i didn't ignore anything. You're under the impression that i meant kakuzu breaths threw his lungs, which i didn't state anywhere in my post. I can't prove to you how exactly kakuzu obtains oxygen, but it's clear he does it. Else how would he keep the hearts "alive" and beating? Unless you're suggesting that these hearts are not in fact operating which would mean they're "dead" which couldn't be the case, else how else would he utilize it's nature affinity? He wouldn't. The hearts must remain alive and operating to maintain these abilities much like sasori's human puppets [
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] so, i will ask you, how exactly are the hearts being kept alive and operating without the intake of any oxygen (which the heart needs)?
And you're using an unconfirmed example, in saying sasori doesn't need oxygen to remain alive. Never ever confirmed. And actually, the fact that sasori did in fact bleed after his core was pierced, confirms that he has blood circulating within him (the hearts job) so real world logic is being applied here with the hearts functions, but it doesn't apply with how the heart is kept operating? Kay. Then why didn't sasori's heart or core continue to function after being pierced? Real world logic applied here also.
Wasn't unlikely for tenten [
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] and the other fodders [
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]
*_*
kisame made it clear that the v2 cloak was
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. So, yes, that would mean that it would take samehada a longer time to absorb it in addition to bee's incredible v2 bee. Unless you're implying kakuzu's raiton contains more chakra then bee's v2 form, i don't see where you're getting at here. And activate what exactly? It doesn't take any time for kisame and samehada brace themselves for an upcoming attack nor do they need to "activate" anything to absorb chakra.
And kakuzu would ambush kisame from behind despite him never showing to do so? I think you're overrating the speed of which his masks can travel. Even so, you so foolishly believe kisame will stand and watch kakuzu release his masks and just stand there without doing anything. Kisame obviously would expel his suiton: Bakusui shōha or use his mizu bunshins at the very least; which'll eliminate any possibility of kakuzu ambushing kisame from behind... Something that he has never done nor seems capable of doing.
Lmao, huh? No proof he could actually do that... Are you ray charles to the manga scans? He did it here as well while merging [
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] so you're saying kisame can't partially merge with something he can fully merge with? Makes sense. And no his threads will not ( nope, no, they certainly can not which i'll get to later) assuming kisame doesn't create mizu bunshins, which you find so far-fetched to occur.
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where does the db mention the tree's being crushed? It specifically says the tree's are being knocked down... And how are the tree's being knocked down? By the tremendous blowing force. This is clearly not something that will cause the wd to disperse from the outside.
So kisame spawning a shark bomb beside the masks in slower then the time it'll take kakuzu to realize what he's in and use his fuuton mask? Okay. Zabuza was able to utilize his mizu bunshins [
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] a considerable distance away from his real body [
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] he most likely created it from the water within his mist. So i see no reason why kisame can not spawn his shark bomb at any location within his chakra made water source.
Lmao, you're right.. Kisame opting in facing kakuzu and 4 masks capable of unleashing powerful elemental techniques without utilizing his mizu bunshins among other suiton techniques is completely and utterly ridiculous :| c'mon now.
You're losing it.
So because the fireball isn't completely aimed at kisame, he won't take any precautions despite this being a battle to the death? So kisame will assume that kakuzu is firing of a fireball for no apparent reason other then to waist his chakra? Laughable.
Kisame will in fact take any procedure necessary (chakra absorption, countering with suiton, or going underground) to rid him of this threat. Honestly, just cut this crap. This is weak.
That's not how it works. Firing a katon into water doesn't leave holes in it, lol. It will simply evaporate the water, as in, causing the dome to become smaller. Which is countered by simply adding more water into the dome, as i stated before. And kisame's chakra is constantly holding it together, so in order for kakuzu to get out, he would have to make it disperse altogether.
Tough guy huh? :dunno:
If what you say were to be the case, then explain to me how the masks are able to freely move on their own with the ability to spot their targets. Without kakuzu manipulating them himself via transmitting his chakra to the threads, this would mean the masks have some type of sensory ability to track down their targets. An ability they obviously do not have seeing kakuzu doesn't possess it himself. So it is questionable to me which way he manipulates these masks. Either way, samehada will be able to absorb the chakra. A single swipe completely stopped naruto from perform his summoning technique [
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]-[
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] so yes, samehada is able to absorb chakra even if it's not physically present.
They're actually not, seeing as you thought samehada isn't able to absorb chakra that isn't visibly and physically there. As long as chakra is being used, samehada can absorb it. So nope, kisame dominates in this field.
Lmao, you mean after kakashi took out one of his hearts? He didn't use it against his fight with the izumo and kotetsu either. Furthermore, this is how fights in naruto go down; a ninja never shows his strongest techniques unless it's necessary. Kakuzu doesn't opt in releasing his masks until he plans on getting serious and wants to end the battle [
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] why wouldn't they engage in cqc off the start of the match.
