[Discussion] Why Magellon still owns Luffy

[VongolaX]

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Haha XD

Agreed

 

[ultraChalk]

So basically, Luffy has shown better durability against more versatile opponents in the series, but not against Magellan.[/COLOR]

You are completely casting aside the fact that we have seen in multiple cases, Haki is capable of thwarting the effects of Devil fruits (Akainu VS Shanks again). Durability is durability. Just because Magellan's Devil Fruit offers an effect if hit physically doesn't mean that his ability to take hits is great. If you notice in the panel, Magellan is on his KNEES. He's also heavily panting. Had Magellan been on guard, its more likely the move that was completely linear wouldn't have worked. However, this moment makes it clear that Magellan's durability is not nearly as high as Rob Lucci's. Thus placing his durability between Lucci and Blueno (who was one shot by Pistol while in Tekkai).

Give the Doku-Doku no Mi to Coby during the Romance Dawn arc (first arc). Pre-Skip Luffy at the time of Impel Down would have one shot him even with the fruit. Heck Romance Dawn Luffy probably could have one shot him. Now his hand would have been grossly affected by it, but Coby would be KO'd.

Does that make sense?! In durability, Luffy by feats far outclasses Magellan. Magellan has a nice advantage that hitting him physically with fists in most cases hurts the adversary; however, once more, we've seen that Haki is a legitimate counter provided the poison is removed entirely before Armament is de-activated.[/quote]Still, I disagree. What you seem to be forgetting is that having haki alone won't guarantee breaking through somebodies defenses, it's the superior Haki that takes priority. I don't have much to argue with off of this because Magellan hasn't actually displayed Haki, but common sense tells me he does considering he was put in charge of holding down multiple high class Logia in his prison. Yes I agree with Coby though, he'd have terrible skill with that DF.

And I don't think we can make that call that he's not on Luccis level yet, just off of that one attack. When Magellan took it, he got on his knees and started panting. But when Lucci took it, there were effects of splattered blood, and it took him a moment to get up as well, and he had to get serious. The difference is, when Lucci got serious in the end he still lost. When Magellan got serious... we knew what happened then.

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1. Yes; however, he has to notice and then proceed to counter. Luffy can do so naturally with bullets. And with blowing up do so naturally with cannons.

2. While it is plausible that he could make a poison cushion, this has its limits. Simply put... the further he falls, the more his momentum would increase. The higher he falls from the less likely he is to survive. This being due to the fact that there's no way Magellan is going to be able to create enough Poison to break his fall from higher distances. This being due to the corrosive nature of his own poison, and the fact it spreads out.

4. This steps into the realm of opinion with no real support. Its also unlikely. Magellan excretes poison (much like Mr. 3). He cannot manipulate the size of his body for an offensive attack in terms of a punch or kick. However, this is replaced by Hydra. Which does have size and range, but that falls under point 6. Magellan has no way to increase his offensive striking power with the Doku-Doku no Mi... other than attacking with more lethal poisons (which falls under 6 rather than a direct physical altercation).

7 & 8. noted below.

The point in the listings was combat adaptability. Magellan's diversity in his usage of poison is lower than that of Luffy's usage of Rubber. Now certainly Magellan can do things like block bullets, and travel like Luffy does using poison; however, the range has been overall lower. First and foremost, I feel you are over rating Venom Road. Note during his fight with Luffy, a blinded and searing Luffy could still dodge Magellan while the latter used Venom Road in an attempt to deliver a spiked hand coupe de grace. Magellan uses Venom Road a few times, but each time it is used to traverse a rather insignificant distance compared to the distances we've seen Luffy traverse throughout the series. The furthest was up one level of Impel Down (From I believe level 2 to level 1). A distance which was only a small spiral stair case as we see Inazuma literally knock it down when the Revs decide to face him down.

Finally, Hidora was a poison ball attack. If you look at his face he's showing veins pop out meaning he's still feeling the attack; however, he's also intelligently using it to his advantage. As the blow helps project the Hidora balls out and at Luffy. However, also note: He has no poison coating him. Luffy makes the punch and it COMPLETELY lands. If this is a punch from Post Skip Luffy... that's doing a significantly larger scale in damage. Notable by the fact just a small portion of Haki and Jet pistol one shot a pacifista... which preskip tanked with no injury the same attack... which here is actually still showing strain on Magellan. Another thing is that the strike lands directly where it needs to: the stomach. Had Luffy struck a kneecap, face, or other place than the bloating stomach, it would have been a free hit.

