So, WHO can beat Orange Mask Tobi? (Full intel, no prep time)

[KidGamer65]

OT: Hashirama, Madara, Naruto, and Minato are the only ones who beat MS Obito (I may be forgetting some) lol @ anyone who thinks Kakashi wins...

Fuuton + Katon >>> any Katon.

Who said this Katon is hotter than any other Katon? It's bigger, yeah, but no where does it state it's hotter. Suiton can easily counter it. Also, it'd be illogical for him to use a Juubi sized Katon against Kakashi when it's only him, add the fact that it spreads over range, something that won't be possible in CQC.

How do you sound right now? A Juubi sized Katon is going to be put out by one smaller than Bijuu sized Suiton? Please tell me you aren't serious right now.

lol, what? Futon is eaten up by Katon and then the Katon gets bigger, that's a fact. Adding Wind makes it bigger, not hotter. That's how Katon's strength is determined, size. Obito's is much bigger so its much stronger. To even say Kakuzu's is stronger is completely ridiculous.

 

[Prince Charles]

Funny thing is takos saids this in reply to AC.

''The same way we don't assume Kakashi knows FTG.''

Post #14 :|

 

[Takos]

oh god.. I am seriously having a hard time taking you seriously here

I know this struggle, bro. Having it right now.

all you are doing is assuming that there is earth in kamui world just because air exist.. that is a petty argument at best, you have no other proof or support to back up your claim,

Nope. If you read carefully, you'd see I wrote there MIGHT be earth there for all we know and there is, BR argument becomes useless.
While if there is NOT, then there are still all the other arguments BR-defenders have to deal with.

but I do which is the manga which clearly has shown no earth substance in there.

You do realize though, that doton can be used with rock as well? I also included rock material under the umbrella of "air".

Obito's Juubi sized katon>>> Kakuzu's katon

In terms of range, but what proof do you have it's hotter? None. You assume so. An assumption even worse than my suggested possibility of there being earth in Kamuiland, because it is logical for a flame dissipated in a larger region to be weaker, not stronger.

, it being mixed with air is not important here, he managed to slow it down but he isnt pulling off that same feat against a much larger katon.

Actually, as I said, pulling off the same feat against a larger katon may be easier.

 

[Draphsin]

Funny thing is takos saids this in reply to AC.

''The same way we don't assume Kakashi knows FTG.''

Post #14 :|

Lol yet he assumes that there is earth in kamuiland

 

[Prince Charles]

Rofl not even worth writing a reply to Takos :yeah:

-Prince out

 

[KidGamer65]

Are people really trying to argue that Kakashi's Suiton can put out Obito's Bakufu Rambu? His Juubi sized Katon? :|

 

[Takos]

And prove that the kamui actually increases the size of his katon, because from what is shown the katon he used with madara had the same volume as his. Yet the smaller BR was shown to be hollow. Kamui simply alters the shape of the jutsu, you need more chakra in order to increase the size so logically using kamui to enhance it would make it even smaller (utilizing two jutsus simultaneously).

Obviously Kamui increases the size - that's how it is used. Obito warps the air from Kamui dimension out to give his katon proper speed.
Obito also used Kamui for BR against SA - you can confirm it by looking at its shape. You can't say if its volume is filled or if it's hollow, however, because of the view at this panel, which is from the side.

So yes - Obito DOES need Kamui for BR.

yet he assumes that there is earth in kamuiland

I don't take it for granted, but rather affirm it as a possibility. Reading comprehension, mates.

Anyway, Kakashi's fight against Obito would end like this (but with Raikiri):

Spoiler

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or like this:

Spoiler

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or like this:

Spoiler

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or, most probably, like this:

Spoiler

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And guess what - that's actually how their fight did end in the manga.

Guess some people just can't get over it.

 

[Draphsin]

Obviously Kamui increases the size - that's how it is used. Obito warps the air from Kamui dimension out to give his katon proper speed.

Wrong, look at obito's hollow BR, it has no middle bit unlike the one he used against madara which did.

Kamui changes the shape, it doesnt "add" anything but rather controls the fire.

Obito also used Kamui for BR against SA - you can confirm it by looking at its shape. You can't say if it's volume is filled or if it's hollow, however, because of the view at this panel, which is from the side.