I'm going to break this down for you.
the technique pain used requires the user's chakra [
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] and a body as a sacrifice [
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]
only a single body was used to create the kisame clone [
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]
this means that the samehada clone was made purely out of kisames chakra that was given to pain (what is a mizu bunshin made of? Kisame's chakra)
this samehada clone made purely of kisames chakra had several of the real samehadas qualities such as only being loyal and held by kisame (samehadas sensory ability), as well as freely moving on it's own [
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][
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]
the samehada clone didn't show any chakra absorption ability as kisame was fighting team gai... A team that doesn't really incorporate any chakra usage. Throughout the fight, no ninjutsu was even used. Despite not getting the chance to showcase it's chakra absorption capability, the clone showed some other samehada qualities and abilities, which i stated above. This should be more then enough proof that a mizu bunshin clone of samehada is capable of the very same. Also, samehada was knocked off of kisame by gai, when he used the mizu bushin. Explaining why they were not on the mizu bushin. Here, we see gai knocking away samehada, and then mizu bushin being created[
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].we then see it returning here after the mizu bushin were created [
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]
i don't see kakuzu going underground, but rather just a limb. Just because his narrow and small arm and threads were capable of going underground and travel a considerably fast speed doesn't mean kakuzu as a whole can accomplish this. Certainly not as fast, anyways. And even if he can, without any sensory abilities, kakuzu won't be able to see or know of kisames movements while on the contrary, kisame will know of kakuzu's granted by samehada. Thus, countering kisames in this area is not very likely, nor is it a good strategy. Funny you didn't post the scan of kakuzu being feinted by base naruto a few manga pages after [
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] so what were you saying about kakuzu dealing with clones? :|
you misunderstood me. I didn't mean that kisamehada will be on the surface on the water; i meant that even kakuzu being on the surface, he wouldn't be able to outrun kisamehada swimming below the surface. And no, this is all taken place on the huge lake hence the title.
A simple counter for earth grudge fear v2 is the great shark bullet... Which will absorb all of kakuzu's chakra and potentially take out a heart in the process. And yes, kisamehada gains all of samehadas ability, so he can self heal himself.
Thought so.
And i debunked your refutation once again. So, again, kisamehada making contact with kakuzu means all his chakra being drained.
Lmao, have you forgotten all of kisames capabilities? Kisame while fused with samehada gains sensory abilities, which means he will without a doubt sense the chakra within the masks. So of course he will aim to take them out as it takes no genius to realize this is part of kakuzu's arsenal. Kakuzu and the masks swimming in separate directions accomplishes nothing as kisamehada can fire off shark bombs, gsb, and shark summons, all of which that can swim much faster in the wd.
So then what made you think the masks will be escaping the wd by swimming in separate directions. :|
no i wasn't. The db disagreed with you. All the fuuton would accomplish on the outside is pushing the wd. It's pressured damage can't be implemented unless it's within the wd, as it would push out throughout the entire dome causing it to disperse. From the outside, it will only hit one side of the dome, and knocking down a bunch of dead hollow tree's isn't an impressive enough feat to say it will overcome kisames chakra control and make it disperse. At most one goes to his aid? Is that why
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of them has shown to come to his aid? Lmao, now you're denying manga facts. You didn't prove shit bro. Even if he can, you're not taking into consideration that chakra absorption=death as well. Either way, kakuzu is done in the water dome.
This Music MUST Be Played While Reading A Post From A God
[video=youtube;r57lteobjkU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r57lteobjkU[/video]
Now Then....
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Time For You To Die....>..>
I didn't ignore anything. You're under the impression that I meant Kakuzu breaths threw his lungs, which I didn't state anywhere in my post. I can't prove to you how exactly Kakuzu obtains oxygen, but it's clear he does it. Else how would he keep the hearts "alive" and beating? Unless you're suggesting that these hearts are not in fact operating which would mean they're "dead" which couldn't be the case, else how else would he utilize it's nature affinity? He wouldn't. The hearts must remain alive and operating to maintain these abilities much like Sasori's human puppets [
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] So, I will ask you, how exactly are the hearts being kept alive and operating without the intake of any oxygen (which the heart needs)?
Yes indeed i was under that impression...However your still not making sense, Clearly the hearts of the Masks are alive and well, and able to perform jutsu, U_U Now again clearly there are no Veins, Lungs or Blood for that matter to carry oxygen into the heart, which means there is no viable way ..that oxygen is filtered out of the air, and pushed into the heart, No lungs means that the heart would be ingesting all the other chemicals in the air as well U_U No veins and Blood mean's that there is no way for the oxygen to enter the heart...Conclusion? He keeps them alive with the chakra he pushes through each heart's chakra system, Since i am the the one coming up with a conclusion while your asking me questions, it seems that he can indeed live without oxygen. The fact that your trying to apply real world logic in a battle with a Shark Man and a Rag-doll is astounding, especially when i already took a direct quote that stated that Kinjutsu are "Techniques that violate the laws of nature" LAWS OF NATURE E.G Heart's SURVIVING WITHOUT OXYGEN, also that Human puppet thing made no sense, it simply said that his puppets retain the chakra system and chakra they had when they were alive ...Also Sasori already stated that he takes the blood and entrails out from the puppets in an earlier scan
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so your pretty much proving my point
And you're using an unconfirmed example, in saying Sasori doesn't need oxygen to remain alive. Never ever confirmed. And actually, the fact that Sasori did in fact bleed after his core was pierced, confirms that he has blood circulating within him (the hearts job) So real world logic is being applied here with the hearts functions, but it doesn't apply with how the heart is kept operating? Kay. Then why didn't Sasori's heart or core continue to function after being pierced? Real world logic applied here also.
Real world logic? Not really Sasori was able to talk and move long after his heart was pierced
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(a full chapter) No one in the "real world' Can survive that long without a heart,
Obviously the heart was needed to stay alive, but oxygen was not needed to keep the heart operating, that is why he died when he was pierced through the heart.
, Are you comparing an attack from a weapon of the Sage's that clearly has a much farther range to that of Kisame's normal Shark Bullet :|.
