EjBlack vs Prince Charles (Sasori vs Hebi Sasuke)
- Thread starter Brother Numpsay
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Brother Numpsay
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Conclusions Concerning Hiruko
Here are your points paraphrase that you mention:
"-Blunt force is not needed. Chidori Spear is "enough" just to pierce through"
Here is where you ignored my point when dealing with piercing to force Sasori out:
(Underlined)
Piercing Hikuro is ineffective due to lack on knowledge of Sasuke thinking that Hiruko is his main body. (Chiyo explains to Sakura/ she figured that much of it, that this isn't Sasori real body which concludes it "not being obvious"). With lack of knowledge penetrating from long distance will just give Hiruko the edge to shoot Sasuke, (due to his focus of his chakra manipulation reaching in) before ejecting out due to not feeling pain from the penetrating attack.
-"Chiyo and (Chiyo controlling)Sakura can dodge them, what makes you think Sasuke can't?"
You must of not read my post right, I never made a claim that Sasuke cannot. My premise was that Sasuke still falls victim due to lack of knowledge Hiruko's unorthodox traps, regardless of having superior speed and reaction.
I already explained that it was not due to their speed that Chiyo and Sakura dodge the attacks, it was because on Chiyo's vast knowledge on how Hiruko's booby traps funtions (which help them predict Senbon spam:
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-"All those spoilers you see above show lady chiyo capable of dodging hiruko's attacks, an old fragile woman:"
I already explain above but I want to use Chiyo's witty comment for that statement:
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-"Lady chiyo already elaborates on how CQC is a a puppeteer's weakness"
Remember thats why Hiruko was built for, to counter its weakness (If you read the rest of her statement or at least the judges):
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-"This lady is demonstrated when sakura gets in radius of hiruko and smashes it to pieces"
Didn't I just post a scan of its reaction time, and the fact that he doesn't have to look to even block and strike things but to elaborate more. Sakura still wouldn't have been successfully it Chiyo use chakra strings to block the tails movement from striking Sakura for getting close (Their Tag Team helped counter the Tail specifically):
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-"The knowledge on hiruko's moves does not play a huge role here. Btw your somewhat wrong when you say the sharigan cant see objects well. kakashi suggest he could keep up with the fast attack frequency of the sharp chakra needles from FRS"
For your first sentence I will leave it to the judges as I use 3 sources/facts to disprove that Hirukos attacks plays an important role of predicting. The next sentence only proves what the manga already shown to prove. Kakashi was able to predict movements from ninjutsu's, no where in the manga suggested non ninjutsu base attacks/ strictly mechanical and movements can be predictable easily (example on bottom, where Sasuke couldn't predict Bee sword movement and style and became a victim):
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Summary considering Hiruko:
-Vast knowledge on Hiruko booby traps works plays an important role on how to defend with its unorthodox booby traps (Which I post countless of proof)
-Sharingan can not predict mechanic the same it can predict human movement and chakra base ninjutsu. Sasori lacking human nerves and ninjutsu, also for Hiruko's unorthodox traps can still give him a chance to catch Sasuke by surprise.
-With these condition it will not be easy for Sasuke to bypass without specific counters that made Sakura and Chiyo successful. (especially the Left Brace arm that shoots 360 and Scorpion Tail up close.)
With that said judges, will Sasuke really not get nicked before reaching Phase Two (3rd Kazekage) for fighting Sasori? Yes, I know it is VERY QUESTIONABLE, which I was aiming for from the start U_U
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ON TO ELABORATING ON PHASE TWO
This isn't nonsense at all to bring this point up. I was merely bring up options on what Sasori can do. If Sasuke bypasses Hiruko, Sasori intellect will decide how to counter Sasuke's speed (Since we can conclude that agree that his speed is the game factor.)
So again with Sasukes katana in play Sasori has two options.
