Establishing why: Sasori > Nidaime Mizukage

Kaede

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Akasuna no Sasori vs. Nidaime Mizukage | 赤砂のサソリvs二代目水影

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Restrictions: None.
Info: Basic Manga Knowledge.
Location: Sasuke vs Deidara.
Distance: 35 Meters.
Intent: To kill.
Conditions: Both are alive.

Absolute Iron Defence | 絶対鉄防衛

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To start off, let me say that Sasori most likely won't approach the Nidaime Mizukage in Hiruko due to one reason. It would be foolish to approach a Kage in a Hitokugutsu such as Hiruko, and Sasori likes to make sure that he is safe inside of a battle. Because of that one reason and Sasori being the type of a guy that likes to make sure that he isn't in danger, he surely won't approach the Nidaime Mizukage in Hiruko.

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Even if he does start out in Hiruko, it doesn't really matter that much since the only way the Mizukage has of breaking Hiruko is Jōki Bōi. The explosion would surely break Hiruko [ ], but that doesn't mean that it would kill Sasori as well. As we know, Chiyo needed to use Sakura's strenght to break Sasori's Puppet Armor; Hiruko. [ ]

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Now please do remember that Chiyo has a jutsu in her arsenal that could easily crush Puppets. [ ][ ] Yes, the Sanbō Kyūkai, but even with this technique in her arsenal, she admitted that she would need Sakura's strenght to crush Hiruko and she didn't even know about the new model of Hiruko [ ] who's shielding improved. This means that her techniques would be unable to slice [ ][ ] or crush the old Hiruko, who's defenses aren't as good as they are now. This tells us that Hiruko can't be broken easily.

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Alright, since Chiyo didn't have anything that can crush Hiruko in her arsenal despite having a technique such as the Sanbō Kyūkai [ ], she had to use Sakura's strenght to crush it. Do I need to remind you how strong Sakura is? She was able to smash a giant boulder without much effort put into it. [ ] Not to mention that this isn't the only strenght feat that she has. [ ]

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Even with her strenght, when she smashed Hiruko, Sasori himself didn't recieve any damage at all. [ ][ ] This means that if Jōki Bōi explodes and breaks Hiruko, the puppet itself will tank a portion of the explosion while Sasori's body will tank the rest. How exactly? Well, to make things worse for the Mizukage, Sasori's body is actually a better defense than Hiruko is. Unlike when Hiruko, Sasori's real body didn't shatter when Sakura punched him, it simply reconnected. [ ][ ] Even when Sakura punched him in the face, the only thing that punch made was a small crack and nothing more. [ ] Not to mention that in the databook, it has been stated several times that Sasori's body is ''indestructible''.

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Now before we come to a conclusion, let's look at Jōki Bōi's explosion for a moment. [ ][ ] Looking at it, Jōki Bōi's explosion can be compared to Deidara's larger Shī Tsū explosions. [ ] Despite it's explosive power, Shī Tsū was only able to destroy Sasuke's wing. [ ]

Since we can easily compare the Jōki Bōi's explosion to the Shī Tsū explosion which was tanked by Sasuke, Sasori's body should be capable of tanking the Jōki Bōi's explosion. Especially since Hiruko will tank a portion of the explosion before it hits Sasori himself. As long as Sasori guards his core, it doesn't matter. His body feels no pain and he will just reconnect back if the explosion blows away his body parts. [ ]

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Well, it only makes things easier if Sasori decides to start out with the Sandaime Kazekage instead due to the Satetsu. [ ] Unlike Gaara's normal sand, which is considered to be the absolute defense [ ], Satetsu is a better defense due to the original material that it's made out is iron. Since Gaara's normal sand was able to tank a Jōki Bōi's explosion, Satetsu would tank it as well. [ ][ ]

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To fully counter or avoid Jōki Bōi, Sasori has two options:

1) Since it has been stated in the manga that Sasori can create any shape out of the Satetsu, he can simply make something that would help him to fly off. [ ] Basically he can make the Sandaime Kazekage grow Satetsu Wings [ ] and then he can simply make a Satetsu Block or hell perhaps even a Satetsu Bird that he could fly on. Because of that, the Jōki Bōi now has no way of reaching Sasori.

