Mei vs Kakuzu

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I still dont get the point on the Madara. She used it, Madara left it, Ay pushes him back to the area, which Madara needed to protect himself then. How does this prove anything here.
I'm just showing you that the lava isn't slow by any means.

Well your premise shows he can decide to turn on and off Susanoo at any time. So he can decide to block or dodge.
Turning on susanoo isn't the same as turning it off and dodging.

Umm ok, no. Kakashi had full intention to finish off Hidan. There's no evidence that states or shows Kakashi "oh let me end this now, by moving a normal speed". That makes zero sense. The very fact that Kakashi speed> Kakauzu and caught him even with 3 Tome on is a very good feat, the fact, which shows these Lava gets dodged to someone in Kakashi' range of speed and reaction.
That doesn't proof that Kakuzu is more reflexive than Kakashi. I'll give you additional proof why Mei can tag Kakuzu with yoton at close range especially if he tries attacking Mei in CQC. Mei can simply move her mouth to change her aim if Kakuzu sidesteps. Moving your head to the side is much easier than moving your entire body sideways. If Kakuzu jumps backwards, Mei jumps forward. Kakuzu isn't outrunning Mei by jumping backwards when she'll move forward.

Viz words it better so Im gonna need to find it soon.

Im not using no limit fallcy, I am basing it off to what Mei's Suiton is capable of. Im sure Kakuzu's can take care of a Buiju Size Suiton if both attacks are the same size. Not claiming it can do a Suiton that would be like Juubi size of something.

Ill wait till I find viz concerning Kakashi's that combo, either way that wasnt Kakuzu's best feat with that combo, as we seen it here[ ], which is way bigger.

Is there proof for your claim that Mei>Yamato (not talking about hand speed and efficiency but as logic of exchange from the power of both jutsus users) in Suiton? Have you seen Yamato Suiton during Naruto's training? Biggest width of Suiton we have witness thus far. Debate if she can solo thier attack 1v1 all you want but a combination would always be superior here.

P.S. Mei uses pre existing water to use another Suiton attack, not adding more water.
Kakuzu being able to take care of the water pillar doesn't mean Mei will take damage. The combination being superior doesn't mean that elemental advantage won't allow Mei to cancel out the katon at the cost of her entire suiton getting evaporated. I know the combination that Kakashi blocked wasn't as large but the difference between the two combinations is smaller than the difference between Mei's water pillar and Kakashi's water wall. Yamato's waterfall wasn't anywhere near as thick as Mei's water pillar. I already showed you Mei spitting out additional water while Ay is sending electricity in the water.

The water dragon traversed the entire length of the jinton cube and was still connected to Mei's mouth which means it was extremely long. This goes to show Mei can spit out a large amount of water so her water wall should be scaled up to her water pillar. If Mei uses water pillar and for some reason it's not strong enough, a water wall can be spit out to reinforce the water pillar to create a defence twice as strong.

What you mean? A force applied perpendicular to the surface of an object is very important to know what happens to when it encounters it. Lets not throw Hidan in this, as manga already states his immorality defy the damage done from the tech. It pushed and crackes rib cage so not a good example. Kakuzu's Futon against Mei's it will push water along Mei herself.
Hidan being immortal doesn't mean he doesn't take damage. It just means the damage isn't enough to put him down. Tsunade cracking ribcage doesn't change the fact it was still intact and that Madara was unharmed. Kakuzu's fuuton will just disperse to the sides considering the pressure to the sides of water pillar is much less than the pressure within the water pillar. Mei getting splashed by a bit of water isn't going to do anything to her.
 

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Um what the hell. It doesn't matter if it's a small Futon+Katon, that was an extremely small non-Affinity Suiton from Kakashi which wasn't pushed back. Yes, the fire was too much for a weaker and smaller Suiton from a non-proficient Suiton user.
@bold What?........... Flames now produce force when oxidised? I sincerely hope you are not a chemistry student, because that is not remotely how it works. Fire oxidation does not produce force, it merely produces more flames. You are talking about explosions which are completely different as they release shockwaves, they are not pure oxidation. And no, we saw what Futon's addition to Katon did to Kakashi's Suiton in terms of force; absolutely nothing. Inb4 that small scale argument again; both of them were small scale so the result should be the same as you suggest.

