Hashirama vs Onoki + Mu

[KCN]

why is hashirama being lowered to these levels? he shits on them both

 

[KidGamer65]

That's what I meant. He only needs to swing it around once to get a hit.

Madara evaded it, and purposely let it graze his shoulder so they would see Hashirama's face.

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Hashirama is physically on par with Madara, and Sage Mode buffs his speed and strength even more. So evading Jinton isn't an issue, especially when he can make Mokuton Clones, which Mu nor Onoki can tell apart from the original.

No, I'm pretty sure it's only his Ultimate Defense that's infused with chakra. Regular sand doesn't carry chakra, otherwise Madara would have been able to absorb it with Preta Path. Besides, Hashirama's wood is infused with his chakra, otherwise he wouldn't be able to manipulate it. You're grasping at straws here if you say "Mu can't dodge it because it doesn't have a chakra signature" when 1) he's avoided Gaara's sand which has no chakra and 2) Hashirama's wood constructions have the same amount of chakra in them as Gaara's sand unless you have scans saying otherwise. Doesn't really matter anyway since Mu can go invisible so Hashi has no idea where to drop the wooden gate

Gaara controls all his sand with chakra, this should be common knowledge when we are this far in the manga. No chakra means he can't even control the sand as chakra is what he uses to control it, unless you are telling me he uses some kind of psychic ability to manipulate it.....the funniest part about this post is, you claim Gaara controls his sand without chakra, but then you go to say Hashirama's Wood is infused with his chakra, otherwise he wouldn't be able to manipulate it...lmao.

All Sand Gaara controls is infused with chakra. Regular sand doesn't move on its own, and Myojinmon isn't a Mokuton Jutsu, so there is zero evidence or reason to believe that there is chakra inside it.

Number 1 is false, Gaara's sand has chakra, otherwise he wouldn't have sensed it. Otherwise it wouldn't be moving.

Number 2 is irrelevant since Myojinmon isn't Mokuton.

Mu has to become visible to use Jinton, or any other jutsu that requires chakra, so once he does, that would be a time for him to drop the Gate.

 

[KidGamer65]

They couldn't go all out if they were inexperienced ... That is my point neither r in thier primes at this point at least it is known onooki isn't he's 2 young Mu I'm assuming was in his prime when he was feuding with Trollkage that is when he was tschikage which against mDara he wasn't .. Atleast not tht I'm aware of I thought flying dude is still alive at this point

Inexperience=/=Unable to go all out. Not to mention there is no proof that they, at least Mu were inexperienced.

What I'm trying to say is madara beat them in his prime (he didn't go all out I get it) cuz he didn't have 2 but these 2 r clearly not in their prime so their power levels are not the same ... Or abilities

Onoki? Sure. Mu? Where's the proof.

In the fight against hashi (again I think hashi wins) they will b at their prime or Atleast from what we have seen yes ? What we seen in the war. And what we can interpret from madara vs onooki and Mu from mad long ago r 2 different sets of ppl ...

Mu and Madara? No. Onoki? Yes.

As for jinton let's go by ur logic assuming both onooki and Mu r skilled jinton users at this point

U said jinton wasn't being fired at the ground dude madara can't fly if these 2 (assuming they can fly at this point) r flying why wouldn't it be aimed at the ground madara cannot tank a jinton with regular Susannos we know this (so this is out of question) right so either he dodge the jinton (which is hard as hell to do with 2 jinton users) and if that was to happen holes will b left in ground or what ever madara was standing but there isn't so the other option is that it wasn't used (in ur previous post madara could've beat them so quick that they didn't have time to use it this could b the case as well they were young as ****)

Then he beat them before they had a chance to use it. Either way, the manga clearly portrays Madara (Not at full power)>>Mu and a young Onoki.

 

[Phonas]

The energy level here is on a 10. I'm gonna need a 20. Keep it coming, homo-sapiens!

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[KidGamer65]

They rendezvoused with Madara at Iawagukre in the hopes of creating an alliance with the Leaf.

Spoiler

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Doesn't meant they were at the part of the village where people resided.

Based on Akatsuchi's words, it appeared as if he meant that Onoki can "blow up" the entire island with ONE shot.

Nothing was said that implied one shot, and everything else that has been shown disagrees with him being able to do that.

What's another example of a jutsu that the Byakugo's chakra has been shown to power up?

It allowed Kamui to reach into dimensions it couldn't normally do, but that was only because of Obito's chakra restrains. Same principle for Onoki

What if they're shooting it from the clouds? Would the Mokuton even reach them, let alone in time?

