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This is a lengthy interview. It's broken into 3 parts & special thanks to Ichiryuu from millennium forums for posting this interview and letting me share this with you guys! The interview (2013) can found in Toriko volume 24. Even if you're not a fan of Toriko or don't read the series, it's still a good read. Who knows, you may learn something new about Kishimoto or be interested in reading Toriko.
Part 1 of the interview:
Part 2 of the interview:
Part 3 of the interview (Kishimoto talks about Toriko and contains minor spoilers (nothing that huge)):
Overall, I found this to be an entertaining interview to read and a nice treat to us Toriko fans. I learned quite a bit about both Shima & Kishi from this interview. It must of been difficult for him to transition from doing gag manga to a battle/adventure manga like Toriko. Someday, I hope that Shimabukuro and Oda sensei will have an interview together (perhaps when Toriko ends). They're both very good friends and Oda is a fan of Toriko. I never knew Kishi. was a fan of Toriko until I read this interview lol.
I hope you guys enjoyed reading the interview! It is long but a fun read. If any Naruto fans were intrigued about the series Toriko while reading the interview, definitely check out the manga.
Part 1 of the interview:
Today we'd like to start our interview with you two leading figures of shonen manga by discussing the praise "the golden standard in shonen manga" Let's get right to the point. What does it mean to you?
Kishimoto: I'll start by talking about the "standard." When I began Naruto, I don't think anyone considered it a standard.
Shimabukuro: I still don't consider Toriko a standard of manga either (laugh). If I had to pick the standard I guess I'd say Dragon Ball.
What sets it apart?
Kishimoto: Dragon ball doesn't really use Drama instead of calling it the standard in shonen manga, it might be more accurate to call it the standard in shonen battle manga.
When you say "drama"are you referring to the kind of "human drama" where characters' pasts and feelings are delved into?
Kishimito: That's right. Dragon Ball rarely goes into the past and moves forward organically. At the beginning, I thought Toriko would go down the same path as Dragon Ball.
Shimabukuro: That's probably because when I created Toriko I set out to make something like Dragon Ball (laugh).
But One Piece is full of human drama isn't it?
Kishimoto: Naruto has plenty of drama in it, but Toriko doesn't really push the drama aspect and instead introduces all these larger-than-life creatures and disturbing enemies. It's always doing the unexpected. In that sense, I think Toriko is a lot like Dragon Ball.
Assuming that being the standard also means that something is popular, then one could say that battle manga are the standard of Weekly Shonen Jump. Some depict human drama like Naruto and One Piece, and others like Toriko and Dragon Ball emphasize shock and surprise. You could say there are two kinds of standards.
Moving on, when you draw shonen manga, what sort of things are you particularly conscious of?
Kishimoto: I guess the first thing I keep in my mind is readability--showing things in a way that will be easy to understand. What that means for the art is choosing the best camera position and angles, and considering which expressions will convey information best to the readers.
Say you're looking at a one-shot by a new manga artist. What do you notice first?
Kishimoto: I tend to muse that if only they'd dug a little deeper during their meetings with their editor and in the storyboard stage, then they could've made it more interesting. For example, this includes works where the whole setup of the story is explained through words alone. I think that normally explanation should be shown slowly and carefully over a number of chapters with various episodes.
Shimabukuro: It can feel like such a waste, because the art itself can be really good.
Kishimoto: Also, when the camera angles are mediocre. When it's always the same angle and same position, a work can lack real dynamism. Looking at Toriko, I notice a lot of crane shots interspersed with close-ups of characters' faces, so it tells me that he really thought this through. That in itself makes it stand out quite a bit.
Shimabukuro: This is of course true for the drawings, but the story, too, has to be well thought out. Especially in a battle manga, it's important to make the reason for the characters' fighting easy to understand. In the case of Toriko, I made the goal "fighting to eat" which I think is pretty easy to grasp.
Everyone eats so, it's intuitive.
Shimabukuro: I still need to work out some of the characters' motivations, but I think the eating one was a good place to start.
Manga Influences
Before you became manga artists, were there any people or works that inspired you?
Kishimoto: To be frank, there were tons (laugh).
Shimabukuro: Same for me. I think I was inspired by movies, novels and games. Manga, in particular, was a huge part of my life.
