when every scan shows him needing contact.

Since you are merely posting stuff you've already posted, I'm going to take that as you not being able to provide a scan of Sasuke using Kagutsuchi without making contact. You keep saying "he doesn't need contact because he controls it using his eye" even though him controlling it with his eye doesn't mean that wouldn't need contact, it means that the ability stems from his eye.

The fact Sasuke has never done anything you claim he can do, even when it'd be helpful combined with the fact that every single time he's used it, he's had contact of some sort, tells me that he needs contact, and that anything else is a fanfictional assumption.

 

[KidGamer65]

The whole Sasuke will be the one to surpass Madara and him fighting in tandem with Naruto the entire war. There is also the fact that Bee called taka Sasuke the strongest guy he ever fought. Then again Bee did essentially kill Sauce twice in that fight hmm

They said he has the potential to surpass Madara, that doesn't mean he's on Madara's level nor does it mean he's on par with Madara. Not to mention the whole time Sasuke was fighting "on par" with Naruto, Naruto was only using his Avatar for physical attacks, and Sasuke had his Susanoo buffed by Naruto's chakra.

If anything, I'd say that pre PS, EMS Sasuke is portrayed to be on KCM Naruto's level, who is portrayed to be below B until he gets Bijuu Mode.

 

[KidGamer65]

lol, I have to ask you something sir "KidGamer65" since it seems that every time I read one of your debates that has to do with Sasuke vs anybody so to say. It seems you almost have some miracle argument on how they other party beats sasuke, yet, everyone else seems to disagree.

1. There are people in this thread who think that B beats Sasuke.

The rest is irrelevant to me.

I have a question to ask you about the whole "Naruto chakra allowed sasuke to produce a more durable, faster, stronger, susanoo with legs" Which sounds absolutely ****ing ridiculous if you ask me lol and you have to be ludicrous if you believe some bullshit like that. Yes, I do agree that naruto cloak enchanced sasuke's fighting capabilities, but it is not the reason, i repeat, "Not the reason" sasuke was able to produce a legged susanoo.

Its funny, you are complaining about how its ridiculous, even though I see nothing but complaints and no argument to back up your claims. Did I say that Sasuke can't produce Legged Susanoo? No, I suggest you READ before replying. Sasuke's Susanoo is shown to be much smaller w/o the cloak, and it was shown to be much weaker as it Danzo's Fuuton blew it open, yet this one protected him from Juubito's Drop Slam. Sasuke's Susanoo have always been below Madara's, yet this one is much larger than Madara's, and much stronger. Naruto's chakra is stated to vastly increase the power of jutsu. Why don't you do the math? KCC Senjutsu Enhanced Legged Susanoo>>>Sasuke's Legged Susanoo on its own.

Are you going to honestly sit up here and argue "despite the fact" that sasuke produced a susanoo large enough to completely cover naruto bijuu avatar "that demonstrated PS Feats" some might even say it was PS wrapped around naruto BM avatar. Even though he just got slapped around by juubito, could barely stand, his chakra cloak from naruto had vanished, yet he still produced a susanoo of that magnitude? clearly greater than the one he demonstrated among-st receiving naruto's chakra cloak?

That was Perfect Susanoo. We are talking about Legged Susanoo. Sasuke making a Perfect Susanoo large enough to cover the BM Avatar doesn't mean that he can use V3 Susanoo the size of, or equal to what it was when it was enhanced by Naruto's chakra. If I decided to use this shitty ass logic, I'd be saying that Sasuke can use a Ribcage the size of Perfect Susanoo. Lmao, get this shit out of here.

Now who's sounding ridiculous? That makes absolutely 0 sense. So a beaten, worn down sasuke, who probably exhausted majority of his chakra reserved produced a larger susanoo then he was capable of with the enhancements from naruto's chakra cloak? Lol, stop it.

Perfect Susanoo=/=V3 Susanoo.

Anyways, I enjoy all of your debates against sasuke when it comes to him fighting Perfect Jins.. "TBB GG" , "TBB he's killed" , "TBB he vanishes" "TBB" "TBB" lol, so ****ing redundant. One skill > Sasuke entire arsenal lol? yeah right.

More complaining huh?

Anyways killer bee goes, but he's not beating EMS sasuke. Amaterasu one shots bee, period.

