RSM Naruto vs JJ Madara

[roncato]

Madara wins.

 

[-immortal-]

Madara wins he is een restricted lele

 

[Ansatsuken]

Madara high diff to mid diff without PIS.

 

[Itachi of the Uchiha clan]

Madara wins he is een restricted lele

Ik, Madara wasn't even fighting 100%, when he was about to get serious BlackZetsu blitzed him...
OT: I think Hokage Naruto wins High diff

 

[Sennin of Logic]

VOTE2 Naruto would high-diff. The biju abilities, such as his steam punch, are pretty OP, but that alone wouldn't beat Madara with the rinnegan. What he needs is his Ashura Avatar, which should be more powerful than Madara. Remember, Madara/=/Naruto+Sasuke in chakra quality. He used the juubi to give him 6 paths senjutsu, which Naurto has. Naruto stalemated the biju Susanoo, which was formed by rikkudo chakra comparable to Madara (given that Sasuke caught up to him, and shows countless times he's a match for rikkudo senjutsu) in addition to the chakra of the bijus on top of that. For Naruto to stalemate that, at least terms of brute power, Naruto surpasses Madara.

Also, Naruto does have a method of defeating Madara. If he gets the upper hand, he can use tailed beast RS to unleash the biju chakra inside of Madara and remove them. Madara will either die outright, or will loose his rikkudo powers, making it easy for Naruto to overwhelm, and seal him.

"Portrayal" is not an accurate measurement in the slightest. It's not quantifiable, and it's absolutely subjective. Considering Madara was getting serious when starting up IT, there's little to no basis in believing that Madara's demonstration of deva path was inferior to what he could do.(aside from combining the fragments for a big one) Additionally, Naruto was holding his own against Kaguya, who was noted to, even then, be fare more powerful than Madara. By "portrayal" that'd make Naruto equal or stronger wouldn't it?

 

[King Of Pop]

tbh can go either way high dif though i lean towards madara

 

[KeyofDestiny]

"Portrayal" is not an accurate measurement in the slightest. It's not quantifiable, and it's absolutely subjective. Considering Madara was getting serious when starting up IT, there's little to no basis in believing that Madara's demonstration of deva path was inferior to what he could do.(aside from combining the fragments for a big one)

Yes it is. It's a perfect way to measure their strength in this case. Madara is on Hagoromo's level. He was approaching it without the Shinju AND without his other eyeball, and the DB states that he has "the true power of Rikudo". With both his eyes and the Shinju, he's on par with Hagoromo.

Naruto and Sasuke are half his powers. Nature Energy and Bijuu Chakra adds some power, but we don't know how much. Madara's level is clear. Their exact level isn't. We just know that they are around Hagoromo's level.

So by portrayal, Madara is stronger.

Additionally, Naruto was holding his own against Kaguya, who was noted to, even then, be fare more powerful than Madara. By "portrayal" that'd make Naruto equal or stronger wouldn't it?

Obviously not considering his tactics are the only reason he held his own against Kaguya. Not strength. Lmao. It's nonsense to try and imply that half of Hagoromo's power is equal or stronger than someone who is equal with the man himself.

 

[Mad Titan Thanos]

By pure manga feats - Naruto
With all hypothetical feats Madara should have - Madara

Every Naruto/madara fanboy who deny this is butthurt

 

[Sennin of Logic]

Yes it is. It's a perfect way to measure their strength in this case. Madara is on Hagoromo's level. He was approaching it without the Shinju AND without his other eyeball, and the DB states that he has "the true power of Rikudo". With both his eyes and the Shinju, he's on par with Hagoromo.

Nope, because anyone can make up whatever they want if they use "portrayal" as their evidence. No, Madara isn't at Hagoromo's level. No one is even close in the manga excluding Kaguya. As seen with Haruma, rikkudo senjutsu is something they were born with. In other words, Hagoromo has RSM+Juubi+rinnegan, wheras Madara's just Juubi+Rinnegan. They aren't truly comparable in power. The context of that statement wasn't that he was about as strong as Hagoromo, but that he was trying to replicate it, or are you going to say that Madara was about as powerful as Kaguya given that she was also used in that statement?

