[Deductions] Why Hiashi Hyuuga > Itachi Uchiha

[fastrthnwind]

doesnt itachi have genjutsu that effects you through other senses besides sight.
idk i think itachi wins low diff

Only KA and Izanami are exempt from the requirement of affecting sensory perception, 1 he does not have, the other can only be used in special circumstances.

Because of this, he cannot use these techniques on Hiashi.

 

[iEspada]

The uchihas were canonically the strongest with the senju. Hyuugas are fodder.

 

[Strict]

Izanami is a Genjutsu that has the same effect on all individuals. How you will act inside Izanami will decide whether you will escape. There is no reason why Hiashi would escape. Izanami has the characteristics of a normal Genjutsu, and once you're caught in Genjutsu, you automatically intend to escape it. Even if Hiashi had knowledge on Izanami, he actually can't distinguish it from other Genjutsu, hence he will not know when Itachi decides to use Izanagi or whether he is going to use it. Once Hiashi was caught in Izanami, Itachi will need seconds to kill him. Like he opened Kabuto's eyes to use Tsukuyomi while latter was already under the affect of Izanami, here, he can just take out a Kunai and slice his throat. You could say that Izanami theoretically works in special circumstances, practically Kabuto fully fell for it.

There is also no reason other Genjutsu wouldn't work. It's a difference to detect that another person is influenced by Genjutsu based on the Chakra flow, which is seen by Doujutsu, or if you are the one who is caught within a Genjutsu, which works by controlling manipulating the flow of Chakra in your brain. Doujutsu users are not protected from Genjutsu either, past uncovered that their senses are affected as well. But while the Sharingan has the specific ability of seeing through all (visual) Genjutsu, Byakugan has nothing like that when it comes to handling the illusion you were put inside.

Conclusion? Tsukuyomi would end the battle as well. Not only because Hiashi lacks the ability of the Sharingan, but also because it was stated that only those with Uchiha blood can break it.

The thing with Susanoo, well, it is nothing but ridiculous. An incomplete stage of Susanoo already proved enough foothold to stay at its place while under the affect of Baku's suction; even when it took Danzo' dramatically increased Fuuton from the other side. Air Wall Palm won't do shit to Susanoo.

The ridiculousness of this post lies in the same phrases as it lies always by those who underestimate Itachi:

Given that Byakugan allows the user to see the targets chakra as proven previous, Hiashi will know that Itachi doesn't have large reserves of chakra. While countering Amaterasu and once Ssuano'O comes out, he will see the huge chunks of chakra coming out of Itachi's low stamina and will know that its best to allow Itachi to seal his own fate!

Ultimately, people will always restrict Itachi to his stamina or the opponents knowledge of Genjutsu, believing in such grotesque victories like effectively outlasting Itachi's poor stamina or fight while avoiding any for Genjutsu necessary visual contact. That appears to be their only straw they can clutch at, because there is no other way to effectively counter all of Itachi's powers for most Shinobi. These are the moments where such theories are shattered.

A debate isn't needed, because any person who is familiar with the Manga and the abilities of these two combatants, will know that Itachi will beat Hiashi without hesitating.

 

[fastrthnwind]

Izanami is a Genjutsu that has the same effect on all individuals. How you will act inside Izanami will decide whether you will escape. There is no reason why Hiashi would escape. Izanami has the characteristics of a normal Genjutsu, and once you're caught in Genjutsu, you automatically intend to escape it. Even if Hiashi had knowledge on Izanami, he actually can't distinguish it from other Genjutsu, hence he will not know when Itachi decides to use Izanagi or whether he is going to use it. Once Hiashi was caught in Izanami, Itachi will need seconds to kill him. Like he opened Kabuto's eyes to use Tsukuyomi while latter was already under the affect of Izanami, here, he can just take out a Kunai and slice his throat. You could say that Izanami theoretically works in special circumstances, practically Kabuto fully fell for it.

There is also no reason other Genjutsu wouldn't work. It's a difference to detect that another person is influenced by Genjutsu based on the Chakra flow, which is seen by Doujutsu, or if you are the one who is caught within a Genjutsu, which works by controlling manipulating the flow of Chakra in your brain. Doujutsu users are not protected from Genjutsu either, past uncovered that their senses are affected as well. But while the Sharingan has the specific ability of seeing through all (visual) Genjutsu, Byakugan has nothing like that when it comes to handling the illusion you were put inside.

Conclusion? Tsukuyomi would end the battle as well. Not only because Hiashi lacks the ability of the Sharingan, but also because it was stated that only those with Uchiha blood can break it.