What are you saying? IT PUSHED BACK THE SUITON AND ANNIHILATED IT COMPLETELY BECAUSE IT WAS SMALL.....you're using way to much real life sciences here, this isn't a ****ing Bunsen burner, its a flame that already has force as its ****ing moving towards a target, now if you oxidize it, which is basically compressing it in flame terms, what the **** do you think is going to happen? Is it going to gain or lose momentum .-. The fact that the second version of his combination is that big after being oxidized already means that it shits on anything in mei's arsenal. Especially should it be moving directly at the pillar .-. I don't know why you're saying size means anything :lol, Mei's pillar gets blown through, its that simply especially since she needed two suitons to even counter a NORMAL KATON.

And here you go again with your databook scans, :lol. We saw what happened when this amazingly powerful explosive combustive force made contact with a non-affinity small scale Suiton right? Barely anything in terms of pressure. Sure, if manga physics says it has more force from the addition of more fire (more oxygen) then it does. But it has absolutely nothing to do with the force of the Futon itself, as that was never suggested. You can't say it's as strong as a Futon pressure wise. You can simply say it's stronger, but you can't quantify said force increase so it still doesn't have any relevance versus Mei's Water pillar.

What? Are you saying, can you read...seriously i'm legit concerned for the fact that you either haven't read the manga or you're just a complete fool spouting chemistry and physics nonsense

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Do you see the flame.....DO YOU SEE THE FLAME BEHIND KAKUZU it pushed right through the suiton, and annihilated it completely, Kakuzu wanted Kakashi's heart so it wasn't even meant for him really.

Even in the scan you yourself posted, it shows the katon pushed past the suiton before Kakashi could even move away

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Idk what you're saying about the databook, all it proved was that it already had explosive force :lol You my friend are a fool. We can quantify it to Mei's water pillar, because

A)Its not really that much bigger, if any bigger than Kakuzu's second Combination attack.

B)It has force behind it, which when oxidized .-. Almost turns it into a bullet of flames, so it punches right through

C)The heat even evaporates a good portion of the pillar, making it smaller .-.


And D) It only needs to disrupt the flow of the suiton and the pillar itself falls.


Your fancy calculations, and "Real life Chemistry" don't mean shit.
 

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What are you saying? IT PUSHED BACK THE SUITON AND ANNIHILATED IT COMPLETELY BECAUSE IT WAS SMALL.....you're using way to much real life sciences here, this isn't a ****ing Bunsen burner, its a flame that already has force as its ****ing moving towards a target, now if you oxidize it, which is basically compressing it in flame terms, what the **** do you think is going to happen? Is it going to gain or lose momentum .-. The fact that the second version of his combination is that big after being oxidized already means that it shits on anything in mei's arsenal. Especially should it be moving directly at the pillar .-. I don't know why you're saying size means anything :lol, Mei's pillar gets blown through, its that simply especially since she needed two suitons to even counter a NORMAL KATON.

For starters, u mad?
Second of all, you are wrong. The initial force of the Katon+Futon is apparent [ ]. When Kakashi uses his Futon it is obvious that it wasn't completely ploughed through by pressure like you suggested [ ]. So something 100 times stronger than this would obviously not be affected either. The only reason Kakashi stopped was because his Suiton could not cool the fire fast enough due to the addition of Futon. Hence he stopped streaming Suiton as the eventual Katon+Futon would approach more and more as it burns the Suiton faster than his Suiton cools down the Katon+Futon. I don't understand how oxidation=compression in flame terms. And I didn't say it wouldn't gain momentum, my main point was that it wouldn't have the pressure a normal Futon has as the Katon would eat through it. And no, Kakashi's Suiton is 3 times his own size, that's literally incomparably smaller than Mei's Suiton. You can't even begin to draw out a conclusion from Kakashi's non-affinty baby Suiton. It's like saying because a sprinke of water doesn't extinguish a fire a gallon of water wouldn't. No comparison. How does Suiton size NOT mean anything? More Suiton=more energy required to extinguish it. PERIOD. What reason do I have to believe that a Suiton so large that it doesn't even fit in the panel Kishi is conveying it in can be evaporated by something without remotely enough energy to do so? And What? She countered Madara's Suiton with a single Suiton and then altered that mass of Suiton to initiate a counter attack. She didn't need two suitons to extinguish 1 Katon lmao.

