Brother Numpsay
Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
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Before I begin, I just want to state that this threads purpose is to show how Tobirama can indeed face and rival against Madara. Even current Madara understood how powerful of a Shinobi Tobirama once was.
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So before reading I would ask that you come opened minded, and be reasonable. I stated this because some points that I might bring up may not have the exact feats to what I am explaining, but will be left with evidence to state being valid case. P.S. it will be concerning Tobirama Suiton feats, overall.
Conditions: I will be breaking down Madara's feats with no restrictions, and how Tobirama can deal with them. Meaning Madara can summon Kyuubi, and Tobirama can access his Edo Tensei. The conditions will not start off dealing with the characters best move, etc.
Kenjutsu Battle
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Not much needs to be said here as both of these characters were train in Kenjutsu/Weaponry Arts since childhood. Both of these character won't really have the edge until Tobirama starts using marking seals, combination, and better Shushin. Which of course Madara will rely on any Susanoo form to avoid the same fate as his brother.
Tobirama can the use his weapon to plant on the ground for later teleport used, since he will be marking his property [
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]Suiton: Art Of Reasoning
We need to use common sense and reasoning with Tobirama, "lacking the feats of large scale Suiton".
Instead of looking and waiting for feats, lets look at the evidence that shows this:
We have to look at Part 1 series first, where their first feats of Hokages were introduced:
All three Hokages ninjutsu's were on par with each other. What do I mean by this? In a sense of scaling. Example, Part 1[
Recent events showed Hiruzen using a "stream" of each element in a scale as such as Harashima's wood release comparison, from Part 1 to Part 2 series. Hiruzen signature Fire Dragon[
Hiruzen's Fire Dragon can be in the same scale as the Fire Stream presented recently? Even his Mud Wall[
The focus is Tobirama though, as he was already clashing evenly with Hiruzen's ninjutsu in part 1 series[
What Do We Know About Tobirama's Suiton Currently?
We need to use common sense and reasoning with Tobirama, "lacking the feats of large scale Suiton".
Instead of looking and waiting for feats, lets look at the evidence that shows this:
We have to look at Part 1 series first, where their first feats of Hokages were introduced:
All three Hokages ninjutsu's were on par with each other. What do I mean by this? In a sense of scaling. Example, Part 1[
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] Harashima's Wood Release was overwhelming as it was in a Part 2 scaling[
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]. So even series it had the same purpose of overwhelming the opponent but in a different scale.Recent events showed Hiruzen using a "stream" of each element in a scale as such as Harashima's wood release comparison, from Part 1 to Part 2 series. Hiruzen signature Fire Dragon[
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] to a generic fire release (in large scaling)[
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].Hiruzen's Fire Dragon can be in the same scale as the Fire Stream presented recently? Even his Mud Wall[
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] being a scale to reach "part 2" heights of Wood Release, as it did in Part 1.The focus is Tobirama though, as he was already clashing evenly with Hiruzen's ninjutsu in part 1 series[
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][
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][
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]. Since Tobirama stated in Part 2 that he is near full power, and the fact Edo Hiruzen give him the feat body to use such jutsu that he couldn't perform in Part 1, concludes. Tobirama Suiton scaling should at least be on par with what Hiruzen presented.
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What Do We Know About Tobirama's Suiton Currently?
Well first, what DO we know about Tobirama's Suiton?
Tobirama is the only character that displayed using Suiton to extreme high pressure water[
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]. Science shows that, it can naturally cut steel itself, and of course a fictional version, made of chakra would be more deadly.Madara didn't even have time to absorb his pressurized water jutsu, that he even relied on his special defense, Susanoo[
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][
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].Kishimoto explained in his databook that Tobirama was hyped to be very skilled at Suiton, even more so than FTG or edo tensei. We are all well aware of the fact that His FTG and Edo tensei use are pretty good, Judging by this, we can safely say that He is quite Skilled in suiton:
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Suiton VS. Katon
Again it comes down to rationalizing Tobirama's Suiton. We know:
1. Tobirama scaling should be on Par to Hiruzen.
2. Tobirama is the best Suiton user for pressure force.
He will pretty much counter exactly how he counter Hiruzen's Katon.Step[
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] Wall of Water and Step[
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] Overwhelm Katon user.Once Tobirama knocks out Madara like this, it gives one of the openings of marking Madara, due to his vulnerable state.