I never said he didnt, however I did say that it's not hollow & you would have to be blind to disagree.

Its a little thing I call protrusion, the front of obito's katon is protruding out like a dome, while if it were hollow it would have a flat front, no protrusion. [

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]. & to add, the BR obito used against kakashi was in a line & was coiled around like a spiral.[

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]. This BR is not, it's simply the fire being twisted, its not moving in a spiral like the first one.

So yes - Obito DOES need Kamui for BR.

So no - you're assuming again..

I don't take it for granted, but rather affirm it as a possibility. Reading comprehension, mates.

Anyway, Kakashi's fight against Obito would end like this (but with Raikiri):

Spoiler

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or like this:

Spoiler

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or like this:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

or, most probably, like this:

Spoiler

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And guess what - that's actually how their fight did end in the manga.

Guess some people just can't get over it.

Completely useless, everything about this post is garbage & irrelevant u_u

 

[KCMNaruto]

Hashirama, EMS Madara, BSM Naruto, BM Naruto EMS Sasuke, DSM Kabuto beat him.

If edo are included then Tobirama, BM Minato can beat him also.

I can post my reasons if needed

 

[Touken]

OT: Hashirama, Madara, Naruto, and Minato are the only ones who beat MS Obito (I may be forgetting some) lol @ anyone who thinks Kakashi wins...



How do you sound right now? A Juubi sized Katon is going to be put out by one smaller than Bijuu sized Suiton? Please tell me you aren't serious right now.

lol, what? Futon is eaten up by Katon and then the Katon gets bigger, that's a fact. Adding Wind makes it bigger, not hotter. That's how Katon's strength is determined, size. Obito's is much bigger so its much stronger. To even say Kakuzu's is stronger is completely ridiculous.

Because oxygen is needed for combustion and wind delivers loads of it. Fast winds feed the fire more ferociously causing tremendous heat and thus causing destructive power. Kakashi doesn't need to equal Obito's Katon since Suiton naturally extinguishes the fire, although I'm not saying weak Suiton can counter it, but Kakashi has shown A rank Suiton techs such as Great Waterfall Technique; he can provide enough Suiton to counter Obito's Katon.

 

[Draphsin]

Because oxygen is needed for combustion and wind delivers loads of it. Fast winds feed the fire more ferociously causing tremendous heat and thus causing destructive power. Kakashi doesn't need to equal Obito's Katon since Suiton naturally extinguishes the fire, although I'm not saying weak Suiton can counter it, but Kakashi has shown A rank Suiton techs such as Great Waterfall Technique; he can provide enough Suiton to counter Obito's Katon.

Bold is false, water only, I repeat ONLY extinguishes fire if there is more water than fire.. Its not the water that puts it out but rather the suffocation of the flame. If the water isnt large enough then the fire isnt being affected

 

[Takos]

Wrong, look at obito's hollow BR, it has no middle bit unlike the one he used against madara which did.

Kamui changes the shape, it doesnt "add" anything but rather controls the fire.

You can't say that BR against SA wasn't hollow, when you don't see it from the front, just from the sideview. :|
And seeing how it had a swirling shape it's rather obvious Kamui was used to enhance it this time, too.

I never said he didnt, however I did say that it's not hollow & you would have to be blind to disagree.

Wait, if you're agreeing that Obito DOES use Kamui for BR, then what exactly are we arguing about?
My point is that Obito might not be able to use BR in Kamui dimension at all, because the main point of the technique is using Kamui to enhance it.

Its a little thing I call protrusion, the front of obito's katon is protruding out like a dome, while if it were hollow it would have a flat front, no protrusion. [

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]. & to add, the BR obito used against kakashi was in a line & was coiled around like a spiral.[

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]. This BR is not, it's simply the fire being twisted, its not moving in a spiral like the first one.

It is moving in a spiral, it's just that the rings are closer to each other (or actually, they look like it, because we see a much larger area than when we saw BR against Kakashi and Guy, so what looked like big breaks between the rings earlier now doesn't).

Anyway - moving in a spiral, or in a "twirling" pattern as you call it - it makes no difference. Without Kamui there would be nothing to make BR have this pattern.

