[VS] Ay vs Tobirama

[KidGamer65]

Well then please explain what you think Tobirama meant by... "Using FTG with clones is too slow"

?

I just did. :|

Hiraishin activates when the user wants it to. It activates slower than when the original uses it because a clone's reactions aren't as good as the originals, and their reactions is what triggers the jutsu.

 

[Gold Lightning]

I just did. :|

Hiraishin activates when the user wants it to. It activates slower than when the original uses it because a clone's reactions aren't as good as the originals, and their reactions is what triggers the jutsu.

I don't think a clones reactions would change compared to the original. That doesn't make sense, what makes more sense is that the jutsu itself doesn't initiate as fast as the original. What would a clones reactions reduce, it's just a natural/mental ability, not like it takes chakra or anything like that.

And my point still stands from before, any clones will be wiped out pretty easily against v2 if they can't FTG as fast as the original.

 

[KingHashirama]

Tobirama senjuu

 

[KidGamer65]

I don't think a clones reactions would change compared to the original. That doesn't make sense, what makes more sense is that the jutsu itself doesn't initiate as fast as the original. What would a clones reactions reduce, it's just a natural/mental ability, not like it takes chakra or anything like that.

And my point still stands from before, any clones will be wiped out pretty easily against v2 if they can't FTG as fast as the original.

No, it doesn't. Not being able to teleport as fast as the original doesn't mean they get wiped out by Ay. They said it was too slow to attempt when they were up against Juubito. Ay is nowhere near that level of speed, so there is pretty much no evidence that his clones can't evade Ay. Minato's clone used Hiraishin just fine with

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, Tobirama

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So I don't see how your belief on why Hiraishin is slower with clones is valid.

 

[Gold Lightning]

No, it doesn't. Not being able to teleport as fast as the original doesn't mean they get wiped out by Ay. They said it was too slow to attempt when they were up against Juubito. Ay is nowhere near that level of speed, so there is pretty much no evidence that his clones can't evade Ay. Minato's clone used Hiraishin just fine with

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, Tobirama

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So I don't see how your belief on why Hiraishin is slower with clones is valid.

It wasn't because Juubito is faster, that Tobirama was worried about the clones speed. It's because minato and Tobirama needed to get the timing right in order to sync their combination with Naruto and Sasuke's attacks. It had nothing to do with Juubito's speed in that instance.

And let me get this straight, you're saying that even though Tobirama stated something, you're using feats rather than taking his word?

 

[KidGamer65]

It wasn't because Juubito is faster, that Tobirama was worried about the clones speed. It's because minato and Tobirama needed to get the timing right in order to sync their combination with Naruto and Sasuke's attacks. It had nothing to do with Juubito's speed in that instance.

They were still attacking Juubito. If they're too slow to use the jutsu, he could have counter attacked. Though your reason applies as well.

And let me get this straight, you're saying that even though Tobirama stated something, you're using feats rather than taking his word?

No. I'm only agreeing with my theory. That its slower because of the reactions of the clone, not because of any time delay for the jutsu's activation.

It being slower for whatever reason doesn't mean that Ay is fast enough to catch them regardless.

 

[Gold Lightning]

They were still attacking Juubito. If they're too slow to use the jutsu, he could have counter attacked. Though your reason applies as well.




No. I'm only agreeing with my theory. That its slower because of the reactions of the clone, not because of any time delay for the jutsu's activation.

It being slower for whatever reason doesn't mean that Ay is fast enough to catch them regardless.

Well fair enough, you've tired me out kg. I don't wanna do this anymore

Your theory of what Tobirama meant differs from mine, so this is pointless anyway.

 

[TRE MERCER]

That's not how it works. Hiraishin only gets slower based on the reactions of the person using it. So once again, get evidence that the clones wouldn't be able to react in time.



Lol, how many times do I have to own you before you stop talking stuff?

1. I never stated Tobirama has comparable reactions to Juubito, I said his reactions are fast enough to let him react to Juubito's Shunshin. READ.

2. Hashirama's clone didn't react, it got torn apart and THEN it attacked. Tobirama tagged him before he got hit. Once again, READ.

3. Sasuke didn't react to Juubito's Shunshin. He reacted to Juubito's Gudo Dama attack, and then got blitzed by his Shunshin in THE VERY NEXT PAGE. Again, read the manga.