Like it did in canon? Oh wait...Lol, it didn't. You people need to stop with this Amatertasu wank.

He has neither the means to dodge it, and once he gets hit by it he gets sent into agony, and pain, unable to do anything just like before lol.

No need to do anything=/=Unable to do anything.

You actually make it seem like the fight is going to be 1 2 3 GO!! and Bee shoots off a TBB at the same time as sasuke can shoot off Amaterasu lol? wrong, Amaterasu hits, bee burns to death from excruciating pain. Or he gets hit by Amaterasu and fires off a TBB randomly, and it goes somewhere else, but doubt it, he's going to end up like he did before.

Actually, Bijuu Dama is used as a response to Sasuke's Amaterasu, not the other way around. But I've already explained this, instead of pulling your usual antics and *****ing about my arguments, why don't you go counter my posts instead of repeating the same shit I've already countered?

As for sasuke worse case scenario he instant snipes bee with Amaterasu, he somehow survives "magically" gets a tbb off, sasuke counters with an arrow at an angle that at least can at-least alter its course, then he gets sniped again with Amaterasu GG.

Oh look, its the same thing 4 other people have said, that I've already countered.

 

[InfamousB]

1. There are people in this thread who think that B beats Sasuke.

The rest is irrelevant to me.




Its funny, you are complaining about how its ridiculous, even though I see nothing but complaints and no argument to back up your claims. Did I say that Sasuke can't produce Legged Susanoo? No, I suggest you READ before replying. Sasuke's Susanoo is shown to be much smaller w/o the cloak, and it was shown to be much weaker as it Danzo's Fuuton blew it open, yet this one protected him from Juubito's Drop Slam. Sasuke's Susanoo have always been below Madara's, yet this one is much larger than Madara's, and much stronger. Naruto's chakra is stated to vastly increase the power of jutsu. Why don't you do the math? KCC Senjutsu Enhanced Legged Susanoo>>>Sasuke's Legged Susanoo on its own.



That was Perfect Susanoo. We are talking about Legged Susanoo. Sasuke making a Perfect Susanoo large enough to cover the BM Avatar doesn't mean that he can use V3 Susanoo the size of, or equal to what it was when it was enhanced by Naruto's chakra. If I decided to use this shitty ass logic, I'd be saying that Sasuke can use a Ribcage the size of Perfect Susanoo. Lmao, get this shit out of here.


Perfect Susanoo=/=V3 Susanoo.


More complaining huh?



Like it did in canon? Oh wait...Lol, it didn't. You people need to stop with this Amatertasu wank.


No need to do anything=/=Unable to do anything.


Actually, Bijuu Dama is used as a response to Sasuke's Amaterasu, not the other way around. But I've already explained this, instead of pulling your usual antics and *****ing about my arguments, why don't you go counter my posts instead of repeating the same shit I've already countered?




Oh look, its the same thing 4 other people have said, that I've already countered.

You completely, obliviously, ignored what the **** I just said. Got damn boy, did you not state in an earlier post that "Sasuke is not capable of producing a legged susanoo with out naruto's KCC?" You just stated that earlier, therefore, you are trying to say that "With out the help from naruto's KCC, he wouldn't of been able to produce a legged susanoo" And I'm calling you out for your bullshit, when you just admitted that sasuke was capable of producing a PS "Without" the help from naruto KCC.

So back to my point, you sound ignorant as ****, when you say; Sasuke cannot produce a legged susanoo w/o the help from naruto KCC, but he was capable of producing a perfect susanoo with out it. You sound contradicting as hell.

 

[KidGamer65]

You completely, obliviously, ignored what the **** I just said. Got damn boy, did you not state in an earlier post that "Sasuke is not capable of producing a legged susanoo with out naruto's KCC?" You just stated that earlier, therefore, you are trying to say that "With out the help from naruto's KCC, he wouldn't of been able to produce a legged susanoo" And I'm calling you out for your bullshit, when you just admitted that sasuke was capable of producing a PS "Without" the help from naruto KCC.

So back to my point, you sound ignorant as ****, when you say; Sasuke cannot produce a legged susanoo w/o the help from naruto KCC, but he was capable of producing a perfect susanoo with out it. You sound contradicting as hell.