1. Then Hashirama can evade it with ease.

2. They'd have to get up there first.

 

[Phonas]

Nothing was said that implied one shot, and everything else that has been shown disagrees with him being able to do that.

Then I'm not understanding this panel:

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[LuckyMan]

Like I have said many times, Jinton can kill Turtle Island by putting a whole clean through it. Kishi clearly used a hyperbole when he had Akatasuchi say "destroy the whole island" because Onoki's feats show he can't make a Jinton that big, not even close, like.... I can't even begin to describe how wrong that statement is and surprised some still hold the belief he can when everything hes shown shows otherwise. Killing the Turtle would be destroying the island, thats what he meant. Can Kurama destroy mountains and conjure Tsunamis with its tail? No, its feats show otherwise and its clearly hyperbole. Does Kamui work at light speed? No, feats show otherwise and is hyperbole. This should not be hard to understand.

 

[Phonas]

Yes! I can feel the heat in this thread escalating to new levels. It's becoming as hot as Africa up in here. Whoooo!

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[Beans2]

Madara evaded it, and purposely let it graze his shoulder so they would see Hashirama's face.

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Hashirama is physically on par with Madara, and Sage Mode buffs his speed and strength even more. So evading Jinton isn't an issue, especially when he can make Mokuton Clones, which Mu nor Onoki can tell apart from the original.

You're forgetting Onoki wasn't aiming for Madara; he was only trying to destroy Flower Tree World to save his comrades. Madara probably was just in the vicinity. If Onoki and Mu both aim for Hashirama and make jintons of that scale and swing them around, Hashirama isn't escaping the AoE; not to mention, with no intel he will try to block their attack instead of dodging. Onoki already knows about wood clones and will keep an eye out and notice if Hashirama makes any.

Gaara controls all his sand with chakra, this should be common knowledge when we are this far in the manga. No chakra means he can't even control the sand as chakra is what he uses to control it, unless you are telling me he uses some kind of psychic ability to manipulate it.....the funniest part about this post is, you claim Gaara controls his sand without chakra, but then you go to say Hashirama's Wood is infused with his chakra, otherwise he wouldn't be able to manipulate it...lmao.

All Sand Gaara controls is infused with chakra. Regular sand doesn't move on its own, and Myojinmon isn't a Mokuton Jutsu, so there is zero evidence or reason to believe that there is chakra inside it.

Number 1 is false, Gaara's sand has chakra, otherwise he wouldn't have sensed it. Otherwise it wouldn't be moving.

Number 2 is irrelevant since Myojinmon isn't Mokuton.

Mu has to become visible to use Jinton, or any other jutsu that requires chakra, so once he does, that would be a time for him to drop the Gate.

Lol, the level to which you are purposely misinterpreting the manga in order to make your claims seem more valid. The best part is how you said "Mu dodged the sand because it contains chakra, and the sand contains chakra since Mu could dodge it".

One of these two is the plain truth:

1.) Gaara's sand has chakra and so does Hashirama's mokuton. Since Mu dodged Gaara's sand multiple times

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, he should have no trouble dodging wood

2.) Gaara's sand doesn't have chakra in it, seeing as how Madara was unable to absorb it and neither does Hashirama's wood. Then Mu's sensing is not chakra-based sensing, and he dodges the wood just like he dodged sand.

Your claim that "Gaara's sand has chakra but Hashirama's myojinmon doesn't" doesn't make any sense, especially since you don't back this up with scans. I will believe you when you logically establish:

-Why Madara couldn't absorb Gaara's sand
-Why you think myojinmon isn't mokuton
-Why you think Hashirama can manipulate it without chakra being involved

 

[Phonas]

Okay, now the heat has volcanically intensified.

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[KidGamer65]

You're forgetting Onoki wasn't aiming for Madara; he was only trying to destroy Flower Tree World to save his comrades. Madara probably was just in the vicinity. If Onoki and Mu both aim for Hashirama and make jintons of that scale and swing them around, Hashirama isn't escaping the AoE; not to mention, with no intel he will try to block their attack instead of dodging. Onoki already knows about wood clones and will keep an eye out and notice if Hashirama makes any.

Hashirama can merge with the environment, so he just sinks into the ground and evades it, and Onoki keeping an eye out for clones isn't going to change the fact that he can't tell them apart from the real one, so they can waste all their chakra using Jinton, it won't change anything.

