Eyes of Rikudo Sennin

[Sharpism]

Well I'm developing an idea and I just wanted to know if what everyone thought about Sharingan descending from Byakugan.
HOWEVER, I want people discussing here to read this entry I did first because there is a situation that may have had to occur.

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[Also any plot holes in the entry please let me know where they are, I'd like to fix them. n___n;]

 

[Wamphyri]

once again i dont think so...

in my opinion the sharingan and the byakugan are not of the same origin .. the sharingan follows the line of the sage whereas the byakugan emerged from pumping chakra into ones eys... at least the active byakugan looks like that...


there simply isn't enough time to .. have evolution put those two eyes apart ...

 

[Miyoshi]

once again i dont think so...

in my opinion the sharingan and the byakugan are not of the same origin .. the sharingan follows the line of the sage whereas the byakugan emerged from pumping chakra into ones eys... at least the active byakugan looks like that...


there simply isn't enough time to .. have evolution put those two eyes apart ...

pretty nicely saidU_U it is said that by evulution byakugan came out of the sharingan..At least that's what I think And for the win, byakugan would never be as strong as sharingan

 

[Sharpism]

once again i dont think so...

in my opinion the sharingan and the byakugan are not of the same origin .. the sharingan follows the line of the sage whereas the byakugan emerged from pumping chakra into ones eys... at least the active byakugan looks like that...


there simply isn't enough time to .. have evolution put those two eyes apart ...

Sharingan uses chakra as well..
The Byakugan's vainly face appearance is mainly due to how much stress on the eyes is needed to see miles and also in between the molecules of surfaces to see on the opposite side of things.

Also in the story you'll read that it isn't evolution that changes the eyes its humanly stress on the body, just like why people get stress knots and other influences of stress on the body.

Also where does it say a timeline of how much time has elapsed since the decendents of Rikudo Sennin and the Madara / Hashirama events?

 

[Sharpism]

pretty nicely saidU_U it is said that by evulution byakugan came out of the sharingan..At least that's what I think And for the win, byakugan would never be as strong as sharingan

The byakugan has different purposes then the sharingan does, The sharingan is for vengeance and murder. [That is why the Amaratsu burns for 7 days strait..]

The sharingan and the Byakugan are pretty balanced, though it's only when the Sharingan is stressed into a Mangekyo Sharingan that is becomes stronger, however it comes with a great toll on the eyes.

 

[Kakai]

Well since everything passed down from the So6P the elder brother had the byakugan and eventully his blood was corrputed and thus the sharigan. i think thats how the story went i gotta refer to the manga.

 

[Sharpism]

Well since everything passed down from the So6P the elder brother had the byakugan and eventully his blood was corrputed and thus the sharigan. i think thats how the story went i gotta refer to the manga.

Logically blood wouldn`t mutate an eye though it`d have to be some sort of deformation in that person. Also if you mean by `his blood`the elder him-selves blood then that would mean there wouldn`t be any Byakugan users after that point.
Though I assume you mean`t that it was a corrupt person down the bloodline.

 

[JohnnyGo]

Well then, since the last time skip, where do the Hyuuga fit? They offer a truce to the senju then just disappear from the story? And then become like a "secondary" clan of the hidden leaf? (i say secondary, but i'm not sure if they are, just that little importance is given to the clan, and the uchiha are said to be stronger)

 

[Sharpism]

No they're just a side clan because the main character is a Uchiha.
The Hyuuga would be just like in the normal series. It creates the origins of the Senju, Hyuuga, and Uchiha.
The focus of that story is to split Uchiha and Hyuuga and create a side story for the Senju clan. [Leaving Konoha in jealousy of Hashirama keeping the secrets of the Wood Style to himself. Then later appearing back in the third shinobi world war to almost take over Konoha again.]

Uchiha is "stronger" because the developed Sharingan is used for vengeance and revenge where as the Byakugan is mostly for scouting and protecting people.

 

[JohnnyGo]

[Leaving Konoha in jealousy of Hashirama keeping the secrets of the Wood Style to himself. Then later appearing back in the third shinobi world war to almost take over Konoha again.]

I couldn't understand this part

But even being the main character an uchiha, there would then be some way so that the hyuuga could also get more power, like the uchiha MS, like a secret technique or something? (I just thought of this because someone said that what sasuke read to know the secrets of the MS could be understood in some part by a byakugan, then some by the sharingan, then by a mangekyou, and more by the rinnegan, is this true?)

