Establishing why Sasuke's characterization and devlopment is greater than Naruto's

[ANiMUS]

Have there been any black organization episodes in the past 4 years(Since shuichi akai appear with them burn marks on his face)?

Nope, I haven't watched the series in years. I might pick it up again once Naruto ends to fill the void in my manga diet......Especially since it seems like Tokyo Ghoul is about to end.

It gave the manga a final boss, and he can use whoever Kaguya was building the army to fight as a villain or as part of the story.

After all with Naruto and Sasuke having god like power they are going to need some big time new enemies to fight.

He can also work her backstory as a origin for other situations that may come up.

I seriously doubt that will happen. I think the movie will just focus on Naruto starting a revolution as was prophesied by Gamamaru

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Have there been any black organization episodes in the past 4 years(Since shuichi akai appear with them burn marks on his face)?

Kaitō Kid is my fave.

 

[Dannie]

#freeUZUMAKIMADARA

I lol'd

Sasuke after itachi death=plot device without real development.

lol spacey

 

[saw2097]

Nope, I haven't watched the series in years. I might pick it up again once Naruto ends to fill the void in my manga diet......Especially since it seems like Tokyo Ghoul is about to end.


I seriously doubt that will happen. I think the movie will just focus on Naruto starting a revolution as was prophesied by Gamamaru

There is going to be more than one movie, its the first entry in the project.

 

[ANiMUS]

There is going to be more than one movie, its the first entry in the project.

I really don't want it to be like DBZ. They should really just let it die. DBZ movies nowadays r just pointless fights. Trying to milk money out of a series just because it was once popular will probably decrease the plot and just reflect bad on the series.

 

[Darth Uchiha]

So Naruto's not a sociopath and that's a bad thing? Oh yeah, by the way, no, Sasuke did not have as much growth as Naruto, whereas Sasuke's overall goal was always avenging something, Naruto grew into a true hero. Also, it's implied Sasuke became so strong during the time skip due to modifications to his body, not to mention Naruto was exhausted from being in. Nine-Tails Mode. Another point, Pain, who Naruto managed to defeat, was far more powerful than Danzo ever was, so, if you call killing Danzo a big feat what would you call defeating Pain?

Believe it or not, it's not a bad thing that Naruto remained a good man, whereas Sasuke just went from bad to worse. I think it's far harder to strive to be a good man under much hardships, than to give up and give in to the cruelty of the world. In my mind, Naruto was, is, and always has been, stronger than Sasuke ever was.

 

[Dannie]

So Naruto's not a sociopath and that's a bad thing?

Obviously not even the point to anything.

Oh yeah, by the way, no, Sasuke did not have as much growth as Naruto,

And your proof if where?

whereas Sasuke's overall goal was always avenging something,

Whereas Naruto's only goal was getting inside of Sasuke's pants, right?
Sasuke's goals had a bigger impact on the story whereas Naruto's goal was figuring out about Sasuke's whereabouts throughout Shippuden.

Naruto grew into a true hero.

Like that matters.

Also, it's implied Sasuke became so strong during the time skip due to modifications to his body,

Silly excuse from Obito and Naruto fans when the feats are as clear as day. Naruto got punked and had to learn SM just to surpass beginning Shippuden Sasuke. Pretty sad.

not to mention Naruto was exhausted from being in. Nine-Tails Mode.

So, it seems you're still harping on this huh? Pretty pathetic how you can't accept facts.
That his own problem for being weak. Maybe if he didn't let Orochimaru tease him and awaken the Kyubi to take over his body then he could have actually did something.

Another point, Pain, who Naruto managed to defeat,

It seems you don't even read the manga as he would have lost that battle the moment Pain pinned him down, so technically with major Intel, Kyubi interference, help from Minato and Pain's talking, Naruto barely won shit. At least Sasuke defeated Deidara and Danzo on his own.

was far more powerful than Danzo ever was, so, if you call killing Danzo a big feat what would you call defeating Pain?