Lol, the level to which you are purposely misinterpreting the manga in order to make your claims seem more valid. The best part is how you said "Mu dodged the sand because it contains chakra, and the sand contains chakra since Mu could dodge it".

One of these two is the plain truth:

1.) Gaara's sand has chakra and so does Hashirama's mokuton. Since Mu dodged Gaara's sand multiple times

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, he should have no trouble dodging wood

This is true, but we aren't talking about him dodging wood. Myojinmon isn't a Mokuton jutsu. There is nothing complex about what I'm saying. The only one "misinterpreting" the manga is the guy with the ridiculous claims like "Myojinmon is Mokuton"

Your claim that "Gaara's sand has chakra but Hashirama's myojinmon doesn't" doesn't make any sense, especially since you don't back this up with scans. I will believe you when you logically establish:

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If people would read the manga before posting, then going through all this trouble for scans wouldn't be necessary, especially since we are debating a sub topic so simple.

-Why Madara couldn't absorb Gaara's sand

Chakra infused Sand. Who ever said, showed or implied that his sand was made of chakra? He can absorb the chakra in it, he can't absorb the sand as its sand, not chakra.

-Why you think myojinmon isn't mokuton

Do you see the "Mokuton" behind the naming of the jutsu? The same "Mokuton:" that every Mokuton Jutsu has?

"Mokuton Jukai Kotan"

"Mokuton Shinsuusenju"

"Mokuton Mokujin"

No. So its not Mokuton. Simple as that.

-Why you think Hashirama can manipulate it without chakra being involved

1. He doesn't manipulate Myojinmon, whoever said he does? Manga surely never showed such a thing.

2. Myojinmon isn't Mokuton. Nothing implies there is chakra running through it, and you claimed that there was chakra in it, yet there is no proof coming from your side..though I can't blame you since there is no evidence in the manga that would lead you to your conclusion let alone proof.

 

[ARGUS]

And ppl complain that hashi is wanked smh

 

[LuckyMan]

And ppl complain that hashi is wanked smh

He actually is really wanked but I think his wank is the most reasonable considering he is the Shinju in human form.

 

[Sound]

ˆˆ Myojinmon is a variant of Naruto's Toori seal that Kurama asked:" is this Rikoudou."
It's probably a restraint sealing technique that Hashirama learned from Mito.

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[Beans2]

Hashirama can merge with the environment, so he just sinks into the ground and evades it, and Onoki keeping an eye out for clones isn't going to change the fact that he can't tell them apart from the real one, so they can waste all their chakra using Jinton, it won't change anything.

Hashirama can use mayfly now? Can you show me a scan? Legitimate question. Also I'd like to point out that jinton destroys the landscape so if he merges with it he still gets killed.

This is true, but we aren't talking about him dodging wood. Myojinmon isn't a Mokuton jutsu. There is nothing complex about what I'm saying. The only one "misinterpreting" the manga is the guy with the ridiculous claims like "Myojinmon is Mokuton"

I'm not following...whether or not it's mokuton is irrelavant since all ninjutsu is used through molding and manipulating chakra, not just mokuton (there are obvious exceptions where the user himself stated otherwise, such as Kabuto and Muki Tensei.)

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If people would read the manga before posting, then going through all this trouble for scans wouldn't be necessary, especially since we are debating a sub topic so simple.


Chakra infused Sand. Who ever said, showed or implied that his sand was made of chakra? He can absorb the chakra in it, he can't absorb the sand as its sand, not chakra.



Do you see the "Mokuton" behind the naming of the jutsu? The same "Mokuton:" that every Mokuton Jutsu has?

"Mokuton Jukai Kotan"

"Mokuton Shinsuusenju"

"Mokuton Mokujin"

No. So its not Mokuton. Simple as that.




1. He doesn't manipulate Myojinmon, whoever said he does? Manga surely never showed such a thing.

2. Myojinmon isn't Mokuton. Nothing implies there is chakra running through it, and you claimed that there was chakra in it, yet there is no proof coming from your side..though I can't blame you since there is no evidence in the manga that would lead you to your conclusion let alone proof.

Are those gates not made out of wood? Weird, I always thought they looked like they were wooden structures. Okay, so they're not Mokuton; so what? The fact that they're there and were summoned means Hashirama used chakra to summon them. Mu can still sense it and dodge. Is sensing even necessary though, really, since how can he miss a giant gate slamming down on him? Especially if he's invisible and Hashirama doesn't know where to slam down the gate?