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Oh boy. :|

No, I didn't say that, that's the thing. Its funny you are talking about ignoring and being ignorant, when you have no idea what the hell you are talking about. I said, that the Susanoo that was referenced was one powered up by Naruto's chakra, and that Sasuke can't use a Susanoo that strong on his own.

-Did I say that Sasuke can't use a Legged Susano on his own?

No.

-Did I say that his Legged Susanoo won't be as strong without Naruto's chakra?

Yes.

L2Read. It'd save all of us a lot of trouble in the long run.

 

[InfamousB]

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Oh boy. :|

No, I didn't say that, that's the thing. Its funny you are talking about ignoring and being ignorant, when you have no idea what the hell you are talking about. I said, that the Susanoo that was referenced was one powered up by Naruto's chakra, and that Sasuke can't use a Susanoo that strong on his own.

-Did I say that Sasuke can't use a Legged Susano on his own?

No.

-Did I say that his Legged Susanoo won't be as strong without Naruto's chakra?

Yes.

L2Read. It'd save all of us a lot of trouble in the long run.

Okay, I misinterpreted what you meant when you stated;

"You mentioned his feat of jumping from the ground to the tree. Which is the Susanoo he used after getting Naruto's chakra.

Like I said, he'd have to reach it first. B can enter Bijuu Mode instantly, Sasuke can't cross that distance instantly, so he's not going to reach the tentacle and cut it up before B can enter his Bijuu Mode. Knowing doesn't change the fact he'd have to get there and attack."

To me, your wording sounded as if you where trying to imply that the only reason sasuke was able to enter a legged susanoo form was because of naruto's chakra.

 

[RustledJimmies]

Ah, fack it, I'll reply to this one today and then only tomorrow.

2. Why would he on fire? The tentacle gets blown apart as he enters Bijuu Mode. He doesn't make contact with the outside layer of the tentacle, which is on fire, so there is no reason he'd be on fire. Even if he is, the amount of flame would be so minuscule that it'd be irrelevant.

Well, if he bursts the tentacle that would be covered on fire, he would on fire as soon as he touched it, even if it's minuscule, fire spreads, and even the smallest amount of it burns, pretty badly.

Him needing contact doesn't invalidate C's statement.

It kinda does, as Kishi (through C) explictly stated that he controls it with his right eye, never in the manga was it stated that he needs contact with the flames in order to use Kagutsuchi. Use some common sense, do you actually think after 200+ chapters of Sasuke having Kagutsuchi, this weakness would never be exploited or at the very least mentioned ?

Uh, lol. Yes, it is. Kagutsuchi is the ability to manipulate Amaterasu, its a completely separate jutsu, they don't come together. Itachi had Amaterasu, but didn't have Kagutsuchi. Kagutsuchi is Sasuke's Right Eye Ability, thus its a whole new Jutsu.

Exactly, it's the ability to control Amaterasu, but it isn't a whole new technique, he simply uses it to control Amaterasu, in other words it's just an enhancement to a technique. Simply because Itachi has no such ability, that doesn't make it a whole new technique, Itachi could manipulate S/T inside his Genjutsu, while Sasuke can't, in a similar way, Sasuke can control Amaterasu while Itachi can't, actually, if I'm not mistaken, Kagutsuchi's english name was flame control, using it with different eyes doesn't make it a whole new Jutsu.

@bold: That isn't "control" of Amaterasu, at least not Kagutsuchi style control. That is just him spawning Amaterasu on the spots his eye sight follows. Kagutsuchi does not follow a similar concept. Kagutsuchi lets him change the shape of the flame, and lets him create flame, from his Susanoo or his body.

I didn't imply that it was the same control though, which is why the word "control" was in quotes. If he can make the flame move, and he can focus more into the target so it burns faster, and he can extinguish the flames, all without coming in contact with the flames, then why would it be any different with Kagutsuchi, which is pretty much the control of Amaterasu ? Because he never did it and because he uses it in the other eyes aren't excuses. Also no, Kagutsuchi doesn't produce any flames, Amaterasu does, and then Sasuke uses Kagutsuchi on the Amaterasu that was already spawned.

@bold2: Sasuke's usage of the jutsu disagrees with you, not to mention there is no contradiction between the ability stemming from his eye, and him needing to have some sort of contact with the flame to manipulate it for you to say "it makes no sense". Especially when you can't even give me a scan of him not needing contact, especially when every scan shows him needing contact.

