madvictory
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He eats her alive? But Mei even mocked him for being homo since he didn't want to even do that.
Hebi Sasuke vs Mei Terumi
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He eats her alive? But Mei even mocked him for being homo since he didn't want to even do that.
Haizaki
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Realistically this won't be happening..Sasuke can read her intentions and attack her beforehand :
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That's Kabuto with his SM being unable to evade the incoming attack because he didn't anticipate it. Mei won't be doing better.Mind you that Jutsu required one hand seal as well
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so it shouldn't be an issue for Sasuke to prevent it by attacking with his own techniqueThis wouldn't follow up when you look at what I said earlier. Mei would be forced to defend herself instead. Meanwhile Sasuke can entire his CM2 state and take flight.
Quick question, If Mei decides to use her water dragon, can't Sasuke slice it up like this (Bottom Panel)
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which is done by channeling Chider through his sword to extend its range (Top right)
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...The Chidori from his finger alone could could slice up Hachibi's Tentacles. Shouldn't slashes from his sword be enough for the Water Dragon?Mei spreading the Mist is highly unlikely now....Especially when Sasuke on ground can summon this(Not Manda) with quick speed
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and that was durable enough to take this:
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Can Mei really hold it down with ease? Especially with Sasuke there who can summon Manda even when in Mid air
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to join the party. Then he can wait for a time to catch Mei off guard with this
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He has a lot going for him.
Sasuke can go underground with Manda...If anything, she'll have a lot on her hands to actually settle down and use this technique. Plus there's the fact that she can't see while making it thick.
The Mist won't be spreading as much especially when she has close to no time to do this. The snakes can shed their skin and there's no way that's an instant poof for the summon when we've seen that Snake take Deidara's large scale explosion attack and still live after that. Then Manda as well took C0, Bunta's sword in the middle of its head and was still alive afterwards.
Not when they can shed their skin. The Mist isn't going to do anything to Manda before he goes underground. If it does, it would be minor but we have the fact that the chances of it spreading are way too slim with Sasuke attacks. Little damage won't slow Manda or the other snake down but there's doubts about it spreading.
Not only that but Sasuke can throw attacks into the Mist if he glides out
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...Meanhwile Mei can't see in the Mist leaving her vulnerableI already explained why most of this would be unlikely.
There's also Genjutsu which Sasuke can take advantage of if she's distracted by the summons..Could be from a distance like he did to both Cee and Deidara.
I saw where you said Mei would notice Manda moving underground but he can fool her by doing this
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--->
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Using his tail first the attacking from a different position.
Thesaurus
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Hebi Sasuke wins this comfortably.
-Mei has no intel on Sasuke's snakes, who can be used to locate Mei through their acute sense of smell. No intel also means Manda can be quite the threat to Mei given that her abilities won't stop him when he decides to attack from underground.
-Sasuke's capable of dodging any and all of her attacks with his Shunshin and snakes.
-Sasuke does not need to sit around inside her Mist like people are making it seem. Sasuke has evaded a massive explosion with his snakes in this very location [
-Once he's escaped he has a variety of options. He can do a Chidori Senbon barrage from afar (snakes can help him locate her), he could even prepare Kirin with his Katon dragons if she decides not to leave her Mist.
At the end of the day, it really doesn't come down to what Mei does inside of her Mist, but rather what Sasuke does outside of it.
-Mei has no intel on Sasuke's snakes, who can be used to locate Mei through their acute sense of smell. No intel also means Manda can be quite the threat to Mei given that her abilities won't stop him when he decides to attack from underground.
-Sasuke's capable of dodging any and all of her attacks with his Shunshin and snakes.
-Sasuke does not need to sit around inside her Mist like people are making it seem. Sasuke has evaded a massive explosion with his snakes in this very location [
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], getting out of her mist is probably one of the easiest obstacles for Sasuke.-Once he's escaped he has a variety of options. He can do a Chidori Senbon barrage from afar (snakes can help him locate her), he could even prepare Kirin with his Katon dragons if she decides not to leave her Mist.
At the end of the day, it really doesn't come down to what Mei does inside of her Mist, but rather what Sasuke does outside of it.
KingHashirama
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Mei wins. Hebi Sasuke ain't Giving mei a challenge.
Ghost in the Shell
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Being capable of reading Mei's intentions doesn't mean much in the way of being able to counter for multiple reasons. I'll just number my points.
1. Sasuke has no techniques that can successfully counter Mei in time given the fact that her seal and jutsu execution speed is a good deal above Hebi Sasuke's, and the fact that the starting distance is 35 meters. Not only was Mei able to detain Madara's katon, she was also able to swiftly turn it into a Water Dragon and push Madara back [
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]. She was also capable of executing her technique faster than Madara's fall (he was pushed down by someone as fast and strong as Ay, mind you) and douse his landing spot with more lava [
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]. Keep in mind that she already had doused the area with lava and her vision was somewhat blocked by all the
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. 2. It erupts from the ground (stated in the databook), and nigh instantly at that given the fact that Tsunade was 2-3 meters max away from Madara's katon, yet the katon wasn't able to travel that distance before the Pillar fully erupted and extinguished the katon. This is also a decent execution feat as she was able to weave a seal fast enough to remove Tsunade from harm's way despite the katon being extremely close to her.
3. It has a massive AoE.
4. The intel is manga. Hebi Sasuke has no clue about what to expect from Mei (one could argue water style from the Mizukage, but he won't know in what form, or how large, or how it'd be executed, then again he doesn't even know that she's the Mizukage). The Uchiha are known worldwide in the NV, so Mei should know basic stuff about the Uchiha such as the sharingan, genjutsu, and fire style.