Explained above. With major intel, Kyubi interference, Minato help and Pain's lack to capture him, Naruto's feat of "defeating" pain is utter shit and so is your desperate attempt at proving it.

Believe it or not, it's not a bad thing that Naruto remained a good man,

Still missing the point I see. It's not about being good or bad, and who the hell determines development based off of if a character is good or bad? This thread is about development. Nnot your idiotic inclinations on being a good guy.

whereas Sasuke just went from bad to worse.

Yeah, I see you're not very good at paying attention. It's fine.
Basically your only argument is that if you are a bad guy then your development begins to drop, but your stance is flawed because many people find Itachi to be well developed and he was partially a bad guy as well.

I think it's far harder to strive to be a good man under much hardships,

Hardships? Going through life alone because he has a monster sealed inside his body as apposed to witnessing the death of your own family at the young age of 6. Go cry me a river. Naruto's hardships are hardly the effort of even talking about.

than to give up and give in to the cruelty of the world.

When did Sasuke give up? Oh you mean Sasuke actually trying to pursue his goals, not letting anyone get in the way of them and actually accomplishing them? Oh yeah, that's what I thought.
Did Naruto almost give up in the war because his fodder shinobi were dying? Oh but wait, who was the one to lift his spirits and get him back on track? I will give you some time to think about it since you seem to be lacking in a lot of things, and I doubt you read the whole thread. You probably just read the title and posted this ignorant bs that I am reading right now.

In my mind, Naruto was, is, and always has been, stronger than Sasuke ever was.

Right, even if this is not even the point of the thread, Naruto was always stronger than Sasuke, despite Naruto explicitly stating that he needs the Kyubi to fight Sasuke. Yes, it seems you lack in actually reading the manga.

Obvious Obito fan is obvious.

 

[UzumakiWade]

Opinions, opinions everywhere

 

[lanakui8]

There is no such thing as ʻbetter characterizationʻ since peopleʻs opinions of characters and what defines a character as better differs from person to person.

The psychopath will think that characters who become more psychopathic are becoming better characters.
The person who believes genocide is right will view characters who begin to adopt genocidal ideologies has become a better character while trying to paint ideals that contradict their own in a negative color.

Itʻs all based on subjective criteria for what defines a better character.

however, this thread didnʻt really even make it that far since the analysisʻs of both characters are not done with objectivity even being a slight goal which is why points like Sasuke being superior in battle strength to Naruto are brought up as a positive for Sasuke, yet later down the line Naruto being superior to Sasuke in battlestrength is not brought up as a positive for Naruto.

Kishi did both characters well, Narutoʻs growing reasoning and beliefs are a direct result of the experiences and personal struggles heʻs been through in the manga. Sasukeʻs are as well.

 

[Darth Uchiha]

Obviously not even the point to anything.


And your proof if where?


Whereas Naruto's only goal was getting inside of Sasuke's pants, right?
Sasuke's goals had a bigger impact on the story whereas Naruto's goal was figuring out about Sasuke's whereabouts throughout Shippuden.


Like that matters.


Silly excuse from Obito and Naruto fans when the feats are as clear as day. Naruto got punked and had to learn SM just to surpass beginning Shippuden Sasuke. Pretty sad.


So, it seems you're still harping on this huh? Pretty pathetic how you can't accept facts.
That his own problem for being weak. Maybe if he didn't let Orochimaru tease him and awaken the Kyubi to take over his body then he could have actually did something.


It seems you don't even read the manga as he would have lost that battle the moment Pain pinned him down, so technically with major Intel, Kyubi interference, help from Minato and Pain's talking, Naruto barely won shit. At least Sasuke defeated Deidara and Danzo on his own.


Explained above. With major intel, Kyubi interference, Minato help and Pain's lack to capture him, Naruto's feat of "defeating" pain is utter shit and so is your desperate attempt at proving it.


Still missing the point I see. It's not about being good or bad, and who the hell determines development based off of if a character is good or bad? This thread is about development. Nnot your idiotic inclinations on being a good guy.