4. V1 Juubito>>>>Ay in speed. So it doesn't really matter what version it is.

5. The bold is completely irrelevant to the argument. Everything I stated about Juubito and Tobirama is a fact. Nothing you post will change that.





Ay being confident doesn't mean anything here. Many people have been confident that they'd do something or win a fight...and they got their ass beat. "Confidence" isn't an argument, especially when Tobirama and Ay are in different positions.

"Obviously" isn't an argument.




Evidence his speed changed? Cause I'm definitely seeing nothing here.

-Minato dodged Ay's full speed. Ay said Naruto is the second to dodge that speed. Meaning they both dodged Ay's speed.

-Ay went at Naruto with the INTENT TO KILL. Yet you are telling me he didn't go full speed? Keep on denying manga facts buddy.

-There is no evidence that Ay got any faster.

When you can even explain how the bold is proof that Ay got faster then we can talk. It sounds like you are still trying to argue this ridiculous, "He didn't have V2" point, even though V2 isn't a mode to obtain. Its Ay pumping more chakra into his Raiton Armor. Stop making it seem like its a mode that he trained to obtain or some shit like that.

Here goes your proof.(

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)-(

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) Sasuke was fighting on par with V1 once V2 was active he completely lost him.The Bijuu attacked Madara with the intent to kill but didn't use Bijuudama's.

 

[KidGamer65]

Here goes your proof.(

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)-(

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) Sasuke was fighting on par with V1 once V2 was active he completely lost him.

Its like I'm talking to a wall.....or rather, debating with a parrot.

That is proof that V2 Ay is faster than V1 Ay. That isn't proof that Ay got faster from when he fought Minato.

It sounds like you are still trying to argue this ridiculous, "He didn't have V2" point, even though V2 isn't a mode to obtain. Its Ay pumping more chakra into his Raiton Armor. Stop making it seem like its a mode that he trained to obtain or some shit like that.

Literally everything in this section of your post is addressed by the post you just replied to.

The Bijuu attacked Madara with the intent to kill but didn't use Bijuudama's.

Irrelevant. They attacked him with their fists, with intent to kill. Which means that they hit him with their full force, when it comes to physical attacks. Attacking with intent to kill doesn't mean you use your strongest attack, it means that you don't hold back in the attack you are delivering to the opponent.

 

[A v i]

Tobirama loses most likely.

 

[Haizaki]

That logic is incorrect buddy. If Naruto were to use a rasengan in km and someone dodged it his full speed km rasengan. Then he uses bm on another opponent and they dodged his rasengan and says they dodged it just the guy who dodged it before does that mean he didn't get any faster? No. He clearly activated his v2 the moment he got to the battlefield.(

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). His hair is clearly sticking up.

I don't get what you mean.
Lol nope.

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look at him here. That's "V1" .

 

[Haizaki]

Judge from his hair, V2 was activated

Not at all. Refer to my previous post to Hair jordan. It wasn't V2

 

[Varrah]

Tobirama wins with moderate difficult. ​

 

[Unorthodox]

1. I never stated Tobirama has comparable reactions to Juubito, I said his reactions are fast enough to let him react to Juubito's Shunshin. READ.
2. Hashirama's clone didn't react, it got torn apart and THEN it attacked. Tobirama tagged him before he got hit. Once again, READ.
3. Sasuke didn't react to Juubito's Shunshin. He reacted to Juubito's Gudo Dama attack, and then got blitzed by his Shunshin in THE VERY NEXT PAGE. Again, read the manga.
4. V1 Juubito>>>>Ay in speed. So it doesn't really matter what version it is.
5. The bold is completely irrelevant to the argument. Everything I stated about Juubito and Tobirama is a fact. Nothing you post will change that.

I agree with one and two however i never said Sasuke reacted to his shunshin i said he reacted to his striking speed witch he did also the distance he was when he blitz nardo & Sasuke was far closer then when he blitz the latter also if sasuke was edo and Obito would have just took half of his head he cast amaterasu can we say he reacted to v1 Juubito no because he would have died if he was alive.