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2) He can simply keep an amount of Satetsu at his side and everytime the Jōki Bōi explodes, Sasori can make the Satetsu mix with the hail produced from the explosion. [ ] Eventually, Sasori can just envelope the Jōki Bōi clone in the Satetsu that is mixed with the hail and then it won't explode again. [ ] To catch the Jōki Bōi clone with the Satetsu won't be really hard since Satetsu is extremely fast [ ][ ][ -> ] or he can simply use the same tactic Gaara used. [ ] Let's not forget that Sasori can use his flamethrowers to make the Jōki Bōi explode before the Mizukage plans to set it off. [ ] Someone as intelligent as Sasori will figure out how to stop the Jōki Bōi sooner or later.

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The Nidaime Mizukage's clam summoning won't really be a threat here as well since it only uses Genjutsu via a mist. [ ] Sasori can simply fly out of that mist on his Satetsu, but it doesn't really matter since Sasori is a Puppet so Genjutsu doesn't work on him. [ ]

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The Mizudeppō no Jutsu isn't a threat here at all. Everything Sasori has can tank it. (Hiruko, his real body, Satetsu)​

Sunagakure's Most Feared Weapon | 砂隠れの里の最も恐れられて武器

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Since I already started with Hiruko in the first part of this thread, I'll establish how Hiruko helps Sasori to kill the Mizukage. As we know, Hiruko uses needles as weapons and while it's true that the Mizukage can use the Suika no Jutsu instead of evading them, that isn't really a good idea. All of Sasori's weapons are poisoned so you simply must evade them. [ ][ ] The needles will pierce throught his water body and the poison from the needles will mix with the water. Once the Mizukage releases his Suika no Jutsu, the poison will make his body numb. [ ]

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If the Mizukage doesn't die from this and once he destroys Hiruko, he will have no way of knowing that Hiruko isn't Sasori's real body so he'll most likely think that Sasori is dead and begin to walk away. Once the Mizukage lets his guard down, Sasori can approach him from behind and stab him with a poisoned weapon while the Mizukage would believe that Sasori is dead until the moment Sasori stabs him. Please do remember, that this is something Sasori already tried against Chiyo. [ ][ ]

Now, if the Mizukage somehow survives this, the real battle starts since the Mizukage would undoubtedly bring out his Clam or Jōki Bōi while Sasori would bring out Sandaime Kazekage and the Satetsu. Please do remember that it doesn't take long for a skilled Puppet Master to bring out his puppet. [ ][ ] In the databook and it the manga, it is stated that the more puppets a Puppet Master can control, the more skilled he is. [ ] Chiyo was able to bring out her puppets in a second and she could control ten puppets at once. [ ] Sasori himself laughs at that number since he can control one hundred puppets at once [ ] which means that he is more skilled and that he could bring out his puppets faster than Chiyo can.

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After he brings out the Sandaime, he will most likely have to find and destroy the Clam first, but that isn't really a problem. We have seen that in the manga, the Nidaime Mizukage keeps the Clam close to the mirage. [ ] Sasori can simply keep on attacking with the Satetsu until he finds and crushes the Clam. [ ][ ][ ][ ] You can clearly see that these Satetsu attacks were able to pierce throught even bedrock. Sasori can simply keep on spamming these Satetsu attacks until they hit the Clam or the real Mizukage.

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If these Satetsu attacks somehow fail to find and crush the Clam or the Mizukage, Sasori can use the Satetsu Kaihō to destroy the whole battlefield. [ ][ ] This Satetsu attack will undoubtedly hit and kill both the Clam and the Mizukage. Sakura has already stated that the spikes are going everywhere.

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However, if Sasori doesn't use this and manages to crush the Clam with the minor Satetsu attacks, Mizukage's only option left is to bring out the Jōki Bōi, but unfortunately for the Mizukage, Sasori has a way to stop it as I have established in the first part of the thread. Lets not forget that when the Mizukage uses Jōki Bōi his body becomes weaker [ ] and because of that, it only becomes easier for Sasori to kill him. I don't believe that the Mizukage can even use the Suika no Jutsu in that state, but it doesn't really matter. Even if he can, Sasori can kill him by making the poison mix with the water or he can simply envelope the Mizukage in a Satetsu Dome and since the Mizukage has to breathe, he will die because of the lack of oxygen inside that Satetsu Dome. Lets not forget that Sasori can hit the water with his flamethrowers so that it would become steam.