What? Are you saying, can you read...seriously i'm legit concerned for the fact that you either haven't read the manga or you're just a complete fool spouting chemistry and physics nonsense

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Do you see the flame.....DO YOU SEE THE FLAME BEHIND KAKUZU it pushed right through the suiton, and annihilated it completely, Kakuzu wanted Kakashi's heart so it wasn't even meant for him really.

Even in the scan you yourself posted, it shows the katon pushed past the suiton before Kakashi could even move away

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How ironic, isn't it? Aren't you the one who mentioned Oxidation in the first place? Because I sure as hell didn't. You try to bring in chemistry and then it came back to bite you in the ass. That's on you, not me. And you reading comprehension is piss poor if you think Mei's Suiton can be evaporated by Kakuzu's Katon+Futon.

Kakashi DID move away though, so what are you talking about? Lmao. Not to mention, Kakashi has no affinity for Suiton, and his Suiton is baby level compared to Mei. So if anything this point works against Kakuzu. The only thing that touched Kakashi was Kakuzu, not the flame.


Idk what you're saying about the databook, all it proved was that it already had explosive force :lol You my friend are a fool. We can quantify it to Mei's water pillar, because

A)Its not really that much bigger, if any bigger than Kakuzu's second Combination attack.

B)It has force behind it, which when oxidized .-. Almost turns it into a bullet of flames, so it punches right through

C)The heat even evaporates a good portion of the pillar, making it smaller .-.


And D) It only needs to disrupt the flow of the suiton and the pillar itself falls.


Your fancy calculations, and "Real life Chemistry" don't mean shit.

No, it didn't, because it didn't send back Kakshi's Suiton, but rather evaporated through it. If it had massive explosive force like you suggest than Kakashi's Suiton would've been bypassed in milliseconds, literally. But he used it, noticed it was getting evaporated faster than pushing the combo back, and then merely walked away from it lmao.

A) I await your scans that prove such. Up to now it's been baseless claims of Kakuzu's combo>Mei's Suiton in size. When that's CLEARLY not the case from what I showed. But you'd rather make baseless claims; like usual.

B) Just like it did against Kakashi's Suiton right? Lmao. Just stop with this argument, you're making yourself look like an idiot.

C) It would, but it would still be intact for a counter attack. Not to mention I believe Kakuzu wins, but I don't believe Mei's Futon can be countered by anything bar Domu.

D) And how exactly will it do that when Mei has complete control over it?
 

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Kakuzu's Katon never pushed through Kakashi's Suiton. Kakashi was shown to have stopped using Suiton as Kakuzu's Katon still remained intact which was significant as Suiton should've been able to penetrate a Katon yet didn't here, so Kakashi believed that it was pointless to even continue using his Suiton, especially with he stamina decreasing fairly rapidly.

Furthermore, Kakashi has no affinity for Suiton while Mei does and Mei has enhanced chakra control with Suiton considering she can use it and combine it with different elements to form a different Kekkai Genkai while Kakashi is unable to do so which should logically imply that Mei's Suiton would be more potent in general. Now, factor in that her's is a far bigger Suiton than Kakashi had ever been shown to make and you have the potential of Mei actually busting through Kakuzu's Katon.
 
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Kakuzu's Katon never pushed through Kakashi's Suiton. Kakashi was shown to have stopped using Suiton as Kakuzu's Katon still remained intact which was significant as Suiton shoudl be able to overpower Kakashi's.

Furthermore, Kakashi has no affinity for Suiton while Mei does and Mei has enhanced chakra control with Suiton considering she can use it and combine it with different elements to form a different Kekkai Genkai while Kakashi is unable to do so which should logically imply that Mei's Suiton would be more potent in general. Now, factor in that her's is a far bigger Suiton than Kakashi had ever been shown to make and you have the potential of Mei actually busting through Kakuzu's Katon.