Already addressed.

Since you are merely posting stuff you've already posted, I'm going to take that as you not being able to provide a scan of Sasuke using Kagutsuchi without making contact. You keep saying "he doesn't need contact because he controls it using his eye" even though him controlling it with his eye doesn't mean that wouldn't need contact, it means that the ability stems from his eye.

The fact Sasuke has never done anything you claim he can do, even when it'd be helpful combined with the fact that every single time he's used it, he's had contact of some sort, tells me that he needs contact, and that anything else is a fanfictional assumption.

Whatever floats your boat.

Edit : Now I'm serious, I'll reply to any future posts tomorrow.

 

[KidGamer65]

Okay, I misinterpreted what you meant when you stated;

"You mentioned his feat of jumping from the ground to the tree. Which is the Susanoo he used after getting Naruto's chakra.

Like I said, he'd have to reach it first. B can enter Bijuu Mode instantly, Sasuke can't cross that distance instantly, so he's not going to reach the tentacle and cut it up before B can enter his Bijuu Mode. Knowing doesn't change the fact he'd have to get there and attack."

To me, your wording sounded as if you where trying to imply that the only reason sasuke was able to enter a legged susanoo form was because of naruto's chakra.

I dunno how you got that from the bolded, but meh, as long as that's cleared up.

 

[KidGamer65]

A
Well, if he bursts the tentacle that would be covered on fire, he would on fire as soon as he touched it, even if it's minuscule, fire spreads, and even the smallest amount of it burns, pretty badly.

Why would he be on fire? It'd be just how it was when Naruto summoned Bunta. The Sand bursts open and flies everywhere, same thing happens with the tentacle.

And no, Ay got a small amount of flame on his hand and it remained the same, small amount of flame.

It kinda does, as Kishi (through C) explictly stated that he controls it with his right eye, never in the manga was it stated that he needs contact with the flames in order to use Kagutsuchi. Use some common sense, do you actually think after 200+ chapters of Sasuke having Kagutsuchi, this weakness would never be exploited or at the very least mentioned ?

How about you use some common sense? Do you think that after 200+ chapters of Sasuke using it with contact only, that he'd suddenly be able to do it without? Even in situations where it'd benefit him? Its not a weakness of the jutsu, nor is it a drawback. You only view it as such because you think Sasuke can do stuff with it that was never shown or hinted at, instead the complete opposite was shown.

Kishi stating that he controls it with his eye doesn't mean that he doesn't need contact. Him needing contact doesn't change the fact that he's controlling it with his eye.

Exactly, it's the ability to control Amaterasu, but it isn't a whole new technique, he simply uses it to control Amaterasu, in other words it's just an enhancement to a technique. Simply because Itachi has no such ability, that doesn't make it a whole new technique, Itachi could manipulate S/T inside his Genjutsu, while Sasuke can't, in a similar way, Sasuke can control Amaterasu while Itachi can't, actually, if I'm not mistaken, Kagutsuchi's english name was flame control, using it with different eyes doesn't make it a whole new Jutsu.

Lol, yes, it does make it a whole new technique. The fact its in a separate eye and the fact Itachi has Amaterasu but lacks this technique means that its a separate jutsu. Its not an enhancement to a technique. Kagutsuchi lets him control Enton (which is the actual name of the flame) while Amaterasu lets him spawn it where his eyesight is at. In reality, the only reason Amaterasu and Enton are related is because they use the same Enton Flame.

That comparison doesn't work since Itachi can only control Space and Time inside his Tsukuyomi, a jutsu Sasuke didn't have, and because he did it with the same eye. Sasuke uses different eyes, thus separate techniques.

Uh, yes, it does make it a different, new jutsu.

I didn't imply that it was the same control though, which is why the word "control" was in quotes. If he can make the flame move

He only makes it move because of how Amaterasu works, so that isn't control in any way, shape or form nor does it help your argument.

and he can focus more into the target so it burns faster,

It all burns the same. The only thing that changes the rate of burning is the amount.

and he can extinguish the flames,

Something Itachi can do, without having Kagutsuchi. So this isn't a point for you either.

all without coming in contact with the flames, then why would it be any different with Kagutsuchi, which is pretty much the control of Amaterasu ?

