Why The Sage Could Not Possibly Have Belonged To Any Ninja Clan

[NarutoKage2]

Sage had a 3rd son who was uzumaki but obito omitted that

Lol doubt it, the uzumaki almost certainly descended from the younger son.

 

[Fermion]

Quite nice but your's is contradictory to mine so I can't agree with you...lol

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At the end it's all upon Kishi theories will remain theories...

 

[NarutoKage2]

Quite nice but your's is contradictory to mine so I can't agree with you...lol

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At the end it's all upon Kishi theories will remain theories...

I like to base my theories on logic and reasoning, as opposed to spamming pretty pictures. No offense, btw.

Read your theory, i could possibly have agreed however you make one huge flaw:

The manga clearly states that the Rikudo saved the world from the Juubi's destructive powers. It does'nt have any emotions, true, however it does have destructive potential which it used in the past. Also, splitting up the 10 tails would then be pointless according to your theory as then that would promote war even more. So the sage would be considered a war mongerer instead of a 'savior' lol.

Also, The Sage basically gave his two sons and their descendants their kekkei genkai, so its more likely that he was the origin of bloodline limits not the Juubi.

 

[FearxDeath]

I am going to give you a counter to everything you said, now these counters to me are why you are wrong and as always you will probably respond with this or that and it will boil down to us just disagreeing, but from a logical point of few these are my problems with your thread. I wont respond to all of your sections because some are just filler.

1) A Clan is a family, and the SO6P did come from a clan because he was born. Now I guess the real question is whether he derived from one of the ninja clans we have today. TO that I would say it is possible, the most credible so far is the Uzumaki/Hyuga theory was is extremely possible. Uzumaki would explain his strong body which has been passed down to the senju. And Hyuga would fit also since they always have, and still do, only use taijutsu along with there doujutsu. He discovered the true meaning of chakra, with the help of the byakugan which has unparalleled insight into chakra. This doujutsu was altered and passed down to the Uchiha.

2) The seal the SO6P created to seal the bijuus was the same seal that was passed down to the uzumaki. Kurama says SO6P because it is infact his seal, and it is also an Uzumaki seal, the question is whether the 2 terms are mutually exclusive and as of right now they are not.

3) The section where yuo mention the Naruto Clan, you should know that that translation has come under alot of speculation but as far as I am concerned character testimony is a 2 way street. To believe that you must then believe Kakashi when he says the Sharingan is a offshoot of the byakugan. Personally I believe Zetsu is wrong or at the least mistaken and that is if that translation is even correct.

You also say that it is possible because Uzioshagure is close to konoha or something along those lines, but dont forget that the Uzumaki village was founded long before konoha was established.

In regards to the Senju clans fionjutsu the vice versa is just a possible, it is mere conjecture that all relies on what zetsu said which as I said above is weak evidence at best.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

There were no Shinobi Clans before Rikūdo founded Ninshū, but even before that, Rikūdo's era was an age of endless war and strife, and the predominant faction that engages in war are clans, albeit non-ninjutsu wielders, familial clans definitely existed back then which are the progenitor of the present day Shinobi clans

How can a derivative of the Senju, be the predecessor of the senju...................

Uzumaki is a bloodline root of the Senju. How could the Sage be an Uzumaki if his bloodline of Senju is what gave birth to the uzumakis....

There is a great misconception in Zetsu's statement in chapter 606 saying that Nagato is a descendant of the Senjus because he is of Senju Lineage:

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It is not Zetsu's statement that is erroneous but the interpretation of others, if we take the translation of lineage based on the context of Zetsu's statement in conjunction with Kushina's statement in a previous chapter, the most accurate meaning of lineage, based on context, is the anthropological definition of the word: Kinship/Consanguinity:

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Kushina said the Uzumakis and Senjus were distant relatives, the true intended meaning of the word "lineage" based on the context of Zetsu's statement was : Consanguine of being related by blood, not Nagato descending from the Senjus : Nagato is a blood relative (lineage) of the Senju.

If the Senjus and Uzumakis descended from the same ancestor (Younger Son) then they will be close/immediate relatives, not distant relatives like Kushina said, which would contradict her statement and Manga canon, so it's logical to assume that the present day Uzumakis are "cousins" to both Senju and Uchiha since they did not descend from Rikudou himself but from Rikudou's relatives.

Also the original Japanese text of Zetsu in 606 is this:

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The original Japanese word that Zetsu used was "血縁" or Ketsuen which translates as "Blood Relative" NOT 子孫 or Shison which means descendant.

