ABC Logic

[Zenic]

you have a person who can beat minato who uses ice, then you have someone else who uses fire and beats the person who can beat minato with ice, does that mean that the person with fire can defeat minato? no
elemental disadvantages

Character names please, horrible argument.

Ughhh, fine. Heres one to timeline. Kakuzu>Kakashi. Now, you claimed yourself that Sasuke>Kakashi as well. Because of ABC, Naruto>Kakuzu, so Naruto>Kakashi, so Naruto>Sasuke. You're not actually going to tell me you believe Naruto (at that time mind you because of timeline) > MS Sasuke?

Kakuzu > Kakashi? Kakashi didn't even use MS in that fight though, but yes, based on given knowledge Kakuzu > Kakashi at the time. Sasuke didn't even have MS when Kakashi fought Kakuzu so your timeline is still wrong. I was talking about current Sasuke, current Kakashi & current Naruto

 

[L Lawliet]

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[/IMG]

 

[Cfighter]

Character names please, horrible argument.



Kakuzu > Kakashi? Kakashi didn't even use MS in that fight though, but yes, based on given knowledge Kakuzu > Kakashi at the time. Sasuke didn't even have MS when Kakashi fought Kakuzu so your timeline is still wrong. I was talking about current Sasuke, current Kakashi & current Naruto

Sasuke may not have had MS when Naruto fought Kakuzu, however when Kakashi met up Sasuke, neither Kakashi nor Naruto gained much more (except for Sage Mode), the the point still remains solid. Because Kakuzu>Kakashi, Sasuke>Kakashi (cause he didnt improve) which means by ABC Naruto>Sasuke. Now, if you're still going to dismiss this, then you're contradicting yourself on multiple levels, one of which being that the circumstances changed yet you refuse to see it as that without dismissing ABC logic. Also if you dismiss this then I must ask, on what ground did you/do you consider Sasuke>Kakashi? The way I see it is that Kakashi and Sasuke have never formally fought in Part 2, so you can't say that either is better than the other. In other words Sasuke=Kakashi (up until MS).

Now even by that logic, you still have the fact that Sasuke>Orochimaru (you cant bring up Orochimaru's weakened state, as that falls into my original point, which you refuse to acknowledge). And since Orochimaru>Kakashi that means that Sasuke (pre MS)>Kakashi, which means by ABC logic Naruto>Sasuke. Now, unless you dismiss Orochimaru>Kakashi, which in tern implies you believe Kakashi is stronger than a Sanin, ABC logic has fallen apart yet again. And in place with the timeline if you insist.

 

[Wik]

So according to you Deidara>Gaara, therefor, Deidara> second mizukage and Deidara>forth kazekage? Interesting. I also beleive that Deidara said that he was weaker than Sasori who lost to old granny and Sakura... Reeeaally interesting.

 

[Arcanor]

Even though I don't think ABC logic works on theory, it does have worked on most occasions until now. I'll try ti find an example that doesn't work...

What about Shikamaru<Tayuya ( he needed Temari, so we can assume that). So Shikamaru < Tayuya but Shikamaru> Hidan (Everything he used during that fight could have been used in his fight with Tayuya, no new weapons or jutsus.) Then we saw Hidan>Asuma. So by that logic Tayuya>Asuma. Kinda flawed example , but I want to see your arguments.

 

[-Raviel-]

my opinion>this thread

so me>you

 

[Zenic]

Sasuke may not have had MS when Naruto fought Kakuzu, however when Kakashi met up Sasuke, neither Kakashi nor Naruto gained much more (except for Sage Mode), the the point still remains solid. Because Kakuzu>Kakashi, Sasuke>Kakashi (cause he didnt improve) which means by ABC Naruto>Sasuke. Now, if you're still going to dismiss this, then you're contradicting yourself on multiple levels, one of which being that the circumstances changed yet you refuse to see it as that without dismissing ABC logic. Also if you dismiss this then I must ask, on what ground did you/do you consider Sasuke>Kakashi? The way I see it is that Kakashi and Sasuke have never formally fought in Part 2, so you can't say that either is better than the other. In other words Sasuke=Kakashi (up until MS).

Now even by that logic, you still have the fact that Sasuke>Orochimaru (you cant bring up Orochimaru's weakened state, as that falls into my original point, which you refuse to acknowledge). And since Orochimaru>Kakashi that means that Sasuke (pre MS)>Kakashi, which means by ABC logic Naruto>Sasuke. Now, unless you dismiss Orochimaru>Kakashi, which in tern implies you believe Kakashi is stronger than a Sanin, ABC logic has fallen apart yet again. And in place with the timeline if you insist.