 

[Beans2]

Oh, also if Madara could absorb the chakra that Gaara manipulated his sand with, then Gaara could no longer manipulate that sand; meaning that Gaara would lose complete control over his sand, yet this didn't happen despite Madara having Preta Path activated.

I'd like to see a scan saying Gaara manipulates his sand with chakra.

 

[KidGamer65]

Hashirama can use mayfly now? Can you show me a scan? Legitimate question. Also I'd like to point out that jinton destroys the landscape so if he merges with it he still gets killed.

Yamato merges with the environment using Mokuton.

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Madara merges with his own Mokuton.

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And yeah, but it'd still have to hit the area where Hashirama merged, cause he can travel through the environment, and his clones can do it as well, meaning they don't know where to aim.

I'm not following...whether or not it's mokuton is irrelavant since all ninjutsu is used through molding and manipulating chakra, not just mokuton (there are obvious exceptions where the user himself stated otherwise, such as Kabuto and Muki Tensei.)

All Ninjutsu being made by manipulating chakra doesn't mean that there is chakra inside the Ninjutsu being used itself. Mokuton isn't made from chakra, but chakra is in it. Shinra Tensei isn't made of chakra. Bansho Tennin isn't made of chakra. Asura Missles aren't made of chakra either. They are actual repulsive forces/weaponry.

Are those gates not made out of wood? Weird, I always thought they looked like they were wooden structures. Okay, so they're not Mokuton; so what? The fact that they're there and were summoned means Hashirama used chakra to summon them. Mu can still sense it and dodge. Is sensing even necessary though, really, since how can he miss a giant gate slamming down on him? Especially if he's invisible and Hashirama doesn't know where to slam down the gate?

@bold: Then you'd have to prove that chakra is inside of the Gate, it being Ninjutsu isn't enough as stated above.

1. Hashirama managed to catch Madara, and he's faster than Mu, so catching Mu shouldn't be too hard.

2. Like I said, Mu needs to become visible to use Jinton, once he does, the Gate slams him into the ground.

Oh, also if Madara could absorb the chakra that Gaara manipulated his sand with, then Gaara could no longer manipulate that sand; meaning that Gaara would lose complete control over his sand, yet this didn't happen despite Madara having Preta Path activated.

Did Madara ever use Preta Path on any of the Sand Gaara was controlling? No. So naturally nothing would happen.

I'd like to see a scan saying Gaara manipulates his sand with chakra.

Wow........not even sure if serious. :| I'll post your scan tomorrow. Its late, and I'm tired. So I'm off.

 

[Phonas]

Nothing was said that implied one shot, and everything else that has been shown disagrees with him being able to do that.

One could argue that Onoki has never been able to display such a scale of a Jinton because its AOE would kill his comrades that are in battle with him.

 

[Beans2]

Yamato merges with the environment using Mokuton.

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Madara merges with his own Mokuton.

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And yeah, but it'd still have to hit the area where Hashirama merged, cause he can travel through the environment, and his clones can do it as well, meaning they don't know where to aim.

I don't see how this is an issue seeing as Mu can sense Hashirama while underground.

All Ninjutsu being made by manipulating chakra doesn't mean that there is chakra inside the Ninjutsu being used itself. Mokuton isn't made from chakra, but chakra is in it. Shinra Tensei isn't made of chakra. Bansho Tennin isn't made of chakra. Asura Missles aren't made of chakra either. They are actual repulsive forces/weaponry.

What exactly is the gate made out of, if not wood? I need to know before I continue to reply.

@bold: Then you'd have to prove that chakra is inside of the Gate, it being Ninjutsu isn't enough as stated above.

1. Hashirama managed to catch Madara, and he's faster than Mu, so catching Mu shouldn't be too hard.

2. Like I said, Mu needs to become visible to use Jinton, once he does, the Gate slams him into the ground.

1. Mu dodged KCM Naruto, who's faster than both Madara and Hashirama.
2. Mu dodges the gate, and who said he would use jinton right off the bat?

Did Madara ever use Preta Path on any of the Sand Gaara was controlling? No. So naturally nothing would happen.

Yes, he did:

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Wow........not even sure if serious. :| I'll post your scan tomorrow. Its late, and I'm tired. So I'm off.

Okey

 

[Penguin]

Gaara manipulates his sand due to chakra. He needs chakra to manipulate it. This is getting sad here. Why didn't Onoki and Mu rape Madara with a big ass planet busting Jinton? Cause they can't. Madara spanked them, and by using common sense, Hashirama bends them over. They aren't even in the same tier.