1. Iiii'm pretty sure we can agree dodging bullets is second nature to breathing for OP characters, and Magellan should have no issue detecting them U_U. And canons only explode when they reach instant impact with a hard surface. The same way poison cushions his fall, Magellan can just make a Venom Road tube that a cannonball goes in, and make it go right out on another side.

2. This is why Venom Road is such a versatile move. The same way he makes a U-Tube for the canon I mentioned above, he goes in one side of the tube and U turns out the other side. Either way death by falls in VS matches are almost impossible to calculate, and it has never happened in the manga, so this is sort of pointless to argue about.

4. I can't prove he can do this so fair enough. I still believe he can though. Not by manipulating the size of his body, but manipulating the shape of his poison. If he can make a cerberus dragon and a skeleton demon, a giant fist should be light work.

7.8. We're not seeing eye to eye on this quality over quantity thing. Luffy has a much, much larger arsenal of attacks, yes... but Magellans techs are of much higher quality and more effective against his.

I won't argue that Luffys distance is greater, that's true, he's a rubber man and covering ground is his strong point. But your main reason for saying those things was listing out the things Luffy can do with his Gomu Gomu no Mi, and I'm just saying Magellan can do the same thing.

"7. Slingshot to fling himself long distances.

8. Psuedo flight via spinning like a top."

But to the same extent as Luffy? More than Likely not. Or at least #7.

And about the poison ball: I'm completely aware of Magellans expression. That was due to the pressure of puffing himself up so much though. He took no damage from that attack, shown by the next page where he was able to immediately react to the next G2 attack.

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. MY main point here is that he's completely capable of fighting on par with G2 Luffy, and multiple levels above him at that. Magellan VS Luffy at this point would be a high diff on both sides, but Magellan would ultimately win. 1 thing I believe that is being disregarding is that Magellan at no point was pushed to his absolute limit, as far as 1 on 1 battles with anybody goes. He was pushed to the limit of capturing everybody and stopping them from escaping, but a 1on1 Magellan showing everything he has would still be stronger than what we've seen. Especially after TS, he's had to have gotten a lot stronger.
Either way, you make it seem more like luck that Luffy struck there when it was more of skill on Magellans part.

Think about it this way: it's very debatable whether or not Haki will protect Luffy from Magellans poison. I think not, you think so, so we won't get anywhere arguing about that.

Yes. A temporary solution. However, we've also seen Luffy's speed has further increased during the time skip. Plus he's added Observation Haki. Considering he could dodge Hydra in base. And could dodge Magellan personally while Chloro Balled (also dodging out of a Venom Road).... Observation + Increased natural reflexes + Increased speed says to me Luffy isn't getting touch as often as he did during his first face off with Magellan. Thus, all he truly needs is a coating on the hands and legs. Provided he has that, then all the poison will concentrate on his hands... maybe legs. And we saw during the fight, Luffy was actually capable of taking that pain and continue fighting which he should be able to do as well Post Skip.

In this case, it would be a tie. Because considering the whole match, he won't keep that AH up forever.

Seems you've forgotten Kinjite as well, which is where his Haki limits to. Hydra level poison, he can protect himself from. Kinjite, he can't.

This is a pure opinion that Magellan has Haki, of which he displayed no feats in. Actually, Magellan's position is held LARGELY due to his DF. Which in the close quarters of Impel Down is one VERY over powering ability. I mean think of Venom Demon. If he unleashes that in a lower level... you're done. He could completely dominate the presence in Level 1 enough to nearly kill the escapees while they were moving. However, in an open arena like say the Marineford Warzone.... the Doku-Doku no Mi's threat level lowers because more room to doge is available. Magellan didn't even really NEED Haki. Between Venom Demon and Hydra... anyone who tried to escape was basically done for. Especially since he could just cover an entrance in poison. Could Magellan have developed Haki over the skip. Certainly. But hell, not even Robin who was improving her skill around Dragon and Sabo developed any Haki. And Magellan has still remained in the same place guarding Impel Down. His improvement could hardly have risen as high as Luffy's.

I have no proof he can use it but reason, so I ask you; Do you believe that the Doku Doku no Mi takes priority over Logia Users? Meaning that even without Haki, he can damage Logias? Why would he be put in charge of opponents who were very well capable of using Haki? Do you believe that your standard Vice Admiral is stronger tham Magellan, the Guardian, highest rank, of Impel Down? Because they all have been stated to posses Haki.

Answer these and maybe you'll see my point.