Sasuke being able to spawn Amaterasu doesn't mean that he can use Kagutsuchi without contact when Kagutsuchi is not Amaterasu. You are trying to differentiate the following:

If he can make the flame move

With the actual workings of the jutsu itself, even though they are the same exact thing. Not how it works.

Because he never did it and because he uses it in the other eyes aren't excuses. Also no, Kagutsuchi doesn't produce any flames, Amaterasu does, and then Sasuke uses Kagutsuchi on the Amaterasu that was already spawned.

Him never doing it, despite it benefiting him, is proof that he can't do it. That simple. You are telling me he'll do something he's never done before, based on pretty much nothing but invalid evidence. Sasuke has shown one single way that he uses Enton Kagutsuchi, and its not how you think he can use it. I'll go with the manga over your interpretations any day of the week.


When you can show me Sasuke manipulating flames he didn't have some kind of contact with, then you'll have a point, cause all this other stuff is just you reaching.

Nope. Kagutsuchi creates flames.

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It just creates them differently from Amaterasu, which spawns them on the user's focal point.

 

[lanakui8]

Yes because turning into a bijuu then shooting a bijuu dama is anywhere near the speed of amaterasu witch basically spawns on the opponent be is one shotted easily.

Amaterasu, especially its initial takes some time to charge. Plus, Sasuke is going to use amaterasu in response to beeʻs bijuu mode, so the time it takes to get into that mode is irrelevant.

Bee didnt react to shit his tentacle were already infront of his face amaterasu followed by enton spikes slice him all up GG killerbee and gyuki

His tentacle and arm were absolutely not in front of his face before amaterasu hit him, we are blatantly shown that. Based on what can sasuke use enton spikes at such a long range, and based on what will sasuke not get ended by a bijuudama while heʻs trying to do all of this?

Perfect susanoo can catch and throw a bijuu dama dont see why not when its hands are bigger than Mokujins who managed to do that. Amaterasu is like a genjutsu its a visual attack he used genjutsu while in susanoo he can use amaterasu. Its not a Rinnegan Sasuke feat he clearly used his ems furthermore he been had enton his controll got no better with Hagoromos chakra unless you can prove it.

So youʻre asserting that in order to catch and throw a bijuudama back, all you need to do is have bigger hands than the bijuudama? What exactly do you base that assertion on? Mokujin has anti-bijuu properties that PS absolutely does not have, and it has been shown to completely suppress 100% Kurama with the same hands that it catches those bijuudamas with. Nothing suggests PS can catch bijuudamas.

amaterasu is absolutely nothing like a genjutsu. EMS Sasuke does not get the feats of sharinnegna sasuke whoʻs powered by hagoromoʻs chakra, just like base naruto or BSM Naruto doesnʻt get the feats of naruto while heʻs powered by hagoromoʻs chakra.

 

[Unorthodox]

Amaterasu, especially its initial takes some time to charge. Plus, Sasuke is going to use amaterasu in response to beeʻs bijuu mode, so the time it takes to get into that mode is irrelevant.

Amaterasu takes no time to charge

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Amaterasu is much faster than a Bijuu transformation Amaterasu 1 shots still remains.

His tentacle and arm were absolutely not in front of his face before amaterasu hit him, we are blatantly shown that. Based on what can sasuke use enton spikes at such a long range, and based on what will sasuke not get ended by a bijuudama while heʻs trying to do all of this?

If you think something a big as gyuki can react to something as fast as amaterasu with no proper knowledge be by guest im not going to entertain you with such rubbish. Base on that Amaterasu/enton are visual based Attacks why would he even have enton if he can only control it when its connected to him pointless little argument that you got from Kidgamer. You say all of this its as simple as Amaterasu then enton spikes takes like 2 seconds Gyuki wont be able to focus chakra while he's screaming bloody mary.

So youʻre asserting that in order to catch and throw a bijuudama back, all you need to do is have bigger hands than the bijuudama? What exactly do you base that assertion on? Mokujin has anti-bijuu properties that PS absolutely does not have, and it has been shown to completely suppress 100% Kurama with the same hands that it catches those bijuudamas with. Nothing suggests PS can catch bijuudamas.

