Do you think Kakashi and Gai are now above the general Kage level? I think so

What do you think?

  • They are kage level but weaker than any of the current 5 kages

    Votes: 1 2.9%
  • They are kage level but on the same level as the current 5 kages

    Votes: 10 28.6%
  • They are kage level and stronger than any of the current kages

    Votes: 6 17.1%
  • They are stronger than majority of them, but not all(Onoki, Raikage for example)

    Votes: 13 37.1%
  • They are not kage level

    Votes: 5 14.3%
  • Only one of them is(who?)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other ...

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    35

Bogard

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Gaara said the only way to even stand a chance against Bijuus would be to form a shinobi alliance:
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But Kakashi and Gai were able to hold their own against those beast all on their own

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Gedo Mazo was destroying the alliance with each move he made:

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Yet Kakashi and Gai were able not only to restrict it, but push it back allowing Naruto and Hachibi to punch him on the floor:
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Fight against Obito:

Obito himself is one of the last villain of this manga if not the last, the strongest ninja alive currently, the harbringer of disaster even more of a threat than Kyubi according to Minato, a second Rikudo who even got Rinnengan, capable of
fighting multiple Kage level fighters at once when serious.

While fighting Obito alongside with Naruto, Kakashi and Bee/Hachibi, Gai has shown to be able to hold his own and even counter him accordingly despite his warping capacity in close combat:
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Kakashi on the other hand almost one-shoted Juubi's body if not Obito's intervention:

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And saved Naruto against Obito later:
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Kakashi is the one who understood the mystery behind Obito's technique:
No one before actually understood how Obito's jutsu really works not even geniuses like Minato or Itachi

And from there he became the major factor in the fight against Obito:

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Madara joins the battle:

After a long battle against Obito, Madara joined the battle. Madara by himself overpowered the 5kages without even trying to the point to leave them almost dead:
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Yet Kakashi, Gai along with Naruto and Hachibi were facing not only this man, but alongside with someone as powerful as Obito:
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Gai even sent him flying away for a chapter with a weaker version of Hirudora than the one used against Kisame probably because of his tiredness:

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Juubi joins the battle:

Later, Madara and Obito even got the Juubi, but Kakashi was still a major factor in the fight against it(saved Hachibi by warping him in kamui dimension and warp him back for a TBB attack later):
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Some time after, with Kyubi's chakra, when Juubi was going on rampage, Kakashi actually intended to make the Juubi vanish, but Obito was forced to interven and he was the one who was warped instead(actually they warped each other):
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This also turned the battle in a 1vs1 between Obito and Kakashi. The first time, Kakashi got fodderised when he had no resolution to kill his friend but instead understand his feelings, but what will happen now that he is determined to fight once and for all?

But more importantly, like you can see, Kakashi and Gai did much more than expected during this war, much more than the 5 current kages combined, and the way i see it, i think they are shown to be overall stronger opponents

What do you think?
 
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NeverEnding

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Kakashi is defiantly at kage-lvl...but gai I really don't know..
 

The Necromancer

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2 things that come to my mind. Kakashi and Gai basically shit their pants when confronted by the full bijuu. Fighting any version of chakra cloak on a jinchuriki is much MUCH easier than fighting a full fledged bijuu, which was probably what gaara was referring to.

Secondly, I have to remind you that sakura actually figured out Obito's kamui mechanics first, but everyone (including her) discredited her theory for lack of info.
 

slaton02

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Ofc they are Kakashi is just righ above Mei and Guy is just above Ay(not counting the 8th gate)

to the BS he others above are saying Guy fought the 6tails full bijuu mode and was doing great with only the 6th gate open. Kakashi also took on multiple v2 state jins and was doing great(Oro and Deva path got stomped by 1 v2)

It wasn't untill 5 full bijuus had them surround and even then Guy was sure he could solo with 8th gate and Kakashi wa confident hcouldtake some on.

Guy as able to hold his own with Obito with just nunchuckes & 0 gates open and Kakashi held his own too. Itachi even said Guy is extremely strong
 
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Minator93

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Nice thread, I agree completely. Kakashi and Guy are individually >> any of Gokage U_U

In fact Eternal Rivals >>> Gokage U_U

And about Kakashi vs Obito, Kakashi is the only person other than Minato that can go 1v1 against Obito and hold his own! Only He and Minato have chances against Obito and no one else!!
 

tripol

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Kakashi and Gai didnt battle the Bijuu at their full forms which is what I think Gaara was referring to. That said, I was impressed with how well they held up during the battle with the non full versions considering that an incomplete kyuubi nearly killed Orochimaru alone
 

Bogard

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2 things that come to my mind. Kakashi and Gai basically shit their pants when confronted by the full bijuu. Fighting any version of chakra cloak on a jinchuriki is much MUCH easier than fighting a full fledged bijuu, which was probably what gaara was referring to.