Whose alt are you?
 

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So much bullshit, so little time.

For starters, u mad?
Second of all, you are wrong. The initial force of the Katon+Futon is apparent [ ]. When Kakashi uses his Futon it is obvious that it wasn't completely ploughed through by pressure like you suggested [ ].

Yes it initially explodes .-. Now picture that 3 times bigger :lol the explosion would be that times larger as well. Bruh, they clashed and Kakuzu's made it through, and since it was a smaller version its range was much smaller than his second one that was used.

So something 100 times stronger than this would obviously not be affected either. The only reason Kakashi stopped was because his Suiton could not cool the fire fast enough due to the addition of Futon. Hence he stopped streaming Suiton as the eventual Katon+Futon would approach more and more as it burns the Suiton faster than his Suiton cools down the Katon+Futon. I don't understand how oxidation=compression in flame terms. And I didn't say it wouldn't gain momentum, my main point was that it wouldn't have the pressure a normal Futon has as the Katon would eat through it. And no, Kakashi's Suiton is 3 times his own size, that's literally incomparably smaller than Mei's Suiton. You can't even begin to draw out a conclusion from Kakashi's non-affinty baby Suiton. It's like saying because a sprinke of water doesn't extinguish a fire a gallon of water wouldn't. No comparison. How does Suiton size NOT mean anything? More Suiton=more energy required to extinguish it. PERIOD. What reason do I have to believe that a Suiton so large that it doesn't even fit in the panel Kishi is conveying it in can be evaporated by something without remotely enough energy to do so? And What? She countered Madara's Suiton with a single Suiton and then altered that mass of Suiton to initiate a counter attack. She didn't need two suitons to extinguish 1 Katon lmao.

Yeah forgot the pillar erupted to protect Tsunade.

Anyways, bruh you clearly don't get it. The suiton couldn't cool it off at ALL Kakashi literally states " You can't put the combination out with just suiton". Now if Kakuzu's second combination which is much bigger than his first (btw Kakashi's suiton isn't 100 less times the size of mei's .-. It really wasn't that big) Id say they are roughly the same size. Anyways it doesn't matter how much suiton is there, normal water can't coot it off at all. Its that simple, why would the size matter? Will every ounce of the water in the suiton be touching the flames? No, the size of the flames is the amount of water that touches it. This isn't an ocean its a pillar, its not just going to shrink until its nothing, once the flames evaporate the suiton in front of it the whole thing will collapse, as it would weaken it enough to bust through. Its that simple, water will never be enough to cool the flames, hence why YamatoNEEDED to combine his with the wind and i'd say its about the same size as Mei's (I don't think you understand how large those tree's are, and notice how you can't even see them? You could see both Tsunade and Madara in Mei's case. May not be how the real world works, but it is here.

Besides Mei's jutsu is a pillar it rises up than falls back down, AT THE VERY LEAST The Suiton stalls it, falls back down and the Katon continues forward.





How ironic, isn't it? Aren't you the one who mentioned Oxidation in the first place? Because I sure as hell didn't. You try to bring in chemistry and then it came back to bite you in the ass. That's on you, not me. And you reading comprehension is piss poor if you think Mei's Suiton can be evaporated by Kakuzu's Katon+Futon.

It doesn't have to be fully evaporated, once it evaporates the suiton directly encountering it, its weak enough to just blast through it.

Do you know what oxidation is? The gaining of oxygen makes the flame more compressed and compact .-. whereas the less oxygen the more scatted and over the place it is. Its wikipedia, want something more credible look it up yourself.

Kakashi DID move away though, so what are you talking about? Lmao. Not to mention, Kakashi has no affinity for Suiton, and his Suiton is baby level compared to Mei. So if anything this point works against Kakuzu. The only thing that touched Kakashi was Kakuzu, not the flame.

Barely? And yes, as I said he was trying to replace the heart he lost Official Viz says basically the same thing.