This made me laugh what a joke. Mokujin or Mokuton being anti bijuu has nothing to do with it being able to throw a bijuu dama back why cant the hotei gates throw a bijuu dama back why cant Mokuton pollen forest throw a bijuu dama back they all are anti bijuu answer is because they dont have hands hands or large enough hands to do so Mokujin simple caught then threw it why can perfect susanoo do the same thing? Again restraining Kurama had nothing to do with throwing a bijuu dama back its not like he can restrain the bijuu dama that claim itself is a joke.

amaterasu is absolutely nothing like a genjutsu. EMS Sasuke does not get the feats of sharinnegna sasuke whoʻs powered by hagoromoʻs chakra, just like base naruto or BSM Naruto doesnʻt get the feats of naruto while heʻs powered by hagoromoʻs chakra.

Get what feat All of Naruto's feats are obviously Hagoromo boost since they're done physically or him having more fire power. Hagoromo's chakra doesnt give you better mastery over something fact Sasuke would have had full mastery over his Rinnegan yet he didnt thats proof enough that he could do that with ems hell he even made enton spikes with Ms against the Raikage you claiming that thats just a rinnegan Sasuke feats just because he's the one to do it is beyond flawed.

 

[lanakui8]

Amaterasu takes no time to charge

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Amaterasu is much faster than a Bijuu transformation Amaterasu 1 shots still remains.

Sure it does, kidomaruʻs webs landed by the time sasuke and itachi fired their amaterasu on it, and thatʻs not the initial charge of amaterasu as both had fired one previously. We donʻt know when sasuke began charging his amaterasu when he used it against juubito. However, we do know how long it took itachi to fire his amaterasu at kcm naruto and how long it took sasuke to focus and fire his amaterasu at bee, and it took enough time for bee to get a bijuudama off and/or react.

If you think something a big as gyuki can react to something as fast as amaterasu with no proper knowledge be by guest im not going to entertain you with such rubbish. Base on that Amaterasu/enton are visual based Attacks why would he even have enton if he can only control it when its connected to him pointless little argument that you got from Kidgamer. You say all of this its as simple as Amaterasu then enton spikes takes like 2 seconds Gyuki wont be able to focus chakra while he's screaming bloody mary.

What does the gyuukiʻs size have to do with its ability to react to something? Size is only a downside when dodging, since youʻre a big target, nothing about reacting and blocking an attack. And Iʻm guessing you concede this argument since, once again, the manga literally showed bee put up

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that was clearly

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When did I assert that sasuke can only control enton when itʻs connected to him? Obviously controlling enton at a distance would require more skill or power than controlling something thatʻs right next to you, especially when he controls them with a doujutsu. Sasukeʻs never controlled enton at a distance like what you are claiming, he doesnʻt get those feats, nor does he get his enton feats when heʻs powered by rikudou senjutsu chakra.

This made me laugh what a joke. Mokujin or Mokuton being anti bijuu has nothing to do with it being able to throw a bijuu dama back why cant the hotei gates throw a bijuu dama back why cant Mokuton pollen forest throw a bijuu dama back they all are anti bijuu answer is because they dont have hands hands or large enough hands to do so Mokujin simple caught then threw it why can perfect susanoo do the same thing? Again restraining Kurama had nothing to do with throwing a bijuu dama back its not like he can restrain the bijuu dama that claim itself is a joke.

Um.... perfect susanoo canʻt do the same thing because unlike mokujin which has hands and is a mokuton thatʻs on a completely different level than things like flower tree world, and therefore possesses anti-bijuu properties. If PS had the same anti-bijuu properties like mokuton, like if it could suppress 100% Kurama with a pat on the head, or if it could suppress bijuu chakra by merely touching them, then sure, it gets mokujins bijuudama catching feats, but it doesnʻt which is why nothing but mokujin has ever caught a bijuudama despite bijuudamas going up against beings that can catch them on many occasions.

Itʻs the same reason I donʻt give mokujin the ability to slice mountain ranges in half with the swing of a stick, or the kyuubi the ability to do that with the swing of one of its tails.

Get what feat All of Naruto's feats are obviously Hagoromo boost since they're done physically or him having more fire power. Hagoromo's chakra doesnt give you better mastery over something fact Sasuke would have had full mastery over his Rinnegan yet he didnt thats proof enough that he could do that with ems hell he even made enton spikes with Ms against the Raikage you claiming that thats just a rinnegan Sasuke feats just because he's the one to do it is beyond flawed.