In the end, like I said, if anything else fails then the Satetsu Kaihō will end the battle.​

Winner: Akasuna no Sasori | 勝者:赤砂のサソリ

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TheEvilOne

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Too long to read, but its indeed a nice work and I agree with it.
 

pateuvasiliu

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Since when does armor protect against explosions? Sasori dies along with his puppets if hit by Joki Boy.
 

Zexion~

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Loving that avatar,


Agree with what you wrote
 

Penguin

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Damn nice thread sir!

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Since when does armor protect against explosions? Sasori dies along with his puppets if hit by Joki Boy.

Sakura's punch that broke a huge boulder did not kill Sasori in Hiruko, so why would Joki Boy?
 

Fecal Matter

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As usual the Sasori fan(artist) has to make his thread look good to read thus appealing the viewer before reading.:cool:
I'll start reading after posting this.
 

Kaede

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As usual the Sasori fan(artist) has to make his thread look good to read thus appealing the viewer before reading.:cool:
I'll start reading after posting this.

Lol. You know us Sasori fans. :cool:

Alright. Take your time. >_>​
 

Fodder#4

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You went after TrollKage now too?! Y U DO THIS?!
 

Fodder#4

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You like the Trollkage? >_> It doesn't matter. One day, you will become a Sasori fanboy. u_u​
They said the same thing with Tobirama; and I have yet to convert!

Yeah.. In a big fan of most Kirigakure shinobi ._.
 

KGB Kakuzu

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Poisoning

One thing I noticed you argued is that Sasori's multitude of poisonous materials would simply enter into the Mizukage's body, and proceed to poison him. I personally would have to disagree with this notion.

1. Sasori's senbons and other poisonous weapons come in the form of fast moving projectiles (Senbons mostly as I recall). So firstly, due to the Mizukage's Hydrification techniques, the Mizukage allows these attacks to largely pass through.

The poison effects targets by entering their bloodstream and then kills the opponent slowly from the inside. With a liquidized body, the Mizukage does not have a coherent, or existing bloodstream for the poison to interact with, and as such it is simply poison sitting within a zone of water.

2. Unique to the Mizukage however, is that he ALSO has an existence of Oil in his body, and it was seen being used to effect things such as Gaara's Sand (and thusly removing paper tags). This technique can be used to flush out the poisons from his body.

Thusly, it seems highly unlikely that poison will kill the Mizukage.




Mirage Genjutsu

The mirage genjutsu has a notorious amount of range. The NarutoWiki even mentions it has all ranges... but obviously they are not the most reliable source of information. Still, the Mirage Genjutsu still has an impressive range as seen here . The image shows both Oonoiki and Gaara's Sand Eye flying high above the ground , but een Oonoiki and the eye had been unable to observe the clam until it had been sensed through sand. The following image also shows that Oonoiki was at a height far above the Rock Pillars (observe the trail lines to his vertical descent downward), and it also gives you an idea of the size of the rock pillars by comparing them to the Mizukage . Furthermore, let's describe a mirage

A mirage is a naturally occurring optical phenomenon in which light rays are bent to produce a displaced image of distant objects or the sky. This means that it isn't the fact that people aren't being effected because they are inside of the Clam's Mist, but instead because the Clam's Mist exists. The Mizukage's genjutsu allows for the Clam to create a huge area of steam and the Mizukage then manipulates this mist with his chakra to create the illusions he desires.

At this point, one could suppose the idea that Sasori is immune to genjutsu, but the mirage genjutsu operates by creating an artificial mirage over an unspecified range. It isn't fired to directly control the individual opponent, but instead a genjutsu that acts upon the land. At that point one has to contemplate how Sasori reacts to natural mirages, but considering no evidence to the contrary, it is likely Sasori's eyes still see natural illusions (because they are simple tricks played on the eyes as opposed to something that is forcefully altering what one sees).

To better clarify, basically, the Mizukage's Mirage effects everyone because it is creating a mirage that the Mizukage Manipulates. The range and radius is not clear; however, it was enough to keep an entire division from being able to operate against him... plus, his true location ended up being where no one was. Considering he originally summoned the clam while surrounded (and the clam was above ground)... this suggest the clam is also capable of movement.

Clam Defense

The Clam has a considerably high defensive rate. Despite flying from high above and smashing into the top of the clam with both the Rock Fist and the natural force and velocity of the fall... the Clam received only minute cracks. It took the Aggravated Rock Technique (which adds weight to whatever the Tsuchikage touches) to destroy it .