 

[Sharpism]

The jealous part was regarding the last paragraph.
"A small secret organization in the Senju clan, jealous of Hashirama, disagree'd with the alliance and left Konohagure to seek their own path and revenge on the Uchiha for the death of their families. This group, founded by Nikushimi Senju, fled to the Land of Rocks; Iwagakure, and participated in the Third Great Shinobi World War with the intent to destroy the Uchiha."
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Eyes
This was the main point I wanted to argue. The sharingan itself is pretty compairable to the Byakugan. Both can see chakra. [Basic function.]
A Sharingan with ONE tomoe can see chakra, the Tomoe itself by theory is a stress knot. [Being stressed causes muscles to tense up. To gain a Tomoe you have to be stressed.]
The sharingan is composed of three tomoe each being triggered by more and more stress. [Yet again the more stress the more muscles tense up.]
The Hyuga is all about tranquility and peace. [Thus you see symbols when in Trigrams.] It is the basis of their clan and they'll keep peace even if it means by suppressing their people by a curse seal.

I wouldn't doubt if the higher power you talk of is actually sharingan, though its suppressed by the clan itself in fear of something happening like the Uchiha Clan Massacre. There honestly is a LOT of hate in the Hyuuga clan because of one side thinking they're more deserving of power then the others. But honestly they get their thoughts read, they can get pain induced and even death induced just by the clan seal.

I know there is a scripture that Rikudo Sennin wrote and the Rinnegan could read it ALL the Sharingan could read MOST of it and it didn't say about the Byakugan itself.

The origins of the Sharingan and Rinnegan are obviously from Ten Tails, as he posessed an eye that was composed of a Rinnegan with Tomoe. But that isn't what I'm saying here. The eyes of Rikudo Sennin would be Byakugan and those developed into Sharingan from the same hate Ten Tails had for Rikudo Sennin.

The Byakugans whole purpose is the essence of Rikudo Sennin himself.
The Rinnegan and Sharingan would be a hatred curse from Ten Tails. Like a hidden demon awaiting to destroy the earth. :]

Sharingan users haven't done anything but started wars and tried to kill people throughout Naruto history.

I blabbed on. n____n;

 

[JohnnyGo]

The jealous part was regarding the last paragraph.
"A small secret organization in the Senju clan, jealous of Hashirama, disagree'd with the alliance and left Konohagure to seek their own path and revenge on the Uchiha for the death of their families. This group, founded by Nikushimi Senju, fled to the Land of Rocks; Iwagakure, and participated in the Third Great Shinobi World War with the intent to destroy the Uchiha."

Oh, i see...

_____
Eyes
This was the main point I wanted to argue. The sharingan itself is pretty compairable to the Byakugan. Both can see chakra. [Basic function.]
A Sharingan with ONE tomoe can see chakra, the Tomoe itself by theory is a stress knot. [Being stressed causes muscles to tense up. To gain a Tomoe you have to be stressed.]

So then Byakugan is compared with the one tomoe sharingan? That would explain why the sharingan is stated as being stronger.

The sharingan is composed of three tomoe each being triggered by more and more stress. [Yet again the more stress the more muscles tense up.]
The Hyuga is all about tranquility and peace. [Thus you see symbols when in Trigrams.] It is the basis of their clan and they'll keep peace even if it means by suppressing their people by a curse seal.

Ok, then they use the seal to prevent the appearance of a new Hyuuga Uchiha, and so that they may end the possibility of any revenge or whatever, even if it is by fear.

I wouldn't doubt if the higher power you talk of is actually sharingan, though its suppressed by the clan itself in fear of something happening like the Uchiha Clan Massacre. There honestly is a LOT of hate in the Hyuuga clan because of one side thinking they're more deserving of power then the others. But honestly they get their thoughts read, they can get pain induced and even death induced just by the clan seal.

I know there is a scripture that Rikudo Sennin wrote and the Rinnegan could read it ALL the Sharingan could read MOST of it and it didn't say about the Byakugan itself.

As i say before, the suppression may be so that there is no more Hyuuga Uchiha xd
I actually don't know much about the scripture, but i will see if i can find out.