Furthermore Itachi's seal speed and jutsu execution speed is a great deal above Hebi Sasuke's. Why should I believe that the latter can counter a technique that's faster and far, far stronger than the water style used by SM Kabuto or Itachi in time before he finds himself getting thrashed within a massive torrent of water? To my knowledge, I think that Mei's elemental ninjutsu speed and seal speed is also above SM Kabuto. In the time span that he's able to use a small waterfall, Mei can use two techniques on much grander scales.
Alternatively, Mei can use her Water Dragon close to Sasuke to make him sidestep it intentionally, then use her Water Pillar to catch him off guard to his side.
How? What techniques does Sasuke have and what jutsu execution feats does Sasuke have that lead me to believe that he can counter Mei before he gets caught? He's not escaping its AoE given the fact that he had some problems avoiding Deidara's C2, and couldn't evade his second C2 bomb at all -
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- and Mei can tag enemies faster with her Water Pillar than Deidara can with C2. I hardly think that he'll be capable of flying out of the Pillar due to the resistance and force of the technique exerting itself all over Sasuke's body and his wings. Though if Sasuke were to take flight, Mei can use her Water Dragon on him which has tremendous range and speed. It was capable of traversing the entire width of Onoki's giant jinton cube right after he opened it, and it only reached Madara in one panel (you can even see him expressing such great surprise) -
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What speed feats does Sasuke have in flight that allow him to outrun it? After he gets caught Mei can use the preexisting water to form her Water Pillar and knock him right into the ground.
Even if Sasuke were to swipe at the Water Dragon with Chidori Spear/Sword, the attack carries so much momentum, force, and speed behind it that it'll continue to push forward and hit Sasuke anyway. Remember that Mei is constantly spitting out water and maintaining the shape of the Water Dragon; Sasuke can't really slice the dragon fast enough to literally cut it into pieces due to fluid resistance slowing down the swing of his arm. Also I think that it'll just turn into electricity upon contact.
Using Water Pillar at the start to toss Sasuke into the air gives Mei more than enough time to spread Acid Mist given her seal speed and jutsu execution feats. Mei was capable of covering a large area using Hidden Mist in just under what, 2-3 pages [
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][
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][
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]? Probably even less since the spot where Madara landed after being blitzed and punched by lightened v2 Ay was already covered in mist. The techniques are identical in the way they're spat out -
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-
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(bottom right panel). Acid Mist tends to diffuse into other areas but that doesn't mean that it won't be effective at all, it'll still inflict burns all over Sasuke's body, incuding his eyes, and it'll do major damage if he inhales it (which he needs to do to fire off a katon). With the force of the Pillar exerting itself all over Sasuke's body, how is he going to be able to summon large snakes let alone Manda? Keep in mind that the water also washes away the blood needed to call a summoning animal. I also don't see how he's forming seals within a large torrent of water.
To control Manda for more than an extended period of time would require Sasuke to use a CM2 enhanced genjutsu. You can see that the genjutsu wore off after a couple of seconds even before Sasuke came out of Manda's mouth [
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]. Mei's not going to allow him to do this. She can either use a narrow Water Pillar to push him back with more concentrated force at one point, or she can use her water dragon to carry him a further distance away. The speed and range of Mei's Water Release can successfully knock back all of Sasuke's snake tactics even before he's able to execute them if timed correctly.Mei can execute techniques faster than Hebi Sasuke can, him having the sharingan doesn't mean that he'll be able to match the range and speed of her ninjutsu with his own. Shedding skin does nothing for a snake if they inhale it, and they'll just be right back into the mist after shedding. As for getting doused with Lava Release, I hardly think that any snake, not even Manda, would be fast enough to shed after getting hit with lava and avoid damage.
Also, the snakes' durability get overrated all the time. Manda didn't take the full brunt of that explosion -
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- and do clay explosive emit heat at over a thousand to a thousand four hundred degrees Fahrenheit constantly? I doubt that C0's ignition temperature comes close to acid lava's. Not to mention that the damage Manda received spread out all over his body -
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- not just one spot. From just a couple seconds of exposure to the explosion max, Manda died and his entire body was burned, badly. Also, how can we be sure that the portion of the explosion that Manda took was near the epicenter where the intensity and ignition temperature of C0 is greater? Mei partially melted Madara's V3 Susano'o arm -http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/588/4/ - and inflicted superficial damage to the torso of the skeleton -
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- after seconds of exposure, something far, far more durable than Manda. Don't forget that Mei's lava is not just regular lava; it's acid lava that carries corrosive properties. Acidic reactions compound in the presence of heat. The databook also states that its shape and quantity is completely up to the user so Mei can adjust the size and shape of her Lava accordingly to her opponents. Covered above.
Mei isn't using Hidden Mist for this battle, she's using Acid Mist which isn't as thick as Hidden Mist. I already showed scans of Mei utilising ninjutsu with her vision obstructed without any problems, so Acid Mist isn't going to cause any problems for her in terms of sight. I also already showed how Mei counters Sasuke's flight.
All of the Gokage fought 5 Susano'o clones and none of them got caught within a genjutsu except for Ay, who was distracted by Tsunade getting knocked down then caught off guard by Madara. They were also closer to the Gokage relative to Hebi Sasuke's distance from Mei as per the OP's thread stipulations. Mei's mid/long range fighting style can keep Sasuke at bay and away from engaging in CQC. Not to mention that Mei isn't as big of a dolt as Ay either when it comes to combat.