If Hagoromoʻs chakra doesnʻt give you better mastery over something, why does Kakashi instantly pull out PS? Why is he instantly able to use things like kamui chidori, intangibility, kamui shurikens, and flight? ʻmasteryʻ over something isnʻt based on pure skill. Naruto needed shadow clones in order to use a rasengan while in base, when he gets kyuubi chakra, he doesnʻt need shadow clones anymore. Has naruto suddenly become more skilled by obtaining the kyuubiʻs chakra?
Sasukeʻs EMS was enhanced by rikudouʻs chakra, in the instance he used the kagutsuchi, he manipulated enton on a completely different scale compared to anything heʻs done before, and the enton he manipulated was right in front of his face. That has nothing to do with EMS Sasuke doing the same thing while far away from the enton heʻs trying to manipulate.

 

[Apêx1]

I don't see what the debate is still going on about though. People really think Amateratsu hasn't improved? Think again;
-Hachibi in front of the first stage Juubi [

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-Gamakichi who is as big as a Bijuu in front of final portrayed Juubi size [

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-All 3 Summons along with larger sized Juubi clones compared to Juubi [

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-Sasuke's Amateratsu compared to Juubi head [

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It's quite easy to understand that Sasuke's Amateratsu ate through Naruto's FRS, hence wasn't amplified by the explosion of the Futon since it negated its spin due to its powerful Ketai Henka and composition. Thus, Sasuke's Amateratsu took the shape of an RS, but wasn't amplified by anything Naruto's FRS actually had [

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] since there was little to no rotational momentum signified by the flames going the opposite way of the actual spin, ergo this is a creation of Sasuke's eye itself. The Amateratsu itself was larger than the Juubi's head, hence it covers Hachibi with the utmost ease. Anyone saying "Hachibi cuts tentacle gg" is ignoring the fact that Sasuke can easily create an Amateratsu this big if he could do it with the Enton surrounding his arrow.

Plausibility: A large Enton arrow was capable of stopping the spin of FRS and remain completely unaffected, this suggests that if FRS, which is composed of Futon and penetrative capabilities can have its torque negated by a massive Enton arrow, TBB which is only superior in terms of chakra potency and sheer force (not torque) can have its spin also negated, to some extent (at the very least, heavily reducing its Kinetic energy).

 

[KidGamer65]

I don't see what the debate is still going on about though. People really think Amateratsu hasn't improved? Think again;
-Hachibi in front of the first stage Juubi [

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-Gamakichi who is as big as a Bijuu in front of final portrayed Juubi size [

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-All 3 Summons along with larger sized Juubi clones compared to Juubi [

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-Sasuke's Amateratsu compared to Juubi head [

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That Enton Arrow was amplified by Naruto's Fuuton.

It's quite easy to understand that Sasuke's Amateratsu ate through Naruto's FRS, hence wasn't amplified by the explosion of the Futon since it negated its spin due to its powerful Ketai Henka and composition. Thus, Sasuke's Amateratsu took the shape of an RS, but wasn't amplified by anything Naruto's FRS actually had [

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] since there was little to no rotational momentum signified by the flames going the opposite way of the actual spin, ergo this is a creation of Sasuke's eye itself. The Amateratsu itself was larger than the Juubi's head, hence it covers Hachibi with the utmost ease. Anyone saying "Hachibi cuts tentacle gg" is ignoring the fact that Sasuke can easily create an Amateratsu this big if he could do it with the Enton surrounding his arrow.

Fire eats through Wind and got bigger and stronger. What it did is exactly how Fuuton vs Katon works. The Fuuton gets eaten up (Thus no more Fuuton) and the Katon grows larger and stronger. Why would you even begin to imply that Sasuke did this by himself when the whole point of Naruto firing the COFRS is to amplify Sasuke's attack?

Plausibility: A large Enton arrow was capable of stopping the spin of FRS and remain completely unaffected,

It stopped FRS because it ate the jutsu up. Fire eats Wind and gets stronger. That is how it works. That is how its worked since Day 1.

this suggests that if FRS, which is composed of Futon and penetrative capabilities can have its torque negated by a massive Enton arrow, TBB which is only superior in terms of chakra potency and sheer force (not torque) can have its spin also negated, to some extent (at the very least, heavily reducing its Kinetic energy).