The origins of the Sharingan and Rinnegan are obviously from Ten Tails, as he posessed an eye that was composed of a Rinnegan with Tomoe. But that isn't what I'm saying here. The eyes of Rikudo Sennin would be Byakugan and those developed into Sharingan from the same hate Ten Tails had for Rikudo Sennin.

The Byakugans whole purpose is the essence of Rikudo Sennin himself.
The Rinnegan and Sharingan would be a hatred curse from Ten Tails. Like a hidden demon awaiting to destroy the earth. :]

That would make sense, but then why would the Rikudo Sennin always have had the rinnegan? But really, the part of being the "hate curse" you're talking about, maybe that's why naruto is trying so hard to end the chain of hatred, which takes everyone to the appearance of the jyuubi and perhaps the end of the naruto world as it is known.

Sharingan users haven't done anything but started wars and tried to kill people throughout Naruto history.

I blabbed on. n____n;

I would just like to add something this part of your post, as someone (can't remember if it's itachi or madara) states something when he's talking to sasuke like "that is the uchiha clan's bloody history" or something like that.

 

[Sharpism]

Spoiler

Oh, i see...



So then Byakugan is compared with the one tomoe sharingan? That would explain why the sharingan is stated as being stronger.



Ok, then they use the seal to prevent the appearance of a new Hyuuga Uchiha, and so that they may end the possibility of any revenge or whatever, even if it is by fear.



As i say before, the suppression may be so that there is no more Hyuuga Uchiha xd
I actually don't know much about the scripture, but i will see if i can find out.



That would make sense, but then why would the Rikudo Sennin always have had the rinnegan? But really, the part of being the "hate curse" you're talking about, maybe that's why naruto is trying so hard to end the chain of hatred, which takes everyone to the appearance of the jyuubi and perhaps the end of the naruto world as it is known.



I would just like to add something this part of your post, as someone (can't remember if it's itachi or madara) states something when he's talking to sasuke like "that is the uchiha clan's bloody history" or something like that.

A one Tomoe Sharingan is actually a few steps down from the Byakugan.
The Byakugan can see through solid objects, it can can also see 360 degrees.
When it changes into the Sharingan it closes making it a SMALL pupil. [Just as we have.] That way it can only see in ONE general direction. If the Sharingan puts focus in their eyes no matter hard they try they can't see through things.
[The Byakugan theory that I believe is that Chakra allows the eye sight to be magnified and go in between molecules of objects. This double feature takes a large extent of Chakra and thus the veins. Imagine FORCING your eyes to see so magnified that you actually see molecules AND THEN between them. It'd strain and probably take a large toll on your body/eyes, to prevent that toll you could use chakra to improve your eyesight.] This would also be why the Byakugan cannot see through walls of Chakra because other chakra would cancel out the effects of Chakra. [Use a bright light to look on another light. Like a Lazer Pointer and point it on a lightbulb, you don't see the lazer pointer.]
When Sharingan Users focus with Chakra the Tomoe move and thus you see the effects. [Slowed movements ect.]

Both the Sharingan and Byakugan take chakra to activate so that is comparable.

Byakugan has to be activated the reason why they don't use it 24/7 is because they wouldn't see people they'd see large masses of Chakra instead of features. Throughout the Series you see Sharingan users use Sharingan almost 24/7 but it still can be deactivate for a period of time. They're comparable there.

From there the eyes powers completely change. [Byakugans pupil covers almost the whole eye where the Sharingan doesn't. [Stress clenches up the muscles and closes the Byakugan.]
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Essentially the Seal Curse is for an innumerable amount of reasons I'm using it to back up my facts. :]
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The rinnegan has to be activated through hate just like Sharingan, it could have been a feature Rikudo didn't want anyone to have, it would go against his philosophy. Of world peace.

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It possess the Sharingan and the Rinnegan combined.
Rinnegan could be a physical trait that you get when you have Jubi sealed in you.

 

[JohnnyGo]

The rinnegan has to be activated through hate just like Sharingan, it could have been a feature Rikudo didn't want anyone to have, it would go against his philosophy. Of world peace.

That would then really make sense, as it would explain the meaning of him having made the tablet with the secrets, maybe he didn't expect a rinnegan user to appear or anything.

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It possess the Sharingan and the Rinnegan combined.
Rinnegan could be a physical trait that you get when you have Jubi sealed in you.