That image is immediately after the Bazooka. If it wasn't He still never caught Luffy. The only signs of Poison on Luffy are his hands. Which would be directly impacting Magellan. Luffy was never caught or seen caught by Venom Road or Magellan. Not without doing it to himself.

So what you're saying is, all that time off screen during the time Buggy and Mr. 3 were fighting Vice Warden, Magellan did nothing but stand there and take hits? And considering he wasn't seen with any lasting injuries, or even bleeding once again... this would add to his credibility of defense, would it not?

Temporarily is very different from none at all. Temporarily means a combatant has time to take something, and hit you multiple times before it falls away. Pending the environment leaves Luffy with an ample supply of weapons. But more so, there's always using speed to move around Venom Demon and striking Magellan directly. Or directly with a weapon.

Except that a Kinjite Coating would instantly kill Luffy if he touched him, and any weapon he attacks him with will pretty much dissolve on contact, or he can dodge.

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Poison Doesn't really work against me. Its not a statement of it effecting him as much. Its that it doesn't work. Which implies a high level of immunity to many types of poison. Most likely, this goes up to Hydra and Venom Demon. Hydra and Venom Demon being the only ones that would plausibly work. However, Hydra would still ultimately have a large anti-body system fighting it. Meaning the only truly effective poison Magellan has against Luffy is Venom Demon.

Sounds accurate, though I swear I read a different translation which I will look for.

But for this one. Lets not forget, he was able to 100% fight against Caesars because he's a gas man, poison is NOT his strong point. It's not on Magellans level. Yet he would have certain immunities that would play a big part in the match, but as far as the main poisons go, he's still vulnerable to those.

And I should remind you, it depends on the quantities of something he receives. A puff of poison, sure he could deal with. 2? Maybe. 3? He'll start feeling light effects and after that he'll be back to where he started.

No, terrain is EASILY a deciding factor. If you send a basic military group into a jungle for 10 years. They'll learn that jungle. Then you send a better trained military group in a combat situation. The basic group knows the terrain, and can more easily traverse the environment as well as set traps, escape routes, etc.

Its very similar in OP. While in the desert. Crocodile would have destroyed Luffy. But notice their final battle takes place in a stone tomb? Enel would have had a far greater advantage fighting the Upper Yard. Instead he fought on the Arc Maxim whcih he was never seen really using until He planned to go to Fairy Vearth.

Impel down is the same. Firstly, Magellan KNOWS the routes of the facility. While he pursued them from behind, he sent the demon guards up the elevator to level 1 to cut them off so they'd be trapped between them and him. Imagine if he had simply taken the elevator himself. Battle over as he floods the entire lower levels with Hydra or worse venom demon.

Also, the enclosed building sized fighting was far more advantageous for Magellan. Where his Hydra will fill up an entire hallway in Impel Down, its only a small portion when being done in the Alabasta desert, or on the ice at Marineford. There are FAR more options for one to move to evade any range given to Hydra.

Also, the group begins retreating from Magellan as low as level 3. I'll explain a little more with Crocodile's point.

Elaborate on Crocodile. If anything a stone tomb was just his cup of tea, since he had potential sand literally all around him, all he had to do was touch something. Yet he still lost.

Elaborate on Enel, he was doomed either way against Luffy.

Any ideas why he didn't?

You say that as if it wasn't advantageous for Luffy and Crocodile. Luffy in enclosed or open areas has benefits. He has maximum mobility, weapon and manuvering in closed in areas, and open areas allow him to go wild with his flashiest attacks. Crocodile had walls all around him to touch. But did he? Nope. Inazuma had scraps of wall and everything around him to curl up the ground and assist them all in moving around to fight him. But did he? Nope.

2. How does it not?! Its inefficient to fight Magellan when he has the complete combat advantage. They are pressed for time, and the guy they are fighting can make an entire wall of poison. A wall that can't be moved around because of the fact that they're walled in. And breaking the wall is met with the sea. There are SEVERAL reasons other than Magellan's advantage... but the fact remains its easily a large reason just like the others.

3.

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All of Impel Down's levels are under water. Crocodile CAN control the amount of Rock/Stone he turns to sand. But the amount of time he has, and the risk of messing it up equaling his own death makes it inefficient to even attempt. So yes. Its a complete disadvantage, and Magellan happily can take advantage of this.