Yeah, I see you're not very good at paying attention. It's fine.
Basically your only argument is that if you are a bad guy then your development begins to drop, but your stance is flawed because many people find Itachi to be well developed and he was partially a bad guy as well.


Hardships? Going through life alone because he has a monster sealed inside his body as apposed to witnessing the death of your own family at the young age of 6. Go cry me a river. Naruto's hardships are hardly the effort of even talking about.


When did Sasuke give up? Oh you mean Sasuke actually trying to pursue his goals, not letting anyone get in the way of them and actually accomplishing them? Oh yeah, that's what I thought.
Did Naruto almost give up in the war because his fodder shinobi were dying? Oh but wait, who was the one to lift his spirits and get him back on track? I will give you some time to think about it since you seem to be lacking in a lot of things, and I doubt you read the whole thread. You probably just read the title and posted this ignorant bs that I am reading right now.


Right, even if this is not even the point of the thread, Naruto was always stronger than Sasuke, despite Naruto explicitly stating that he needs the Kyubi to fight Sasuke. Yes, it seems you lack in actually reading the manga.

Obvious Obito fan is obvious.

First, you implied it was bad that Naruto actually gave a shit about his comrades dying, so yeah, hence my comment.

Naruto's goal changed from becoming hokage, to saving a friend, to protecting the world, and in the process learned to become a forgiving and all-loving hero.

My point with Naruto becoming a true hero was that he did change, so yeah.

Um, no, he had to learn Sage Mode to fight Pain, also, if you want to go with that argument, Sasuke needed to gain EMS just to beat Naruto.

You're argument doesn't make sense, you said he was weaker than Sasuke, sure he was at the moment because he was exhausted, same with Naruto and Sasuke at the Gokage Summit, just reversed.

Naruto managed to push Pain further than anyone else, so, yeah.

Sure, being good or bad doesn't equate to character development, but you behave as if being good negates it.

No, I don't believe if you're a bad guy you're development drops, I think Nagato and Obito were two of the most developed characters in the series, on par with Naruto and Sasuke, if not surpassing them.


I never said Sasuke's life was easy, but it wasn't as hard as Naruto's. Naruto was alone all his life, because people hated him for Somehing that wasn't even his fault, he could've become another Gaara or even another Obito, but he didn't. Sasuke on the other hand could have let people in, he was respected and loved by many, and many people felt sympathy for him, but he still chose to push people away, effectively making his own pain and obsession even greater.

Sasuke gave up when he decided that getting revenge on Itachi meant more than moving on with his life and actually being happy. As I said before, Naruto could've been another Obito, he almost was, but he allowed people in, which helped him. Sasuke, on the other hand, when he realized he was actually growing closer to other people, shut them out, and in Naruto's case, actively trid to kill them.

Obviously I don't mean physical strength, genius, I mean mental and moral strength. He was a direct parallel to every major villain (barring Orochimaru) in the series, with the strongest parallel to the former Big Bad, yet he still remained true to himself.

 

[Darth Uchiha]

There is no such thing as ʻbetter characterizationʻ since peopleʻs opinions of characters and what defines a character as better differs from person to person.

The psychopath will think that characters who become more psychopathic are becoming better characters.
The person who believes genocide is right will view characters who begin to adopt genocidal ideologies has become a better character while trying to paint ideals that contradict their own in a negative color.

Itʻs all based on subjective criteria for what defines a better character.

however, this thread didnʻt really even make it that far since the analysisʻs of both characters are not done with objectivity even being a slight goal which is why points like Sasuke being superior in battle strength to Naruto are brought up as a positive for Sasuke, yet later down the line Naruto being superior to Sasuke in battlestrength is not brought up as a positive for Naruto.

Kishi did both characters well, Narutoʻs growing reasoning and beliefs are a direct result of the experiences and personal struggles heʻs been through in the manga. Sasukeʻs are as well.

This, you sir, are correct. This thread is honestly extremely biased, and even refuses to acknowledge that there's anything good about Naruto, turning all of his positives into bad things.