Don't see how Sasuke is successfully putting Manda under a genjutsu since Mei can stop him from doing so in the first place. In any case Lava Release is going to severely hurt Manda whether he gets hit on his head or tail, and Mei can get out of his range by using Water Pillar under herself then a Water Dragon to transport her self somewhere else inside like Kisame does with his suiton sharks. Actually, the second Mei realizes that it's a tail Mei can side step Manda's swipe by spitting water at the ground to propel her side ways, then she can douse Manda's face with Lava Release.
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Haizaki
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Ok.
35 Meters is nothing when his speed is more than enough to assist him while attacking at the same time. The Middle panel roughly shows how far Sasuke was from Deidara
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and we have this in a flash
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but there's the fact that Mei is slower and there's the fact that Sasuke could use this to increase his range like I showed before
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. What makes things worse is the fact that Sasuke can read here beforehand like I showed with Itachi/Kabuto.There's also his Chidori current which requires Minimal prep time
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Fast enough to do so before Gyuki's tail could drop despite how close. That's superior to Mei's Jutsu execution. If he can see beforehand, Mei isn't hitting him with that at all. Below I'll show you feats of Sasuke matching Itachi's hand seal.@Bold, She already started using that Technique long before Ay even hit Madara
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so you can't use that to measure her just execution speed.Why Mei would be starting of with a defensive technique is pretty questionable but ok. Sasuke beats her with his own jutsu and ability to ready her. Then there's Sasuke's speed which enables him to bypass that Jutsu in a bad scenario when he's already moving since it comes from underneath. His speed would mean he's already going for Mei.
Ok.
If the intel is Manga it's even worse for Mei since there's 0 evidence regarding Mei's knowledge in regards to his Genjutsu. In terms of knowledge, Chiyo knew more than her in regards to the Genjutsu but her knowledge was weak. Chiyo talks about battling an Uchiha in the past (Middle panel)
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yet she was surprised about Kaakashi saying not to look into his eyes here in the bottom
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and was told it was a vision type Genjutusu
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Let's not go to Mei who only knows he's an Uchiha...That's an instant kill for her when the likes of Kakashi got caught despite his knowledge.
Itachi's hand seal is also far above Mei as well but we have the fact that Sasuke could prevent Itachi from making seals here(Bottom left)
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That alone should speak for itself when you look at the fact that Sasuke had to summon those Shurikens as the SFX says "Poof". Bottom scan emphasizes on his speed. Why should I believe Mei would be a problem? No reason tbh. @Bold What really backs that up. You're wrong about Hebi Sasuke's seal speed being much below Itachi's when he could match his hand speed in this scan {Middle Panel}
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It gets copied. You'd see below.
Except we have the fact that he can use either his Chidori (What slashed B's Tentacles) or He'll use his sword to increase his range. I already talked about Sasuke's speed.
Sasuke escaped Deidara's several times. The scan you're showing was due to the fact that Sasuke stepped on the bomb planted by Tobi which he even still dodged...Not because he didn't evade it (Bottom right)
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Meanwhile in the Middle left of that same scan I just showed, Sasuke evaded the Bomb's AOE in his base. Deidara said "Damn he's fast" , Next scan Deidara confirms in the top right that Sasuke "dodged" it by flying
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..His flight speed is top notch considering Tobi was the one who was setting the bombs below(Like he said in that scan) while Deidara was dropping those from above. Dodging 2 at a time. Boss material.Kakashi already copied Zabuza's water dragon by looking at the hand seals
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which Sasuke confirmed in the middle here
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Sasuke matches her and adds it to his collection.
Above.
Doubt it because if Mei spits out water, there's a limit but I addressed this so I don't think we should argue it
I think I already addressed most of this but being identical in the way they are spat out doesn't mean the execution speed is the same when Mei needed a hand seal for the Acid mist (Bottom)
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..Doean't mean they'll spread out the same way and it shouldn't get the same feat of it's spreading. They work differently from my knowledge.Sasuke can easily fly out of there before damage is done but he'll be recovering
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..No one ever used a Katon to counter the Hidden Mist so your thought about Sasuke using that against the Acid because of what he thinks is wrong bro.Sasuke was already in his ribcage when he faced the Acid mist and Zetsu was there but it didn't finish both instantly...In a bad scenario, he can always Unsummon from the start while or before he leaves the mist or before it completely spreads
That's if the pillar gets him the first place but even so, Mei can't just have the pillar come from anywhere she wants. the distance would mean there's a given time for Sasuke to see it and his speed while summoning is evident against Deidara's bomb and C0. Then we have Itachi's hand seal feat that he displayed and stopped by summoning.
Where did you get the bold from? and it wore off because it's purpose had been served not because the time limit was over. No proof that it faded away because of that though. Plus the fact that Sasuke was heavily weakened against Deidara.
Sasuke was fast enough to summon Manda before C0 could completely explode...Mei has Manga intel like you said so how is she not going to let him do it when she doesn't even know he can summon? or he'll have to use Genjutsu on the summon? There's also there fact that he can summon his other snake which took the Bombs earlier on. He doesn't need Genjutsu.
I spoke about Water Dragon earlier..
I don't think they'll die instantly. When they can go underground? Doubt that. When Mei would be occupied as well with the snakes he can release from his sleeves.