Uh, I have no idea how you came to this conclusion, but you are clearly reaching. Enton ate the Wind up, thus the jutsu ceased to exist. That has nothing to do with Enton negating Bijuu Dama, which is not possible, and your explanation for it doesn't make sense.

 

[Apêx1]

That Enton Arrow was amplified by Naruto's Fuuton.



Fire eats through Wind and got bigger and stronger. What it did is exactly how Fuuton vs Katon works. The Fuuton gets eaten up (Thus no more Fuuton) and the Katon grows larger and stronger. Why would you even begin to imply that Sasuke did this by himself when the whole point of Naruto firing the COFRS is to amplify Sasuke's attack?



It stopped FRS because it ate the jutsu up. Fire eats Wind and gets stronger. That is how it works. That is how its worked since Day 1.



Uh, I have no idea how you came to this conclusion, but you are clearly reaching. Enton ate the Wind up, thus the jutsu ceased to exist. That has nothing to do with Enton negating Bijuu Dama, which is not possible, and your explanation for it doesn't make sense.

Yes, but not to an extent where it would increase its blast radius, it simply gave it a greater amount of flames, which Sasuke can replicate with a greater amount of chakra exertion.

Yes, I undermined the benefits of a Futon, doesn't imply it was a big part of it since it only granted Sasuke's Enton a greater amount of oxygen, it didn't actually make it expand like a normal RS would.

It would've stopped it without the Enton anyways, since it was shown to interfere with the jutsu's rotation, which is an essential feature of the rasengan holding the Futon in place. But the Enton did in fact eat up the wind, but implying it was a significant factor in the size of the Enton is fallacious, since one can estimate the Enton AOE was half that size given the equivalent chakra ratio. So even then, Sasuke can either exert more chakra for more Amateratsu flames, or simply use half that size which is still far larger than the Hachibi itself given the difference in size.

And alright, just checking.

 

[KidGamer65]

Yes, but not to an extent where it would increase its blast radius, it simply gave it a greater amount of flames, which Sasuke can replicate with a greater amount of chakra exertion.

Wind makes the flame bigger and hotter. If Sasuke could replicate the same exact thing on his own, there'd be no need for Naruto. So the biggest he can use is that Enton Arrow he showed us.

Yes, I undermined the benefits of a Futon, doesn't imply it was a big part of it since it only granted Sasuke's Enton a greater amount of oxygen, it didn't actually make it expand like a normal RS would.

COFRS is already larger than the Enton Arrow, so it did get larger, but not as large as it did vs. Perfect Juubito. Not to mention the flame gets hotter as well.

It would've stopped it without the Enton anyways, since it was shown to interfere with the jutsu's rotation, which is an essential feature of the rasengan holding the Futon in place. But the Enton did in fact eat up the wind, but implying it was a significant factor in the size of the Enton is fallacious, since one can estimate the Enton AOE was half that size given the equivalent chakra ratio. So even then, Sasuke can either exert more chakra for more Amateratsu flames, or simply use half that size which is still far larger than the Hachibi itself given the difference in size.

And alright, just checking.

It only interfered with its rotation because it ate the Wind Shuriken, which spins the Rasengan around, thus keeping it stable, as Rasengan needs continuous rotation to be maintained. Bijuu Dama has no such downfall, so Enton Arrow isn't going to stop it.

Enton Arrow is smaller than COFRS, then it hit COFRS and became Bijuu Sized, which was the size of COFRS. So no, its not fallacious.

What exactly are referring to with the bold?

The biggest Enton he's shown to use is the arrow, no reason for us to believe that he can use anything larger.

 

[Rιver]

How is B managing a TBB when Sasuke has already Amaterasu'd his face and struck him with arrows? Last time he was screaming in pain, for almost an entire chapter.

Not to mention, Sasuke can use Aoda to travel underground, escaping it's AoE. Another arrow finishes it. B isn't winning.

 

[KidGamer65]

How is B managing a TBB when Sasuke has already Amaterasu'd his face and struck him with arrows? Last time he was screaming in pain, for almost an entire chapter.

By cutting off his tentacle instead of wailing around. He had no reason to do anything against Sasuke last time when the goal was to pretend like he was beaten, and then escape.

B blocks Amaterasu with his tentacle or hand, cuts one off, leaves his clone behind, comes out and blows Sasuke to bits.