We have to wait and see Magellan's return. However, what he showed in terms of taking pain, and attack speed. He shouldn't hit Luffy unless he's fighting him somewhere in an enclosed space. Would he win in Impel Down. Honestly.... there's a fair chance Magellan would take this at Impel Down. But give them an open combat terrain, or a city (not some underground/underwater deal), and I would say Luffy by feats is taking this.

Doesn't really say something bad for Magellan.... the fact that just one real fight still puts current Luffy in a Mid-High diff fight just shows how OP the man is.

Gonna respond to all of this right here with 1 comment: Everything is used in moderation, and so was Magellans poison. He could've used Kinjite the whole match. Did he? No. He moderated his attack, as a DF user himself which I think that your forgetting so he risks his own life himself everytime he used poison in doors underwater, and used Hydra poison and other attacks during that time. Also, my dude, are you really getting a visual of how tough Impel Down is? The thickness/strength of the wall, the different terrain around him that DOESN'T connect to the outside walls protecting them from the water... it's not like he has to turn the whole darn prison into sand, but just portions of it to fend himself off with, but he still didn't do that. He could have sand-ized the bridges, elevators, walls on the 1st floor, anything, but he still didn't.

I see your point in this, but no matter how i look at it magellon will not go a whole match without using kinjite, and during that whole match theres a fat chance of luffy steering clear of all that, especially if he's guiding it. of course if they fought in the manga luffy would win. but outside of that., i just dont see it.

 

[Dr Strangelove]

Haha XD

Agreed

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[KGB Kakuzu]

COLOR="#8B4513"]Still, I disagree. What you seem to be forgetting is that having haki alone won't guarantee breaking through somebodies defenses, it's the superior Haki that takes priority. I don't have much to argue with off of this because Magellan hasn't actually displayed Haki, but common sense tells me he does considering he was put in charge of holding down multiple high class Logia in his prison. Yes I agree with Coby though, he'd have terrible skill with that DF.

And I don't think we can make that call that he's not on Luccis level yet, just off of that one attack. When Magellan took it, he got on his knees and started panting. But when Lucci took it, there were effects of splattered blood, and it took him a moment to get up as well, and he had to get serious. The difference is, when Lucci got serious in the end he still lost. When Magellan got serious... we knew what happened then.

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[/COLOR]

Yes, because unlike Magellan, Lucci took a blindsided Gear 2nd to the face. Look at the panel. He was talking to Franky, and at the last second gets punched in the face. Here is him getting up.

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He takes virtually no time to recuperate, and unlike Magellan, Lucci wasn't heavily panting and gasping for air despite taking a more serious blow (as blunt force trauma to the head comes with concussions and nausea).

1. Iiii'm pretty sure we can agree dodging bullets is second nature to breathing for OP characters, and Magellan should have no issue detecting them U_U. And canons only explode when they reach instant impact with a hard surface. The same way poison cushions his fall, Magellan can just make a Venom Road tube that a cannonball goes in, and make it go right out on another side.

Bellamere and Clover would disagree . But seriously, most often times characters arent' dodging bullets. Heck look at Franky in Dressrosa. He was tanking for days. Magellan has no speed feats to prove he can dodge them. The point however, was that Luffy can sit there sleeping and deflect a bullet. Magellan must be consciously aware, and draft a high class poison like Venom Demon or Hydra to melt it. Naturally, Magellan isn't going to be defeated by a mere bullet in combat. It was purely to note that Luffy has shown more combat diversity and application than Magellan with his DF.

Also, in OP, we've seen cannonballs can explode just by hitting people. Like Oars, Magellan himself, and I believe even Luffy.

2. This is why Venom Road is such a versatile move. The same way he makes a U-Tube for the canon I mentioned above, he goes in one side of the tube and U turns out the other side. Either way death by falls in VS matches are almost impossible to calculate, and it has never happened in the manga, so this is sort of pointless to argue about.

Death by falling doesn't happen in OP. The point was more theoretical. Assume you go 100 miles above the surface and fall to the planet. Luffy would survive the fall as a Rubber man (assuming we hit land). Magellan's poison would not protect a 100 mile fall. Once again, the point was to point out that Luffy's DF has many applications.

7.8. We're not seeing eye to eye on this quality over quantity thing. Luffy has a much, much larger arsenal of attacks, yes... but Magellans techs are of much higher quality and more effective against his.

Its not about the attacks. Its about the application of said moves. Luffy has both the attacks (which before the skip clearly weren't as good as Magellans due to the poisonous effects), but he also has the out of combat advantages of his fruit. Which ultimately out value Magellan's. While Magellan CAN duplicate some of the effects, it comes at a smaller efficiency. For example, his Hydra not showing nearly as much range as Luffy's moves when covering distance. Especially not at the same speed either (as base Luffy could recognize and dodge the arrival of Magellan while handicapped due to Chloroball).