@Bold As long as they take minimal damage before the go underground, then that's what's important...Lava would never kill them instantly like that. They even have the speed to evade while they can. Manda won't be killed that easily before he sheds.
Plus If Sasuke flies out of the Mist due to think it's the Hidden Mist, he can unsummon them out of it before it spreads...It doesn't spread like the hidden mist so it shouldn't get feats of the hidden mist. Zetsu was in that Mist as well...Don't think he melted directly. It doesn't instantly kill you though it's quick. With the timing and intel on the Hidden Mist, they won't want to be caught up in it. Then there's Mei actually not having time for this without being attacked.
There's definitely no talk in regards to the first snake that protected Sasuke from Deidara. Manda? It's still a feat and a feat that enables him to tank Mei techniques and even prevent being completely put down by Mei's lava.
What did Mei use to melt Madara's Susanoo? Plus it's still moving regardless to attack Mei as well.
I don't think Mei can make a Lava as big as Manda...Maybe it was a Hyperbole but ok.
Ok I replied.
Doesn't matter especially when Sasuke put someone as experienced as Orochimaru in a Genjutsu. Plus Madara didn't take them seriously as well. Then there's the fact that it was the real Madara who hit Ay with it while Mei was battling the clones with the other Kages.
Like I said and what you saw, Ay was distracted which led him to make contact...Mei can be distracted by various snakes leading her to be caught off guard.
Then there's the fact that Mei has very little knowledge on Sasuke and how to combat his eyes.
Pretty sure she can't just switch that easily..Though where do you think Sasuke would be? He'll be there around preying for a counter of his own.
Mad Titan Thanos
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Mei takes this mid diff
Ambivalence
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Should have made this match-up an official Dou Debate thread, it seems to be pretty close....
AnonymousShinobi
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Being serious, does Mei even have good reaction feats? I seriously can't remember any.
Ghost in the Shell
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Sorry if the quotes seem out of order but I'm grouping things that I see as similar up and adressing them in conjunction with each other. Also it's better if we just make our strategies clear. Making points that don't resonate with our strategies makes the debate go off tangent and we start discussing variables that originally weren't considered.
Moreover, Sasuke isn't even looking at the ground at the start of the match, he's only seeing a hand seal. By the time he notes the nature of the attack it'll be too late.
Sasuke never matched Itachi's full seal speed, not even close [
Especially since, in the very same time frame Itachi and Sasuke weaved those seals to use katon in that scan you're showing, Mei used two techniques on much, much larger scales about a second apart. I already showed the Water Pillar intercepting Madara's katon before it was about to hit Tsunade. Sasuke doesn't need hand seals to use Chidori Spear because he's skilled enough to execute it without forming them which isn't representative of how quickly he can form hand seals. This might seemingly give him the advantage in terms of execution, but realistically Mei can use her Water Pillar just as fast if not faster than Sasuke used the spead against the Hachibi's tentacles given her feat against Madara all the same, and it eventually comes out to be more impressive since the WP is a large scale technique and Mei actually needed to form a seal to use it. Then we have the fact that she subsequently turned it into another large scale technique a second later. Aditionally, Mei was capable of weaving multiple seals to use her lava globs to block off the entrance before Sasuke could speed out of the Gokage room [
For good measure, Mei's apparition technique is as fast or faster than Mifune's striking speed which Sasuke was able to move to react to [
I already showed what backs my claim up for Mei being faster than SM Kabuto in executing elemental ninjutsu. He used a small waterfall -
Yet Sasuke is going to read Mei and attack her from such a distance before she forms a hand seal and uses her large scale technique? You already agreed that it covers a massive range.
The panels show that she only spat out the lava after Madara was falling down and that more lava covered the area right before he finished falling down on top of the already existing lava. This is a good two in one feat for her execution and the speed of the apparition technique.
Aside from that, Mei already knows about genjutsu. Like I said, the Uchiha clan is known worldwide and the sharingan is known for their genjutsu prowess. Hell, visual genjutsu used by the Uchiha was already discussed at the Gokage conference -
But clearly, Mei was never caught in genjutsu in her fight against Madara, a far superior genjutsu user than Sasuke, so there's a high probability of her knowing how to combat genjutsu. Madara was playing with them the whole time, which is why he wasted his time using low level techniques (for him) like genjutsu, katon, mokuton, and V3 susano'o rather than just going straight for his giant legged V4 susano'o let alone his PS and decimating them. As for catching Orochimaru in the Fushi Tensei, Sasuke managed to reverse the Fushi Tensei somehow but this wasn't even a fight, and Orochimaru foolishly stared into his eyes as he was close to achieving his long time goal of attaining the sharingan. Is this evidence that Mei will do the same? No. Especially since her fighting style counters Sasuke's CQC oriented fighting style and avoiding genjutsu from mid to long range isn't a problem, especially for a Kage who was facing 5 susano'o clones. In before Deidara, who deliberately let himself get caught. As for Kakashi, he intentionally let himself get caught as well -
But of course, Shee and Ay were caught off guard when they were trapped. This doesn't mean that Mei will be caught off guard in a 1v1 against Sasuke, given the strategy I outlined (I'll reetype it below and go into more detail). These snakes aren't doing anything inside of acid mist and against Mei's youton and suiton.