Kisame made it clear that the V2 cloak was
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. So, yes, that would mean that it would take Samehada a longer time to absorb it in addition to Bee's incredible V2 Bee. Unless you're implying Kakuzu's raiton contains more chakra then Bee's V2 form, I don't see where you're getting at here. And activate what exactly? It doesn't take any time for Kisame and Samehada brace themselves for an upcoming attack nor do they need to "activate" anything to absorb chakra.
when he DID absorb a V2 cloak, don't take everything everyone says so literal. What made you think i was saying Kakuzu's raiton would overwhelm Kisame with Chakra? I provided the fact that Kisame could not absorb the V2 cloak as a testament to how he needs to activate the absorption process, which means he can still be taken off guard with speed.
And Kakuzu would ambush Kisame from behind despite him never showing to do so? I think you're overrating the speed of which his masks can travel. Even so, you so foolishly believe Kisame will stand and watch Kakuzu release his masks and just stand there without doing anything. Kisame obviously would expel his Suiton: Bakusui Shōha or use his Mizu Bunshins at the very least; which'll eliminate any possibility of Kakuzu ambushing Kisame from behind... something that he has never done nor seems capable of doing.
Oh god...are you saying that because Kakuzu was never shown to ambush someone ...he can't? Your wrong on both parts regardless but still awful logic. Kakuzu ambushed Kakashi here
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He's also shown to utilize his advantage in numbers by using a Wind + Raiton Combo one after another
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Hidan said it was a combo of theirs. What the hell is a suiton going to do? Not like he goes into water dome right when he uses it, Kakuzu's plan would still work Raiton will be fired and another heart will appear behind him and attack him with a jutsu U_U. Ahh being Naive again are we..don't undermine the hearts speed. The Wind heart was able to fire a jutsu in mid air
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and then immediately appear right back at Kakuzu's side
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its the one with the wings So yes his speed is indeed capable of getting behind Kisame. Clones? Clones are not saving Kisame from an ambush attack this size
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Lmao, huh? No proof he could actually do that... Are you Ray Charles to the manga scans? He did it here as well while merging [
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] So you're saying Kisame can't partially merge with something he can fully merge with? Makes sense. And no his threads will not ( Nope, no, they certainly can not which I'll get to later) Assuming Kisame doesn't create Mizu Bunshins, which you find so far-fetched to occur.
Alright so he can merge partly, Don't know why he wouldn't simply fully merge, and his threads indeed can because i already know your wrong U_U
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Where does the DB mention the tree's being crushed? It specifically says the tree's are being knocked down... and how are the tree's being knocked down? By the tremendous blowing force. This is clearly not something that will cause the WD to disperse from the outside.
Oh my ... you clearly did not read it "When it impacts, RAISES THE AIR PRESSURE TO THE EXTREME and what does extreme pressure do? Crushes you :| Come on, apparently you did not want to use real world logic This Time
So Kisame spawning a Shark Bomb beside the masks in slower then the time it'll take Kakuzu to realize what he's in and use his fuuton mask? Okay. Zabuza was able to utilize his Mizu Bunshins [
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] a considerable distance away from his real body [
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] He most likely created it from the water within his mist. So I see no reason why Kisame can not spawn his Shark Bomb at any location within his chakra made water source.
Oh my again...And i assume he could spawn anywhere due to mist as well :|
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lol no, the mist hid his spawning and moving of his clones, just like it did his own movements, nothing of what you said is correct
Lmao, you're right.. Kisame opting in facing Kakuzu and 4 masks capable of unleashing powerful elemental techniques without utilizing his Mizu Bunshins among other suiton techniques is completely and utterly ridiculous :| C'mon now.
When did i ever mention Mizu Bunshins here .. And I'm the one losing it My katon strategy still works
So because the fireball isn't completely aimed at Kisame, He won't take any precautions despite this being a battle to the death? So Kisame will assume that Kakuzu is firing of a fireball for no apparent reason other then to waist his chakra? Laughable.
Or that he simply missed or misfired, he's fallen for much simpler things then that
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a rigged spiked ball :| I wouldn't be laughing
Kisame will in fact take any procedure necessary (Chakra absorption, Countering with Suiton, or going underground) to rid him of this threat. Honestly, just cut this crap. This is weak.
Lol No he really would not, what Suiton does he have that can counter such an immediate eruption..none that i know of, Going underground he gets pawned under there..You doubted that later on as well so i'll save why for then
That's not how it works. Firing a Katon into water doesn't leave holes in it, lol. It will simply evaporate the water, as in, causing the dome to become smaller. Which is countered by simply adding more water into the dome, as I stated before. And Kisame's chakra is constantly holding it together, so in order for Kakuzu to get out, he would have to make it disperse altogether.
Oh really, pretty sure that only happens when the heat is displaced throughout the whole body of water U_U This is not the case only one place of water will be exposed to the heat...just look at how he got rid of Kakashi's suiton ..it pushed right through it
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did not just steadily shrink it :| One could even argue that it would continue to push through the water dome
If what you say were to be the case, then explain to me how the masks are able to freely move on their own with the ability to spot their targets. Without Kakuzu manipulating them himself via transmitting his chakra to the threads, this would mean the masks have some type of sensory ability to track down their targets. An ability they obviously do not have seeing Kakuzu doesn't possess it himself. So it is questionable to me which way he manipulates these masks. Either way, Samehada will be able to absorb the chakra. A single swipe completely stopped Naruto from perform his summoning technique [
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]-[
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] So yes, Samehada is able to absorb chakra even if it's not physically present.