Naruto and Sasuke are half his powers. Nature Energy and Bijuu Chakra adds some power, but we don't know how much. Madara's level is clear. Their exact level isn't. We just know that they are around Hagoromo's level.

This bites your own argument in the but. The 4th Databook makes it very clear that Naruto's RSM is>=Madara's juubi chakra. If Hagoromo split his power in half with Naruto and Sasuke, that makes Hagoromo's charka about twice as strong as Madara's, so no, his "exact level" is far below what you say it is. Natural energy and biju chakra gives a huge boost. I shouldn't even have to demonstrate this.

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If we're going by this, it's>=3X buff. If we're considering the mechanics, Sasuke pretty much creates a juubi to fuel his already rikkudo-level susanoo, making it quite likely he received a 2X buff.
So by portrayal, Madara is stronger.

Obviously not considering his tactics are the only reason he held his own against Kaguya. Not strength. Lmao. It's nonsense to try and imply that half of Hagoromo's power is equal or stronger than someone who is equal with the man himself.

Of course ignoring the fact that he's charged her head-on and overpowered her once and some cases overwhelmed her.

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Is Naruto stronger than Kaguya? Of course not, but he did put up a fight. Your logic is basically stating that Naruto is half as strong as Madara, but the fact that he's at least able to fight decently against Kaguya, who's far stronger kind of craps on the idea that he's "portrayed" that way. Portrayal that's not backed by a direct statement is just a fancy word for interpretation. You're just labeling your opinion as manga facts, which doesn't make them so I'm afraid.

 

[KeyofDestiny]

Nope, because anyone can make up whatever they want if they use "portrayal" as their evidence. No, Madara isn't at Hagoromo's level. No one is even close in the manga excluding Kaguya. As seen with Haruma, rikkudo senjutsu is something they were born with. In other words, Hagoromo has RSM+Juubi+rinnegan, wheras Madara's just Juubi+Rinnegan. They aren't truly comparable in power. The context of that statement wasn't that he was about as strong as Hagoromo, but that he was trying to replicate it, or are you going to say that Madara was about as powerful as Kaguya given that she was also used in that statement?

Whole paragraph is a waste of your time since it should've been obvious which Hagoromo I was talking about, and I even stated which Hagoromo. Hagoromo without Juubi. so yes, Madara is on Hagoromo's level.

Bold is obviously false. He outright stated that Madara is approaching his power. If he weren't talking about some quantifiable term here, he wouldn't have said "approaching". Madara was approaching his level with Juubi and One Rinnegan.

This bites your own argument in the but. The 4th Databook makes it very clear that Naruto's RSM is>=Madara's juubi chakra. If Hagoromo split his power in half with Naruto and Sasuke, that makes Hagoromo's charka about twice as strong as Madara's, so no, his "exact level" is far below what you say it is. Natural energy and biju chakra gives a huge boost. I shouldn't even have to demonstrate this.

Spoiler

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If we're going by this, it's>=3X buff. If we're considering the mechanics, Sasuke pretty much creates a juubi to fuel his already rikkudo-level susanoo, making it quite likely he received a 2X buff.

Once again, your whole paragraph is a fail because Madara's full power isn't his Six Paths Senjutsu. It's his Rinnegan+Six Paths Senjutsu. Naruto's Senjutsu being "superior" slightly doesn't mean that Naruto>Madara, cause he's not, and it's not debatable w/o taking in Nature Energy.

Then there's the fact that DB only says that Naruto's reaction speed in this mode is slightly above Madara's. How in the world does that translate to "Naruto's Senjutsu is superior overall"? Everyone has assumed that Naruto's Senjutsu>Madara's Senjutsu based on Naruto having the advantage in one area when they obviously forget the obvious fact that Naruto was faster before getting the boost, so him being faster after the boost isn't a surprise.

Naruto at full power after his Rikudo buff is Six Paths Senjutsu+Kurama Mode. Kurama Mode Naruto was already faster than Madara w/o Juubi. Give them both Six Paths Senjutsu, and it's no surprise that he'll be faster. So please, don't take one statement out of context and go around saying that Naruto's Senjutsu>Madara's Senjutsu when DB never stated or even heavily implied such a thing.

