NB Team Debate League Round 2: Susano'o vs (¬‿¬)

[pateuvasiliu]

Susanoo lost, lel.

The beginning team has 24 hours to post their first argument. This should avoid unnecessary delay in the tourney. Also, extensions will not be given, since each team has five members, which should allow them to make their post, even if one or two go M.I.A.

 

[Solo]

How soon can we expect the opening post? We're 6 and a half hours past the deadline for it already.

I don't mind allowing extra time, but if we do this in every debate thread it's going to make this tourny last far too long.

I have it typed out and saved, but I'm really waiting for my team to look over it. I guess they went to sleep. I didn't finish until around 9. Started around 4.

Not trying to hold up the tournament or anything, but it takes a couple of hours for me to come up with an opening. Plus, it's a LONG post. 10,500 plus Characters.

 

[pateuvasiliu]

Also, extensions will not be given

 

[EliteKakashi]

I have it typed out and saved, but I'm really waiting for my team to look over it. I guess they went to sleep. I didn't finish until around 9. Started around 4.

Not trying to hold up the tournament or anything, but it takes a couple of hours for me to come up with an opening. Plus, it's a LONG post. 10,500 plus Characters.

I don't too much mind the wait myself, but these were rules that were agreed upon by the tourney members. Dunno how Anub and the rest of my team will feel about it.

It would suck for something so detailed to go to waste. Next time just post your debate. Your team leader picked you, I imagine, because he trusted your ability to debate. If you've done the research and put the time in to type up a 10,000+ character opening, you shouldn't need your team to look over it for you, sounds like you did just fine, lol.

 

[Solo]

I don't too much mind the wait myself, but these were rules that were agreed upon by the tourney members. Dunno how Anub and the rest of my team will feel about it.

It would suck for something so detailed to go to waste. Next time just post your debate. Your team leader picked you, I imagine, because he trusted your ability to debate. If you've done the research and put the time in to type up a 10,000+ character opening, you shouldn't need your team to look over it for you, sounds like you did just fine, lol.

But we're a team. There are things my teammates might see, that I might not. 5 heads are better than 1, after all.

 

[Solo]

I don't too much mind the wait myself, but these were rules that were agreed upon by the tourney members. Dunno how Anub and the rest of my team will feel about it.

Nonetheless, I agree.

 

[kakashi owns all]

solo just post your arguement

it looks better that you were 7 hours late then 17 hours late ...

 

[Solo]

Alright, let's begin. Deidara, A member of the famous, Akatsuki. Onoki, The Third Tsuchikage. Only a fool would underestimate them. Our goal is simple, "Capture the Nine-Tails". Jiraiya knowing our goal would simply die trying to protect Naruto.

Location Advantage:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

As the OP stated we are standing on the 1st Hokage. And the other team is 5th Hokage. Again, the distance stands in our favor because it gives us the first move with Jman/Naruto being Close Combat Ninjas. Sage Mode Naruto is pretty fast, but the distance also prevents him blitzing. Also, Onoki is able manipulate the Hokage Mountain with his Earth Style.

With that being said, with Naruto being the strongest he will most likely try defending for Jiraiya until Jiraiya can reach Sage Mode. Therefore, we'll need to separate Naruto from Jiraiya. Deidara can take to skies as always, and can attack with a few homing bombs(C1). I don't believe C1 will kill Naruto, but tanking them won't do him any good either. Once analyzing of speed is done the true planning can begin. Notice how he analyzed Sasuke from the start of their match:

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

Meanwhile, Onoki can separate Jiraiya by doing

You must be registered for see links

sending him up. Remember, Deidara homing bombs would cause Naruto to move from his location.(C1) Either jumping toward another location(head), jumping down from head into the village. Possibly defend with one of his moves, but Naruto isn't the focus. It's truly Jiraiya. Jiraiya is apart of the legendary Sanin after all. It'll be foolish to underestimate them.

Well.. Jiraiya could just jump down? Not while Onoki's Jutsu is motion, gravity would keep him grounded as he is moving up. Well.. Jman can jump after the jutsu is done? True, but don't underestimate Onoki's speed.

You must be registered for see links

So if Jiraiya himself, Onoki can just weight him down.

If Jman attempts to jump using a summoning, then he will be blitzed by Particle Style or at least his summoning. I know Jman isn't willing to sacrifice a Toad? Is he?

Once it's noticed that Naruto is pretty speedy by Deidara C2 is his best bet:

You must be registered for see links

If Jiraiya manages to escape. C2 Missiles will seriously mess Jiraiya up. Seeing him in his Normal state, I don't see him dodging it. Especially not the blast radius. Causing him to jump and move even further from Naruto, if not being severely damaged. Onoki can then proceed with

You must be registered for see links

. While Naruto blitz the clones,

You must be registered for see links

Onoki can weight him down then cut off legs/arms later. Also, while Naruto is busy with Clones, I'm going to say he can survive C2 with Naruto's durability feats at most with mid to high injuries. So again, that is another option for us to play with. Using highly strong attacks that would normally kill someone is one of our advantages.