No, it didn't, because it didn't send back Kakshi's Suiton, but rather evaporated through it. If it had massive explosive force like you suggest than Kakashi's Suiton would've been bypassed in milliseconds, literally. But he used it, noticed it was getting evaporated faster than pushing the combo back, and then merely walked away from it lmao.

A) I await your scans that prove such. Up to now it's been baseless claims of Kakuzu's combo>Mei's Suiton in size. When that's CLEARLY not the case from what I showed. But you'd rather make baseless claims; like usual.

B) Just like it did against Kakashi's Suiton right? Lmao. Just stop with this argument, you're making yourself look like an idiot.

C) It would, but it would still be intact for a counter attack. Not to mention I believe Kakuzu wins, but I don't believe Mei's Futon can be countered by anything bar Domu.

D) And how exactly will it do that when Mei has complete control over it?[/QUOTE]
 

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So much bullshit, so little time.
You missed a big part of my counter here:

No, it didn't, because it didn't send back Kakshi's Suiton, but rather evaporated through it. If it had massive explosive force like you suggest than Kakashi's Suiton would've been bypassed in milliseconds, literally. But he used it, noticed it was getting evaporated faster than pushing the combo back, and then merely walked away from it lmao.

A) I await your scans that prove such. Up to now it's been baseless claims of Kakuzu's combo>Mei's Suiton in size. When that's CLEARLY not the case from what I showed. But you'd rather make baseless claims; like usual.

B) Just like it did against Kakashi's Suiton right? Lmao. Just stop with this argument, you're making yourself look like an idiot.

C) It would, but it would still be intact for a counter attack. Not to mention I believe Kakuzu wins, but I don't believe Mei's Futon can be countered by anything bar Domu.

D) And how exactly will it do that when Mei has complete control over it?



Yes it initially explodes .-. Now picture that 3 times bigger :lol the explosion would be that times larger as well. Bruh, they clashed and Kakuzu's made it through, and since it was a smaller version its range was much smaller than his second one that was used.

How does that help? It won't touch the Water pillar from the first second it's used, because Kakuzu is the one who's attacking offensively, meaning his jutsu must reach Mei's Suiton. By then explosions would be long gone. And picture it 3 times bigger? Kakashi used a Suiton that was over 40 times smaller than Mei's lmao, foh Zex.

Yeah forgot the pillar erupted to protect Tsunade.

Anyways, bruh you clearly don't get it. The suiton couldn't cool it off at ALL Kakashi literally states " You can't put the combination out with just suiton". Now if Kakuzu's second combination which is much bigger than his first (btw Kakashi's suiton isn't 100 less times the size of mei's .-. It really wasn't that big) Id say they are roughly the same size. Anyways it doesn't matter how much suiton is there, normal water can't coot it off at all. Its that simple, why would the size matter? Will every ounce of the water in the suiton be touching the flames? No, the size of the flames is the amount of water that touches it. This isn't an ocean its a pillar, its not just going to shrink until its nothing, once the flames evaporate the suiton in front of it the whole thing will collapse, as it would weaken it enough to bust through. Its that simple, water will never be enough to cool the flames, hence why YamatoNEEDED to combine his with the wind and i'd say its about the same size as Mei's (I don't think you understand how large those tree's are, and notice how you can't even see them? You could see both Tsunade and Madara in Mei's case. May not be how the real world works, but it is here.

That's not how it works man. Suiton would still cool it down, it just wouldn't cool it down as much as it would has it been pure Katon without Futon. It's close to 40 times bigger, which is must different between the difference in Kakuzu's 2 Katon+Futons. And once again, please stop with this bullshit. Kakuzu's Katon+Futon dos not have enough energy to evaporate such an amount of water. And yes, IT DOES have to evaporate it all as water is cohesive and Mei has FULL control of the water. Water will cool the flames because the heat from the flames is lost forcing water into gaseous state, which takes LOTS of energy. That's how water evaporates in the first plac.

Besides Mei's jutsu is a pillar it rises up than falls back down, AT THE VERY LEAST The Suiton stalls it, falls back down and the Katon continues forward.

