[Discussion] What Level are they?

[Frikid]

Whitebeard used to go toe to toe with Roger and the man closest to one piece.
Whitebeard's age is what made him weaker.

So i think he was considered "the strongest man" immediately after roger died and no one came and challenged him and successfully took away his title.
Basically, WB after roger's death was strongest man.

 

[jiraiya lives]

1. Weaker than shanks/on par with or slightly weaker than Kiadou

2. weaker than Luffy/stronger than sanji

 

[nasuke242]

Luffy's probably barely stronger than zoro

 

[MickNerks]

Hmm. Interesting responses. Cant wait to see dragon fight, because I feel as though he may be beyond yonko level.

 

[Olorin]

I'm gauging his strength based on what we know. No doubt after Dressrosa, Luffy and Zoro will be atleast above current Vergo and stronger than the Mid Vice-admirals are now but the High Vice-admirals aren't just sitting around eating chips. They're becoming stronger aswell.

Law oneshotting Vergo can't really be used to gauge Vergo's strength. Law's DF is hax and anyone without strong enough Haki gets oneshotted. Luffy and Zoro included. It's not like Luffy can oneshot Vergo with jet pistol.

Currently Luffy can probably beat Vergo. Zoro is still debatable but by the end of this arc they'll both be able to beat Vergo. We haven't seen what they're capable of but from what we've seen i'm not putting them above the likes of Onigumo.

Also, you have to take into account that Vergo was Dofla's right hand man. People are underrestimating him because he lost to Law and Smoker being the stepping stone that he is makes people think that all the VA's are as weak as him.

so basically Zoro and Luffy are weak now but after Dressrosa once we see what they can do they will be stronger, no major powerup it's just that now they are weak because we haven't seen them? that makes no sense at all

by that logic Roger is one of the weakest character now but once we see him in action he will become stronger than them

lol

PS Luffy is probably stronger than Law

 

[Hijey]

1) He's on the same level as the other top tiers such as the Admirals. Now that Whitebeard is dead, I think Dragon is the strongest person.

2) I think Luffy and Zoro are equally strong right now.

 

[Fireplay]

so basically Zoro and Luffy are weak now but after Dressrosa once we see what they can do they will be stronger, no major powerup it's just that now they are weak because we haven't seen them? that makes no sense at all

by that logic Roger is one of the weakest character now but once we see him in action he will become stronger than them

lol

PS Luffy is probably stronger than Law

No. Because we haven't seen what Luffy and Zoro are capable of doing we can't say that they're stronger than someone who has shown that he's stronger than what Luffy and Zoro have shown at this point. After this arc when we see what they can do they might or might not turn out to be stronger than Vergo/Mid-high VA's.

 

[Olorin]

No. Because we haven't seen what Luffy and Zoro are capable of doing we can't say that they're stronger than someone who has shown that he's stronger than what Luffy and Zoro have shown at this point. After this arc when we see what they can do they might or might not turn out to be stronger than Vergo/Mid-high VA's.

so at this point in time Vergo is stronger than Roger?

 

[Fireplay]

so at this point in time Vergo is stronger than Roger?

No. Roger has hype. When did Luffy or Zoro match WB? When did Luffy or Zoro match Garp?

Ohh wow...Zoro beat Hody.

 

[Olorin]

No. Roger has hype. When did Luffy or Zoro match WB? When did Luffy or Zoro match Garp?

Ohh wow...Zoro beat Hody.

No you are right after the ts they have absolutely no hype (sarcasm)

 

[Fireplay]

No you are right after the ts they have absolutely no hype (sarcasm)

Elaborate. What hype do they have exactly?

 

[Olorin]

Elaborate. What hype do they have exactly?

Luffy and his HH, Luffys new techs, Luffy 1 shotting ceasar, them 1 shotting a Pacifista, Zoro toying with Monet, Luffy v Chinjao, ... They were already beasting and they haven't gone even remotely all out

But by faaaaaar the biggest hype for them is that one of the, trained with Rayleigh and another one with Mihawk

 

[Fireplay]

Luffy and his HH, Luffys new techs, Luffy 1 shotting ceasar, them 1 shotting a Pacifista, Zoro toying with Monet, Luffy v Chinjao, ... They were already beasting and they haven't gone even remotely all out

But by faaaaaar the biggest hype for them is that one of the, trained with Rayleigh and another one with Mihawk

All of those "hypes" aren't really "hypes" that put them above Mid-high VA's or Vergo. Considering that those feats can be pulled off by most high-tiers including Vergo. Lol...oneshotting a pacifista...oneshotting Caesar etc. Casual high-tier feats.