Naruto should have the speed to dodge them, but Onoki can also catch him by

You must be registered for see links

in the ground with Earth Style: Mobile Core. Then sending in C2 Bombs on Naruto. And capture him.

What is the point in separating them?

You must be registered for see links

Can't have that, can we?

Now lets break these characters down:

Summonings:

I do not see them summoning any HUGE summonings as long as we are on Hokage mountains. Even if they decide to destroy the village to use their summonings, then using Particle Style or C2(or higher) for would be efficient of to damage their Summonings.

Even several small bombs inside the mouths of summonings would prove a threat. Onoki can weight down the summonings. I can't comment much because I don't know how you all plan to use summonings. They have many options with dealing with summonings though.

Chief Toad
He'll put a fight because he has feats. His oil and Fire Jutsu combo with Jman will hard to avoid if they jump. Probably the best bet at beating them. Do you really think Chief Toad big ass can sit on the Hokage's head? On top probably, but not from the Hokage head. He can only be summon to the village or top where Sasuke/Hokage/Taka/Orochi was.

You must be registered for see links

If my guys are flying HIGH near the Hokage Mountain, then we still have aerial advantage.

You must be registered for see links

If they attempt to jump, Onoki can once again shut them down or just weight down the toads. Or launch a few C2's. Since they are not as big as the summoning, Chief and other will have a hard time hitting someone or something so small. Too move faster, Onoki can hop on with Diedara on the C1 or C2 Bird/Dragon and make it

You must be registered for see links

Proof:

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

Keeping out of Range:

Basic Info:
It's suicidal for a guy like Deidara(well he is suicidal LOL.. so stupid) to even engage in close combat. Onoki is not really a close ranged fighter himself. More like a somewhat close to mid range. What I mean by somewhat close, because Onoki usually attacks up close when he's confident his attack will one shot them.

Naruto and Jiraiya only chance at attacking them is to jump. Jumping still isn't a good idea because, when they jump they can't change direction in mid-air. Actually, Naruto can seeing he can use clones to throw himself. That would only aid to run down his Sage Chakra. Or he may run into one of Deidara's Clay Clones or Onoki as he weight him down. As Deidara and Onoki can simply move the side to side, so jumping is not a good idea. If that's how they plan to attack aerial fighters.

A kunai could set Deidara's bombs off, but I don't believe Naruto/Jman carry many of them. Their only options to attack long range. Jiraiya has a few fire techs, which could set off Deidara's bombs. Either way it's not a good idea, but it's an option. It's not a good option, because they might be within the Blast Radius if they try to intercept the bombs. Needle Jizo Senbon is another option(If he able to obtain Sage Mode, which I doubt), but it we had to defend against it Earth Style: Mobile Core can also act as a shield for them. If they are in sky, simply move away. And Naruto's Rasenshuriken is tricky, but I'll explain that later. Very dangerous attacks, but easy to mid difficult to avoid from a distance. Even more dangerous if they combine the attacks because it might increase the range of the jutsu when it expands. Fire/Wind works well together..

Rasenshuriken
Rasenshuriken is actually a simple attack to dodge, because it can't change directions when thrown. No doubt trying to hit an aerial opponent will be twice as hard. Rasenshuriken fails against grounded ninjas:

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

Trying to hit a moving opponent in sky will be near impossible. So their best chance will be to catch them off guard. Catching one off guard is easy, but two? Seeing as if Naruto catches either Onoki or Deidara off guard their opponent could always intervene on the attack itself. With C2 bombs, or Particle Style.

Sage Mode:

Jiraiya
Deidara is very observant person:

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

P.S. With Deidara's scouter, hiding inside the village is no no. As he'll see if they so happen to do such.

Back to topic, being the observant person, he would not allow Jiraiya to hustle of something because it's pretty obvious he is planning something when see his hands is together. While Jiraiya won't be able hide as I pointed out. Onoki, however, with

You must be registered for see links

Naruto
Lets analyzed Naruto's Sage Mode. Since he doesn't have clones prepared he is only allowed Sage Jutsu he posses. Even current Naruto, do not be fooled, it's not limited. Naruto has never showed over 3 Clones in Sage Mode. At most, only two. Also, with current feats, Naruto is limited to 3 Rasenshurikens:

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

Though this info might not be known to our Stone peeps, but it will be a sudden drift in Naruto after his Sage Mode is over. Then it'll be child's play knocking Naruto's out.

Reinstatements:
- Being Aerial Fighters with Long Range attacks. Basically allowing them to control the air.
- Jman/Naruto have very limited long range attacks. Still, all are easily avoidable if not planned right.
- Jman not being Sage Mode gives Onoki the ability to one shot. Neither will they let him enter Sage Mode.
- Summonings can easily be one-shotted. Chief Told might put a fight, but he will fall.
- Deidara is actually observant.
- Locational Advantage.
- Many, many, many one shot attacks.
- I've set up ways for not knowing Sage Mode, but still able to prevent Jiraiya's Sage Mode.
- Distance Advantage


@Zexion.. I decided to post it. They're right... we're waay behind on deadline. I just hope it's good.