Completely wrong on that last example (will counter the rest after) as you can see his Kyuubi chakra needed to perform the Summoning is indeed physically present
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Kishi just did not draw them because Kisame absorbed it immdiatly So no Kisame can not absorb chakra that is not physically present, And how you ask, does he activate the hearts on his own? By pushing chakra through the threads you say..Nope dead wrong he pushes his chakra through the chakra tubes of the heart he puts into the Masked bodies
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So i do believe your still wrong..Samehada is not stopping the threads
They're actually not, seeing as you thought Samehada isn't able to absorb chakra that isn't visibly and physically there. As long as chakra is being used, Samehada can absorb it. So nope, Kisame dominates in this field.
Lmao, you mean after Kakashi took out one of his hearts? He didn't use it against his fight with the Izumo and Kotetsu either. Furthermore, this is how fights in Naruto go down; a ninja never shows his strongest techniques unless it's necessary. Kakuzu doesn't opt in releasing his masks until he plans on getting serious and wants to end the battle [
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] Why wouldn't they engage in CQC off the start of the match.
If its a CQC fight you want Kakuzu is winning, i have already proved that Kisame is not absorbing the threads, besides Two random Fodder Leaf Ninja =/= Fellow Akatsuki member
I'm going to break this down for you.
The technique Pain used requires the user's chakra [
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] and a body as a sacrifice [
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]
Only a single body was used to create the Kisame clone [
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]
This means that the Samehada clone was made purely out of Kisames chakra that was given to Pain (What is a Mizu Bunshin made of? Kisame's chakra)
This Samehada clone made purely of Kisames chakra had several of the real Samehadas qualities such as only being loyal and held by Kisame (Samehadas Sensory ability), as well as freely moving on it's own [
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][
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]
The Samehada clone didn't show any chakra absorption ability as Kisame was fighting Team Gai... a team that doesn't really incorporate any chakra usage. Throughout the fight, no ninjutsu was even used. Despite not getting the chance to showcase it's chakra absorption capability, the clone showed some other Samehada qualities and abilities, which I stated above. This should be more then enough proof that a Mizu Bunshin clone of Samehada is capable of the very same. Also, Samehada was knocked off of Kisame by Gai, when he used the Mizu Bushin. Explaining why they were not on the Mizu Bushin. Here, we see Gai knocking away Samehada, and then Mizu Bushin being created[
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].We then see it returning here AFTER the Mizu Bushin were created [
First off it reacting on its own and staying loyal to kisame means shit, because as you can see with Kisame the doppelganger of whatever was cloned still retains the personality and physical traits of the person who the clone is of. Not Kisame still retained his immense strength
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actually there was a time where absorbing chakra would of been handy
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paper bombs require a seal made of chakra that explodes...Now as you state Kisame has a field of absorption similar to Preta's so by your logic it should of been absorbed ..which it clearly did not. No this still proves nothing, I'd let the judges decide on what is correct
I don't see Kakuzu going underground, but rather just a limb. Just because his narrow and small arm and threads were capable of going underground and travel a considerably fast speed doesn't mean Kakuzu as a whole can accomplish this. Certainly not as fast, anyways. And even if he can, without any sensory abilities, Kakuzu won't be able to see or know of Kisames movements while on the contrary, Kisame will know of Kakuzu's granted by Samehada. Thus, countering Kisames in this area is not very likely, nor is it a good strategy. Funny you didn't post the scan of Kakuzu being feinted by base Naruto a few manga pages after [
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] So what were you saying about Kakuzu dealing with clones? :|
You mean a Kakuzu that was two hearts down? And was clearly trolled by plot? If you want to play dirty go right ahead and say what the clones are going to do their easily countered, Not to mention Kisame lacks the speed to get behind Kakuzu like that, nor will Kakuzu have to be in mid air at any time..Kakuzu's hearts>>>Kisame's clones they get erradicated by them regardless. Going underground do you not notice the giant beating heart
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..Now what are his creatures made out of? thats right one heart as well they can go under ground easily, and as a matter of fact Kakuzu can stay above ground and simply fire Jutsu from underneath U_U Kisame can sense it sure but for how long could he react to it? Nah underground = bad idea for Kisame
You misunderstood me. I didn't mean that Kisamehada will be on the surface on the water; I meant that even Kakuzu being on the surface, he wouldn't be able to outrun Kisamehada swimming below the surface. And no, this is all taken place on the huge lake hence the title.
I watch English dub bro, don't really know the foreign names all that well. Anyways so if thats the case then Kakuzu merges via some of his threads to a heart and takes flight..as the threads have already been shown to mesh and merge
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A simple counter for Earth Grudge Fear V2 is the Great Shark Bullet... which will absorb all of Kakuzu's chakra and potentially take out a heart in the process. And yes, Kisamehada gains all of Samehadas ability, so he can self heal himself.
From what a removed Heart? Not likely Lol was waiting for this GSB is countered rather easily actually, Its already shown that it can be dispersed with something as measly as compressed air, Kakuzu can counter this by attacking with all 8 clumps of thread at the same time
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not only would this punch holes through the bomb but he could then rip it apart from the inside, not that hard really
And I debunked your refutation once again. So, again, Kisamehada making contact with Kakuzu means all his chakra being drained.
Lmao, have you forgotten all of Kisames capabilities? Kisame while fused with Samehada gains sensory abilities, which means he will without a doubt sense the chakra within the masks. So of course he will aim to take them out as it takes no genius to realize this is part of Kakuzu's arsenal. Kakuzu and the masks swimming in separate directions accomplishes nothing as Kisamehada can fire off Shark bombs, GSB, and shark summons, all of which that can swim much faster in the WD.