Your actually comparing those to all the hype that Roger has?

Coby and Helmeppo trained with Garp yet Coby>>>>Helmeppo. Doesn't matter who you train with. The strength of someone has nothing to do with their teaching skills or the learning skills of their students.

Luffy was trained by Garp (PK level legend) for 10 years...
Zoro trained in a dojo with some fodder teacher who would get oneshotted by him at this point yet Zoro is on Luffy's level.

Real hype: Whitebeard was able to match the strongest Pirate in the whole world (no one in the world has come close except for Garp)

Bootleg hype: Luffy beat someone who is past his prime and has lost his powers (this feat can be performed by many people)

It's like pitting Zoro against an old swordless Mihawk

 

[Desmodus]

I find Zoro weaker than Luffy, but only by a small margin. That being said, Luffy is stronger.

Concerning Dragon, it is possible that he has the biggest bounty of them all, but I don´t believe he is the strongest right now. He might be in the top 5 or even top 3, but for me, he hasn´t shown anything to topple Shanks, who is currently my number one.

 

[Olorin]

All of those "hypes" aren't really "hypes" that put them above Mid-high VA's or Vergo. Considering that those feats can be pulled off by most high-tiers including Vergo. Lol...oneshotting a pacifista...oneshotting Caesar etc. Casual high-tier feats.

Your actually comparing those to all the hype that Roger has?

Coby and Helmeppo trained with Garp yet Coby>>>>Helmeppo. Doesn't matter who you train with. The strength of someone has nothing to do with their teaching skills or the learning skills of their students.

Luffy was trained by Garp (PK level legend) for 10 years...
Zoro trained in a dojo with some fodder teacher who would get oneshotted by him at this point yet Zoro is on Luffy's level.

Real hype: Whitebeard was able to match the strongest Pirate in the whole world (no one in the world has come close except for Garp)

Bootleg hype: Luffy beat someone who is past his prime and has lost his powers (this feat can be performed by many people)

It's like pitting Zoro against an old swordless Mihawk

Okay if you say so, not like most ppl were impressed by what they did, I men ofc they must be just fodder they have almost no hype

Not like there is such a thing as logic which you can apply to the series and its content to make a logical assumption, but if you say they are weak than they must be weak, I mean we havent seen Kid do anything so he is probably still weaker than a Pacifista ... Makes perfect sense

 

[Fireplay]

Okay if you say so, not like most ppl were impressed by what they did, I men ofc they must be just fodder they have almost no hype

Not like there is such a thing as logic which you can apply to the series and its content to make a logical assumption, but if you say they are weak than they must be weak, I mean we havent seen Kid do anything so he is probably still weaker than a Pacifista ... Makes perfect sense

I never said anything about Kid not to mention saying that Kid is weaker than a pacifista is illogical. Dude...Nuff with the sarcasm. Sanji has shown that he's miles above a pacifista so by powerscaling and logic Luffy, Kid and everyone above Sanji is aswell. Zoro hasn't shown jack that puts him above Vergo or high VA's. His "hype" is the hype of a high-tier.

What Luffy and Zoro have done can be done by Law, Kid, Vergo, Sanji etc. What Whitebeard has done to earn his hype (match WB) can only be pulled off by Garp.

^The difference in their hype.

 

[Olorin]

I never said anything about Kid not to mention saying that Kid is weaker than a pacifista is illogical. Dude...Nuff with the sarcasm. Sanji has shown that he's miles above a pacifista so by powerscaling and logic Luffy, Kid and everyone above Sanji is aswell. Zoro hasn't shown jack that puts him above Vergo or high VA's. His "hype" is the hype of a high-tier.

What Luffy and Zoro have done can be done by Law, Kid, Vergo, Sanji etc. What Whitebeard has done to earn his hype (match WB) can only be pulled off by Garp.

^The difference in their hype.