The thing with Susanoo, well, it is nothing but ridiculous. An incomplete stage of Susanoo already proved enough foothold to stay at its place while under the affect of Baku's suction; even when it took Danzo' dramatically increased Fuuton from the other side. Air Wall Palm won't do shit to Susanoo.

The ridiculousness of this post lies in the same phrases as it lies always by those who underestimate Itachi:



Ultimately, people will always restrict Itachi to his stamina or the opponents knowledge of Genjutsu, believing in such grotesque victories like effectively outlasting Itachi's poor stamina or fight while avoiding any for Genjutsu necessary visual contact. That appears to be their only straw they can clutch at, because there is no other way to effectively counter all of Itachi's powers for most Shinobi. These are the moments where such theories are shattered.

A debate isn't needed, because any person who is familiar with the Manga and the abilities of these two combatants, will know that Itachi will beat Hiashi without hesitating.

There is a reason why izanami was made and its sole purpose is to fulfill that reason. It has not been used in any other cases except for this: When a person cannot accept their own mistakes and need to be taught that they must accept what has happened or the consequences/outcome of their actions so that they may end the genjutsu and progress.

There is also a reason why itachi said that using this technique in battle is extremely dangerous. When this technique is not used as it is intended, say for example, against someone who already accepts his/her mistakes when they do make them, the genjutsu would have no effect because they already accept the mistakes they make and the outcome of their actions. Right now, most people already are like this because they dont have special abilities or misconceptions about the world that would tempt them to believe such notions.

The uchiha had izanagi, a power only the uchihas could unlock that gave them the ability to change the outcome of anything they wished, including death. This caused conflict when two uchihas tried to use izanagi at the same time to try to change the same event to produce two separate outcomes. Izanami was made to end that reliance on izanagi so that the uchihas could accept their actions because with izanagi, the uchihas were not going to go anywhere and it would eventually lead the clan to their demise.

Kabuto was misguided by believing that he fould not be anything without the anilities of other people, which is why he used the dna of the sound four and orochimaru to become something that he was not. He could not accept himself for who he really was because of what had happened in his past, being an orphan who had amnesia and needed to be taken care of to find out who he was. He was then betrayed by the leaf and was then at a loss of who he was again because of roots actions. Orochimaru was only there to help him find who he was, though he got the wrong message through oros obsession sith the ultimate power that the uchihas held and their link to the sage of six paths. Itachi used izanami on kabuto to show him that he needed to accept that who he was wasnt dependent on obtaining other peoples power, but through his own abilities.

 

[Shura]

I changed my mind, Itachi wins. Sorry. :/

 

[Mellanoma]

First off Hiashi has no counter to the following

Yata
Totsuka Blade
Finger Genjutsu
Crow Clone Genjutsu
Faint clone explosion genjutsu

Reason: It is already stated in the manga that Byakkagan can't tell the difference between clones. Where as the Sharingan can. Meaning if Itachi wanted to use Faint clone explosion or Crow Clone Genjutsu he could keep the fight long range.

Further more you say Hiashi can air palm susanoo then show us an image of Neji Air palming the Juubi WITH NARUTO KCM BOOST. lul get real dude.

Finally Believe it or not Considering the Hyuuga must have there eyes open to see 358 degrees that means they are even more susceptible to eye contact genjutsu thus tsukyomi 1 shots.

Last but not least Totsuka blade would end hiashi since his only counter is rotation

 

[fastrthnwind]

First off Hiashi has no counter to the following

Yata
Totsuka Blade
Finger Genjutsu
Crow Clone Genjutsu
Faint clone explosion genjutsu

Reason: It is already stated in the manga that Byakkagan can't tell the difference between clones. Where as the Sharingan can. Meaning if Itachi wanted to use Faint clone explosion or Crow Clone Genjutsu he could keep the fight long range.

Further more you say Hiashi can air palm susanoo then show us an image of Neji Air palming the Juubi WITH NARUTO KCM BOOST. lul get real dude.

Finally Believe it or not Considering the Hyuuga must have there eyes open to see 358 degrees that means they are even more susceptible to eye contact genjutsu thus tsukyomi 1 shots.

Last but not least Totsuka blade would end hiashi since his only counter is rotation

People like you amuse me to no end. You act like hiashi is just gonna SIT there and get hit with everything itachi has, like he isnt the most powerful hyuuga of one of the strongest clans.(I DONT CARE if hes not uchiha or senju)

Yata - ok so susanoo has yata mirror. Wut is ur point? Did we say it would destroy it? No we didnt. We said he could hold him back from attacking.

Totska blade - dodge it. Its not that fast. But then again ppl like u would just say totska gg so im not bothering with it.