Kishimoto: When I was a kid, if I hadn't read Jump I would be completely out of the loop when my friends were talking That's how big it was.
Shimabukuro: But there were the two camps of Jump readers--magazine vs. graphic novels. When the magazine readers would be talking about the latest developments, the graphic novel readers would get mad at them and shout "No spoilers!" (laugh). In those days, the Internet didn't have as big a presence, so you were most likely to hear a spoiler while talking with your friends.
Out of the many influences it seems like you had, what's the first one that comes to mind?
Shimabukuro: For me, I think it all started with reading Ultimate Muscle in Jump. I was also very influenced by the anime. As a kid, you become a fan of something through the anime first, right?
Kishimoto: I think that was true for me too. I used to watch Dr. Slump.
How about since becoming manga artists? What are some people or works that have influenced you?
Kishimoto: there are definitely a lot of works that influenced me, but in terms of people I guess I haven't met all that many.
Shimabukuro: Even when I go to the Jump New Year's party, I can't match the other creators' faces to their names.
Kishimoto: Shimabukuro is the second Jump creator that I've gotten to have an in-depth conversation with through an interview like this. The last time was with Togashi Sensei. But none since then.
Shimabukuro: Younger manga creators might find it difficult to strike up a conversation with someone like Oda or Kishimoto. Unless an editor introduces them or something.
Kishimoto: That might be it. But speaking of Togashi Sensei, I learned a lot from him when Naruto was starting.
Back then, both Hunter x Hunter and Naruto had the same editor, right?
Kishimoto: Yep, Togashi Sensei has a lot of experience, and is really good at directing scenes. That's why studying Hunter x Hunter taught me a lot. If you wanted to talk about the standard in battle manga, perhaps you should have talked to him (laugh).
Shimabukuro: Togashi Sensei is often called a gifted auteur, composing a vivid world and story with the manga medium.
Kishimoto: During our interview, Togashi Sensei said that he's always striving to outdo reader expectations. He said that he outright avoids orthodox plot turns. Like presenting options A and B, but then having the character choose the not-there option of C.
It does make the readers' hearts race when things develop in a way they never saw coming.
Kishimoto: at the time, when asked what he does when it gets out of hand, he said, "even when the story goes in an unexpected direction, there's still a sense that everything will come around in the end."
Shimabukuro: I see. That must be the wisdom of experience.
Kishimoto: Exactly. It's a way only a veteran could think. Even if a newbie tried to emulate that, it probably wouldn't come out right. It's a lot like what you've said about characters coming to you out of the blue, Shimabukuro.
Shimabukuro: That's only happened once (laugh). With Takeshi.
Kishimoto: But still, talking like this to you and Togashi Sensei leaves me feeling like I've got a lot of growing to do. It's stimulating.
Challenge... or chance?
It's not out of the ordinary for a newly serialized manga artist to be expected to churn out a lot of work very quickly. What were your experiences like?
Shimabukuro: When the second one-shot of Seikimatsu Leader Den Takeshi was greenlit, I suddenly had 30 pages to do and only two weeks before the deadline.
Thiry pages in two weeks is quite the workload.
Shimabukuro: Yeah. I got the call when I was at my parents' house for New Year's and immediately agreed to do the project. As I recall, it consisted of two chapters, and I got the roughs for the first chapter done on the flight to Tokyo. Because I did that, I got hooked up with a serialization.
So you're saying that even though it was hard, you're glad you did it?
Shimabukuro: I see challenges as opportunities. If I were to say "I've got other plans," then there's no telling when my next chance would be. I have to pour everything I've got into every minute and second and stick to my guns.
It's up to us to take advantage of the opportunities that come our way. So tell me, how old were you when your first professional work was published?
Kishimoto: I was 25, I guess.
Shimabukuro: I think I was around 22 years old. At the time, I wanted to get a story serialized as soon as possible. I was in a real rush.
At age 22 , you were in a rush?
Shimabukuro: I sure was. At the time, I knew a guy called Kita who was drawing a manga called Makuhari. He was about 26 when he started the serialization for that. Looking at newbies these days, that's pretty normal. but since I was only around 20 at the time, I thought he was such an old man. I think he felt that way too because I remember him saying, "If this doesn't work out, I'm through."