1. Notice that despite flying from well above the Rock Columns and impacting a solid object (that stopped his momentum) his back did not give out.

2. Only after superimposing his weight into the rock fist did it break.

This indicates that there was a tremendous amount of force or weight added to the Rock. So similarly to Hiruko, the Clam does not fall easily to attack.


The Cost of Flight

If Sasori decides to fly vertical with the Iron Sand technique, he'd have to attack from a range. However, this comes at the cost of making the interval of time between attack launch, and attack hit extended. As such, this gives the Mizukage ample time to register and proceed to dodge an attack.

Of course, it is also good to note that as an individual capable of Hydrification, he simply could remain still and slowly phase through the Iron Sand with minimal effort.


Additionally, based on the battle zone, Trollkage can maneuver through the trees. Not being a Sensor, Sasori would have to move and rely on finding him, and thus either clearing the forest or moving down into the forest (giving up his range). Even with the forest knocked down, the Mizukage can utilize hydrification to simply hide under or around fallen trees... making the task of finding him even harder.

Since Sasori hates wasting time, his patience would more than likely grow thin with the prospect of wasting time.


Hiruko's Defense


Firstly, Chiyo mentions she lacks the physical power to destroy the Puppet... this is true; however, it is good to note Chiyo only showed having puppets with sword like weapons on them (some being tendrils of spiked hair...moving on). This means she did not have explosive ordinance such as the Trollkage has in his arsenal (Joki Boi).


Now, analyzing your explosion sets.

It is relatively hard to compare Sasuke's Wings, Deidara's Bombs, Hiruko's armor, and the Mizukage's explosion.

1. Sasuke completely changes color... this means that his skin is no longer something that is comprised of normal skin components... thusly, it's plausible defensive prowess are unable to be accurately gauged.

2. We also know throughout the battle, Sasuke consistently hindered Deidara's clay by maniplulating lightning.... considering he had ample time to throw his sword (which he had been charging with Lightning) and defend himself (possibly with said lightning) it is entirely possible that despite the blast zone, the attack was diverted... but that's hypothetical.

3. We do not know the respective heights of the Trees to the Rocks that existed in the Lightning Desert.


Hiruko is a puppet which means it is mostly comprised of especially designed wood. The greatest part to it's defense was its added metallic tail and the turtle shell mask. Naturally, Chiyo's arsenal would have hardly been able to deal with it between Sasori's mastery of the same art as well as the fact all of her puppets offered now great explosive power.

Puppet 1: Just a regular puppet used for defense next to Chiyo

Puppet 2: Great Taijutsu skill, but nothing more (used large fists)

Puppet 3: Transformed into a ball and chain spinning Saw

Puppet 4: Used puppet 3 as a weapon

Puppet 5: Had spikes in its head... that operated on coils

Puppets 6-8: Combined for the great vacuum technique

Puppet 9: Used dual Swords

Puppet 10: Had the sealing lion device


None of the puppets had an explosive force capable of dealing with Hiruko. The only plausibles were the combination of puppets 3 & 4.... or the use of the 6-8 vacuum technique. However...

1. Sasori knows of them

2. 6-8 would be a standing target for him to simply attack.


Hiruko has an impressive defense, but I would hardly say that trumps every attack that the Second Mizukage uses.


Sasori's Body

You showed the image of Sasori being punched in the face and declared it had more defense than Hiruko, but I'd disagree.

If Sasori's own shell was stronger... why bother using Hiruko. Sasori is one who deals with things quickly and doesn't screw around. Why waste time in a shell when he can stand out with a better defense and use stronger puppets?!

Furthermore, this was already after Sasori had been stabbed. It was easily mentioned earlier in the fight, Sakura wanted information on him. So, clearly she was not going to use full force to punch his Puppet head off. Since his puppet body seemingly acted as his mechanism for speech... taking the head would have thrown the head back (causing her to lose precious time and thus information), and even risk the head's destruction (I.E. no information). In the context of the situation... Sakura didn't hit Sasori nearly as hard as she did Hiruko.


Furthermore, his heart is a huge gaping target. The Mizukage has access to the Hozuki Water Gun technique which moves at relatively extreme speeds... and has enough impact speed to burst through a clone of sand and impact several feet into the ground without any effort. It is also good to point out many bullets themselves get trapped within the human body when shot... so really it could be argued that the Water Gun is just as deadly if not more. At the same time, it is hard to compare this since he shot through a sand clone... and the body defense/structure of sand clones =/= human bodies.