I've already stated that Bijuu Chakra and Nature Energy gives a large buff.

Of course ignoring the fact that he's charged her head-on and overpowered her once and some cases overwhelmed her.

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Is Naruto stronger than Kaguya? Of course not, but he did put up a fight. Your logic is basically stating that Naruto is half as strong as Madara, but the fact that he's at least able to fight decently against Kaguya, who's far stronger kind of craps on the idea that he's "portrayed" that way. Portrayal that's not backed by a direct statement is just a fancy word for interpretation. You're just labeling your opinion as manga facts, which doesn't make them so I'm afraid.

So Naruto overpowering Kaguya in Taijutsu means that he overpowered Kaguya overall? Cause if he didn't do the latter, then you can't say that he fought against Kaguya cause he was strong. Naruto already said his big attacks, which are his strongest moves, are useless against her. I suggest we actually read the fight this time. Naruto stated that diversions and hand to hand combat are what he needs. Those are tactics. Not just strength. If Naruto had gone at her with just strength she would've easily overpowered his ass because she's two tiers above him.

Naruto w/o his Avatar was putting up a fight against her, while Naruto with his Avatar (Or rather, Sasuke w/ his Avatar who is equal with Naruto with his Avatar) would've (Sasuke was) gotten spanked against Kaguya. I guess we should say that Naruto w/o his AVatar>Naruto and Sasuke w/ their avatars, individually. Lol, of course not.

Tactics. That's it.

Did I even say that he didn't put up a fight? No. I stated he did so because of his tactics, not because of pure strength...unless you are telling me someone with half of Hagoromo's power can put up a legit fight, all strength, against someone who is stronger than Hagoromo with the Juubi...Lmao.

Not to mention Naruto being able to put up a fight against Kaguya who is a level above Madara doesn't mean that he can defeat Madara or that he's stronger than Madara, nor does it change the fact that So you don't even have a point with this part of your argument. Do me a favor and drop it.

"True power of Rikudo"

"Approaching my level" (Only had one eye and the Juubi at the time, second eye is a ridiculously massive boost)

That's portrayal. Those are statements. I suggest we read them and not ignore them. I never said it was an indisputable fact that Naruto and Sasuke are below Madara, so I suggest you don't come here with that "labeling your opinion as Manga fact" BS. What's a fact is that Madara is on Hagoromo's level or somewhere around it. That's a fact. What I also suggest is that you don't write off statements and portrayal because they don't agree with your viewpoint.

 

[Mad Titan Thanos]

As seen with Haruma, rikkudo senjutsu is something they were born with. In other words, Hagoromo has RSM+Juubi+rinnegan, wheras Madara's just Juubi+Rinnegan.

Hagoromo rikudo senjutsu power came from Juubi not the opposite.
Since they inherited power directly from Kaguya it isn´t surprise they have rikudo senjutsu.

JJ have Rikudo senjutsu since that power came from juubi not Hagoromo.
Madara already said he posess rikudo senjutsu and in manga he said it was sage mode (in both translations)

"It was correct to use sennin mode" while in other translation he said "you used sage mode only once"

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So Madara = RSM + Juubi + Rinnegan

 

[Amaterasu]

Madara wins mid-high diff;

 

[XY iNVeRSe]

If Madara is allowed to use his full potential then Madara wins mid diff

 

[DemonicAvenger]

Was thinking about this at work, and I changed my mind a bit. The diff stays at High, but Madara takes this convincingly. If he has the Sharrinnegan, then the diff could even go to Mid-High.

It took Naruto's second strongest attack (6 Bijudama Rasen-Shruikens) along with 1 BDFRS that preceded it, as well as Sasuke dicing a few on the way up to completely counter Madara's Chibaku Tensei downpour. Granted Naruto may be able pump out more chakra to counter this (Even more since the number could increase if he has the SR), but in this scenario Madara will be on top of him with a Rikudo Senjutsu enhanced PS fueled by the Juubi's Chakra (even stronger if he has the Sharrinnegan). Which would be a decent deal stronger than Sasuke's, so Naruto would have to resort to Avatar Bunshin.