Sasuke has no canon suiton skill nor the element in the manga to be doing something like this. None at all. Kakashi probably had the skill prior to that since he was already renowned as the copy ninja and had already been skilled in elemental ninjutsu for a while (mastered raiton as a teen), but we've never seen this from Sasuke as a kid, nor even in his Hebi days. Itachi copied Kabuto's because the former already showed canon skill in suiton. We have nothing to go by for Sasuke except for the fact that he received the suiton element in the databook which doesn't equate to having any skill with the element, let alone the skill to match someone who is, by feats, the second best Water Release user in the manga. Take into account that the Water Dragon technique needs 44 hand seals, but Mei can use less than that number because she is that skilled in suiton. But Sasuke is suddenly going to bunny hop Zabuza and Kakashi suddenly in suiton skill by using it with two or three seals and at the same scale Mei can use it without a water source (the amount of water used is proportional to the user's skill as said in the databook) without having showed not even a shred of skill in the element beforehand? Not happening.
At first this part of your post confused me but after looking at my post, I noticed that I linked the scan I didn't mean to link. My bad. But yeah, Sasuke wasn't able to avoid Deidara's second C2 bomb [
What is the bolded based on? I'm going to disregard Deidara's statement because Sasuke didn't take note of the landmines underground until they were about to explode and merely tanked the explosion with CM2 [
How would the forming of the hand seals change the way the mists are individually spat out? Mei needs a seal to form Hidden Mist too. They work differently in that one is less thick and carries potent corrosive properties and another one is thicker and is meant to block LoS. This does not suggest anything in the way they are executed, because the scans clearly show -
Well katon disperses mist because mist is just water molecules in the air. I was just pointing that out because someone may bring that up as a counter. However, what you're saying here doesn't add up since just because katon was never used as a counter for Hidden Mist doesn't mean that it isn't, and it is for the reasons I stated. It's like saying that fuuton is not a counter for Hidden Mist either because it was never used, even though it is because fuuton blows the mist away.
I already countered the notion of Sasuke being able to escape the mist and he'll be well out of Mei's range if he manages to do so because Mei can cover as much area with Acid Mist as she can with Hidden Mist.
Obviously because Sasuke was protected by a ribcage susano'o which is a very durable defense compared to other defenses and other durable characters in the manga though it was still getting melted. Zetsu was
Acid Mist isn't as effective outdoors because if difuses into other areas but clearly this doesn't mean that it isn't effective at all since Mei was worried about a small amount of mist spreading to the rest of the Gokage. Not to mention that she can bypass this drawback by expelling as much Boil Release as she does Hidden Mist, which will cover a wide AoE. Sasuke in CM2 isn't even anywhere near as durable as a ribcage susano'o and that was getting melted at a good rate. The mist will inflict burns all over Sasuke's body and his eyes, and he'll have a really bad time if he inhales it (remember that he has no knowledge of the mist). Not to mention that it melts chakra as confirmed in the manga and databook, so it should also impair Sasuke's ability to utilise his Chidori variants. Furthermore it also hinders the smaller snakes that he can summon from his body as they are even less durable than Sasuke and they can't function at all within the mist. Their ability to distinguish and pick up heat signatures will be impaired significantly and if they use scent to smell, well its GG because a dosage of Acid Mist is going to put those snakes down no ifs, ands, or buts about it. As for boss snakes, this applies to them as well but they are more durable so they should have an easier time but like I said, inhaling the mist is extremely deadly.
A genjutsu's potency is proportional to the caster's skill, so Sasuke was only capable of controlling Manda for a couple of seconds, as shown in that scan. 3T genjutsu users don't have to constantly maintain genjutsu on someone, it only takes one glance. The genjutsu doesn't automatically dispel itself, that's never happened. The caster has to dispel the genjutsu but clearly Sasuke didn't because he was inside of Manda's mouth. I doubt that he used the Kai release on Manda either because there's no reasonable assumption to surmise such a thing, we all know how disrespectful and volatile Manda is.
Mei doesn't need intel to stop her opponent from using a technique regardless of what type of technique it is.
Why is the first snake that Sasuke used even a factor? He isn't summoning anything before getting tossed about by Water Pillar. Not to mention that this snake would flail around inside the Water Pillar anyway given the force of the current and torrent exerting itself on something far, far smaller comparatively speaking.
Snakes can't shed as quickly as it takes the lava to reach them from a distance, and by the time they've reached the snakes, it's game over for them completely. The quickest feat we have of a snake shedding is Manda evading Jiraiya's large scale katon which isn't a fast technique to begin with, compared to Lava Release which has impressive speed feats. It just has a very large AoE, and Manda was capable of anticipating it before hand. Don't see how he anticipates Mei's Lava Release before he gets hit if it every comes to that point and if he lunges at Mei, it's even worse for him since Mei can sidestep him and douse him with Lava Release since it's going to be nigh impossible for him to stop his momentum and shed before he sustains damage. Mei already uses Water Release on a very large scale and is very skilled in elemental ninjutsu. Mei can spread Lava Release all around the area within her vicinity to close off the routes snakes and Sasuke have towards Mei, above or under ground.
Sasuke isn't even taking flight for long to begin with. Acid Mist can cover a large range so unsummoning and summoning them into a different area accomplishes nothing but wasted chakra.
Manda never took the full brunt of C0 at all -
From a few seconds of exposure, he was burned badly all over his body and died. C0 doesn't emit heat nearly as hot as Mei's Lava Release which is made even more potent coupled by its acidic properties. Manda is absolutely nowhere near as durable as V3 Susano'os, nowehere near, which Mei was capable dealing damage to using her Lava Release after just a few seconds of exposure (likely that it was Lava Release used against the V3 Susano'o arm since she wouldn't risk using Boil Release in the presence of the other Kages). Add it up. Not to mention that Lava Release is more potent than Boil Release due to the former being much hotter, and being denser. The snakes will be trapped inside of the mist while facing the threat of acid lava, btw. Weaker snake summons are even worse off since Manda is far above above fodder snakes in all aspects.