But then how did nagato get his? Also, when the story of the rikudo sennin is told, he first appears with the rinnegan, so it would mean he had it before sealing the jyuubi.

 

[Sharpism]

That would then really make sense, as it would explain the meaning of him having made the tablet with the secrets, maybe he didn't expect a rinnegan user to appear or anything.

The Rinnegan is a Dojutsu Nagato got it because its his Kekkie. There could be a huge bloodline clan that has it but none of them activate it.
"One day two Konoha shinobi broke into their home looking for food, unaware that the place was still inhabited. Nagato's parents, believing they were going to be killed, attacked the two so that Nagato could escape. Having mistaken them to be enemy ninja, the Konoha ninja killed his parents. In his grief, Nagato awakened his Rinnegan and killed the assailants. He would come to consider this incident the first great pain of his life."
_________

But then how did nagato get his? Also, when the story of the rikudo sennin is told, he first appears with the rinnegan, so it would mean he had it before sealing the jyuubi.

Its activated the same way. Read Rinnegan on NarutoWikia.

Where does it say that he has the Rinnegan before Jubi? [Link/Episode Number Please.]

 

[JohnnyGo]

Its activated the same way. Read Rinnegan on NarutoWikia.

Where does it say that he has the Rinnegan before Jubi? [Link/Episode Number Please.]

Well, i guess it doesn't state or at least i can't find it (i don't have the time nor the patience to look the whole manga for that), but one could assume that it is since the sage always appears with his eyes and when he created the moon or something, he lost the jyuubi. One would think that he would loose the rinnegan after that, right? So if it came form the jyuubi, then the elder son would get nothing
Dunno, i'm quite confused in this part, but it would make sense that he had the eyes before, as if he didn't it would be almost impossible to beat the jyuubi.

The only place in the manga that i found a picture of the sage was here:

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I know it doesn't say nothing, but there was another appearance before, but it's too far back so i can't find it.

 

[Sharpism]

Spoiler

Well, i guess it doesn't state or at least i can't find it (i don't have the time nor the patience to look the whole manga for that), but one could assume that it is since the sage always appears with his eyes and when he created the moon or something, he lost the jyuubi. One would think that he would loose the rinnegan after that, right? So if it came form the jyuubi, then the elder son would get nothing
Dunno, i'm quite confused in this part, but it would make sense that he had the eyes before, as if he didn't it would be almost impossible to beat the jyuubi.

The only place in the manga that i found a picture of the sage was here:

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I know it doesn't say nothing, but there was another appearance before, but it's too far back so i can't find it.

I actually just watched that episode it didn't say much on the subject that Nigato had the eyes that Rikudo Sennin.

When Rikudo Sennin made the moon he put Jubi's body in the middle of it, just in-case.

That means it would be after he sealed it in himself.
This also doesn't state if he actually "Defeated" Jubi or just sealed him inside himself.

Also it never states when an image is if its actually; BEFORE he sealed it or AFTER he sealed Jubi.

Once I get this 100% cleared up I might do a fan fic. ;D

 

[JohnnyGo]

I actually just watched that episode it didn't say much on the subject that Nigato had the eyes that Rikudo Sennin.

When Rikudo Sennin made the moon he put Jubi's body in the middle of it, just in-case.

That means it would be after he sealed it in himself.
This also doesn't state if he actually "Defeated" Jubi or just sealed him inside himself.

Also it never states when an image is if its actually; BEFORE he sealed it or AFTER he sealed Jubi.

Once I get this 100% cleared up I might do a fan fic. ;D

Yeah, i know. Some of these stories get quite confusing cause they don't really explain, as the objective is just to minimally support the main story (Naruto vs Sasuke)

 

[Sharpism]

Yeah, i know. Some of these stories get quite confusing cause they don't really explain, as the objective is just to minimally support the main story (Naruto vs Sasuke)

Pretty much. xD; Well Rikudo was a way to introduce biju orgins and where pein came from. ;P Although nto in much detail. xD;

 

[John Constantine]

I didn't read through the whole thread but seems interesting..
I just think Kishi should focus a little bit more on Byakugan..
Is a very very interesting eye lineage blood limit and Neji is a perfect character to be developed further into the issue.. Also they should be powered up and suffer some mutation some place in time like the Sharingan..