The Uchiha Massacre: Justification

[RedRobin]

It's obvious that Hiruzen was concerned little beyond his little group of friends that made up the council, and didn't let Tobirama's tolerance torch flicker even a little. The way he offered an innocent man's head following Hinata's kidnapping, didn't do anything for the Branch Family, and didn't life the age long surveillance and segregation on Uchiha Clan clearly shows his impartiality.

What a Hokage, this guy was.

Yeah he made some huge shitty decisions.

 

[shelke]

One thing I never understood: The villagers/konoha higher ups suspected the uchiha were behind the 9 tails incident? So if they were so suspicious, why not have the Yamanaka clan read their minds one by one to see if the did it. I mean, the Uchiha didn't do it, so it's not like they had anything to hide. Hiruzen was a brain dead fool, as was Itachi.

It's obvious that they never wanted to. They wanted Uchiha out of the council, never wanted to abolish Tobirama's supremely democratic and pro-Uchiha ideals, hence the tardiness from this group of fellas that go way back, like little troopers in Tobirama's Anti-Uchiha boy scout brigade.

 

[Conspirator.]

Well that would have been dangerous and would have roused up the Uchiha even more. It would have blatantly been saying we dont trust you. Also the Uchiha were planning a coup and Yamanaka would have found out.

I am talking about right after the massacre. The Uchiha only planned the coup a while after the Kyuubi's attack. Also,why wouldn't they want their names cleared? Konoha could have easily have done a deal like: "you let us read your minds, and then you will no longer be segregated from the village if you were innocent" Or something like that. But then again, the situation was stupid from all sides, but it needed to happen.(as the massacre is integral to Sasuké/Itachi's character development)

 

[Char Aznable]

Well that would have been dangerous and would have roused up the Uchiha even more. It would have blatantly been saying we dont trust you. Also the Uchiha were planning a coup and Yamanaka would have found out.

It could've been done after the attack. The Uchiha were placed in a "ghetto" (Nazi Germany kind) outside of the village as way to keep them under surveillance and away from the rest of the Konoha general population. The coup wasn't planned until years later after strife and ill feelings began to fester among the Uchiha due to poor treatment.

 

[closecombat1254]

Why are you all soo against the Uchiha?

We found out in the manga, they are like this because they were following the Uchiha Stone Tablet which Black Zetsu had altered to his own liking.

Also, IF it were the right thing to do. Why not just kill the uchiha shinobi? Why kill the normal citizens ....they didnt even know how to properly defend themselves let alone fight. Every village has its villagers and its shinobi. They are different separate entities. U_U

simply because if you kill a child father when that kid because a man he ain't going to take that

 

[BLAZE]

simply because if you kill a child father when that kid because a man he ain't going to take that

So what will u do murder the Child.
if so USSJ trunks threads feels right about itachi damaging fanboyz minds

 

[The Sach]

It was War between two oppsing forces.
War always leads to violence.
@bold:end result pandavas got doomed themself
Uchiha's were citizen of konaha.

But it would have broken out into civil war eventually and maybe into shinobi world war considering the immense powers Sharingan gives you, maybe some other village like mist would have tried to help Uchiha(don't forget Mizukage was under control of Obito).
I agree war/violence is never justifiable, but one has to go for war by concealing his feeling. It isn't easy to go for war or do massacre, even Itachi cried like a baby when he had to kill his parents. Wars/Massacre don't happen everyday, but when they happen both sides have to face the consequences, but isn't completely possible to 'avoid' them.
Talking about Pandawas, yes they finally suffered through the mental consequences, but that doesn't mean what they did was 'wrong'. They had to do it, because war is unavoidable sometimes and one has to fight for better future. In Hindu religon, even gods had to participate in the wars, even in Gita it is said that,

sva-dharmam api cāvekṣya
na vikampitum arhasi
dharmyād dhi yuddhāc chreyo 'nyat
kṣatriyasya na vidyate

'Considering your specific duty as a kṣatriya, you should know that there is no better engagement for you than fighting on religious principles; and so there is no need for hesitation.'
So war isn't solution, but it is unavoidable.

 

[babaGAReeb]

it was, the only bad thing bout it was that itachi let sasugay the biggest fággot of them all live

 

[shelke]

simply because if you kill a child father when that kid because a man he ain't going to take that

You're sick and mentally deluded then. You believe it's okay to slaughter innocent children and elderly just because of some political vendetta?

Itachi really is followed by a pack of loons, and not even the funny kind.

 

[BLAZE]

But it would have broken out into civil war eventually and maybe into shinobi world war considering the immense powers Sharingan gives you, maybe some other village like mist would have tried to help Uchiha(don't forget Mizukage was under control of Obito).
I agree war/violence is never justifiable, but one has to go for war by concealing his feeling. It isn't easy to go for war or do massacre, even Itachi cried like a baby when he had to kill his parents. Wars/Massacre don't happen everyday, but when they happen both sides have to face the consequences, but isn't completely possible to 'avoid' them.
Talking about Pandawas, yes they finally suffered through the mental consequences, but that doesn't mean what they did was 'wrong'. They had to do it, because war is unavoidable sometimes and one has to fight for better future. In Hindu religon, even gods had to participate in the wars, even in Gita it is said that,

'Considering your specific duty as a kṣatriya, you should know that there is no better engagement for you than fighting on religious principles; and so there is no need for hesitation.'
So war isn't solution, but it is unavoidable.