1. Used the Magnetism to slow down Sasuke if any attempts to win with Speed by pushing the object away ("for holding metal")
2. Used the Magnetism to remove Sasuke's CQC arsenal.
Sasori can use attempt one first since no knowledge will throw Sasuke off then and left to get attack due to its speed. Then decide to remove his arsenal right after.
Thats great to know the things I already know. I did analyze the scans. Except that they are irreverent since Magnet Release is the main problem here more then the rebuilding and reconstruction of Iron Sand. Sasuke will always be pressured to the Magnetism. You also fail to mention that Sasori can make two Sand boxes one can be for attacking while the other one can wait for the next move:
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Somewhat true but I already give a premise concerning that. Sasuke is doom in the end since he cannot do nothing in this position as I mention. Sasori can use Iron Sand to make no space for him to keeping dodging. And by manipulating the Sand, he can make it sharp so running around the area will be his Doom. So in the end Sasuke can't run forever.
The forming doesn't take long as you want to claim it is. To claim that Sasuke will shoot three fireballs in the air before any of it happens is preposterous. IT even leaves him wide open right after the attack. Hiding underground was the best fit for Sasuke, giving location. Not that it matters as they are indoors while all his fire release with no Amaterasu helping out build Kirin.
Sasori Thinking Outside The Box: The Beauty Of "Overlooking Things"
I am going in further depth to explain that Sasuke is screwed due to the power of Magnet Release.
Lets look at the beauty of Hiruko attacks:
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As you may notice, look at all the Senbons Sasori left behind, coated in poison. While they are on the ground and shot everywhere due to him spraying them everywhere, dodging these attack still benefits Sasori due to Magnetic Release.
Since the some sebons are left behind the battlefield Sasori can still take advantage of the Magnetism to ob tract it back to him via behind Sasuke's direction. Since Sasuke doesn't have 360 field vision, Using the Iron Sand to keep Sasuke focus on will result to scratching him from behind still with senbons.
Conclusion:
-Sasuke no counter other then to keep dodging Iron Sand and hoping Karin works in his current position and heat condition.
-Iron Sand blocks attacks and Magnetism ruins every plan Sasuke hopes to survive and win
-Sasori Magnetism is the game factor with various of things he can do to at least get a scratch to Sasuke even meaning "thinking outside the box"
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PHASE THREE, WHEN IT WAS ALREADY OVERKILL
Ok judges I am sure you are convince that it ends when the 3rd Kazekage but I decide to go out to make a "hypothetical situation" where he has to use his final result.
If by chance Sasuke manages to beat phase two, Sasori using himself dominates. Everything that Sasuke has use to manage to "hypothetically defeated" the 3rd Kazekage will be useless to try to do to Sasori. To simplify it for you:
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I expect the person I am debating to use the "Sasuke knocking "1000" shinobi argument, but I expect you to believe it is irrelevant then Sasori using this to take down a whole country. With Sasori intelligence analyzing everything Sasuke is capable of, can use sheer numbers to take advantage.
These puppets can float and they move swiftly for themselves so from that conclusion shows that it won't be easy for Sasuke to dominate as he did with 1000 shinobi's here is a conclusion:
-There is no guarantee that a single slash of Sasuke's sword (assuming he even gets it back) can dispatch one puppet; he may use Chidorigatana to increase his lethality, with Sasori should already be familiar with now in battle
-1 scratch still spells death for Sasuke, and while he conceivably has some chance of getting through the first two steps unscathed, he will inevitably be overwhelmed by 100 opponents
-It stands to reason that as Sasuke dispatches more of Sasori's 100 puppets, Sasori's attention will be more focused on his remaining puppets. What this means is that Sasuke may at first find himself holding his own against the 100 puppets, only to be caught surprise by a sudden increase in their skill level due to Sasori's increasingly focused control.
I still expect for my opponent to underrate Sakura and Chiyo being successful.
-Chiyo saved Sakura from being overwhelm the 10 forbidden puppets played an important role to reduce from being overwhelm. Her seal also stop thee rest of the puppets from continue from being controlled.
-And even after all that after match they still managed to get scratched.