Kishimoto: When I started serialization, I also felt like I was way behind. Shimabukuro was younger than me and Oda, who's my same age, had started serializing his work two years ahead of me.
Shimabukuro: Thinking back on it now, 25 or 26 isn't a late age to start at all. But Oda even received an award at a pretty young age. I mean, he was still in high school. He was this newcomer that everyone was taking their hats off for.
What do you think of Oda Sensei?
Shimabukuro: He really is special. First off, his manga is interesting. It has been ever since he was only doing one-shots.
Kishimoto: I've also read many of Oda's works, including the one that won him the Hop Step Award. Don't other newbies' award winning works strike you too? When I read them, I'm so entertained and impressed. Back then, there was another guy named Yamakawa, and both he and Oda were so talented that even my editor told me that I should read their works.
Shimabukuro: Back then, gag was in. Usuta was serializing Sexy Commando Gaiden: Sugoi yo!! Masaru-san and Oguri was serializing Hanasaka Tenshi Tenten-kun, so the genre was alive. I'm a little sad that the gag is on the decline. I wish there were more newbies creating gag manga. Like Sawai's Bobobo-bo Bo-bobo. It would be nice to have more high-energy gag manga like that coming out.
Part 2 of the interview:
A Manga Artist's Life
Shimabukuro: Kishimoto, when did you move to Tokyo? Right after graduating from college?
Kishimoto: No, I first drew in my house. I came to Tokyo after my serialization was greenlit, and I went apartment hunting with my editor.
Shimabukuro: That must've been tough at first.
Kishimoto: Actually, I had a lucky break. Usually, when you're chosen for serialization, you have to start right away, but in my case, there happened to be a delay, so I had time to accumulate some storyboards before it started. I had a backlog of the first eight chapters before I started serialization.
Shimabukuro: That is a lucky break. They really pile on the work when you start. All newbies ever want is time.
Kishimoto: To be honest, if I hadn't had time to prepare that backlog I might've found myself in a pinch. Because of the extra time, I was able to tweak and adjust all these little things before I submitted the final drafts.
Shimabukuro: If you have difficulty producing manga at the beginning, those first 15 weeks or so can be this constant state of being out of breath. When I started, I felt like I was fighting for my life. I had to think about my pages 24/7. I never relaxed.
Having to focus on work without even time to sleep is something that manga artists probably have in common with movie directors and composers.
Shimabukuro: That's probably true. I recently read a book by composer Joe Hisaishi, who scores movies and other works. When he gets a job he'll hole himself up in the studio for about a month, completely blocking out the outside world to create his music. I guess Hayo Miyazaki's the same way.
Kishimoto: I think Togashi Sensei's the same way too. He's said that he pulls the blinds and shuts out the world to create his own world, While eating crackers.
Shimabukuro: Why crackers? (laugh)
Kishimoto: I don't know the details, but I guess he considers "yummy treats" a stimulating influence on his world too.
Shimabukuro: Even if I'm not that stoic, there are times I want to cut off the outside world and concentrate. Back in the day, novelists would confine themselves to hotels to write, and that must be exactly why.
Kishimoto: If I see my family even once. it's hard for me to get back into "work mode."
Shimabukuro: When I go from "normal" to "work mode," it does take quite a bit of time to get back into the swing of things. And when I've taken a long break, I completely forget how I'm supposed to focus again.
Kishimoto: On the flip side, When I'm immersed in manga, whether I'm in bed or on the john, or even in the bathtub, I can't get manga out of my head. Sometimes I'll be thinking in the tub and realize, "wait, have I washed myself yet? Or do I still need to do that?" (laugh)
Shimabukuro: That's focus! (laugh) But it's true that great ideas can come to you in the bathtub.
Kishimoto: That's why I keep a notepad by the tub. So that I can write down ideas before I forget them. It's also why I forget if I've washed my hair and stuff.
Shimabukuro: who cares about it at that point, right? (laugh)
Hitting a wall.
Since becoming a manga artist, have you faced any struggles besides creating your manga?
Shimabukuro: I took on some assistants after the serialization began, but since I'd never had assistants before, I didn't know how to instruct them. It was difficult.
Kishimoto: I also had a really tough time with that.
Any anecdotes to share?