Okay let me make my strategy clear.
Mei starts off the match by using her large AoE Water Pillar on Sasuke to prevent him from doing anything at the start of the match, and this gives her enough time to use Boil Release: Skilled Mist and expel it all over the area. By the time the water from the WP dissipates, the mist will have already covered a large area and would have already reached Sasuke given Mei's execution speed, how quickly she can cover an area with mist, and how large the WP is. If Sasuke uses katon to get rid of the mist, he'll end up inhaling the mist which disrupts his action and now he's taken major damage. If he doesn't do this well he'll be taking damage anyway and he doesn't know to stop breathing inside of the mist so he'll most likely inhale it anyway. I can see him trying to use summonings to counter the mist and set up a strategy, but Mei has shown above average mobility and her execution speed is a given, so she can intercept Sasuke can continually knock him down with the speed and strength of her Water Dragon and Water Pillar (which she can spit out or erupt from underground). Flight is countered the very same way I stated. Mei can close off the routes Sasuke and his snakes have towards her with Lava Release which can be used as a defense in the form of acid lava walls or acid lava pools, backed by the databook. Boil Release hinders Sasuke's ability in all aspects and can melt his Chidori variants. Eventually Sasuke loses too much breath trying to avoid breathing or foolishly breathes and succumbs to the acid mist like Mei succumbed to the pollen from Kajukai Korin. Snakes get melted by Lava Release and as I explained above, Manda isn't going to escape being hit. Lava Release is a one shot for Sasuke whether he's in CM2 form or not.
Side points:
- Sasuke can't maintain CM2 for too long.
- Sasuke can't summon or use techniques that require seals, or summonings whilst being thrashed by Mei's large scale Water Release.
- Sasuke needs to put Manda under genjutsu to control him and Mei can prevent him doing this by knocking him away from Manda's face or just completely prevent him from using Kuchiyose at all.
I only see Sasuke having a chance if he's able to summon Manda and attack in conjunction with him but it's not like Mei is going to gawk at Sasuke while he puts Manda under a genjutsu. She can set a trap by dousing the ground beneath and in front of her with lava, prehaps even create a wall of acid, then propel herself out of there with her Water Release while Manda is lunging at full speed to get out of Sasuke's range. The former won't be able to detain his momentum and end up killing himself by lunging into the lava. Keep in mind that he's completely mindless while under genjutsu too. But then again this is banking on the fact that Sasuke is successful in putting Manda under genjutsu.
Edit: Sorry for the massive wallie but I enjoy debating with Mei so I might get carried away sometimes.
Also I ain't taking no L's with Goddess Mizukage AKA Swag Queen Mei. Did you see her during the Gokage conference? Man she turned it up!!! She was wayyyy too turnt for those clowns. If Black Zetsu hadn't ****ed around she woulda smelted Sasuke into a flesh paste lmao smh. Where my boys Ice and beans at?!
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is not as far of a distance as thirty five meters. We already know that, to use shunshin, one has to build up chakra under their feet -
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- to enhance their movements. The further the distance, the more chakra a shinobi has to build up under their feet to cover said distance quickly. Like any other shinobi has with a shunshin blitz, Sasuke was building up chakra beforehand in preparation to get to Deidara. Mei needs one hand seal to use her Water Pillar, which isn't just a defensive technique, and it forms a massive wall of water in front of Sasuke very quickly which cuts off any direct entry or pathway -
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- to her for a speed blitz. Moreover, she can weave a hand seal and use her technique faster than Sasuke can build up enough chakra to traverse such a large distance given her feat against Madara. The katon was literally about to hit Tsunade -
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- and it didn't reach that distance before Mei used a hand seal and her technique. The Water Pillar is formed underground which means that Mei can control the flow of water underground and send it through the ground at Sasuke's position, and it also covers such a massive range height, width, and length wise that Mei doesn't even need to use it right in front of Sasuke to trap him. Its speed is also impressive as you can see in the scan.Moreover, Sasuke isn't even looking at the ground at the start of the match, he's only seeing a hand seal. By the time he notes the nature of the attack it'll be too late.