And when he does this at the hearts Kakuzu rips his guts out lml, thats a smart idea not to mention i've already proven how they would not get caught in the first place, also due to how they fly about when the water dome is activated they could also be in completely different places then kakuzu and Kisame, making it much easier to escape..however i like your idea of Kisame focusing on the hearts..makes my life easier
So then what made you think the masks will be escaping the WD by swimming in separate directions. :|
Because i did not think you would be stupid enough to take Kisame's attention off of Kakuzu lol
No I wasn't. The DB disagreed with you. All the fuuton would accomplish on the outside is pushing the WD. It's pressured damage can't be implemented unless it's within the WD, as it would push out throughout the entire Dome causing it to disperse. From the outside, it will only hit one side of the dome, and knocking down a bunch of dead hollow tree's isn't an impressive enough feat to say it will overcome Kisames chakra control and make it disperse. At most one goes to his aid? Is that why
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of them has shown to come to his aid? Lmao, now you're denying manga facts. You didn't prove shit bro. Even if he can, you're not taking into consideration that chakra absorption=death as well. Either way, Kakuzu is done in the Water Dome.
Except you have not even proved how Kisame absorbs Kakuzu's chakra Surly you don't mean that pathetic excuse for a jutsu GSB? as its easily countered as i said, so Kisame is going to try and do this
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to Kakuzu? Then its game over as Kakuzu can have threads extend from his mouth as well
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Which he would then rip into Kisame's face with ending him .....
Yes indeed i was under that impression...However your still not making sense, Clearly the hearts of the Masks are alive and well, and able to perform jutsu, U_U Now again clearly there are no Veins, Lungs or Blood for that matter to carry oxygen into the heart, which means there is no viable way ..that oxygen is filtered out of the air, and pushed into the heart, No lungs means that the heart would be ingesting all the other chemicals in the air as well U_U No veins and Blood mean's that there is no way for the oxygen to enter the heart...Conclusion? He keeps them alive with the chakra he pushes through each heart's chakra system, Since i am the the one coming up with a conclusion while your asking me questions, it seems that he can indeed live without oxygen. The fact that your trying to apply real world logic in a battle with a Shark Man and a Rag-doll is astounding, especially when i already took a direct quote that stated that Kinjutsu are "Techniques that violate the laws of nature" LAWS OF NATURE E.G Heart's SURVIVING WITHOUT OXYGEN, also that Human puppet thing made no sense, it simply said that his puppets retain the chakra system and chakra they had when they were alive ...Also Sasori already stated that he takes the blood and entrails out from the puppets in an earlier scan
I'm assuming you meant wider range, as the shark bomb can be used for a mid ranged attack as the fan. And it doesn't necessarily only have to be Shark Bombs; it could be a technique with wider range such as the
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, which can be used in order to implement many Shark Bombs coming from many different angles out of this pump of water. Similar to when Kisame implemented his Water Prison within the Mizu Bunshins [
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] This combo will surely make for an unpredictable assault on his masks; especially when it can be coupled by a few Mizu Bunshins.
Lol well obviously he proved himself wrong here
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when he DID absorb a V2 cloak, don't take everything everyone says so literal. What made you think i was saying Kakuzu's raiton would overwhelm Kisame with Chakra? I provided the fact that Kisame could not absorb the V2 cloak as a testament to how he needs to activate the absorption process, which means he can still be taken off guard with speed.
So now you're comparing Samehadas absorption capabilities to that of Kisame ( who has his own innate chakra absorption capability [
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] ) fused with Samehada? As if it's not blatantly obvious that the fused Kisame and Samehada has greater absorption capabilities then individually.
I'm going to post this again so you can fully understand why Samehada who can only absorb [
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] worth of Bijuu chakra (manga fact) isn't comparable to the absorption rate of Kisamehada;
Forbidden Technique said:
The rate of which Kisamehada can absorb chakra is often very overlooked. In fact, the amount and time it takes Kisamehada to absorb chakra is obviously superior to that of Samehada alone, but more or less comparable to that of Preta Paths.
Preta Path
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Kisamehada
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Take note; it took roughly around the same amount of time for both Kisamehada and Preta Path to remove Bee's V2 chakra.
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While it can be argued that Kisamehada didn't absorb as much as Preta Path in that given amount of time, due to the fact that Bee still had his chakra cloak; Just understand that while Preta Path completely caught Bee by
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, while Bee was being resistant and fighting Kisamehada back by partially transforming into the Hachibi [
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] Thus, pumping in more chakra which resulted in prolonging the process in which Kisamehada completely absorbing the Hachibi's chakra.
Despite Bee's efforts of trying to not allow his chakra to be drained, Kisamehada was still able to not only completely absorb Bee's V2 state, but he also managed to absorb Bee's chakra cloak as well as the partial Hachibi transformation [
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] Far exceeding Samehada limitations of 6 tails worth of bijuu chakra.
Thus, the end result remained the same. A lifeless Bee; and a chakra-less Bijuu
@ Bold- That's a nice contradiction between your points you got there. You said that Kisame proved himself wrong when he said that the V2 was too much to consume by successfully absorbing the V2 chakra... then you said you provided the fact that Kisame wasn't able to absorb the V2 chakra as a testament to why the raiton would be too fast for him. All while comparing Samehada and Kisamehada's absorption capabilities as if they were equal. Make up your mind here, because these weak points aren't adding up.