Anyone who can read Japanese will tell you that Zetsu's statement only meant blood relations but not pertaining to descent:

Sorry Sasuke2, but you're wrong. Try to read original Japanese manga Naruto especially if your theory is based on one word. Here:

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Here we have chapter you mentioned (Chapter 606):

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Now carefully look at Zetsu's words. Ser Derp Obito is right about this chapter. Zetsu used word 血縁 written in hiragana like this けつえん. And this word has only two meanings:
1) blood relative or relationship
2) consanguinity

Tbf while i agree with majority of what you have said and i can add certain things, you have wrapped it up.
BUT, the thing i have learnt from this manga is that, kishi is an inconsistent, contradictory and hypocritical writer. From the abyss of his rectum he can pull fresh shit out.

You're just angry Tobi didn't turn out to be Izuna, which you adamantly theorized before Lol

 

[david098]

uzumaki were not a shinobi clan but a clan of priest/monks/pacifists?

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Others insist that the Uzumaki Clan descended from the Younger Son, this is simply not true, one of the simplest reasons they couldn't is the Clan's trademark red hair.


We have here the Younger Son who clearly doesn't have red hair, in fact if we look at the anime depiction, the hair color is black:

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And his descendants (Hashirama, Tsunade, Tobirama, Nawaki,etc.) didn't have red hair:

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Then suddenly there's a "descendant" clan (Uzumaki) of the Younger Son whose pure blooded members (Naruto is half) all have red hair??? doesn't make sense. Obviously the Uzumakis like ancient clans practice "inbreeding" that they have always had red hair:

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(Pure Blooded Uzumakis)

Taking Biology into account, hair is one of the most consistent genes, and having the same color of hair in a clan who inbreeds is true. It doesn't make sense that a "descending" clan could develop such an unorthodox hair color if the original hair color was a different color. The interbreeding clan (Senju) would have to have red hair, or a strong dominant gene for it, but the Senjus don't, and red hair in itself is a recessive gene in humans.

Another thing is the place of origin of the Uzumakis: The Land of Eddys.

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(Red Square is Uzushiogakure)

If they were a descendant clan of the Younger Son, then why do they live in another country? The Senjus and Uchihas' origins have always been in the Land of Fire even before the foundation of Konoha:

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Not to mention the Uzumaki Clan's non-participation in the First Shinobi World War:

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The Uzumaki's absence and apathy to the war indicates distant blood relationships. not close blood relationships with the Senjus.

In fact, the Uzumakis weren't even the first ones who joined the village:

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It's because they only have distant ties with the Senjus, not to mention they lived in a whole different country.

Thus proving Kushina's statement that they were only distant blood relatives:

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And let's think about this logically: If the Uzumakis descended from the Younger Son, then they would be a "sibling clan" to the Senjus, and two sibling clans who share the same common ancestor would be considered a close relative not distant.

Lastly, we need only to look at the history/inspiration behind the Uzumaki Symbol:

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The Spiral


The Spiral Symbolism is one of the most ancient (if not the most ancient) spiritual symbol known to man. Dating back to the prehistoric era.

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(The Triple Spiral: Ancient Symbols dating back to the Megalithic and Neolithic Era)

And since the Uzumaki Village is known as the Village of Longevity:

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Then it only stands to reason that the Uzumakis are older than both Senjus and Uchihas.

The Uzumaki Clan therefore are not descendants of the Younger Son, but a cousin clan to both Senjus and Uchihas.

You may ask then if there really is a relationship between the Uzumakis and the Uchihas?

There is:

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The Uchiha Tablet was used with the Uzumaki Shrine Mask to unseal the Uzumaki Shiki Fuujin.

The Uzumakis are cousins to both Senjus and Uchihas.


The Senjus and Uchihas descended from Rikudou Sennin:

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The Uzumaki Clan descended not from Rikudou Sennin, but from Rikudou's Uzumaki Relatives.

Rikudou himself coming from the Uzumaki heritage:

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Thus making the Uzumakis a distant blood relative to both Senju and Uchiha as a cousin clan.


The Rinnegan came from the Juubi:

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That is why only the combination of the DNA of the direct descendants of Rikudou Sennin: The Uchihas and Senjus, could awaken the Rinnegan, because they have the Juubi's essence inside them.

The Uzumakis do not have the Juubi's essence, that is why they couldnt awaken the Rinnegan, they only have the immense Vitality, Chakra and Sealing Techs that Rikudou Sennin had prior to becoming the Juubi's Jinchuuriki.