Sasuke never matched Itachi's full seal speed, not even close [
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] (bottom panel close to the water wall)-[
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]-[
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]. Those aren't even noteworthy feats especially since Itachi was never going at him with the intent to kill and for this reason that shuriken feat isn't noteworthy in this match either; Itachi even formed multiple hand seals in that scan [
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] but Sasuke was only quick enough to intercept him after he formed multiple hand seals, not one, and from close range. How is Sasuke doing something fast enough to intercept Mei from a much further distance before she forms a large scale technique that Sasuke doesn't know of? Something that he can't avoid safely? Especially since, in the very same time frame Itachi and Sasuke weaved those seals to use katon in that scan you're showing, Mei used two techniques on much, much larger scales about a second apart. I already showed the Water Pillar intercepting Madara's katon before it was about to hit Tsunade. Sasuke doesn't need hand seals to use Chidori Spear because he's skilled enough to execute it without forming them which isn't representative of how quickly he can form hand seals. This might seemingly give him the advantage in terms of execution, but realistically Mei can use her Water Pillar just as fast if not faster than Sasuke used the spead against the Hachibi's tentacles given her feat against Madara all the same, and it eventually comes out to be more impressive since the WP is a large scale technique and Mei actually needed to form a seal to use it. Then we have the fact that she subsequently turned it into another large scale technique a second later. Aditionally, Mei was capable of weaving multiple seals to use her lava globs to block off the entrance before Sasuke could speed out of the Gokage room [
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]-[
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]. That shows the speed of her lava and execution because even while tired Sasuke is still much faster than the average shinobi and he chose to sidestep it instead. Note that Mei uses multiple hand seals for her Youton. Later on Sasuke opted to manifest a ribcage instead of dodging the lava apparition technique which is faster than the lava globs by feats and Mei's Water Release is even faster than that and has more range. For good measure, Mei's apparition technique is as fast or faster than Mifune's striking speed which Sasuke was able to move to react to [
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]-[
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] whereas he needed to manifest a ribcage to block the apparition technique -
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- instead of dodging it. Sasuke definitely would have been better off using his own mobility to dodge it to conserve chakra for his fight against Danzo who he was chasing, and so as you're harping on, his reading abilities enhanced by the MS should have made him more than capable of knowing whether or not he can dodge the technique or not. My point is further backed up by this scan -
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- the lava nearly reached Madara is just one panel and Madara was able to dodge because he is one of the fastest base characters in the manga, far faster than Sasuke. And again, Mei's Water Release is even faster than her Lava Release by feats. And before you mention it like everybody else does -
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- clearly Mei never aimed for Karin and she reacted to an attack that was already there, yet people use that as (extremely faulty) evidence for Mei's lava being slow. I already showed what backs my claim up for Mei being faster than SM Kabuto in executing elemental ninjutsu. He used a small waterfall -
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- where as Mei used two large scale techniques a second apart in the same time span. If we want to get technical, you can see that Kabuto ended up needing to form more than one hand seal to use the water dragon -
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-
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Yet Sasuke is going to read Mei and attack her from such a distance before she forms a hand seal and uses her large scale technique? You already agreed that it covers a massive range.
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The panels show that she only spat out the lava after Madara was falling down and that more lava covered the area right before he finished falling down on top of the already existing lava. This is a good two in one feat for her execution and the speed of the apparition technique.
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- Knocking Mei out with genjutsu here would have been perfect as he wouldn't have had to exert much effort into fighting another kage. Yet he didn't... Wonder why.Aside from that, Mei already knows about genjutsu. Like I said, the Uchiha clan is known worldwide and the sharingan is known for their genjutsu prowess. Hell, visual genjutsu used by the Uchiha was already discussed at the Gokage conference -
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- and Mei even stated that KA could be similar to the genjutsu that was controlling the Fourth Mizukage [
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]. She even already knows who Sasuke is -
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- from the time that he fought Zabuza and Haku as a child. She's going to be very aware of Sasuke's genjutsu abilities like anybody else when fighting with an Uchiha. The problem comes in how to fight it, like Chiyo was alluding to in those scans of yours. But clearly, Mei was never caught in genjutsu in her fight against Madara, a far superior genjutsu user than Sasuke, so there's a high probability of her knowing how to combat genjutsu. Madara was playing with them the whole time, which is why he wasted his time using low level techniques (for him) like genjutsu, katon, mokuton, and V3 susano'o rather than just going straight for his giant legged V4 susano'o let alone his PS and decimating them. As for catching Orochimaru in the Fushi Tensei, Sasuke managed to reverse the Fushi Tensei somehow but this wasn't even a fight, and Orochimaru foolishly stared into his eyes as he was close to achieving his long time goal of attaining the sharingan. Is this evidence that Mei will do the same? No. Especially since her fighting style counters Sasuke's CQC oriented fighting style and avoiding genjutsu from mid to long range isn't a problem, especially for a Kage who was facing 5 susano'o clones. In before Deidara, who deliberately let himself get caught. As for Kakashi, he intentionally let himself get caught as well -
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- to give Naruto an opening. I thought that the manga made it very clear that sharingan users can counter 3T sharingan genjutsu easily. Especially given Kakashi's feat against Obito, doesn't matter if he only has one sharingan. But of course, Shee and Ay were caught off guard when they were trapped. This doesn't mean that Mei will be caught off guard in a 1v1 against Sasuke, given the strategy I outlined (I'll reetype it below and go into more detail). These snakes aren't doing anything inside of acid mist and against Mei's youton and suiton.
Sasuke has no canon suiton skill nor the element in the manga to be doing something like this. None at all. Kakashi probably had the skill prior to that since he was already renowned as the copy ninja and had already been skilled in elemental ninjutsu for a while (mastered raiton as a teen), but we've never seen this from Sasuke as a kid, nor even in his Hebi days. Itachi copied Kabuto's because the former already showed canon skill in suiton. We have nothing to go by for Sasuke except for the fact that he received the suiton element in the databook which doesn't equate to having any skill with the element, let alone the skill to match someone who is, by feats, the second best Water Release user in the manga. Take into account that the Water Dragon technique needs 44 hand seals, but Mei can use less than that number because she is that skilled in suiton. But Sasuke is suddenly going to bunny hop Zabuza and Kakashi suddenly in suiton skill by using it with two or three seals and at the same scale Mei can use it without a water source (the amount of water used is proportional to the user's skill as said in the databook) without having showed not even a shred of skill in the element beforehand? Not happening.