Oh god...are you saying that because Kakuzu was never shown to ambush someone ...he can't? Your wrong on both parts regardless but still awful logic. Kakuzu ambushed Kakashi here
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He's also shown to utilize his advantage in numbers by using a Wind + Raiton Combo one after another
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Hidan said it was a combo of theirs. What the hell is a suiton going to do? Not like he goes into water dome right when he uses it, Kakuzu's plan would still work Raiton will be fired and another heart will appear behind him and attack him with a jutsu U_U. Ahh being Naive again are we..don't undermine the hearts speed. The Wind heart was able to fire a jutsu in mid air
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and then immediately appear right back at Kakuzu's side
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its the one with the wings So yes his speed is indeed capable of getting behind Kisame. Clones? Clones are not saving Kisame from an ambush attack this size
Lol the same awful logic you've been using throughout this debate? It's funny how you initially bring up the Masks doing the ambushing on Kisame then when I bring up the fact that the Masks haven't shown to the capability of flying that fast (as in faster then their attacks) to accomplish an ambush, you use Kakuzu who was doing the ambushing as an example as to why the Masks can do it. Then you ignore the fact that every time Kakuzu utilized his masks was in parallel to his target(s) [
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]-[
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]-[
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] In fact, even when Kakuzu had the perfect opportunity with Kakashi surrounded [
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] ( Because Kakashi jumped in between them [
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] ) He didn't even opt to ambushing Kakashi with the Raiton Mask, but instead he proceeded with a frontal attack once again [
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] And, oh, nice; Use the fuuton mask returning to Kakuzu side as a speed feat. How iimpressive :| You can clearly see the fuuton mask popping up behind Hidan [
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] on the same hollow tree Kakuzu kicked Kakashi in [
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] ... Which wasn't far away at all! So the fuuton mask traveled up then down to Kakuzu's side.... Wow, you must be joking.
What the hell is a Suiton going to do? Lmao, what a silly question. I don't know... maybe protect Kisame from getting hit from Kakuzu's elemental attacks? A GSB will take care of every elemental attack Kakuzu throws at him.
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will provide him with a huge wave to counter any upcoming katon, and/or provide Kisame with shelter and faster access to the rest of his suiton techniques.
Alright so he can merge partly, Don't know why he wouldn't simply fully merge, and his threads indeed can because i already know your wrong U_U
Why would he fully merge if he is still on land (assuming he is because Kakuzu wouldn't be grabbing Samehada in the WD) That doesn't make too much sense. And Lmao, we'll see about that. *_*
Oh my ... you clearly did not read it "When it impacts, RAISES THE AIR PRESSURE TO THE EXTREME and what does extreme pressure do? Crushes you :| Come on, apparently you did not want to use real world logic This Time
Oh Zexion, Lmao you kill me sometime. Do you understand what air pressure is? You seem to think it only compresses. Air pressure is the force exerted by air; either compressed or unconfined (free). If you read the Databook clearly, it's obviously referring to an unconfined air pressure as it specifically states the knocking down of trees. NOT crushing down trees. And you can clearly see the direction of which the air is
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by looking at the air blast as well as the way it is blowing at Ino-Shiko-Cho. Not at all compressing down on them.
Oh my again...And i assume he could spawn anywhere due to mist as well :|
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lol no, the mist hid his spawning and moving of his clones, just like it did his own movements, nothing of what you said is correct
I should of known this was going to be easily countered. Allow me to use a better example this time. Kitsuchi was able to use his Sandwich Technique from quite a far distance away [
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] and before you go on stating that we do not know how far exactly was Kitsuchi away from the Mazo; take a look at the fodders in front that were hit by the lightning. None of which were Kitsuchi who was a considerable distance
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. Not even taking into account that his chakra had to travel on the earth to his desired spot. When Kisame is in the the WD he is in a water source created by his own chakra, which in essence, goes back to him using the Water Prison within his Mizu Bunshin [
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] ... Only this time, Kisame is using Shark Bomb(s) within his Suiton: Dai Bakusui Shōha (Water Dome) Therefore, there is no reason why a spawn point for his suiton has to be right beside him.
When did i ever mention Mizu Bunshins here .. And I'm the one losing it My katon strategy still works
"this way would be before Kisame uses a suiton kakuzu would fire his Katon at the ground near Kisame"
Mizu Bunshins is a suiton technique. You assumed here that Kisame wouldn't use any of his techniques, but rather watch Kakuzu release his 4 masks and shoot a fireball at him. LOL, this strategy is illogical.
Or that he simply missed or misfired, he's fallen for much simpler things then that
Sheesh, you're right... Kisames a total idiot. Even though the most analytical characters in this manga have fallen for practically the same thing [
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] [
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] Please. :| And you act as if Kisame wasn't able to avoid it.
Lol No he really would not, what Suiton does he have that can counter such an immediate eruption..none that i know of, Going underground he gets pawned under there..You doubted that later on as well so i'll save why for then
which he executed before Gai could reach him from point blank range or a simple
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ZzZz ... Anything else?
Oh really, pretty sure that only happens when the heat is displaced throughout the whole body of water U_U This is not the case only one place of water will be exposed to the heat...just look at how he got rid of Kakashi's suiton ..it pushed right through it
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did not just steadily shrink it :| One could even argue that it would continue to push through the water dome
Maybe it pushed Kakashi's suiton back (While evaporating it *notice the mist*) because it was far too weak and no where near enough water in comparison to the fire that was boosted from the fuuton...? Another weak point. In fact the Katon+Fuuton stalemated against the Suiton+Fuuton [
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] and turned into a
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Just in case you didn't know, Mist=Evaporation. So when Kakuzu's Katon Fuuton combo hits the larger WD, the water will evaporate... not at all creating holes.