However, with the speed... all he has to do is shoot the heart not the puppet body, and Sasori is finished.


Joki Boi

One thing to note about Iron Sand techniques.... is they all seemingly launch out from a shape or initial point. Meaning if Sasori flies in the air... and launches the attacks from the sky, Joki Boi can simply run up the piercing Iron Sand as a platform towards Sasori. Joki Boi also has incredible speed to accomplish this . As it begins to increase in size... Joki Boi would most likely not effect the sand's ability to hold it due to the fact it does have the components of iron within it.

Joki Boi is comprised of the exact same substance as the Mizukage meaning that he is of Oil and Water.... and thus, physical attacks do not really affect him, and poisons will do nothing against him.

Lastly, Joki Boi's explosion is one of steam while there is an initial outlet of an actual explosion, the concept of steam must also be taken into consideration because intense steam can actually boil/melt/burn one's flesh. Since Sasori is a heart in a jar (but the jar also notably shows extensions out of it)... there is a risk of the explosion possibly destroying the heart, but also the risk of it drying out the heart or the tendrils escaping the jar. Such an endeavor being dangerous.





This fight at best becomes a stalemate due to Sasori's lack of attacks that would match up against the Liquid body of the Mizukage, and the Trollkage never showed a multitude of attacks to deal with Sasori in the sky (with Iron Sand). However, I would give my edge to the Mizukage because of the following (aside from the above).

1. The Trollkage grew up during the times of constant war (fighting constantly with the other nations). Sasori grew up in the relatively equal generation of Kakashi (being about 5 years older) which only dealt with the 3rd Ninja war. In terms of raw combat experience... most likely Trollkgae has more.

2. The Nidaime Mizukage constantly went up against Muu and eventually was able to kill the former (though he himself died). The point is that he managed to kill someone who used Jinton, Flight, and Invisibility. This guarantees that the Mizukage had some moves that were capable of going against both flying and invisible opponents.

3. Effort: During the majority of his debut... the Second Mizukage showed minimal efforts, and only ended up going all out towards the end of his battle (Joki Boi). As such, there is the possibility of him having a multitude of other techniques, but also it means he may not have used the Mirage Genjutsu to it's maximum potential. While I realize the same could be said for Sasori's arsenal of other human puppets... the point is that we have a bare minimum on what the Mizukage can do, and yet he already can go toe to toe with Sasori.


In the end... I have to give it to the Trollkage, but I love the amount of detail and effort you used Edo Sasori.... and I love that you have respect for one of the most underrated characters in Naruto. Keep it up!
 

Kaede

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Poisoning

One thing I noticed you argued is that Sasori's multitude of poisonous materials would simply enter into the Mizukage's body, and proceed to poison him. I personally would have to disagree with this notion.

1. Sasori's senbons and other poisonous weapons come in the form of fast moving projectiles (Senbons mostly as I recall). So firstly, due to the Mizukage's Hydrification techniques, the Mizukage allows these attacks to largely pass through.

While it's true that the needles would pass throught the Mizukage's body, you didn't understand what I was aiming at. When the needles pass throught his body, the water will wash the poison from the needles so the poison will stay in the water (Mizukage). Once the Mizukage releases the technique and his body returns to his normal form, the poison will take effect.​

The poison effects targets by entering their bloodstream and then kills the opponent slowly from the inside. With a liquidized body, the Mizukage does not have a coherent, or existing bloodstream for the poison to interact with, and as such it is simply poison sitting within a zone of water.

This is true. However, the Mizukage has no way of knowing that it is poison just like Kankuro didn't know. [ ] Once he returns to his normal form, the poison will make his body numb.​

2. Unique to the Mizukage however, is that he ALSO has an existence of Oil in his body, and it was seen being used to effect things such as Gaara's Sand (and thusly removing paper tags). This technique can be used to flush out the poisons from his body.

Thusly, it seems highly unlikely that poison will kill the Mizukage.