First of all, no way, I went full Chandler mode, sarcasm FTW

Second, the logic you say you can apply to Kidd you can also apply to Luffy and Zoro, a pretty f'd up Law 1shot Vergo and it is not unreasonable to assume that Luffy is>=Law and since Zoro is almost equal to Luffy ... Get my point yet?

But hey maybe Im wrong and we can assume the strength of someone we have harly seen post TS (Kid) but it is certainly not possibe to assume the strength of the 2 main characters

I will now apply your logic to the Yonko,
1. Kaido ... We know exactly nothing about him therefore < Usopp
2. BM ... The same therefore < Chopper
3. Shanks, yea he had daily diels with Mihawk and stopped the war but Mihawk is kinda featless so mihawk and Shanks < Pappug ... You know what strike that that is probably true I meant < Buggy ... But that could be true as well, I'll just play safe and say mister 3

 

[Fireplay]

First of all, no way, I went full Chandler mode, sarcasm FTW

Second, the logic you say you can apply to Kidd you can also apply to Luffy and Zoro, a pretty f'd up Law 1shot Vergo and it is not unreasonable to assume that Luffy is>=Law and since Zoro is almost equal to Luffy ... Get my point yet?

It doesn't work like that because of Law's hax DF. Law's DF can oneshot both Luffy and Zoro. It is a cheat code. Neither Luffy nor Zoro can oneshot arms Vergo but Law has a power that allows him to do such things. Just because Law used cheat codes to oneshot Vergo doesn't mean omgsauce Law>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Vergo.

Same applies to someone like Kuma. Just because Kuma has a hax DF that can be used to oneshot Whitebeard (send him on a trip) doesn't mean that Kuma>>>>>>>>>Whitebeard.

 

[Olorin]

It doesn't work like that because of Law's hax DF. Law's DF can oneshot both Luffy and Zoro. It is a cheat code. Neither Luffy nor Zoro can oneshot arms Vergo but Law has a power that allows him to do such things. Just because Law used cheat codes to oneshot Vergo doesn't mean omgsauce Law>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Vergo.

Same applies to someone like Kuma. Just because Kuma has a hax DF that can be used to oneshot Whitebeard (send him on a trip) doesn't mean that Kuma>>>>>>>>>Whitebeard.

I very much doubt Kuma can send WB flying

Also so we shouldnt count Laws DF as part of his power? Is that what you are saying? He has almost literally shown nothing else as far as power is concerned. Luffy wouldnt one shot it no because his power is different but I am prepared to bet he could do away with Vergo just as easily as Law because Luffy is imo stronger than Law

Every DF can be countered, Law wouldn't be able to 1 shot Luffy, Luffy would actually probably win this

 

[Fireplay]

I very much doubt Kuma can send WB flying

Also so we shouldnt count Laws DF as part of his power? Is that what you are saying? He has almost literally shown nothing else as far as power is concerned. Luffy wouldnt one shot it no because his power is different but I am prepared to bet he could do away with Vergo just as easily as Law because Luffy is imo stronger than Law

Every DF can be countered, Law wouldn't be able to 1 shot Luffy, Luffy would actually probably win this

Why couldn't Kuma send WB flying? If WB stands there then Kuma can send him flying thus oneshotting him. Luffy can't oneshot him even if he was asleep.

And no my point isn't that we shouldn't count Law's DF as his power. My point is that we can't use Law's DF feats to powerscale/compare how other people on his level would fare off against Vergo based on what we saw Law do since Law's DF allows him to beat you in one slice. Same as in Naruto. Just because Sasuke's amaterasu and Kakashi's Kamui can oneshot Hashirama doesn't mean someone as strong as them can do the same.

I'll try to make myself clear this time...

Itachi oneshots Nagato with Totsuka blade Low-diff

Does this mean that everyone on Itachi's level (Kisame, Jiraiya etc.) can oneshot Nagato or beat him Low-diff?

No. Itachi has the Totsuka blade which is a oneshot move therefore you can't use it to powerscale the strength of other characters in his tier since they don't have the Totsuka blade.

If Luffy stands there Law can oneshot him
If Whitebeard stands there Law can oneshot him
If Whitebeard stands there Luffy can't oneshot him since he doesn't have anything that could put him down. Law's abilities ignore durability.