If Sasuke wants to try to Shishun Sasori/ getting close to him to finish him off. Sasori previous analyses would make this futile. He would either use the following attacks (If he tries to out run swift puppets that can float around and can move very fast themselves):
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Or he can use this razor offensive and defensive without getting close to Sasuke:
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With all that said, after viewing Sasori's power and intelligence, Sasori takes on Hebi Sasuke with MODERATE difficulty
Prince Charles
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Brother Numpsay
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Prince Charles
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deadline? I thought this was a continous debate? How do you expect me to get turnt up wens theirs a dead line.
Brother Numpsay
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This is what I quote post #4.
Second sentence was for someone else but it showed my availability. Thats why I mention in the thread for being short period then continuous due to me and judges availability
Brother Numpsay
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DemonicAvenger
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Im talking about real fighting games mah' nigguh
come at me in some SSF4:AE, U.MvC3, or SFxT. (Im undefeated in Storm 3 and Storm Gen with my mains though)I was O Line and D Line. Right Tackle and Nose Guard respectively.
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I can probably still judge. I'll go to the library before work tommorow.
Im talking about real fighting games mah' nigguh
I was O Line and D Line. Right Tackle and Nose Guard respectively.
______
I can probably still judge. I'll go to the library before work tommorow.
Mortal Kombat and street fighter both suck imo, tekken is the only one im good at
DemonicAvenger
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You take that back
Street Fighter is boss. Im pretty good at Tekken. I use Devil Jin, Jin, Kazuya, Lars, and Heihachi
Prince Charles
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Brother Numpsay
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Brother Numpsay
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judges if you read this this is Prince Charles last eight o you can judge right after. if it is not post today you just go ahead and start judging
edit: microphone post sucks
edit: microphone post sucks
Prince Charles
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My aplogogies I dont really have the time to debate as much because summer is near over and school is almost starting back up.
But ill try to wake up early in the morning and post my last argument.
But ill try to wake up early in the morning and post my last argument.
Prince Charles
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I want to say something, I honestly think you're going a tab overboard with the extent of knowledge regarding hiruko. While I it was helpful in Lady chiyo's case, many ninja have shown to deal with certain situations where they have no knowledge on their opponent and still manage to pull off a win. So as you can see even if sasukes knowledge is limited regarding the true body of sasori that does not strict him the obligation of analyzing his opponent as shown against Deidara and figure out the situation. Sasuke has already shown the necessary requirements to evade hirukos trap and destroy him.
Keeping that in mind I will not dwell on the part of your posts going over hirukos role and chiyo's knowledge I will be countering the main parts of your post.
Keeping that in mind I will not dwell on the part of your posts going over hirukos role and chiyo's knowledge I will be countering the main parts of your post.
How did you come to the conclusion that just because sasuke does not know hiruko is the main body will stop him from using chidori spear? I already went over the distance with you. Sasuke will not be attacking from long range when he can easily close the gap between his opponents[
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]. CS already covers a 5m distance, before sasori even knows it sasuke will cut hiruko in half. Obviously you have no idea what you're talking about. Lady chiyo having knowledge on hiruko was not the only factor in her being able to evade the needles and the traps, her reaction and speed obviously had to be above normal to be able to evade the needles even with knowledge. Thats like saying konohamaru could had evaded the traps just because he had knowledge on hiruko even when he's slow as a slug which isnt the case here.
You're not taking into consideration of sasukes curse mark here. sasuke's snake summons[
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] would be a reliable counter in regards to hiruko tail.And I as said hirukos attacks don't play a main role here. It would seem that way considering you showed the scan of sasuke getting stabbed. Before that scan we clearly see Sasuke being capable of keeping up with Bee's sword attack[
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][
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].Honestly Im surprised were still discussing hiruko here.
Indeed it is.
I already explained this. If sasori were to use magnetism on the katana, anyone with common sense would realize that the katana is the pinpoint of the source of the magnetism. The katana will obviously be moving due to the magnetism hinting to sasuke that he should ditch it.