Umm what? Last time she used it she countered a katon and then changed it into a dragon. So she has full control of it the entire time. Clearly, you don't know what you are talking about here if you think it falls back down.
It doesn't have to be fully evaporated, once it evaporates the suiton directly encountering it, its weak enough to just blast through it.

Do you know what oxidation is? The gaining of oxygen makes the flame more compressed and compact .-. whereas the less oxygen the more scatted and over the place it is. Its wikipedia, want something more credible look it up yourself.

Barely? And yes, as I said he was trying to replace the heart he lost Official Viz says basically the same thing.

Too bad it's cohesive and Mei controls it.
Yes, I already showed you my scientific understanding is vastly more extensive than yours. Yet you come here and tell me 'fire can become more compact'. Oxidation just allows it to burn hotter and faster, period.
And lol, he moved away, so the end. Not to mention he had to land first and then move, so not barely by any means.
 

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You missed a big part of my counter here:







How does that help? It won't touch the Water pillar from the first second it's used, because Kakuzu is the one who's attacking offensively, meaning his jutsu must reach Mei's Suiton. By then explosions would be long gone. And picture it 3 times bigger? Kakashi used a Suiton that was over 40 times smaller than Mei's lmao, foh Zex.



That's not how it works man. Suiton would still cool it down, it just wouldn't cool it down as much as it would has it been pure Katon without Futon. It's close to 40 times bigger, which is must different between the difference in Kakuzu's 2 Katon+Futons. And once again, please stop with this bullshit. Kakuzu's Katon+Futon dos not have enough energy to evaporate such an amount of water. And yes, IT DOES have to evaporate it all as water is cohesive and Mei has FULL control of the water. Water will cool the flames because the heat from the flames is lost forcing water into gaseous state, which takes LOTS of energy. That's how water evaporates in the first plac.



Umm what? Last time she used it she countered a katon and then changed it into a dragon. So she has full control of it the entire time. Clearly, you don't know what you are talking about here if you think it falls back down.


Too bad it's cohesive and Mei controls it.
Yes, I already showed you my scientific understanding is vastly more extensive than yours. Yet you come here and tell me 'fire can become more compact'. Oxidation just allows it to burn hotter and faster, period.
And lol, he moved away, so the end. Not to mention he had to land first and then move, so not barely by any means.

Why would you do this? We narrowed it down to basically a size argument on skype, trying to look cool aye.
 

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Why would you do this? We narrowed it down to basically a size argument on skype, trying to look cool aye.

Half the points here weren't mentioned in the skype convo, not to mention i'd rather put points to counter your piss poor claims for anyone who might think your points made sense (not seeing how that's possible tho). Anyways, couldn't care less about being 'cool' on a forum lmao.
 

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Half the points here weren't mentioned in the skype convo, not to mention i'd rather put points to counter your piss poor claims for anyone who might think your points made sense (not seeing how that's possible tho). Anyways, couldn't care less about being 'cool' on a forum lmao.

Yes they were you just couldn't counter and went straight for your pixels.
 

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Yes they were you just couldn't counter and went straight for your pixels.

Pretty much everyone in the chat said I was right. And at the end of the day, pixels are more accurate then eyes so i'd rather draw out a comparison using pixels than trying to put everything into proportion by chance. Regardless, my last response to someone who thought Kakuzu's fire could exist in the environment without oxygen.
 

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Pretty much everyone in the chat said I was right. And at the end of the day, pixels are more accurate then eyes so i'd rather draw out a comparison using pixels than trying to put everything into proportion by chance. Regardless, my last response to someone who thought Kakuzu's fire could exist in the environment without oxygen.

Lmfao really gona use a ****ing typo now? I meant less oxygen anyone with a brain could tell.

At the end of the day, his shit already has shown to be > Suiton of its own size and its Second shown Size is > That of Mei's suiton, which yes even with pixels is subjective. So lmfao think what you want.
 

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Whose alt are you?

Instead of conveying to me what part of my post was wrong, you just assume that I'm alt just to belittle me? Do you just automatically assume I'm an alt because I hold the same opinion as most members on here?

But just to answer your question, I'm your alt. :lmao:

Edit: I did partially edit my post just to make what I said a little bit more clear.
 
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