Suiton VS. Susanoo
This section is specifically explaining what Tobirama can do to deal with Susanoo
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,
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, and
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.And Suiton will be enough. Tobirama Suiton has no way to damage Susanoo from here. But that is not important, nor is it the only option:
Susanoo is indeed a powerful defense and it will take a alot of damage do even start denting. But they're other ways around it.
Instead of attempting to completely break the defense, one can use concussive damage to remove it.
The manga has shown this countless of times and I will show it all.
1.) Ay+Onoki combo enable them to built enough speed force and power to break the back bone of V2 Susanoo[You must be registered for see links]. Not only did it did such damage, it send Madara flying[You must be registered for see links]. Once crash, you have notice Madara temporary had Susanoo removed (off screen but Madara was out of commission when the Kages had a full conversation with Naruto)
2.) Tsunade, Mei, and Ay+Onoki[You must be registered for see links] combo KO'd Madara until a wall. Once smacked on the wall Ribcaged was removed[You must be registered for see links].
3.) Kabuto used Water Release on Sasuke. The Water Jutsu's concussive force removed Ribcage[You must be registered for see links]
4.) Guy backstabs Madara with Hirudora, the air pressure damage had Madara out of commission[You must be registered for see links]. We know this off screen, due to Hachibi's comment of Mokuton losing its grip[You must be registered for see links], thus the chakra on Wood wasn't focused anymore to do its job. (This can be a case of Mokuton users too)
5.) Continuous Wood punches from the face[You must be registered for see links] had PS Sussanoo removed from Kyuubi[You must be registered for see links].
All it takes is a jutsu and the right physical attack to do it.
Reasons why Tobirama can succeed in concussive damage
1. Can produce high scale Suiton
2. Tobirama Suiton focuses on extreme pressure, thus more concussive force can apply.
This is another option of marking Madara by taking advantage of him vulnerable.
VS. Kuchiyose: Kurama
Once Kurama is out, Tobirama can win purely though strategy then fighting as a powerhouse. But of course using Edo Tensei Tactic is as devastating as summoning Kurama himself. It was stated by Madara himself.
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Kurama being a big target will easily get tag too, but Madara will not let the happen. Kurama will wear Perfect Susanoo, leaving him indestructible.
With Edo fodder support and Bushin, Tobirama's strategy will be simple.
If Madara decides to slash Tobirama[
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]. Tobirama can either warp away or have a Bushin sacrifice himself[
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]. Meaning before the Bushin gets cut down, it can slap a tag on PS sword[
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]. Once set, Tobirama can use Edo's and Bushins for destination and redirecting attacks.Like TBB, that he canonically stated of countering:
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From there he can drop it right back to PS Kurama[
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][
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], no matter the size.
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Continuous bombs will be dodged out of range with Tobirama's speed and transportation. Tobirama's Sensing amps his reaction, and the effects with his speed, making him the fastest Shinobi in his time
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To end this off is to warp Edo right next to Kurama, setting off Gojo Kibaku Fuda
Gojo Kibaku Fuda is actually in the same height as PS and Wood God.
Summons compare to Juubi Minion[
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]Juubi Minion compare to Wood God and PS[
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]Gojo Kibaku Fuda compare to Juubi Minion[
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]Of course Gojo Kibaku Fuda won't be able to destroy PS, but my premise has always been showing how concussive force can stripe Susanoo away. Gojo Kibaku Fuda continuous explosive force will do the job of removing Susanoo[
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].Once remove Tobirama can either warp Kurama away from Madara, out of commission. Considering he had the chakra to warp two Kurama's[
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].From there Tobirama can end it, after countering all of Madara jutsu, with a FTG slash
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-Credits goes to Penguin. and KingFlawz For Some Info Gathered-