Completely wrong on that last example (will counter the rest after) as you can see his Kyuubi chakra needed to perform the Summoning is indeed physically present
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-
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Kishi just did not draw them because Kisame absorbed it immdiatly So no Kisame can not absorb chakra that is not physically present, And how you ask, does he activate the hearts on his own? By pushing chakra through the threads you say..Nope dead wrong he pushes his chakra through the chakra tubes of the heart he puts into the Masked bodies
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So i do believe your still wrong..Samehada is not stopping the threads
In the very scan you provided you can clearly see before summoning Gamabunta, the Kyuubis chakra wasn't physically shrouded around him. The chakra remained
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, absolutely no visible chakra shroud before summoning bunta. The same applies when Samehada absorbed Naruto's chakra [
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] No visible chakra shroud was surrounding Naruto prior to starting the summoning ritual. In addition, notice how Naruto said "
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" which doesn't just imply he can't feel the kyuubi's chakra, it means he can't feel his as well. And as we all know, Naruto's own blue chakra doesn't shroud around him and becomes physical, it remains within him; yet Samehada absorbed that as well. Furthermore, Kisame and Samehada did it again against Bee
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; absolutely no chakra was present but what's inside Bee. So, again, yes, Samehada is absorbing the chakra within the threads, nullifying it's manipulation.
If its a CQC fight you want Kakuzu is winning, i have already proved that Kisame is not absorbing the threads, besides Two random Fodder Leaf Ninja =/= Fellow Akatsuki member
But he's not.. According to the DB Kisame has a slight edge in taijutsu. With Samehadas chakra absorption capability and Kisames super-human strength; Kakuzu will easily be overwhelmed just as the faster taijutsu master Gai did.
First off it reacting on its own and staying loyal to kisame means shit, because as you can see with Kisame the doppelganger of whatever was cloned still retains the personality and physical traits of the person who the clone is of. Not Kisame still retained his immense strength
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actually there was a time where absorbing chakra would of been handy
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paper bombs require a seal made of chakra that explodes...Now as you state Kisame has a field of absorption similar to Preta's so by your logic it should of been absorbed ..which it clearly did not. No this still proves nothing, I'd let the judges decide on what is correct
Exactly! The doppelganger is also bestowed with all of the originals abilities as well!
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So thanks for proving my point for me. Samehada's clone has all of it's originals abilities. Not even mentioning the fact that Samehada realizing that Gai wasn't Kisame, as well as locating and swimming back to Kisame, is a sensory ability (An ability of the original [
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], not a personality trait. And no, your example of Samehada not absorbing the paper bombs seal of chakra, is not a viable reason as to why Samehada doesn't have it's absorption capabilities. As you can see in that very scan you provided, Kisame had no clue it was there. Unfortunately Samehada doesn't take it upon himself to absorb chakra; this was proven when the raiton pencil passed right by Kisame without being absorbed [
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] Kisame didn't see it coming, thus he didn't prompt Samehada to absorb it. This is also confirmed to be the case when Nagato was about to blast Bee with a chakra blast [
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] and Samehada didn't take it upon itself to absorb the chakra. So because Kisame didn't realize explosive tag until it was exploding, he didn't prompt Samehada to absorb the chakra, neither did Samehada take the initiative to do it himself either.
You mean a Kakuzu that was two hearts down? And was clearly trolled by plot? If you want to play dirty go right ahead and say what the clones are going to do their easily countered, Not to mention Kisame lacks the speed to get behind Kakuzu like that, nor will Kakuzu have to be in mid air at any time..Kakuzu's hearts>>>Kisame's clones they get erradicated by them regardless. Going underground do you not notice the giant beating heart
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..Now what are his creatures made out of? thats right one heart as well they can go under ground easily, and as a matter of fact Kakuzu can stay above ground and simply fire Jutsu from underneath U_U Kisame can sense it sure but for how long could he react to it? Nah underground = bad idea for Kisame
Funny you weren't playing that same Kakuzu being two hearts down and plot card when you stated "his threads can deal with clones
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" Then when I provided the scan of Kakuzu getting feinted a few pages after, you want to go ahead and shrug it off as plot :| And the Mizu Bunshins can easily get behind Kakuzu by swimming underwater/underground; they can even attack from underneath the surface as well as above at the same damn time. And lmao? Did you hear yourself when you were coming up with that tactic of the Masks going underground and shooting their elemental attacks? By doing that, they will only blow themselves up as nearly all of them deal with "making contact with something" then the real attack hits by escalating in power e.g. the fuuton and katon mask. So that means the AoE would be right on the masks, resulting in them dying. So you got a good tactic there. Make it easier on Kisame. *_*
I watch English dub bro, don't really know the foreign names all that well. Anyways so if thats the case then Kakuzu merges via some of his threads to a heart and takes flight..as the threads have already been shown to mesh and merge
What the hell...? So now your giving Kakuzu feats that he's never shown to be capable of doing? You think with all that battle experience he'd go airborne after concluding that he must avoid getting hit by Naruto's FRS at all costs [
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]? But instead he remains on the ground and gets feinted by Narutos Kage Bunshin feints not once, but twice. Obviously Kakuzu doesn't have the capability of going airborne. That's a bit ridiculous that you think he can. And on the contrary, Kisame did in fact show the capability to go airborne;
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Contrary to the popular belief, Kisame can in fact go airborne. One may argue that unlike in the Anime, rather then flying away; Kisame actually swam away in the manga [
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] Only problem with this is the fact that there was nowhere for Kisame to even swim to [
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]
Regardless if Kisame did in fact swim away in the manga or not, it's unimportant. As Kisame has shown other means of going airborne.