Genjutsu - close the eyelids nullifies ALL eye contact. They can see through their eyelids. Eye contact with the ovular organ is required for all of itachis genjutsu so he wont get caught in any genjutsu INCLUDING tskuyomi.

Clone explosion - Rotation or vacuum palm does the trick.

Im starting to doubt ur intelligence now. NARUTO GAVE CHAKRA TO EVERYONE AFTER NEJI DIED.

Again it need direct eye contact with the actual organ, not just seeing it with byakugan vision.

Again just dodging it is fine. Hiashi is fast by himself and totska is not.

 

[Nous]

Pitiful. This is completely subjective to Hiashi Hyūga being cognizant of being in state of entire intelligence of Itachi's arsenal. It has not been highlighted whether Hiashi possesses any intellect apropos the abilities of Uchiwa. Hiashi may not be informed of Itachi's ocular prowess to the extent that he truly is resulting in Tsukuyomi being potentially a confrontation completer.

Moreover, you seem to be disregarding Utakata which will be a cognitive factor which will immediately sequel to Hiashi's discomfiture. Utakata ingeniously the requisite of Itachi's finger [

You must be registered for see links

]-[

You must be registered for see links

]... Hiashi cannot overcome Itachi caliber genjutsu.

It is not contentious that Hiashi, due to his combat fashion, is a more or less, close-quarter warrior. This will put him in relative range of Utakata, resulting in defeat. Chiyo, a notable kunoichi in her own regard has combated against Uchiwa; quotidian ones at that. In spite of such, she still regards genjutsu from Uchiha [disregarding ocular level and skill] as deadly and requires two to combat [

You must be registered for see links

].

Furthermore, the scale of Itachi's Amaterasu far exceeds Hiashi potential of constantly expelling the dojutsu [

You must be registered for see links

]-[

You must be registered for see links

]. Hakkeshō Kaiten requires direct chakura employment, post-haste from chakura network. As you noted contra to Itachi's divinity, chakura is limited—Hiashi can only do such for a countable quantity of time before the dissipating of his chakura reserves. The only such counter is leaping, which will give Itachi a easy target to employ another Amaterasu shot at.

Despite the prowess of the Byakugan, all that Hyūga Ichizoku can provide is useless in the face of the Sharingan.

You must be registered for see images

​

 

[Curse Mark]

Hiashi wins.

 

[Unorthodox]

itachi shits yasaka magatama

 

[KGB Kakuzu]

doesnt itachi have genjutsu that effects you through other senses besides sight.
idk i think itachi wins low diff

Izanagi can be used on himself to escape desth once; however, he'd simply then be unable to use Amaterasu/Tsukiyomi (pending eye) and thus also Susanoo. Not to mention he'd be basically dead chakra/stamina wise.

Izanami is a non factor. It only targets those who try to be what they aren't.



OT: I'd agree. While many will simply through out the Itachi wins speeches, he honestly has a match here.


In terms of reaction feats, honestly dodging all the Mokuton spikes is a feat. Hiashi was able to analyze the fast moving projectiles, block them using rotation, and upon that failing have a position to move to that completely avoids being hit. Hinata was even able to dodge the spikes. Managing to even go so far as see a single spike that was a danger to Naruto and then block it before it hits him. With the Byakugan she could judge the position of one in thousands of spikes that was on a trajectory towards someone else. Considering Hiashi's eyes are the same blood as Hinata's and probably stronger... It shows how well the Byakugan can track mass- high speed movement.


Genjutsu is canceled by X-Ray vision. Stamina wise Hiashi is a beast. He used countless rotations and even a wall palm capable of blocking the Juubi, and wasn't even exhausted.



You can think of the Hyuga as fodder, but Hiashi shows the great potential this clan has.

First off Hiashi has no counter to the following

Yata
Totsuka Blade
Finger Genjutsu
Crow Clone Genjutsu
Faint clone explosion genjutsu

Reason: It is already stated in the manga that Byakkagan can't tell the difference between clones. Where as the Sharingan can. Meaning if Itachi wanted to use Faint clone explosion or Crow Clone Genjutsu he could keep the fight long range.

Further more you say Hiashi can air palm susanoo then show us an image of Neji Air palming the Juubi WITH NARUTO KCM BOOST. lul get real dude.

Finally Believe it or not Considering the Hyuuga must have there eyes open to see 358 degrees that means they are even more susceptible to eye contact genjutsu thus tsukyomi 1 shots.

Last but not least Totsuka blade would end hiashi since his only counter is rotation

Yata: Air Wall Palm. The attack will not hurt Itachi, but remember two facts.

A) While not breaking it, physical force of such a degree will serve as a mechanism to push Itachi back keeping him away from Hiashi.