Kishimoto: Well, one time I hired on some assistants to help out for three days. At the end of those three days, the work still wasn't finished. Because I'd promised it'd only last three days, I let those assistants leave. Then I had to hire different assistants to finish the work.
Shimabukuro: The first assistant I had told me, "I have a part time job to go to, so I'm outta here," and then left (laugh).
Kishimoto: Wow, that's incredible (laugh).
Shimabukuro: My editor was pissed and made them quit their other job. After that they stayed on as a regular to help me. But at first I didn't know what was asking too much or what I should make allowances for, so that was tough. I think it would've done me some good if I'd had experience being an assistant somewhere else.
Kishimoto: That's definitely a wall you have to get over when first starting a serialization.
Is creating manga different when you've got a whole team of assistants to keep track of, compared to when you were alone?
Shimabukuro: It'd be similar, if it was just about drawing manga. But I'd never had experience hiring somebody. Still, I think I have been lucky. I've never had any major problems.
Kishimito: I think I've had it good too. I've heard stories about one big manga artist's assistant who asked him to make him ramen (laugh).
Shimabukuro: He should have made it himself (laugh). I wonder if he thought he'd get in trouble for making it.
Part 3 of the interview (Kishimoto talks about Toriko and contains minor spoilers (nothing that huge)):
Toriko secrets
Kishimoto: Are there any interesting things that never made it into Toriko?
Shimabukuro: Hmm. At first, Mellow Cola was going to go into Toriko's Full-Course Meal.
Kishimoto: Oh, really? You're talking about that food they went into the pyramid to retrieve, right?
Shimabukuro: Yeah, that one. Since soda's a popular drink with kids, I figured it'd be the perfect thing to add to Toriko's Full-Course Meal, but I got stuck with the storyboards so I figured I'd just drop that one.
Kishimoto: I'm surprised to hear that (laugh).
Shimabukuro: So on the spur of the moment, I decided to make it part of Zebra's Full-Course Meal instead.
Kishimoto: I was wondering where they'd find the Cola, so it really fascinated me that it ended up being the monster tears.
Shimabukuro: That arc didn't really move the story along much. I guess that's also why I added it to Zebra's Full-Course Meal.
Kishimoto: Still,, I think the way you show the story unfolding is so good, Shimabukuro. Like in the arc where they went fishing behind the waterfall. Since the fish would die of shock if they saw a strong person, having it be Komatsu was so clever. When did you think that up?
Shimabukuro: I decided that just before writing it. I figured I should give Komatsu his time to shine.
Kishimoto: So you stumbled upon that idea by instinct. And didn't a GT Robot-looking creature called a Nitro make an appearance in the pyramid? Had you always intended on the GT Robots being robots?
Shimabukuro: I'd always planned on the GT Robots being robots, only with the operators being a lot more mysterious.
Kishimoto: I also found it interesting that the Four-Beasts was actually just one creature. Your ideas really come out of left field, Shimabukuro.
Shimabukuro: When it comes to creating a hook that will bring people back, I want to make it as shocking and impactful as possible.
Kishimoto: And it is! But then, when you're drawing for the next week, you panic about how you're going to tie it all together, and the explanation gets so long. And when that happens, it's not very effective at all.
Shimabukuro: But part of it is expressing your intention to go in that particular direction. If I had all the time in the world, I would stop there and really think through all the different aspects.
Kishimoto: Shimabukuro, you draw an awful lot of crazy environments. Like Gourmet Casino, Gourmet Shrine or food stalls.
Shimabukuro: The assistants help me a lot with that. And on that note, I would say that the backgrounds in Naruto are a lot more difficult to draw, wouldn't you say?
Kishimoto: There are things like busy street scenes in Naruto. So I understand how difficult these things get.
Shimabukuro: But illustrations of the world are important. Since scenery shots express what the Age of Gourmet is all about, they may be difficult, but you've just got to draw them.
Kishimoto: Even though they take a lot of time, they're where the world of the series grows. Shimabukuro, are you quick with your pages?
Shimabukuro: Not at all. When I was drawing Takeshi, I was super slow. I even missed a deadline once.
There was one chapter where all your assistants worked together to draw it, wasn't there?