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His shark summon was able to go in a aerial state within a small dome like structure of water. Operating much like the Water Dome, Kisame will be able to go airborne within this smaller dome of water. Depending on the speed of which he can swim, is how fast he'd be able to travel in the air. Which, I must say; Is pretty fast [
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] ...even without the fusion of Samehada.
So even if Kakuzu does in fact go airborne (which he most certainly can't) Kisame can match him, and even travel faster in the air then Kakuzu can.
From what a removed Heart? Not likely Lol was waiting for this GSB is countered rather easily actually, Its already shown that it can be dispersed with something as measly as compressed air, Kakuzu can counter this by attacking with all 8 clumps of thread at the same time
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not only would this punch holes through the bomb but he could then rip it apart from the inside, not that hard really
Lmao at Kakuzu even getting the chance to manipulate his tendrils to rip Kisamehadas heart when his chakra is being drained upon contact of Kisamehadas body at an alarming rate; which means not tendril manipulation. Not a chance in hell of that happening.
As far your counter goes for GSB... I'm honestly dumbfounded. A) the compressed air was chakra less (GSB's weakness) B) His tendrils won't punch "holes" threw the enormous mouth of the Great Shark Bullet [
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] when comparing the GSB's size to Kisame; the GSB will simply devour the threads. C) How the hell is it going to "rip" water apart when the tendrils will simply exit right threw the GSB. Kisame's chakra is holding the GSB together. Much like the WD, to destroy the GSB, you have to disrupt Kisames chakra control.
And when he does this at the hearts Kakuzu rips his guts out lml, thats a smart idea not to mention i've already proven how they would not get caught in the first place, also due to how they fly about when the water dome is activated they could also be in completely different places then kakuzu and Kisame, making it much easier to escape..however i like your idea of Kisame focusing on the hearts..makes my life easier
Dumbfounded... once again! Wtf? Lmao. So all of the sudden Kakuzu is going to catch Kisame by surprise despite his gained sensory abilities? As if Kisame hasn't dealt with more then one targets at once before? [
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]-[
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]-[
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]-[
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] Even without his sensory abilities while fused with Samehada. Please just stop. Then you keep ignoring the fact that Kisamehada WANTS Kakuzu to make contact with him [
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] So by Kakuzu restraining Kisamehada via his tendrils he gets all his chakra drained out of him... what part of that's a bad idea don't you understand?
In addition, even if the masks DO manage to escape before getting caught in the WD, they will be easily caught even outside of it. The WD moves as fast as Kisamehada can swim [
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] Which is certainly faster then what the Masks have shown to move. This means, by moving in the direction of the masks, the WD will engulf them as well. Not even like that is necessary; soon as Kakuzu is dead out of chakra, the masks will fly to his aid, right into the WD where Kisamehada will make fast and easy work with them GG Kakuzu
Because i did not think you would be stupid enough to take Kisame's attention off of Kakuzu lol
Except you have not even proved how Kisame absorbs Kakuzu's chakra Surly you don't mean that pathetic excuse for a jutsu GSB? as its easily countered as i said, so Kisame is going to try and do this
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to Kakuzu? Then its game over as Kakuzu can have threads extend from his mouth as well
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Which he would then rip into Kisame's face with ending him .....
I already proved why making contact with Samehada via tendrils is GG for Kakuzu, but I'm going to reiterate myself once again so hopefully you get it into your head this time.
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By making contact with Samehada via tendrils his chakra will be absorbed away from because Kisamehadas absorption capabilities are nearly on the same level of Preta Paths!
READ!
The rate of which Kisamehada can absorb chakra is often very overlooked. In fact, the amount and time it takes Kisamehada to absorb chakra is obviously superior to that of Samehada alone, but more or less comparable to that of Preta Paths.
Preta Path
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Kisamehada
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Take note; it took roughly around the same amount of time for both Kisamehada and Preta Path to remove Bee's V2 chakra.
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While it can be argued that Kisamehada didn't absorb as much as Preta Path in that given amount of time, due to the fact that Bee still had his chakra cloak; Just understand that while Preta Path completely caught Bee by
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, while Bee was being resistant and fighting Kisamehada back by partially transforming into the Hachibi [
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] Thus, pumping in more chakra which resulted in prolonging the process in which Kisamehada completely absorbing the Hachibi's chakra.
Despite Bee's efforts of trying to not allow his chakra to be drained, Kisamehada was still able to not only completely absorb Bee's V2 state, but he also managed to absorb Bee's chakra cloak as well as the partial Hachibi transformation [
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] Far exceeding Samehada limitations of 6 tails worth of bijuu chakra.
Thus, the end result remained the same. A lifeless Bee; and a chakra-less Bijuu
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Chakra being drained = no tendril manipulation = no way of harming Kisamehada = chakra being completely drained = dead Kakuzu
Hot damn.... Bruce Faulconer's soundtrack came into play here?! Sorry Zex, but the background music for FT was a lot better then yours. Can't beat the Prince Of Saiyan's Theme.