I won't argue that Luffys distance is greater, that's true, he's a rubber man and covering ground is his strong point. But your main reason for saying those things was listing out the things Luffy can do with his Gomu Gomu no Mi, and I'm just saying Magellan can do the same thing.

Yes, he can, but the fact Luffy does them to a more efficient degree shows that Luffy's adaptability is out classing Magellan's.

"7. Slingshot to fling himself long distances.

8. Psuedo flight via spinning like a top."

But to the same extent as Luffy? More than Likely not. Or at least #7.

Except Magellan hasn't shown the feats. Luffy's been capable of flinging himself over giant walls in a short time. Magellan would have to spawn Hydra, then wait as the Hydra gets to the appropriate height, THEN travel through it. And once more, he'd have to have a landing stragegy: which Luffy doesn't need.

And about the poison ball: I'm completely aware of Magellans expression. That was due to the pressure of puffing himself up so much though. He took no damage from that attack, shown by the next page where he was able to immediately react to the next G2 attack.

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. MY main point here is that he's completely capable of fighting on par with G2 Luffy, and multiple levels above him at that. Magellan VS Luffy at this point would be a high diff on both sides, but Magellan would ultimately win. 1 thing I believe that is being disregarding is that Magellan at no point was pushed to his absolute limit, as far as 1 on 1 battles with anybody goes. He was pushed to the limit of capturing everybody and stopping them from escaping, but a 1on1 Magellan showing everything he has would still be stronger than what we've seen. Especially after TS, he's had to have gotten a lot stronger.

We can agree to disagree then. To me, the veins appearing on his face indicate he felt the punch. However, the fact he was both bloated and expecting the attack lessened the overall impact. At least that's my perspective due to the fact that having taken an open shot at the start he was literally on a knee and panting.

Either way, you make it seem more like luck that Luffy struck there when it was more of skill on Magellans part.

It was more of convenience for Magellan. Luffy could have chosen anywhere to strike. He chose the stomach. Magellan took advantage of it. But what if Luffy had gone for the face?! He'd have taken a free headshot because he puffed up.

In this case, it would be a tie. Because considering the whole match, he won't keep that AH up forever.

Why?!

Seems you've forgotten Kinjite as well, which is where his Haki limits to. Hydra level poison, he can protect himself from. Kinjite, he can't.

Well nothing exists to prove or disprove Luffy with Haki would be hurt by it, but in my opinion I agree that he can't touch Venom Demon. However, this does not mean Luffy cannot simply pick up a weapon from the environment and use it. Also, Venom Demon does not always coat Magellan. So striking him after the Poison has dispersed is an option.

I have no proof he can use it but reason, so I ask you; Do you believe that the Doku Doku no Mi takes priority over Logia Users? Meaning that even without Haki, he can damage Logias? Why would he be put in charge of opponents who were very well capable of using Haki? Do you believe that your standard Vice Admiral is stronger tham Magellan, the Guardian, highest rank, of Impel Down? Because they all have been stated to posses Haki.

You're ignoring the fact that prisoners at Impel Down have Kairoseke handcuffs (Logia/DF users), are constantly abused (Jinbei), and honestly seemingly get no valuable nourishment (One of the levels is literally the Starvation hell). I mean in a prison that ritually puts people in boiling hot water.... the condition for prisoners isn't the best. Match the fact they have no way to legitimately remove the cuffs (unless you go Shiki and cut off some body).... You're stuck as a person who's tired, malnourished, and mobility limited against someone with a poison fruit and knows the terrain. Its not that hard. Magellan literally only does 4 hours of work each day.

So what you're saying is, all that time off screen during the time Buggy and Mr. 3 were fighting Vice Warden, Magellan did nothing but stand there and take hits? And considering he wasn't seen with any lasting injuries, or even bleeding once again... this would add to his credibility of defense, would it not?

Swapping of panels doesn't automatically mean the progression of time. For all we know, Buggy and 3's scene is going on the same time as Luffy vs Magellan. Possibly before, or slightly after. We also don't know how hard it was for Hannyabal to beat them down.

The end result: the last scene we see of Luffy vs Magellan is Luffy daring a strike. The chapter ends. We switch to a new chapter showing Mr. 3 and Buggy failed in their earlier seen escape plan. Then we panel back to see the result of Luffy's action. Magellan on his knee. Luffy's hands have been hurt from doing so.