B) The Yata Mirror and Totsuka Blade only FURTHER hurt his chakra reserves and stamina... Killing him more quickly.


Finger/Crow Genjutsu: the X-ray vision results in the ability to avoide direct contact which counters the Finger and crow genjutsu which operate on visual based activations.

Feint Clone Explosion Genjutsu: The feint clone is different from a normal clone in that it is designed as am explosive: meaning it has a mass placed for detonation. Something a normal clone wouldn't have. Also, clones and Shadow clones are different. Shadow clones equally distribute chakra whereas other clones don't (considering Sasuke could defeat the Zabuza clones with zero difficulty). It's entirely possible those clones don't operate like Shadow clones.

Totsuka: Firstly Wall Palm prevents Itachi from getting close enough. Furthermore, rotation can block it...how?!

1. The Totsuka blade attacks as a physical object. Otherwise it cannot cut Orochimaru's Hydra heads.

2. As such, Rotation which acts as a physical barrier can equate to the Hydra heads... But as a wall of chakra it deflects the blade.

 

[Gakido]

Izanami is a Genjutsu that has the same effect on all individuals.

Scan? Itachi specifically states that Izanami is not fit for combat and was specifically designed to use on Uchiha's that had lost their way using Izanagi.

How you will act inside Izanami will decide whether you will escape.

Scan? Itachi disagrees.

There is no reason why Hiashi would escape.

Itachi disagrees.

Izanami has the characteristics of a normal Genjutsu, and once you're caught in Genjutsu, you automatically intend to escape it. Even if Hiashi had knowledge on Izanami, he actually can't distinguish it from other Genjutsu

Kabuto caught on pretty quick.

hence he will not know when Itachi decides to use Izanagi or whether he is going to use it. Once Hiashi was caught in Izanami, Itachi will need seconds to kill him. Like he opened Kabuto's eyes to use Tsukuyomi while latter was already under the affect of Izanami

Bold: Already proven wrong in the OP. The Byakugan can see when Doujutsu Techs are being used. Even then, Kabuto was a prime target for Izanami. Hiashi is not.

There is also no reason other Genjutsu wouldn't work. It's a difference to detect that another person is influenced by Genjutsu based on the Chakra flow, which is seen by Doujutsu, or if you are the one who is caught within a Genjutsu, which works by controlling manipulating the flow of Chakra in your brain. Doujutsu users are not protected from Genjutsu either, past uncovered that their senses are affected as well. But while the Sharingan has the specific ability of seeing through all (visual) Genjutsu, Byakugan has nothing like that when it comes to handling the illusion you were put inside.

Absolutely all of this is irrelevant. It doesn't counter the fact that the Byakugan's X-Ray vision completely counters Eye-Contact Genjutsu by simply using that ability to look through their eyelids.

Conclusion? Tsukuyomi would end the battle as well. Not only because Hiashi lacks the ability of the Sharingan, but also because it was stated that only those with Uchiha blood can break it.

So Hashirama gets solo'd by Itachi with your logic.

The thing with Susanoo, well, it is nothing but ridiculous. An incomplete stage of Susanoo already proved enough foothold to stay at its place while under the affect of Baku's suction; even when it took Danzo' dramatically increased Fuuton from the other side. Air Wall Palm won't do shit to Susanoo.

So your saying that Susano'O is sturdier than the Juubi? Priceless.

Ultimately, people will always restrict Itachi to his stamina or the opponents knowledge of Genjutsu, believing in such grotesque victories like effectively outlasting Itachi's poor stamina or fight while avoiding any for Genjutsu necessary visual contact. That appears to be their only straw they can clutch at, because there is no other way to effectively counter all of Itachi's powers for most Shinobi. These are the moments where such theories are shattered.

A debate isn't needed, because any person who is familiar with the Manga and the abilities of these two combatants, will know that Itachi will beat Hiashi without hesitating.

Baby want a bottle?

Pitiful. This is completely subjective to Hiashi Hyūga being cognizant of being in state of entire intelligence of Itachi's arsenal. It has not been highlighted whether Hiashi possesses any intellect apropos the abilities of Uchiwa. Hiashi may not be informed of Itachi's ocular prowess to the extent that he truly is resulting in Tsukuyomi being potentially a confrontation completer.​

Kakashi knew pretty much all there was to know about Itachi in part 1 bar the Mangekyou. Saying that Hiashi wouldn't know about the Uchiha affinity for Genjutsu and Itachi's fame with Genjutsu is ludicrous.