Secondly, I have to remind you that sakura actually figured out Obito's kamui mechanics first, but everyone (including her) discredited her theory for lack of info.
I don't call it shit on pants when they were prepared to counter them(Kakashi wanted to warp them or their TBB with kamui, when Gai wanted to open the final gate). The only problem was that they could have died if they ressorted to this especially in their state

Sakura didn't figure out how it works exactly. She only came up to the conclusion that he can chose parts of his body, but she didn't think about the alternate dimension if i remember correctly
Nice thread, I agree completely. Kakashi and Guy are individually >> any of Gokage U_U

In fact Eternal Rivals >>> Gokage U_U

And about Kakashi vs Obito, Kakashi is the only person other than Minato that can go 1v1 against Obito and hold his own! Only He and Minato have chances against Obito and no one else!!
Thanks bro. I agree. They are boss :scorps:
 

HNIC

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I don't think so personally, while plot-no-jutsu isn't a valid argument it obviously was the case involving Kakashi and Gai.

Individually I don't think this have surpassed the Kage, solely they have some very OP jutsu that might handle certain situations better than certain Kages, such as Tsunade.

Ability alone i think Onooki, Garra, and A> Kakashi, while Gai with gates (7) is questionable. When fighting big monsters oddly enough, it's rather easier than an indivdual on similar standing who is just simply stronger. After a while Kakashi and Gai became/were used as distractions for Naruto and Bee to capitalize, something any of the Kages could have done and even better.
 

Zero Tails

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I really just wanted to see Gai go full 8 gates and wipe the floor with the Biju even if he would die...
 

Lt Fresh

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2 things that come to my mind. Kakashi and Gai basically shit their pants when confronted by the full bijuu. Fighting any version of chakra cloak on a jinchuriki is much MUCH easier than fighting a full fledged bijuu, which was probably what gaara was referring to.

Secondly, I have to remind you that sakura actually figured out Obito's kamui mechanics first, but everyone (including her) discredited her theory for lack of info.

I think it was Danzo's men that truly figured out Obito's power for the most part and how to counter attack. Sakura only had a slight idea that he had phasing power. While Kakashi realized it was S/T and how to truly counter it.

But as to answer the Thread. I believe Kakashi was Kage level when he was nominated for it. The other Jounin and the council thought he was ready. As for Gai, I always saw him as Kakashi equal... He isn't as smart but he has the physical power and could be ranked Kage power.
-I see them on the same level or above some of current Kages. Plus Kakashi and Gai alone could rival most of the Akatsuki who are also Kage level to some level
 
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They are on the same level but not above. They can still be defeated by any of the Gokage apart from Mei maybe.

Kakashi and Guy didn't battle full form Bijuus but V2 jinchuurikis which other characters also did (Kisame, Itachi, Orochimaru and Pein just to name a few.
 

Whalelord

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Might Gai is definitely at that level to counter the six tails acid attack at it's full form while your not even in 7 gates is impressive. Afternoon Tiger is a destructive attack with a shock wave that was felt from miles away, The best part is also might guy knocking back Madara susanoo with his attack all warn out.
 

Sephy100

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Everything you've shown has just been them using Naruto as a support. Which proved Gaara right to begin with. And what the hell is a general Kage level? Which Kage are we using as a baseline?
 

Bogard

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They are on the same level but not above. They can still be defeated by any of the Gokage apart from Mei maybe.

Kakashi and Guy didn't battle full form Bijuus but V2 jinchuurikis which other characters also did (Kisame, Itachi, Orochimaru and Pein just to name a few.
They did battle some full form Bijuus. Gai especially countered a Tailed Beast attack with his asakujaku, when kakashi was handling 4 of them in V2. They did have difficulties when all of them finally transformed, but they perfectly hold their own against them until then

Everything you've shown has just been them using Naruto as a support. Which proved Gaara right to begin with. And what the hell is a general Kage level? Which Kage are we using as a baseline?
Not really. Read the thread. They fought Tailed beast without Naruto's help until they all fully transformed. They were actually the one helping Naruto in the fight against Gedo Mazo, against Obito with Kakashi being the major factor in the fight. It's when Kakashi and Gai were out of chakra some time after Madara arrived, that they needed his chakra again, but majority of the time, they did all what they did with their own power and were actually even major factors in fights some times
 

Itachi75

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It was stated early one taht with the power of the 8 gates you surpass teh power of the kages, so Gai obviously above kage level, i mean gai and kakashi could easily beat several tsunades. Gaara wouldn't be much of a challenge either to them.
-
these two are just overpowerd lol
 

9th Raikage

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Guy and Kakashi are definitely Kage level. It would be interesting to see who would win if they fought Raikage. I'm not sure kakashi could handle that speed.

Guy vs Raikage would be EPIC!

Dont know if Kakashi has enough chakra to kill Tsunade since she would heal any damage he dealt and kakashi runs out of chakra fast.

I think Guy and Kakashi are stronger than the other kages but Tsunade could take Kakashi due to his low stamina. None of the other Kages can take Kakashi except maybe Raikage

Guy could take out all the kage except maybe A.
 
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