Shimabukuro: I had twelve hours before I'd be late for my deadline, and I didn't even have any storyboards. I had no hope of making it that week.
Kishimoto: I get the feeling that you could run into that problem with gag manga.
Shimabukuro: So when I was pressed up against the wall, I decided, "I'll make a gag out of the fact that I'm having my assistants do it." And that became the chapter.
Kishimoto: When I read it, I laughed myself silly (laugh). Also, since the seikimatsu in the title means "end of the Century," when the new millennium rolled around, you had to change the title, didn't you?
Shimabukuro: That's right. I had to make it the very last chapter (laugh). The truth is, I hadn't expected Takeshi to continue on for that long. Takeshi ran for five years, and even though Toriko's entering it's fifth year, Takeshi felt like it went on forever, and Toriko feels like it's gone by in the blink of an eye.
Kishimoto: Probably because Takeshi was a gag manga, right? You have to think up a completely new scenario each week, so it's tough to continue a gag for that long.
Shimabukuro: It's hard to have a gag manga run for even a year.
Kishimoto: I'm shocked it lasted five years.
Advice for Aspiring Manga Artists
Is there anything that people aspiring to become manga artists should do?
Kishimoto: Let's see... Get plenty of sleeping, eat right and stay healthy.
Shimabukuro: You're serious?! (laugh)
Kishimoto: But really it's important to be healthy. Since my body's not that sound, it's always been a concern for me.
Shimabukuro: When I was young, pulling all nighters for several days in a row was no big deal. But now three days is my limit.
Kishimoto: I can't even do three days. I'd say two is my limit. But my level of activity when I started serialization was off the charts. I thought to myself, "Is this what it means to publish weekly?!" I thought I was going to die, for sure.
Shimabukuro: Same for me. Nearly all 24 hours in the day were used for manga.
Kishimoto: I couldn't think about anything else. Besides eating, bathing, and going to the bathroom, I devoted all my time to manga.
So you're saying that when you're publishing weekly chapters, you need to have preparedness and willpower.
A Word To The Fans.
Do you have any messages for your fans?
Kishimoto: Naruto is going to start heading toward its climax and get even more action-packed. I hope all you readers stick with it to the very end.
Shimabukuro: Same here. I have a lot of exciting things in store for what comes after the fight with Gourmet Corp. Keep reading!
Thanks to
- Shimabukuro Sensei
- Kishimoto Sensei
There's a wall of text written by Shimabukuro in his manga after the interview, so this is not part of the interview, but he does tell about it:
Shimabu Speaks
(A follow-up to the interview with Masashi Kishimoto)
I think this is the first time I've ever been interviewed. The Interview ran in this year's (2013) special spring issue of Jump VS. The topic was "Leaders of Manga." If you've read it, I'm sure you'll pick up on the fact that it was really casual and stress free. It was less like an interview and more like discussing manga with a fellow manga lover over drinks (laugh). It helped that Kishimoto was already an acquaintance of mine, but even so it was remarkably relaxed from start to finish. But I'll say that when the conversation is about manga, we can both get pretty passionate. During our conversation there were a lot of times when I would marvel at how much Kishimoto really thinks about manga. Since I'm originally a creator of gag manga, I've never given proper thought to how to make a story manga. I learned a lot during the interview. I felt like a complete newb! I think I'd like to do it again some time, should I ever have the chance. Best of all, it reminded me how fun it is to talk about manga and how much I love the medium. It was a whole ton of fun. Also, the drinks were good ( though that has nothing to do with manga). Well, see you again soon, same time, same place. This is Shimabu, signing off and thinking daily how small the sticky pads that you can get from gum bottles are! See you again soon!
Overall, I found this to be an entertaining interview to read and a nice treat to us Toriko fans. I learned quite a bit about both Shima & Kishi from this interview. It must of been difficult for him to transition from doing gag manga to a battle/adventure manga like Toriko. Someday, I hope that Shimabukuro and Oda sensei will have an interview together (perhaps when Toriko ends). They're both very good friends and Oda is a fan of Toriko. I never knew Kishi. was a fan of Toriko until I read this interview lol.
I hope you guys enjoyed reading the interview! It is long but a fun read. If any Naruto fans were intrigued about the series Toriko while reading the interview, definitely check out the manga.