The sand boxes havent shown such speed feats that would suggest that they would be capable of catching sasuke.
He doesnt have to run around. You're not taking into consideration that he can easily take flight with the use of his wings.
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How long the forming takes doesnt change the fact that he will be able to take advantage of the time gaps. You got it all wrong, I meant after he evades the iron world he will easily shoot 3 katon dragon's up into the air[
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]. I dont see how this is indoors when sasori and lady chiyo fought outside as well.. Also you got it all wrong. Amaterasu simply made the process faster[
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]. Amaterasu is not needed to prep kirin, it was already noted that his dragon katons can make thunderclouds[
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].Obviously your not taking into account of the sharigans Prog[
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] As sasuke demonstrated attacks coming from behind will not always succeed. Not too mention I can probably find scans of ninja dodging kunai from behind their backs. Even by chance if sasuke got injected with poison he can always use orochimaru's body shedding technique.How is it irrelevant? You talk of sasori having sheer numbers at his advantage but sasuke took on 900 other opponents at the same time without killing them. So keeping that mind sasuke does not simply get overwhelmed. Those puppets also dont have jutsu as the 1000 shinobi did so saying the puppets would be a harder task is 50/50 as seeing both the puppets and 1000 shinobi clearly have advantages over each other.
Note - I didnt counter everything you said because I simly Didnt have the patience or desire to, I don't really have the passion for debating anymore as I use to.:dunno:
Brother Numpsay
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Brother Numpsay
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Alright this is not going to be in depth due to the screaming 7 year old in my ear U_U
Anyway's EjBlack Hounded PC with the argument of Hiruko being more useful then most think from the very beginning, and honestly PC never really fully countered it, EJ was right in saying that the knowledge did indeed play a large role in why the two Kunoichi broke through, Sasuke seeing an arm being launched and expecting a large group or senbon to launch at him enough so he can dodge it is very unlikely, Also the distance between Deidara and Sasuke at the start of their fight was def. Not 5 meters, that was almost laughable, Now as for the third Kazekage, the only thing you said was going to beat the iron sand was Kirin, Most of your argument was dependent on speed and shunshin's which Hebi Sasuke is indeed strong at but it does drain his stamina, which inevitably slows him down in the long run, EJ's usage of the needles in the ground was great however i'm a little skeptical as to why Sasori did not do that himself,
Anyway's if i said something weird its because again, i have this annoying yelling in my ears -.-
So My vote goes too: EJblack, He gave many reasons on how Sasori defeats Sasuke, yet PC only really gave one and that was Sasuke's best move Kirin, which i too do not think he would be able to do while avoiding iron sand world order, don't forget its range was limited due to the cave walls there's nothing to suggest it could not go farther,
So Ya my Vote for EJBlack
Anyway's EjBlack Hounded PC with the argument of Hiruko being more useful then most think from the very beginning, and honestly PC never really fully countered it, EJ was right in saying that the knowledge did indeed play a large role in why the two Kunoichi broke through, Sasuke seeing an arm being launched and expecting a large group or senbon to launch at him enough so he can dodge it is very unlikely, Also the distance between Deidara and Sasuke at the start of their fight was def. Not 5 meters, that was almost laughable, Now as for the third Kazekage, the only thing you said was going to beat the iron sand was Kirin, Most of your argument was dependent on speed and shunshin's which Hebi Sasuke is indeed strong at but it does drain his stamina, which inevitably slows him down in the long run, EJ's usage of the needles in the ground was great however i'm a little skeptical as to why Sasori did not do that himself,
Anyway's if i said something weird its because again, i have this annoying yelling in my ears -.-
So My vote goes too: EJblack, He gave many reasons on how Sasori defeats Sasuke, yet PC only really gave one and that was Sasuke's best move Kirin, which i too do not think he would be able to do while avoiding iron sand world order, don't forget its range was limited due to the cave walls there's nothing to suggest it could not go farther,
So Ya my Vote for EJBlack