Ei was confident however many people have been confident they can win i never said that about Ei he was confident with a double shunshin he would be to fast for Minato to react and to add to the fact instead of just warping to one of the kunai Minato warped to Killerbee basically hinted what Ei said had some type truth behind it. Tobirama lacks preped Kunai with a double shunshin he catches Tobirama off like he would have did minato to add the the fact that Tobirama has nothing to put him down with anyways.

 

[KidGamer65]

I agree with one and two however i never said Sasuke reacted to his shunshin i said he reacted to his striking speed witch he did

Even then, he didn't. He only reacted to the speed of the Gudo Dama extending toward Naruto. Not Juubito's physical striking speed.

also the distance he was when he blitz nardo & Sasuke was far closer then when he blitz the latter


also if sasuke was edo and Obito would have just took half of his head he cast amaterasu can we say he reacted to v1 Juubito no because he would have died if he was alive.

Lol? No. If Sasuke can't react to Juubito (Which the manga showed he couldn't at that point in time) he wouldn't be using Amaterasu or doing anything before half his head was blown off. If Sasuke cast Amaterasu before hand and hit Juubito, BEFORE, he lost half his head then yes he obviously did react.

Ei was confident however many people have been confident they can win i never said that about Ei he was confident with a double shunshin he would be to fast for Minato to react and to add to the fact instead of just warping to one of the kunai Minato warped to Killerbee basically hinted what Ei said had some type truth behind it

Double Shunshin? Ay only Shunshins once. His goal was to wait for Minato to teleport and then Shunshin to where he jumped to. It has nothing to do with him being too fast, he just isn't going to leave Minato any time to react.

Minato marked B so he could attack him, not to evade Ay.

Tobirama lacks preped Kunai with a double shunshin he catches Tobirama off like he would have did minato to add the the fact that Tobirama has nothing to put him down with anyways.

1. He doesn't need prepped Kunai. He has his sword and regular Kunai, both of which can be marked. And he's already fast enough to physically react to Juubito, so reacting to Ay is child's play. He spreads his Kunai and makes clones from 40m away, there goes Ay's plan since he can't find the real Tobirama to catch. Or he simply evades with Hiraishin. His plan isn't going to work from this far away since Tobirama can spread his marking farther than Minato was able to, and because Tobirama already reacted to someone much faster.

2. Multiple Suidanha hitting him at once breaches his armor.

 

[TRE MERCER]

Its like I'm talking to a wall.....or rather, debating with a parrot.

That is proof that V2 Ay is faster than V1 Ay. That isn't proof that Ay got faster from when he fought Minato.



Literally everything in this section of your post is addressed by the post you just replied to.



Irrelevant. They attacked him with their fists, with intent to kill. Which means that they hit him with their full force, when it comes to physical attacks. Attacking with intent to kill doesn't mean you use your strongest attack, it means that you don't hold back in the attack you are delivering to the opponent.

Regardless he never said he went full speed. He didn't have v2 when he fought Minato seeing as his Hair didn't get spiked up.

I don't get what you mean.
Lol nope.

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look at him here. That's "V1" .

This scan says otherwise though.(

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).

 

[Haizaki]

This scan says otherwise though.(

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).

Oh boy. This is V2

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. There's clear difference in that scan you posted.

This V1

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. Look properly before arguing. You can clearly see his hair and this was his state while fighting Madara.

 

[Team7monaa]

Well Water Style is a natural Conductor of Electricty and can enhance its power exponentially.so its pretty Dumb to Use against Ay.
and its probably dodged effortlesly.And Tobirama's lack of offensive moves means he can't Counter V2 barrage of kicks.
Ay Wins Med-Diff

 

[KidGamer65]

Regardless he never said he went full speed. He didn't have v2 when he fought Minato seeing as his Hair didn't get spiked up.

Already replied to this. His hair obviously can't spike up if his headband keeps it down.

V2 Shunshin=Ay's full speed. Its as simple as that.

 

[Kagustuchi]

Kishi retconned Kage Bunshin around when the Edo Hokages showed up. It no longer divided the entire pool of the user into equal pieces amonst the user and the Bunshin, but now divides up the amount of chakra that you put into the Jutsu among the Bunshin.

So if you put 20% of you chakra into the Jutsu and make 4 Bunshin, then you left with 80% of your chakra while the Bunshin have 5% each. They get weaker proportionally. That's why its slower using Hiriashin with Kage Bunshin.​

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