 

[Dannie]

There is no such thing as ʻbetter characterizationʻ since peopleʻs opinions of characters and what defines a character as better differs from person to person.

The psychopath will think that characters who become more psychopathic are becoming better characters.
The person who believes genocide is right will view characters who begin to adopt genocidal ideologies has become a better character while trying to paint ideals that contradict their own in a negative color.

Itʻs all based on subjective criteria for what defines a better character.

however, this thread didnʻt really even make it that far since the analysisʻs of both characters are not done with objectivity even being a slight goal which is why points like Sasuke being superior in battle strength to Naruto are brought up as a positive for Sasuke, yet later down the line Naruto being superior to Sasuke in battlestrength is not brought up as a positive for Naruto.

Kishi did both characters well, Narutoʻs growing reasoning and beliefs are a direct result of the experiences and personal struggles heʻs been through in the manga. Sasukeʻs are as well.

Pretty much the same reason why most if not all Naruto threads involve power and how "Naruto > Sasuke" so this thread is not all about power, hence if it was about power then you wouldn't be arguing with me now would you?

First, you implied it was bad that Naruto actually gave a shit about his comrades dying, so yeah, hence my comment.
Naruto's goal changed from becoming hokage, to saving a friend, to protecting the world, and in the process learned to become a forgiving and all-loving hero.

My point with Naruto becoming a true hero was that he did change, so yeah.

Um, no, he had to learn Sage Mode to fight Pain, also, if you want to go with that argument, Sasuke needed to gain EMS just to beat Naruto.

You're argument doesn't make sense, you said he was weaker than Sasuke, sure he was at the moment because he was exhausted, same with Naruto and Sasuke at the Gokage Summit, just reversed.

Naruto managed to push Pain further than anyone else, so, yeah.

Sure, being good or bad doesn't equate to character development, but you behave as if being good negates it.

No, I don't believe if you're a bad guy you're development drops, I think Nagato and Obito were two of the most developed characters in the series, on par with Naruto and Sasuke, if not surpassing them.


I never said Sasuke's life was easy, but it wasn't as hard as Naruto's. Naruto was alone all his life, because people hated him for Somehing that wasn't even his fault, he could've become another Gaara or even another Obito, but he didn't. Sasuke on the other hand could have let people in, he was respected and loved by many, and many people felt sympathy for him, but he still chose to push people away, effectively making his own pain and obsession even greater.

Sasuke gave up when he decided that getting revenge on Itachi meant more than moving on with his life and actually being happy. As I said before, Naruto could've been another Obito, he almost was, but he allowed people in, which helped him. Sasuke, on the other hand, when he realized he was actually growing closer to other people, shut them out, and in Naruto's case, actively trid to kill them.

Obviously I don't mean physical strength, genius, I mean mental and moral strength. He was a direct parallel to every major villain (barring Orochimaru) in the series, with the strongest parallel to the former Big Bad, yet he still remained true to himself.

@bold: I'm not going to bother reading the rest of that garbage when the bold is about as stupid as your analysis. Obviously this is a war. How many times has it been okay for people to start crying during a war and stop focusing in the enemy? There is time to mourn when you are not fighting. You don't become a b!tch in the middle of combat. That completely destroys all chances of victory.

As for my point, delusional Obito fan is obvious.

This, you sir, are correct. This thread is honestly extremely biased, and even refuses to acknowledge that there's anything good about Naruto, turning all of his positives into bad things.

If you would have bothered to read the whole thread then you would have noticed that I did show how Naruto showed positive development.

Given your responses, it's quite obvious that if you were to create the exact same thread as I, you would have did no better than me, so you can cut that biased bs crap of not giving Naruto his feats. Hypocrisy is written all over your face, boy.

 

[Darth Uchiha]

Pretty much the same reason why most if not all Naruto threads involve power and how "Naruto > Sasuke" so this thread is not all about power, hence if it was about power then you wouldn't be arguing with me now would you?