 

[Edo Odin]

It's fine, don't worry about it. This wouldn't be as fun if we just follow the rules to their fullest, it's no big deal.

We'll make our post in a bit.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

I hope they post today so I have time to do it before I go to work tomorrow

 

[Solo]

I hope they post today so I have time to do it before I go to work tomorrow

There is no counter to my opening post.



GGs (¬‿¬)

 

[EliteKakashi]

There is no counter to my opening post.



GGs (¬‿¬)

We're just compiling the ways to say forfeit in every single language known to man. That's what is taking so long.

 

[Solo]

We're just compiling the ways to say forfeit in every single language known to man. That's what is taking so long.

 

[Fresco]

I hope they post today so I have time to do it before I go to work tomorrow

Perhaps this could have been avoided if your boy would have posted within the desired time.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Perhaps this could have been avoided if your boy would have posted within the desired time.

Well I dont want to suffer the same fate as TailedSage's team debate so I might end up giving the middle to someone else in my team.

My cat just died today (3 hours ago) and I might be busy working tomorrow. I don't want my personal life interfere so lets see what happens tomorrow then.

 

[Solo]

Perhaps this could have been avoided if your boy would have posted within the desired time.

Life isn't a promise. Trying to a get a debate in under 24 hours isn't as easy as it seems. I could have posted it as soon as I finished, but as I stated I wanted my team to check it out before posting anything.

Started my debate around 4 didn't finish until 9. Not only that, you want your teammates to check out your post before posting anything. You could be wrong on some things.

You must be registered for see links

Each of my teammates have different time/things going on. Researching not two, but four characters. Since NarutoBase have a couple of broken links, I have to search for manga sites that's not regional locked.

Not only that I kept you guys updated as I was typing it out. Because I was late doesn't justify you guys being late. If you got things going on, understandable. Late on posting because I was late? Childish reasonings. Don't jump to conclusions, I'm not saying this your reasoning. Not trying to be douche either, your post is kind of offensive. Take your time, Guys. I'm in no hurry.

 

[Edo Odin]

Don't worry, I believe the post should be up pretty soon, so it should all be good.

I've been wondering whether the time limit of the matches in the tourney should be lengthened...? The time limit seems to create some problems for a lot of people, especially considering that if we have only 72 as a whole, it means that you only have 12 hours to make your post, and since a lot of us have jobs or other things to do, this can be pretty tough, especially considering that, as Solo said, most people want to check up with their team before posting. (One of the reasons our post has not yet been posted) Anyways, just wanted to see what the general opinion of people would be if the time limit in the tourney as a whole would be lengthened a bit? Anyone agree/disagree?

 

[pateuvasiliu]

If you ask me, a smaller time frame makes the debater shine.

Everyone can make a 10 pages post with every feat the character has ever performed, but an experienced debater knows exactly what and where to search for.

In other words, a good debater will be able to create an argument faster, so I feel like having a small reply time lets these debaters shine.

 

[kakashi owns all]

Don't worry, I believe the post should be up pretty soon, so it should all be good.

I've been wondering whether the time limit of the matches in the tourney should be lengthened...? The time limit seems to create some problems for a lot of people, especially considering that if we have only 72 as a whole, it means that you only have 12 hours to make your post, and since a lot of us have jobs or other things to do, this can be pretty tough, especially considering that, as Solo said, most people want to check up with their team before posting. (One of the reasons our post has not yet been posted) Anyways, just wanted to see what the general opinion of people would be if the time limit in the tourney as a whole would be lengthened a bit? Anyone agree/disagree?

36 for a op and then 108 total is the tops that it should be, but i like it as is best

 

[Anub]

Don't worry, I believe the post should be up pretty soon, so it should all be good.

I've been wondering whether the time limit of the matches in the tourney should be lengthened...? The time limit seems to create some problems for a lot of people, especially considering that if we have only 72 as a whole, it means that you only have 12 hours to make your post, and since a lot of us have jobs or other things to do, this can be pretty tough, especially considering that, as Solo said, most people want to check up with their team before posting. (One of the reasons our post has not yet been posted) Anyways, just wanted to see what the general opinion of people would be if the time limit in the tourney as a whole would be lengthened a bit? Anyone agree/disagree?

Giving the fact that it's a team debate, the time frame should NOT be an issue. 5 members per team can mean 5 people with different time zones, different schedules and different lives. Someone out of those 5 can post. If they don't post, what's the point of lengthening the tourney? Yes, 1-2 debaters will always be busy. That's what happens in every tourney. I've created this to avoid that. For example in my team, Varrah was supposed to give the opening statement last match. But time was running out and Varrah was unresponsive. So instead, MilwaukeegHost stepped in...just like that, no problems. If you're waiting for just 1 person to post then it defeats the whole purpose of team debate.

But do whatever you want. It's not my job anymore to hold this together.