Moreover, you seem to be disregarding Utakata which will be a cognitive factor which will immediately sequel to Hiashi's discomfiture. Utakata ingeniously the requisite of Itachi's finger [

You must be registered for see links

]-[

You must be registered for see links

]... Hiashi cannot overcome Itachi caliber genjutsu.

Closed Eyes completely negate this.

It is not contentious that Hiashi, due to his combat fashion, is a more or less, close-quarter warrior. This will put him in relative range of Utakata, resulting in defeat. Chiyo, a notable kunoichi in her own regard has combated against Uchiwa; quotidian ones at that. In spite of such, she still regards genjutsu from Uchiha [disregarding ocular level and skill] as deadly and requires two to combat [

You must be registered for see links

].

Does Chiyo have the Byakugan? No she doesn't. Which means my counter is still valid. By your logic as well, Hashirama gets solo'd by Itachi.

Furthermore, the scale of Itachi's Amaterasu far exceeds Hiashi potential of constantly expelling the dojutsu [

You must be registered for see links

]-[

You must be registered for see links

]. Hakkeshō Kaiten requires direct chakura employment, post-haste from chakura network. As you noted contra to Itachi's divinity, chakura is limited—Hiashi can only do such for a countable quantity of time before the dissipating of his chakura reserves. The only such counter is leaping, which will give Itachi a easy target to employ another Amaterasu shot at.

​

So your saying that Itachi can use Amaterasu longer than Hiashi can use Rotation? Laughable.

 

[sharingansennin]

Speculation. There is no way of knowing if he cannot break out or not. But I already stated how he can break out of genjutsu so I'm sticking to the argument that genjutsu isn't a 4sure winning tool against Hiashi. I will say, however, I don't think Hiashi will beat Itachi in a battle.

considering Kakashi the best non Uchiha Sharingan user feel victim to tsukuyomi Hiashi isn't breaking out of it but then again the Hyuga haven't got enough development, hell the last 1v1 Neji has was in Part 1 if im not mistaken.

 

[Strict]

Does Chiyo have the Byakugan? No she doesn't. Which means my counter is still valid. By your logic as well, Hashirama gets solo'd by Itachi.

There we go with our butthurt. Of course Hashirama gets soloed if he falls for Tsukuyomi, there is no reason he would withstand it.

You say the Byakugan will simply look through Itachi's eyelids with the given ability to change the vision to see the Chakra system of the victim, what is complete bullshit, since every Doujutsu user would make advantage of this ability, hence Kakashi would not need to avoid eye contact in their second meeting with Itachi, because he possesses the Sharingan which can change its vision as well.

Pitiful arguments with no sense behind.

 

[Draegod]

Hiashi>>>Itachi. Simple.

 

[Nous]

Have yet to counter Utakata..

If Hiashi is truly stronger, than why is it that overall a near deceased Itachi, still remains on top of him in nearly all regards?

Spoiler

Hiashi

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Itachi

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Do not question the divine; that is, the Uchiha.

​

 

[Draegod]

Have yet to counter Utakata..

If Hiashi is truly stronger, than why is it that overall a near deceased Itachi, still remains on top of him in nearly all regards?

Spoiler

Hiashi

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Itachi

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Do not question the divine; that is, the Uchiha.

​

Naruto is about match ups, not who has more hype or higher stats. Naruto stats are shit, but he defeats almost every ninja correct?

 

[paratise]

Have yet to counter Utakata..

If Hiashi is truly stronger, than why is it that overall a near deceased Itachi, still remains on top of him in nearly all regards?

Spoiler

Hiashi

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Itachi

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Do not question the divine; that is, the Uchiha.

​

Iruka's stats (26) are higher than Lee's (22) or Temari's (24,5); yet he would get wrecked by them.
Stats do not mean much to determine who would win a fight.

OT: Makes sense.

 

[AGoodBoy]

When you can Read you're opponents every intention with insight and anything Chakra related speed/reaction is only a plus. What does itachi have that can Out do the byakugans unique abilities it gives the users?

Sharingan. It's predictive abilities have been shown to be far superior to byakugan. Hiashi predicts itachi's movements and starts to counter, Itachi re-assesses his attack based on the new info and counters a counter. Hiashi dies eventually. Stamina isn't a factor because hiashi isn't surviving that long.

 

[fastrthnwind]

Sharingan. It's predictive abilities have been shown to be far superior to byakugan. Hiashi predicts itachi's movements and starts to counter, Itachi re-assesses his attack based on the new info and counters a counter. Hiashi dies eventually. Stamina isn't a factor because hiashi isn't surviving that long.

Im sorry, but WHAT? Are you implyng that the character with the worst stamina in the manga will outlast a man who has a 4 in stamina in the DB?

You must have been joking.