@bold: I'm not going to bother reading the rest of that garbage when the bold is about as stupid as your analysis. Obviously this is a war. How many times has it been okay for people to start crying during a war and stop focusing in the enemy? There is time to mourn when you are not fighting. You don't become a b!tch in the middle of combat. That completely destroys all chances of victory.

As for my point, delusional Obito fan is obvious.



If you would have bothered to read the whole thread then you would have noticed that I did show how Naruto showed positive development.

Given your responses, it's quite obvious that if you were to create the exact same thread as I, you would have did no better than me, so you can cut that biased bs of crap of not giving Naruto his feats. Hypocrisy is written all over your face boy.

Nope, I was just sick of people putting down Naruto, it gets annoying, either way, since you can't even be honest enough to debate me like an adult (and I'm probably younger than you too) I think we're done here. Oh yeah, and about that whole "it's war, people die" thing, soldiers, believe it or not, are actually human, and do, in fact, cry over fallen comrades. Naruto wasn't being a ***** in the middle of combat, he was freaking out because he personally witnessed thousands of people die right in front of him, you'd have to be f*cking sick not to care! besides which, he wasn't balling, he had a moment of weakness, we all do, like when Sasuke elected to save only himself , Juugo, Naruto, and possibly the Edo-Tenseis, or his entire tenure as a villain.

Edit: Also, delusional Obito fan? When did I praise Obito? I mentioned him (along with Nagato) to point out that I don't believe that being a villain means you're underdeveloped, of course, ad-hominem attacks are usually a sign that you're losing a debate and you know it, so, whatever, points to me.

 

[Dannie]

Nope, I was just sick of people putting down Naruto, it gets annoying, either way, since you can't even be honest enough to debate me like an adult (and I'm probably younger than you too) I think we're done here. Oh yeah, and about that whole "it's war, people die" thing, soldiers, believe it or not, are actually human, and do, in fact, cry over fallen comrades. Naruto wasn't being a ***** in the middle of combat, he was freaking out because he personally witnessed thousands of people die right in front of him, you'd have to be f*cking sick not to care! besides which, he wasn't balling, he had a moment of weakness, we all do, like when Sasuke elected to save only himself , Juugo, Naruto, and possibly the Edo-Tenseis, or his entire tenure as a villain.

More like you're getting butthurt over my thread and have nothing to prove but your own flawed assumptions. You're sick of people putting down Naruto? As if I give a shit. Their human? Nice excuse. As if that gives him a reason to start crying for random fodders during a war when eh should be kicking Juubito's ass. Oh I'm sorry, did I say kicking Juubito's ass? I wonder if that little statement is going to upset you.
Your butthrt feelings for Naruto has nothing to do with my thread, so either say something smart or get the fck out.

 

[Darth Uchiha]

More like you're getting butthurt over my thread and have nothing to prove but your own flawed assumptions. You're sick of people putting down Naruto? As if I give a shit. Their human? Nice excuse. As if that gives him a reason to start crying for random fodders during a war when eh should be kicking Juubito's ass. Oh I'm sorry, did I say kicking Juubito's ass? I wonder if that little statement is going to upset you.
Your butthrt feelings for Naruto has nothing to do with my thread, so either say something smart or get the fck out.

Well, hey, this is the internet, people disagree with you, big deal. You really wanna be in some massive circle jerk, surrounded with echoes of praise, then join one of the fan clubs, but don't whine just because people disagree with your biased opinions.

 

[Dannie]

Well, hey, this is the internet, people disagree with you, big deal. You really wanna be in some massive circle jerk, surrounded with echoes of praise, then join one of the fan clubs, but don't whine just because people disagree with your biased opinions.

lmao, this is rich.

So Naruto's not a sociopath and that's a bad thing? Oh yeah, by the way, no, Sasuke did not have as much growth as Naruto, whereas Sasuke's overall goal was always avenging something, Naruto grew into a true hero. Also, it's implied Sasuke became so strong during the time skip due to modifications to his body, not to mention Naruto was exhausted from being in. Nine-Tails Mode. Another point, Pain, who Naruto managed to defeat, was far more powerful than Danzo ever was, so, if you call killing Danzo a big feat what would you call defeating Pain?