 

[Touken]

Bold is false, water only, I repeat ONLY extinguishes fire if there is more water than fire.. Its not the water that puts it out but rather the suffocation of the flame. If the water isnt large enough then the fire isnt being affected

His Suiton is going to act as a barrier anyway, it's not going to get to the size of the Juubi. The only reason it did was because there was absolutely nothing stopping his or Madara's Katon. He's not going to wait for it to get to that size and then use Suiton, that's silly.

 

[Draphsin]

His Suiton is going to act as a barrier anyway, it's not going to get to the size of the Juubi. The only reason it did was because there was absolutely nothing stopping his or Madara's Katon. He's not going to wait for it to get to that size and then use Suiton, that's silly.

No it wont, you can't block the way fire moves, it is a gas & it will take up any shape, sure the suiton will block the front but in no way is it blocking the sides & back of him. The kcm cloak protected the people, not the area around those people.

Furthermore, if kakashi were to create a "dome" of water, then he's trapping himself, the water will evaporate & drain kakashi's chakra in the proccess, thereby burning him to a crisp.

 

[Strict]

Kakashi putting down Obito, who has Kamui as well, along with Mokuton and Izanagi? Nope. Kakashi would already run out of Chakra before Obito's first Izanagi was gone. lol.

 

[Takos]

Kakashi putting down Obito, who has Kamui as well, along with Mokuton and Izanagi? Nope. Kakashi would already run out of Chakra before Obito's first Izanagi was gone. lol.

Obvious troll is obvious.

 

[Touken]

No it wont, you can't block the way fire moves, it is a gas & it will take up any shape, sure the suiton will block the front but in no way is it blocking the sides & back of him. The kcm cloak protected the people, not the area around those people.

Furthermore, if kakashi were to create a "dome" of water, then he's trapping himself, the water will evaporate & drain kakashi's chakra in the proccess, thereby burning him to a crisp.

Notice the way it's expelled from Obito/Madara's mouth. It spreads as the distance increases in both length and width so it wouldn't be able to get to the side/back of him if he uses a Suiton wall.

 

[NagatoSolos]

Problem 2:
Based on all the manga knowledge, Bakufu Ranbu becomes jubi-sized only after flying a long way (see the panel in which Obito and Madara used their katons on SA), making it useless short range. This is confirmed by the fact that when Obito used the same technique against Kakashi and Guy (the distance was much shorter), the flame was MUCH smaller. Another confirmation of this is Obito resorting to a normal fireball against Kakashi when they fought close to mid distance.

Wrong .


The Katon Obito used back then was Bakufuu Ranma . [

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] . While the other big one was Bakufuu Ranbu . [

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] [[URL="http://img.***********.to/manga/naruto/628/Naruto%20-%20628%20-%20Here,%20And%20From%20Now%20On%20-%20007.png]X[/URL]]

 

[Strict]

It's obvious. Kakashi's and Obito's Kamui are countering each other. One's Kamui is useless against the other.

Kakashi's poor stamina was proven several times. He can do quite some Jutsu, but still reaches his limit relatively fast. Not so Obito, who can do a whole war without running out of Chakra.

As we know that both Kamui are countering each other, activating Izanagi, which will run for ten minutes, will devastate Kakashi. Spamming huge Katon blasts, Mokuton techniques, huge Shuriken and Kunai (through Kamui), etc. while enjoying complete immortality, will put Kakashi to his limit pretty quick.

Fact. Kakashi would never beat Obito. He can't survive Izanagi.

 

[KidGamer65]

Because oxygen is needed for combustion and wind delivers loads of it. Fast winds feed the fire more ferociously causing tremendous heat and thus causing destructive power. Kakashi doesn't need to equal Obito's Katon since Suiton naturally extinguishes the fire, although I'm not saying weak Suiton can counter it, but Kakashi has shown A rank Suiton techs such as Great Waterfall Technique; he can provide enough Suiton to counter Obito's Katon.

Manga and real life definitely disagrees.

-Go put a drop of water on a campfire, its not going to be put out.

-1 of their Suiton wasn't enough to put out Gouka Mekkyaku, so they had to combine. [

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]

Any suiton from Kakashi is evaporated with ease and he dies.