By scaling his PS shouldn't even get scratched by a normal BD, so Naruto would end up using Fuuton variants as well as having to use multiples. Which would turn into a stamina problem since he's at a disadvantage against JJ Madara in that area. Which is bad considering the fight would end up staying on that scale. The earlier strategy with Chibaku Tensei Downpour could be a real issue too if Madara stays above them an uses PS shockwaves.

If Naruto uses his VOTE 2 finale then Madara could just return fire with Quad Juubidama​

​

 

[Chaosmark101]

Was thinking about this at work, and I changed my mind a bit. The diff stays at High, but Madara takes this convincingly. If he has the Sharrinnegan, then the diff could even go to Mid-High.

It took Naruto's second strongest attack (6 Bijudama Rasen-Shruikens) along with 1 BDFRS that preceded it, as well as Sasuke dicing a few on the way up to completely counter Madara's Chibaku Tensei downpour. Granted Naruto may be able pump out more chakra to counter this (Even more since the number could increase if he has the SR), but in this scenario Madara will be on top of him with a Rikudo Senjutsu enhanced PS fueled by the Juubi's Chakra (even stronger if he has the Sharrinnegan). Which would be a decent deal stronger than Sasuke's, so Naruto would have to resort to Avatar Bunshin.

By scaling his PS shouldn't even get scratched by a normal BD, so Naruto would end up using Fuuton variants as well as having to use multiples. Which would turn into a stamina problem since he's at a disadvantage against JJ Madara in that area. Which is bad considering the fight would end up staying on that scale. The earlier strategy with Chibaku Tensei Downpour could be a real issue too if Madara stays above them an uses PS shockwaves.

If Naruto uses his VOTE 2 finale then Madara could just return fire with Quad Juubidama​

​

*gulp* or JJ Indras Arrow.

 

[Nagato The Sage]

Madara takes this easy

With one Rinnegan and without the Shinju he was approaching Hagoromo's level, according to the man himself. The Shinju and his other Rinnegan is an insanely large boost, and if he has Kaguya's Rinnegan as well then Naruto stands absolutely no chance.

 

[Uchihakil]

madaras PS enhanced with juubi chakra,will stomp naruto so hard it wont be funny

 

[Itachi of the Uchiha clan]

Madara wins this.

 

[Holy God]

VOTE2 Naruto would high-diff. The biju abilities, such as his steam punch, are pretty OP, but that alone wouldn't beat Madara with the rinnegan. What he needs is his Ashura Avatar, which should be more powerful than Madara. Remember, Madara/=/Naruto+Sasuke in chakra quality. He used the juubi to give him 6 paths senjutsu, which Naurto has. Naruto stalemated the biju Susanoo, which was formed by rikkudo chakra comparable to Madara (given that Sasuke caught up to him, and shows countless times he's a match for rikkudo senjutsu) in addition to the chakra of the bijus on top of that. For Naruto to stalemate that, at least terms of brute power, Naruto surpasses Madara.

Also, Naruto does have a method of defeating Madara. If he gets the upper hand, he can use tailed beast RS to unleash the biju chakra inside of Madara and remove them. Madara will either die outright, or will loose his rikkudo powers, making it easy for Naruto to overwhelm, and seal him.

"Portrayal" is not an accurate measurement in the slightest. It's not quantifiable, and it's absolutely subjective. Considering Madara was getting serious when starting up IT, there's little to no basis in believing that Madara's demonstration of deva path was inferior to what he could do.(aside from combining the fragments for a big one) Additionally, Naruto was holding his own against Kaguya, who was noted to, even then, be fare more powerful than Madara. By "portrayal" that'd make Naruto equal or stronger wouldn't it?

Naruto and Sasuke combined don't have half of Madara's chakra. If you're counting in the story, he can also absorb the chakra of people under Infinite Tsukuyomi. Sasuke himself probably only has the quantity of one tailed beast and Naruto and Kurama together take up only about two-and-a-half. Together, they make up less than four tailed beasts, and that's being a bit generous in probability.

 

[Kushina san]

Madara

Madara also beats Naruto Hokage...is immortal .... Naruto without the technique of seal can not defeat him.