It was not War sach.It was coup with not everyone of the clan involved.
@bold i know but what am i saying is
War dosent decides or justifies who is right or wrong just decides what is left.
Geeta says perform ur duty without hesitation but nvr says if it is justified just perform what's needed as a warrior caste.
The situation here was segregate citizens and then when they try revolution Massacre them.
Also one of the reason for massacre here was Nationalist warhawk involved Q'ble actions against village and himself hid when pain attack konaha saying he will create new system in konaha.
Did he forgot the reasons Uchiha massacre took place

 

[Out Of Ctrl]

Yes it was. Otherwise it would've escalated to civil war in the Leaf and nearby villages would've taken advantage of the situation, ultimately leading to a full scale war between nearby villages. Meaning the loss of more lives.

 

[lucario14]

Personally I don't think what he did was right. Violence doesn't solve anything, only brings more hate. He even admitted that there could have been a better solution when he said

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to sasuke. I think he should have been honest with sasuke from the start and maybe, he could have convinced his dad to stop the revolt.

 

[Rustled]

They're planning a coup. so...

 

[BLAZE]

They're planning a coup. so...

Not all of them
just the police force

 

[Char Aznable]

Yes it was. Otherwise it would've escalated to civil war in the Leaf and nearby villages would've taken advantage of the situation, ultimately leading to a full scale war between nearby villages. Meaning the loss of more lives.

A couple dozen Uchiha (a small enough group that could fit in the underground hideout) vs the entire village filled with Hyuga, Abarame, Yamanaka, Sarutobi, Akamichi, Inuzuka, Shimura, Anbu squads, misc # of chunin + jonin ninja AND 2 Kage level ninja (Hiruzen and Danzo). There would've been no civil war. The united villagers would've stomped the Uchiha (and their low numbers) in a day. Just like they did during the Sound invasion. With how easily the Uchiha were killed by Itachi and Obito, I surmise the clan wasn't all that it was cracked up to be.

 

[closecombat1254]

So what will u do murder the Child.
if so USSJ trunks threads feels right about itachi damaging fanboyz minds

YES do u think he going to let my child live u maybe about to gamble with your family life I on the other hand will not

 

[BLAZE]

YES do u think he going to let my child live u maybe about to gamble with your family life I on the other hand will not

or maybe the system of ur region is itself damaged imo.
Cops kills a criminal now he will kill his son for his and his family's safety.
Damn not so hilarious scenario

 

[SIX PATHZ]

that was totally not fair.they just wanted to get rid of uchiha.thats all.

 

[Out Of Ctrl]

A couple dozen Uchiha (a small enough group that could fit in the underground hideout) vs the entire village filled with Hyuga, Abarame, Yamanaka, Sarutobi, Akamichi, Inuzuka, Shimura, Anbu squads, misc # of chunin + jonin ninja AND 2 Kage level ninja (Hiruzen and Danzo). There would've been no civil war. The united villagers would've stomped the Uchiha (and their low numbers) in a day. Just like they did during the Sound invasion. With how easily the Uchiha were killed by Itachi and Obito, I surmise the clan wasn't all that it was cracked up to be.

Its your word against the manga's, I'll take

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s words thanks. Now are you gonna question Shisui's intelligence as well?

 

[The Sach]

It was not War sach.It was coup with not everyone of the clan involved.

Even it wasn't one, it would have turned out into one. Mind you, last resort because I strongly believe that Hiruzen and Itachi made mistakes and took impulsive decisions, Itachi made mistake carrying burden on himself, Hiruzen while trying to understand the situation thoroughly. Yes they made mistakes, but even they would have done everything correct, even if Itachi would have told his parents and family the truth and they wouldn't have think about giving away the thought of Coup d'etat, then massacre was the only 'last' option.

@bold i know but what am i saying is
War dosent decides or justifies who is right or wrong just decides what is left.
Geeta says perform ur duty without hesitation but nvr says if it is justified just perform what's needed as a warrior caste.

I never said that war doesn't decide who is right or wrong, but war is sometimes unavoidable situation and one who participates in war can't be blamed. That was the point I wanted to make.=D
Geeta basically says do war to protect the people, basically Kshatirya/warrior cast has to do war when nothing else is possible.

The situation here was segregate citizens and then when they try revolution Massacre them.
Also one of the reason for massacre here was Nationalist warhawk involved Q'ble actions against village and himself hid when pain attack konaha saying he will create new system in konaha.
Did he forgot the reasons Uchiha massacre took place

They were segregate citizens, I agree and hence I even said that Hiruzen and Itachi made mistakes, and hence that this situation was unjustifiable. Hiruzen would have worked around the entire Danzo scenario and he made mistake. Talking about Danzo, yes he is to blame as well and maybe his nature was a reason due to which Tobirama didn't make Danzo third hokage.
It was Hiruzen's duty to know these traits of his friend and keep a close watch on his action, a department where third hokage failed.