While it may be true, the Mizukage doesn't know that Sasori uses poison (Keep in mind that Kankuro, a Sunagakure shinobi, didn't know that he uses poison) and he will figure it out at the moment the poison takes effect so his body will be numb by then.​

Mirage Genjutsu

The mirage genjutsu has a notorious amount of range. The NarutoWiki even mentions it has all ranges... but obviously they are not the most reliable source of information. Still, the Mirage Genjutsu still has an impressive range as seen here . The image shows both Oonoiki and Gaara's Sand Eye flying high above the ground , but een Oonoiki and the eye had been unable to observe the clam until it had been sensed through sand. The following image also shows that Oonoiki was at a height far above the Rock Pillars (observe the trail lines to his vertical descent downward), and it also gives you an idea of the size of the rock pillars by comparing them to the Mizukage . Furthermore, let's describe a mirage

While this is true, nothing really stops Sasori from going up higher nor can Genjutsu work on him since he is no longer considered Human which means that he lacks a brain. [ ][ ]​

A mirage is a naturally occurring optical phenomenon in which light rays are bent to produce a displaced image of distant objects or the sky. This means that it isn't the fact that people aren't being effected because they are inside of the Clam's Mist, but instead because the Clam's Mist exists. The Mizukage's genjutsu allows for the Clam to create a huge area of steam and the Mizukage then manipulates this mist with his chakra to create the illusions he desires.

The only problem here is that the Mirage is still a Genjutsu, and as long as it is a Genjutsu and as long as Genjutsu doesn't work on Sasori, it won't take effect on him.​

At this point, one could suppose the idea that Sasori is immune to genjutsu, but the mirage genjutsu operates by creating an artificial mirage over an unspecified range. It isn't fired to directly control the individual opponent, but instead a genjutsu that acts upon the land. At that point one has to contemplate how Sasori reacts to natural mirages, but considering no evidence to the contrary, it is likely Sasori's eyes still see natural illusions (because they are simple tricks played on the eyes as opposed to something that is forcefully altering what one sees).

To better clarify, basically, the Mizukage's Mirage effects everyone because it is creating a mirage that the Mizukage Manipulates. The range and radius is not clear; however, it was enough to keep an entire division from being able to operate against him... plus, his true location ended up being where no one was. Considering he originally summoned the clam while surrounded (and the clam was above ground)... this suggest the clam is also capable of movement.

Like I said, this is still a Genjustu that has to effect Sasori somehow in order for it to work, however, unfortunately for the Mizukage, Genjutsu doesn't work on him.​

Clam Defense

The Clam has a considerably high defensive rate. Despite flying from high above and smashing into the top of the clam with both the Rock Fist and the natural force and velocity of the fall... the Clam received only minute cracks. It took the Aggravated Rock Technique (which adds weight to whatever the Tsuchikage touches) to destroy it .

1. Notice that despite flying from well above the Rock Columns and impacting a solid object (that stopped his momentum) his back did not give out.

2. Only after superimposing his weight into the rock fist did it break.

This indicates that there was a tremendous amount of force or weight added to the Rock. So similarly to Hiruko, the Clam does not fall easily to attack.

Again, this is true, but once again unfortunately for the Mizukage, Satetsu has shown the ability to pierce throught even bedrock with ease. [ ][ ][ ] The clam's size doesn't really help out the Mizukage. [ ] It's just easier for Sasori to hit it.

The Cost of Flight

If Sasori decides to fly vertical with the Iron Sand technique, he'd have to attack from a range. However, this comes at the cost of making the interval of time between attack launch, and attack hit extended. As such, this gives the Mizukage ample time to register and proceed to dodge an attack.

Of course, it is also good to note that as an individual capable of Hydrification, he simply could remain still and slowly phase through the Iron Sand with minimal effort.

Yes, Sasori has to attack from a range, but you seem to forget that Sasori is a Puppet Master. Puppet Master likes to keep their distance from the target since they aren't really good at close combat. [ ] This means that Sasori is already used to attacking from a distance. And actually, Sasori decides how fast the Satetsu will be. Nothing stops him from increasing it's speed. [ ]

The Hydrafication technique is a bad move here since Poison can mix with it and since he can't really move fast enough to evade Satetsu which means that Sasori can simply envelope him in a Satetsu Dome. He'll die because of lack of oxygen sooner or later. Not to mention that Sasori can use his flamethrowers to turn the water into steam.​


Additionally, based on the battle zone, Trollkage can maneuver through the trees. Not being a Sensor, Sasori would have to move and rely on finding him, and thus either clearing the forest or moving down into the forest (giving up his range). Even with the forest knocked down, the Mizukage can utilize hydrification to simply hide under or around fallen trees... making the task of finding him even harder.