Except that a Kinjite Coating would instantly kill Luffy if he touched him, and any weapon he attacks him with will pretty much dissolve on contact, or he can dodge.

As I've said before, he doesn't always have Venom Demon covering every inch of him. As we saw during its debut, Champion Rifle could land at least one blow before becoming useless. Meaning so long as Luffy picks up a weapon and coats it. He can use it as a one shot strike. So Magellan isn't invincible.

But for this one. Lets not forget, he was able to 100% fight against Caesars because he's a gas man, poison is NOT his strong point. It's not on Magellans level. Yet he would have certain immunities that would play a big part in the match, but as far as the main poisons go, he's still vulnerable to those.

Naturally, but he could still use some poisons. Any poison made from gases are at Ceasar's disposal. But I digress that's another subject. Luffy should be immune to most poisons. He is NOT immune to Venom Demon. He is either immune to, or should have an excellent resistance to Hydra.

And I should remind you, it depends on the quantities of something he receives. A puff of poison, sure he could deal with. 2? Maybe. 3? He'll start feeling light effects and after that he'll be back to where he started.

Depends, but this basically becomes a battle of assumptions.

Elaborate on Crocodile. If anything a stone tomb was just his cup of tea, since he had potential sand literally all around him, all he had to do was touch something. Yet he still lost.

Because if you notice he doesn't change it to sand. Because the plot dictated he'd use regular attacks. Heck he doesn't even use Sabels in that fight. Much more, his ability to drain Liquids from attacks (which he's visibly seen doing with several of his moves) fails to work against Gomu-Gomu no Ame. Honestly there's a lot wrong with Luffy vs Crocodile... but once more I digress.

Any ideas why he didn't?

Because of Blackbeard. He is aware the man is breaking down through the non-elevator route. He began chasing the escapees from the lower levels, but also to make sure that man doesn't get in the way. Additionally the demon beasts are already taking it.

You say that as if it wasn't advantageous for Luffy and Crocodile. Luffy in enclosed or open areas has benefits. He has maximum mobility, weapon and manuvering in closed in areas, and open areas allow him to go wild with his flashiest attacks. Crocodile had walls all around him to touch. But did he? Nope. Inazuma had scraps of wall and everything around him to curl up the ground and assist them all in moving around to fight him. But did he? Nope.

How does he have maximum mobility in a confined space against a guy who spews enough poison to cover a hallway?! Crocodile can't just go making sand from every stone. Or else he risks dissolving too much and he gets flooded by Sea Water. Inazuma was the only one who could use it advantageously because his scissors can show an exact depth in which he slices.

Gonna respond to all of this right here with 1 comment: Everything is used in moderation, and so was Magellans poison. He could've used Kinjite the whole match. Did he? No. He moderated his attack, as a DF user himself which I think that your forgetting so he risks his own life himself everytime he used poison in doors underwater, and used Hydra poison and other attacks during that time. Also, my dude, are you really getting a visual of how tough Impel Down is? The thickness/strength of the wall, the different terrain around him that DOESN'T connect to the outside walls protecting them from the water... it's not like he has to turn the whole darn prison into sand, but just portions of it to fend himself off with, but he still didn't do that. He could have sand-ized the bridges, elevators, walls on the 1st floor, anything, but he still didn't.

Once again: advantage of knowing the terrain. How should inmates and criminals know where its safe to or not to dig or remove parts of the walls. Also, where does it specifically note the thickness of the walls?! I don't recall the manga literally saying its X amount thick. Honestly the picture I posted with the levels is the best description of the flooring and layout. Thickness and all.

I see your point in this, but no matter how i look at it magellon will not go a whole match without using kinjite, and during that whole match theres a fat chance of luffy steering clear of all that, especially if he's guiding it. of course if they fought in the manga luffy would win. but outside of that., i just dont see it.

Why?! Luffy in base dodged all Magellan had to show other than Kinjite. Heck Luffy while blinded by Chloroball dodge all of it. He dodged Hydra, attacks from Venom Road...... all while in base. Magellan was only hurting Luffy during their first fight because it HURT Luffy to attack.

Now Luffy has greater speed, greater durability, and Haki that can actually defend himself. Magellan is a badass. But honestly, we can't just assume he got a ton stronger over the skip. The post skip feats Luffy has shown puts him over Magellan. The only real threat is Kinjite... which honestly picking up some rock or something, and using it as a medium should suffice.