Oh, I don't know. Maybe since Sasuke has EMS, Amaterasu & better mastery over all jutsu + the ability to spam without strain on his body :sy:

Remember what I said before, BASED ON GIVEN KNOWLEDGE So yes at that time Kakashi > Orochimaru because Oro was sick. ABC always works if you don't forget powerups, you specifically say what state characters are in & if you don't forget timelines.

And you're argument isn't valid, you're saying circumstances change every minute of the fight so you're implying that this is possible: Sasuke vs Naruto, Sasuke is kicking Naruto's ass but from a distant, the Juubi is watching and feels sorry for him and annihilates Sasuke.

Do you honestly believe that's possible?

 

[TJ0001]

good lord, okay, the reason why that logic doesnt work is because many times it has been proven that some characters match up better than others.

remember kidomaru?

neji beat him neji > kidomaru

it was proven that neji was the only one who could simply because of his chakra. which probably means that

kidomaru was stronger than all of the others.

remember kimimaro? naruto is stronger than gaara, however gaara was able to defeat kimimaro, the one of which naruto had such a hard time against.

gaara>kimimaro
kimimaro>naruto
naruto>gaara

so there. that is how abc logic is flawed.

 

[Zenic]

So according to you Deidara>Gaara, therefor, Deidara> second mizukage and Deidara>forth kazekage? Interesting. I also beleive that Deidara said that he was weaker than Sasori who lost to old granny and Sakura... Reeeaally interesting.

How stupid can you be? Deidara fought Gaara at the START of Shippuden, characters improve. You're just proving my point, "If the other guy isn't stupid enough to forget timeline, ABC always works"

Even though I don't think ABC logic works on theory, it does have worked on most occasions until now. I'll try ti find an example that doesn't work...

What about Shikamaru<Tayuya ( he needed Temari, so we can assume that). So Shikamaru < Tayuya but Shikamaru> Hidan (Everything he used during that fight could have been used in his fight with Tayuya, no new weapons or jutsus.) Then we saw Hidan>Asuma. So by that logic Tayuya>Asuma. Kinda flawed example , but I want to see your arguments.

Aren't you forgetting a certain timeskip which affects timeline and character improvement? You're just proving my point, "If the other guy isn't stupid enough to forget timeline, ABC always works" Shikamaru's intelligence improved, his shadow skills improved and so did his taijutsu.

Go back and watch both fights and honestly tell me if you don't see a difference.

my opinion>this thread

so me>you

Lol no one gives a **** about you. Go away, no one likes you.

 

[Zenic]

good lord, okay, the reason why that logic doesnt work is because many times it has been proven that some characters match up better than others.

remember kidomaru?

neji beat him neji < kidomaru

it was proven that neji was the only one who could simply because of his chakra. which probably means that

kidomaru was stronger than all of the others.

remember kimimaro? naruto is stronger than gaara, however gaara was able to defeat kimimaro, the one of which naruto had such a hard time against.

gaara>kimimaro
kimimaro>naruto
naruto>gaara

so there. that is how abc logic is flawed.

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Kimmimaro > Naruto? Since when did this happen? Proof or gtfo, Naruto was struggling, not losing. That way you're also saying Kimmimaro > Sasuke Lvl 2 which means Kimmimaro > Gaara. ABC isn't flawed, your common sense is flawed

 

[TJ0001]

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Kimmimaro > Naruto? Since when did this happen? Proof or gtfo, Naruto was struggling, not losing. That way you're also saying Kimmimaro > Sasuke Lvl 2 which means Kimmimaro > Gaara. ABC isn't flawed, your common sense is flawed

ugh....i knew it..the dumbass missed the point.

 

[Zenic]

ugh....i knew it..the dumbass missed the point.

I didn't miss the point, you just assumed that Kimmimaro > Naruto

 

[TJ0001]

I didn't miss the point, you just assumed that Kimmimaro > Naruto

no. that wasnt the point, you missed it. like an airplane going overhead. vreewwwwwmmm!!!

its like thats teh only part of the text you read in my comment. you saw "kimimaro>naruto" and went OMG WTF IS THIS GUY THINKING BLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAH!!! instead of reading the WHOLE THING and at least ATTEMPTING to understand where i was coming from.

 

[Flawž]

ABC logic doesn't work in Naruto. Everyone Can kill/beat anyone. IT's a matter of skill and speed. But Mainly power that determines the outcome of the fight.

 

[Zenic]

ABC logic doesn't work in Naruto. Everyone Can kill/beat anyone. IT's a matter of skill and speed. But Mainly power that determines the outcome of the fight.