Since Sasori hates wasting time, his patience would more than likely grow thin with the prospect of wasting time.

This would be like telling Sasori: ''Pls. Kill me.'' As you said, Sasori is impatient and hidding from him would only result in Sasori using Satetsu Kaihou to wipe out the forest along with the Mizukage. [ ]​


Hiruko's Defense


Firstly, Chiyo mentions she lacks the physical power to destroy the Puppet... this is true; however, it is good to note Chiyo only showed having puppets with sword like weapons on them (some being tendrils of spiked hair...moving on). This means she did not have explosive ordinance such as the Trollkage has in his arsenal (Joki Boi).

It seems that you are forgetting about a certain technique that Chiyo has in her arsenal. [ ]

Now, analyzing your explosion sets.

It is relatively hard to compare Sasuke's Wings, Deidara's Bombs, Hiruko's armor, and the Mizukage's explosion.

1. Sasuke completely changes color... this means that his skin is no longer something that is comprised of normal skin components... thusly, it's plausible defensive prowess are unable to be accurately gauged.

The Curse Mark isn't that hard to break. The fact that Raikage's punch tore a hole in Juugo's chest [ ][ ] while Sakura's punch is a lot stronger tells us that Hiruko and Sasori's body defense is better.​

2. We also know throughout the battle, Sasuke consistently hindered Deidara's clay by maniplulating lightning.... considering he had ample time to throw his sword (which he had been charging with Lightning) and defend himself (possibly with said lightning) it is entirely possible that despite the blast zone, the attack was diverted... but that's hypothetical.

3. We do not know the respective heights of the Trees to the Rocks that existed in the Lightning Desert.

If Sasuke used Raiton to defend himself from that bomb, it would have been turned into a dud and it didn't.​


Hiruko is a puppet which means it is mostly comprised of especially designed wood. The greatest part to it's defense was its added metallic tail and the turtle shell mask. Naturally, Chiyo's arsenal would have hardly been able to deal with it between Sasori's mastery of the same art as well as the fact all of her puppets offered now great explosive power.

Puppet 1: Just a regular puppet used for defense next to Chiyo

Puppet 2: Great Taijutsu skill, but nothing more (used large fists)

Puppet 3: Transformed into a ball and chain spinning Saw

Puppet 4: Used puppet 3 as a weapon

Puppet 5: Had spikes in its head... that operated on coils

Puppets 6-8: Combined for the great vacuum technique

Puppet 9: Used dual Swords

Puppet 10: Had the sealing lion device


None of the puppets had an explosive force capable of dealing with Hiruko. The only plausibles were the combination of puppets 3 & 4.... or the use of the 6-8 vacuum technique. However...

1. Sasori knows of them

2. 6-8 would be a standing target for him to simply attack.


Hiruko has an impressive defense, but I would hardly say that trumps every attack that the Second Mizukage uses.

It doesn't matter if Sasori knows about them, Chiyo still stated that she doesn't even have anything in her arsenal that can break Hiruko. Even with something like that vacuum in her arsenal. Joki Boi would most likely break Hiruko, but it wouldn't kill Sasori who is sitting inside.​


Sasori's Body

You showed the image of Sasori being punched in the face and declared it had more defense than Hiruko, but I'd disagree.

If Sasori's own shell was stronger... why bother using Hiruko. Sasori is one who deals with things quickly and doesn't screw around. Why waste time in a shell when he can stand out with a better defense and use stronger puppets?!

Hiruko was used as an extra armor. Unlike Sasori himself, Hiruko doesn't have a core that the opponent can aim for so if someone tried to sneak on Sasori, he wouldn't be in danger of the opponent piercing his core. That's why he wore Hiruko. Please remember that Sasori likes to keep himself out of danger. [ ]​
Furthermore, this was already after Sasori had been stabbed. It was easily mentioned earlier in the fight, Sakura wanted information on him. So, clearly she was not going to use full force to punch his Puppet head off. Since his puppet body seemingly acted as his mechanism for speech... taking the head would have thrown the head back (causing her to lose precious time and thus information), and even risk the head's destruction (I.E. no information). In the context of the situation... Sakura didn't hit Sasori nearly as hard as she did Hiruko.