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The formula then is:

Uzumaki(Rikudou) + Juubi = Senju and Uchiha

 

[david098]

if the uzumaki are related to senju that automaticly makes them related to uchiha if not directly then atleast through the senju

 

[Dęvîa Puęrî]

I agree simply because of how u put it love how u addressed everything btw
Also he's to old who says these clans even existed at his time I mean the senju and and uchia's eventually came from his younger and older son so I find it hard to believe any of the clans we see now even existed during his time

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

The Mokuton is the body of the Juubi:

Spoiler

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The Sharingan is from the eye of the Juubi:

Spoiler

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The Rinnegan is the Juubi's Eye (Sharingan) + Body (Mokuton) combined:

Spoiler

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The Uzumaki Heritage (Life Force + Sealing Jutsu) is Rikudou Sennin's original bloodline prior to becoming the Juubi's Jinchuuriki:

Spoiler

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Rikudou Sennin divided himself into Yin and Yang:

Spoiler

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The Juubi's Yin became the Uchiha:

Spoiler

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The Juubi's Yang became the Senju:

Spoiler

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The Senju and Uchiha then are the body and the eye of the Juubi

Therefore the equation is:

Uzumaki (Rikudou Sennin) + Juubi = Senju (Mokuton/Yang) and Uchiha (Sharingan/Yin)

 

[thunderthehybrid]

Rikudo is the father of all clans, or most

 

[Favorite55]

Why are you saying that Mokuton is a Senju thing.
There's only 1 Senju who uses it.

 

[SixPathsOfTobi]

There already was chackra and people using it for proto-ninjutsu. He just divined it's meaning and deloped ninjutsu.
Stuff like the hyuuga techniques predate other ninjutsu.
Newton defined Gravity. That does not mean that before the 16th century, everything floated freely into space.

I think before there where only idiotic humans that didn't know shit about chakra.. they were like us without (knowing about and thus using) such abilities.. with juubi being around.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Why are you saying that Mokuton is a Senju thing.
There's only 1 Senju who uses it.

The Mokuton is the ultimate manifestation of the Juubi's Yang power much like the MS and EMS are the ultimate manifestation of the Juubi's Yin power, in the Uchiha's side, only a few awoke the MS and EMS, in the Senju side, it was only Hashirama who awoke the ultimate manifestation of the Juubi's Yang Power: Mokuton.

The biggest misconception is that some assume there were no familial clans back then during the Sage's era who were non-ninjutsu wielders who became the ancestors of the present-day formally organized Shinobi Clans, that is simply not the case, the Rikudou Sennin was human, he most definitely belonged to a family: The Uzumaki Family/Heritage.

 

[Renpatsu Dei]

I agree, someone needed to address this people were starting to take it as fact

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

I'm not even going to counter your insulting fallacious/illogical reply since Res Ipsa Loquitur Lol, my advice to you NarutoKage2 is remember the mistakes from your past and avoid repeating them again like saying the Rinnegan not needing Senju DNA or that Kabuto even without Edo Tensei is greater than Hashirama.

 

[NarutoKage2]

Of course your not going to counter my arguments pervy kakashi, whoops i mean derp obito. After all you copy pasted this theory from another site(more or less) and to counter my points you'd actually have to think up of something on your own for once, and not spam random nonsense from google images.

And using old threads to attack my current points? Ad hominem, it does'nt help your argument my spammer friend.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Of course your not going to counter my arguments pervy kakashi, whoops i mean derp obito. After all you copy pasted this theory from another site(more or less) and to counter my points you'd actually have to think up of something on your own for once, and not spam random nonsense from google images.

And using old threads to attack my current points? Ad hominem, it does'nt help your argument my spammer friend.

I'm sorry but you are incorrect, you even misinterpreted Zetsu's statement that Lineage means descendant/descent when it means consanguinity. That alone is the final nail to the coffin of your theory.

Sorry Sasuke2, but you're wrong. Try to read original Japanese manga Naruto especially if your theory is based on one word. Here:

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Here we have chapter you mentioned (Chapter 606):

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Now carefully look at Zetsu's words. Ser Derp Obito is right about this chapter. Zetsu used word 血縁 written in hiragana like this けつえん. And this word has only two meanings:*
1) blood relative or relationship
2) consanguinity

 

[NarutoKage2]

I'm sorry but you are incorrect, you even misinterpreted Zetsu's statement that Lineage means descendant/descent when it means consanguinity. That alone is the final nail to the coffin of your theory.

Strong response, coming from someone who thinks large individual lifespans translate into an older historical clan. =D
Or that hair color changing from the original ancestor is unorthodox, its actually quite common and has happened to every human race on the planet.

Zetsu's statement is still valid if taken in its context. No where did you explain why the senju clan were mentioned as a pre requisite for the gedo mazo.

Deal with it bro, you're silly theory has been shot down and refuted. =D

Edit: Or maybe i should say the silly theory you copied from some random dude from another forum.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Strong response, coming from someone who thinks large individual lifespans translate into an older historical clan. =D
Or that hair color changing from the original ancestor is unorthodox, its actually quite common and has happened to every human race on the planet.

Zetsu's statement is still valid if taken in its context. No where did you explain why the senju clan were mentioned as a pre requisite for the gedo mazo.

Deal with it bro, you're silly theory has been shot down and refuted. =D

Nope, you are just refusing the evidence:

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The original Japanese word that Zetsu used was "血縁" or Ketsuen which translates as "Blood Relative" NOT 子孫 or Shison which means descendant.

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