Believe it or not, it's not a bad thing that Naruto remained a good man, whereas Sasuke just went from bad to worse. I think it's far harder to strive to be a good man under much hardships, than to give up and give in to the cruelty of the world. In my mind, Naruto was, is, and always has been, stronger than Sasuke ever was.

Please tell me more about how butthurt you are.
The only person whining here is you, pal. Getting upset because you can't accept the truth that their are actual flaws in certain characters.

Obito fans be irate.

 

[Darth Uchiha]

lmao, this is rich.


Please tell me more about how butthurt you are.
The only person whining here is you, pal. Getting upset because you can't accept the truth that their are actual flaws in certain characters.

Obito fans be irate.

Believe it or not, I was never angry, honestly, I like Naruto (the manga) but I have a life, and I could never really be angry over it. I was just countering you're points. Also, believe it or not, insulting Obito or Obito fans doesn't really bother me, Obito is my fav...okay...my life doesn't revolve around the character, honestly, the insults are like water to me. All I really wanted was honest, somewhat intellectual debate (why I joined the Base) but clearly, you can't deliver on that.

 

[Dannie]

Believe it or not, I was never angry, honestly, I like Naruto (the manga) but I have a life, and I could never really be angry over it. I was just countering you're points. Also, believe it or not, insulting Obito or Obito fans doesn't really bother me, Obito is my fav...okay...my life doesn't revolve around the character, honestly, the insults are like water to me. All I really wanted was honest, somewhat intellectual debate (why I joined the Base) but clearly, you can't deliver on that.

You were angry enough to respond with your undermined idiotic comments while making excuses for Naruto's constant obsession for Sasuke and his crying during a war while trying to prove that Naruto > Sasuke when in fact that is not even the topic or point of the thread, so in actuality you are asshurt as you needed to bring in something that was already established.

Oh believe me, I am far more gifted to give you a proper debate, but of course insignificant trash like this makes it hard for me to do so. You particularly can't give me anything but this useless back and forth nonsense that I have seen time and time again. Honestly, like I said before, if you have nothing smart to say, then get the fck out of this thread and go fap to Obito photos, boy.

 

[Mad Daz]

Great read. Too bad I cannot rep you at the moment. I'll just quote myself from another thread:





Type one coherent paragraph explaining to me that Naruto ever developed beyond trying to establish his socialization status and to procure the Hokage seat and to save just about everyone. His one line, "people will live happily ever after" defines his entire character. Seriously, I challenge any Naruto fan. One decent paragraph justifying any of this.

That quote you made from yourself is literally the most cringe-worthy thing ive seen on this site. Your delusions of self- grandor have made you sound like a pompous ass lol.


Edit- on topic: i disagree v.v i see sasukes past very differently, however his current character is not to bad as im interested in what he is going to do next. Definitly not my favorite character because of something like that though. Typing while driving excuse errors.

 

[Darth Uchiha]

You were angry enough to respond with your undermined idiotic comments while making excuses for Naruto's constant obsession for Sasuke and his crying during a war while trying to prove that Naruto > Sasuke when in fact that is not even the topic or point of the thread, so in actuality you are asshurt as you needed to bring in something that was already established.

Oh believe me, I am far more gifted to give you a proper debate, but of course insignificant trash like this makes it hard for me to do so. You particularly can't give me anything but this useless back and forth nonsense that I have seen time and time again. Honestly, like I said before, if you have nothing smart to say, then get the fck out of this thread and go fap to Obito photos, boy.

That's my point, I enjoy debating, so I argued against your points. Literally, all you do is insult me, when I haven't insulted you once. Any seasoned debater knows that ad-hominem attacks are as good as admitting defeat, "fap to Obito photos" really, that's the best you can do?