Sakura knew that Sasori's body wouldn't get destroyed since the first time she punched him, the body didn't get destroyed. When Sakura punched Sasori, he didn't get smashed like Hiruko did. Sasori's body is obviously harder to break than Hiruko is.​

Furthermore, his heart is a huge gaping target. The Mizukage has access to the Hozuki Water Gun technique which moves at relatively extreme speeds... and has enough impact speed to burst through a clone of sand and impact several feet into the ground without any effort. It is also good to point out many bullets themselves get trapped within the human body when shot... so really it could be argued that the Water Gun is just as deadly if not more. At the same time, it is hard to compare this since he shot through a sand clone... and the body defense/structure of sand clones =/= human bodies.

However, with the speed... all he has to do is shoot the heart not the puppet body, and Sasori is finished.

The Mizukage has no knowledge on Sasori's core so there is no reason for him to aim there and Sasori surely won't just sit and let it hit his core. He'll simply defend himself with his arm or with Satetsu.​



Joki Boi

One thing to note about Iron Sand techniques.... is they all seemingly launch out from a shape or initial point. Meaning if Sasori flies in the air... and launches the attacks from the sky, Joki Boi can simply run up the piercing Iron Sand as a platform towards Sasori. Joki Boi also has incredible speed to accomplish this . As it begins to increase in size... Joki Boi would most likely not effect the sand's ability to hold it due to the fact it does have the components of iron within it.

Joki Boi is comprised of the exact same substance as the Mizukage meaning that he is of Oil and Water.... and thus, physical attacks do not really affect him, and poisons will do nothing against him.

I already showed you that Sasori can simply make the Satetsu faster so that tactic can't be used. And I already said how Sasori stops the Joki Boi in the OP.​

Lastly, Joki Boi's explosion is one of steam while there is an initial outlet of an actual explosion, the concept of steam must also be taken into consideration because intense steam can actually boil/melt/burn one's flesh. Since Sasori is a heart in a jar (but the jar also notably shows extensions out of it)... there is a risk of the explosion possibly destroying the heart, but also the risk of it drying out the heart or the tendrils escaping the jar. Such an endeavor being dangerous.

Eh, Sasori's heart can't be melted or broken that easily. Remember when Sakura punched Sasori and all of his body parts went flying across the battlefield, Sasori's core hit the floor (rock) and it didn't seem to be damaged at all. Furthermore, the Joki Boi's steam hasn't really burnt Gaara's or anyone elses skin.​




This fight at best becomes a stalemate due to Sasori's lack of attacks that would match up against the Liquid body of the Mizukage, and the Trollkage never showed a multitude of attacks to deal with Sasori in the sky (with Iron Sand). However, I would give my edge to the Mizukage because of the following (aside from the above).

Sasori can deal with the liquid body as I have established above in my post.​

1. The Trollkage grew up during the times of constant war (fighting constantly with the other nations). Sasori grew up in the relatively equal generation of Kakashi (being about 5 years older) which only dealt with the 3rd Ninja war. In terms of raw combat experience... most likely Trollkgae has more.

2. The Nidaime Mizukage constantly went up against Muu and eventually was able to kill the former (though he himself died). The point is that he managed to kill someone who used Jinton, Flight, and Invisibility. This guarantees that the Mizukage had some moves that were capable of going against both flying and invisible opponents.

3. Effort: During the majority of his debut... the Second Mizukage showed minimal efforts, and only ended up going all out towards the end of his battle (Joki Boi). As such, there is the possibility of him having a multitude of other techniques, but also it means he may not have used the Mirage Genjutsu to it's maximum potential. While I realize the same could be said for Sasori's arsenal of other human puppets... the point is that we have a bare minimum on what the Mizukage can do, and yet he already can go toe to toe with Sasori.

The same can be said for Sasori. And as to how the Mizukage dealt with Muu's flying technique: Water Gun. When Muu charges up the Jinton, he needs to stay still. At that time, the Mizukage simply fired off his Water Gun at him. Sasori doesn't need to stay still and he can tank the Water Gun.​

In the end... I have to give it to the Trollkage, but I love the amount of detail and effort you used Edo Sasori.... and I love that you have respect for one of the most underrated characters in Naruto. Keep it up!

Thanks! :D
 

deidara senpai

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I disagree however I didn't read read it which I promise I shall and hope that sasori wins I look forward to reading this in a bit

Great job though no danna and I can't wait to get into detail once I'm free
=D
 
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