That's when I stopped reading :sy: so by your logic:

Spoiler

Sakura > Hashirama

 

[AirWind]

Whether it is out or in the manga context, that logic can still be debatable....how if sick Darui fights with great health Udon where one punch could nullify the whole Darui body? Can you counter that logic? No matter how details this manga proof shows us about the certain strength of certain people, until it is really shown to us, the logic could always be countered.

 

[TJ0001]

alright, heres what i was getting at.

being that neji vs kidomaru is a better example ill use that.

at that time, neji was the only one who could defeat kidomaru because he had a method to destroy his chakra infused webs. this makes sense because neji is a hyuga.
this also implies that if any of the other members of the group were to attempt at fighting him, they would surely have lost, this includes naruto, being that he does not have a way to escape from the webs made with chakra.

another example is obito.

obitos method of combat is to utilize his sharingan and use kamui.

unless a certain character can figure out the flaw to this, then pretty much no one can defeat him.

kakashi discovered this flaw and attacked, managing to strike obito. this means that kakashi DOES have the potential to defeat obito. (also the fact that he also can use kamui) does this mean that kakashi will for sure defeat obito? no, no it does not,

so, in a scenario where kakashi manages to defeat obito, does this mean that kakashi is also stronger than naruto?

no, no it does not.

as weve seen plenty of times in the manga characters has recognized that naruto has surpassed his teachers, if you will.

i hope this makes sense, and when you reply..please...just...dont be a **** about it =.=....like..really...

 

[Zenic]

alright, heres what i was getting at.

being that neji vs kidomaru is a better example ill use that.

at that time, neji was the only one who could defeat kidomaru because he had a method to destroy his chakra infused webs. this makes sense because neji is a hyuga.
this also implies that if any of the other members of the group were to attempt at fighting him, they would surely have lost, this includes naruto, being that he does not have a way to escape from the webs made with chakra.

another example is obito.

obitos method of combat is to utilize his sharingan and use kamui.

unless a certain character can figure out the flaw to this, then pretty much no one can defeat him.

kakashi discovered this flaw and attacked, managing to strike obito. this means that kakashi DOES have the potential to defeat obito. (also the fact that he also can use kamui) does this mean that kakashi will for sure defeat obito? no, no it does not,

so, in a scenario where kakashi manages to defeat obito, does this mean that kakashi is also stronger than naruto?

no, no it does not.

as weve seen plenty of times in the manga characters has recognized that naruto has surpassed his teachers, if you will.

i hope this makes sense, and when you reply..please...just...dont be a **** about it =.=....like..really...

1. Naruto does have a way of getting out of the webs, even if he enters 1 tailed mode he easily swipes the web like it's straw.

2. You're proving my point with Kakashi, potential does not mean a certain win and only IF Kakashi has Kurama chakra does he have the potential to defeat Obito. Without Kurama chakra Kakashi doesn't even have potential to beat Obito and you know it.

3. Kakashi with Kurama's chakra is indeed stronger than Naruto, we have seen that when he Kamui'ed Hachibi, he can do the same to Kurama and that's bye bye to Naruto.

Stronger and powerful are complete different terms.

 

[TJ0001]

1. Naruto does have a way of getting out of the webs, even if he enters 1 tailed mode he easily swipes the web like it's straw.

2. You're proving my point with Kakashi, potential does not mean a certain win and only IF Kakashi has Kurama chakra does he have the potential to defeat Obito. Without Kurama chakra Kakashi doesn't even have potential to beat Obito and you know it.

3. Kakashi with Kurama's chakra is indeed stronger than Naruto, we have seen that when he Kamui'ed Hachibi, he can do the same to Kurama and that's bye bye to Naruto.

Stronger and powerful are complete different terms.

well that would imply that naruto could consciously activate the nine tails power. at the time the nine tails pretty much did what it wanted.

but i see what you mean, i also hope that you understood at least somewhat of where i was coming from.

while its true that of course characters like sakura do not stand a chance against characters like hashirama

its clear that it must be analyzed a bit further than that when it comes to characters who are closer to one another on the "tier scale" if you will.

 

[Zenic]

well that would imply that naruto could consciously activate the nine tails power. at the time the nine tails pretty much did what it wanted.

but i see what you mean, i also hope that you understood at least somewhat of where i was coming from.

while its true that of course characters like sakura do not stand a chance against characters like hashirama

its clear that it must be analyzed a bit further than that when it comes to characters who are closer to one another on the "tier scale" if you will.

I know what you were trying to say but I was also trying to prove that if in a VS thread you provide all the info, ABC never fails.