At first this part of your post confused me but after looking at my post, I noticed that I linked the scan I didn't mean to link. My bad. But yeah, Sasuke wasn't able to avoid Deidara's second C2 bomb [
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] even in CM2 form, which did have a larger AoE, but he barely dodged Deidara's first C2 bomb as you can see him coming out of the smoke near the explosion's range. As I said, Mei can tag her enemies much faster than Deidara can with her Water Pillar by feats. Not to mention that C2 was executed right in front of Sasuke's face and he had the precog to know where it was coming from, yet he barely dodged the first, and couldn't dodge the second even in CM2. Conversely, he didn't see the land mines underground because he wasn't even looking there and was more focused on fighting Deidara. Mei's Water Pillar erupts very quickly from the ground but you're saying that Sasuke will somehow take note of this and avoid it despite its speed, AoE, and the fact that Mei only needs a hand seal to form it. It doesn't add up. Not to mention that Mei's WP can erupt from the ground quicker than the land mines can explode. What is the bolded based on? I'm going to disregard Deidara's statement because Sasuke didn't take note of the landmines underground until they were about to explode and merely tanked the explosion with CM2 [
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]-[
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]. The viz might say something different. Actually, he was paying attention more at Sasuke's wings [
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], so that statement was an error given what happened on the scans. Still not seeing any substantial speed fights regarding his flight. How would the forming of the hand seals change the way the mists are individually spat out? Mei needs a seal to form Hidden Mist too. They work differently in that one is less thick and carries potent corrosive properties and another one is thicker and is meant to block LoS. This does not suggest anything in the way they are executed, because the scans clearly show -
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-
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- that they're spat out in the same way and at the same rate, and how Mei expels the mist from her body is actually what matters. Logically, since Acid Mist is less thick it should travel faster than Hidden Mist due to lesser air resistance being enacted on the Acid Mist. In any case, acid mist covered the room Mei and Sasuke were in instantly despite the fact that she used a small amount of Acid Mist. Well katon disperses mist because mist is just water molecules in the air. I was just pointing that out because someone may bring that up as a counter. However, what you're saying here doesn't add up since just because katon was never used as a counter for Hidden Mist doesn't mean that it isn't, and it is for the reasons I stated. It's like saying that fuuton is not a counter for Hidden Mist either because it was never used, even though it is because fuuton blows the mist away.
I already countered the notion of Sasuke being able to escape the mist and he'll be well out of Mei's range if he manages to do so because Mei can cover as much area with Acid Mist as she can with Hidden Mist.
Obviously because Sasuke was protected by a ribcage susano'o which is a very durable defense compared to other defenses and other durable characters in the manga though it was still getting melted. Zetsu was
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and he survived because he's powered by Hashirama's cells and doesn't need to breathe to live so he never inhaled the mist. If Sasuke wasn't using ribcage, he would have gotten melted even worse than Zetsu because he would have ended up inhaling the mist or it would have entered his body through his ear canal and nasal cavity. Acid Mist isn't as effective outdoors because if difuses into other areas but clearly this doesn't mean that it isn't effective at all since Mei was worried about a small amount of mist spreading to the rest of the Gokage. Not to mention that she can bypass this drawback by expelling as much Boil Release as she does Hidden Mist, which will cover a wide AoE. Sasuke in CM2 isn't even anywhere near as durable as a ribcage susano'o and that was getting melted at a good rate. The mist will inflict burns all over Sasuke's body and his eyes, and he'll have a really bad time if he inhales it (remember that he has no knowledge of the mist). Not to mention that it melts chakra as confirmed in the manga and databook, so it should also impair Sasuke's ability to utilise his Chidori variants. Furthermore it also hinders the smaller snakes that he can summon from his body as they are even less durable than Sasuke and they can't function at all within the mist. Their ability to distinguish and pick up heat signatures will be impaired significantly and if they use scent to smell, well its GG because a dosage of Acid Mist is going to put those snakes down no ifs, ands, or buts about it. As for boss snakes, this applies to them as well but they are more durable so they should have an easier time but like I said, inhaling the mist is extremely deadly.
A genjutsu's potency is proportional to the caster's skill, so Sasuke was only capable of controlling Manda for a couple of seconds, as shown in that scan. 3T genjutsu users don't have to constantly maintain genjutsu on someone, it only takes one glance. The genjutsu doesn't automatically dispel itself, that's never happened. The caster has to dispel the genjutsu but clearly Sasuke didn't because he was inside of Manda's mouth. I doubt that he used the Kai release on Manda either because there's no reasonable assumption to surmise such a thing, we all know how disrespectful and volatile Manda is.
Mei doesn't need intel to stop her opponent from using a technique regardless of what type of technique it is.
Why is the first snake that Sasuke used even a factor? He isn't summoning anything before getting tossed about by Water Pillar. Not to mention that this snake would flail around inside the Water Pillar anyway given the force of the current and torrent exerting itself on something far, far smaller comparatively speaking.
Snakes can't shed as quickly as it takes the lava to reach them from a distance, and by the time they've reached the snakes, it's game over for them completely. The quickest feat we have of a snake shedding is Manda evading Jiraiya's large scale katon which isn't a fast technique to begin with, compared to Lava Release which has impressive speed feats. It just has a very large AoE, and Manda was capable of anticipating it before hand. Don't see how he anticipates Mei's Lava Release before he gets hit if it every comes to that point and if he lunges at Mei, it's even worse for him since Mei can sidestep him and douse him with Lava Release since it's going to be nigh impossible for him to stop his momentum and shed before he sustains damage. Mei already uses Water Release on a very large scale and is very skilled in elemental ninjutsu. Mei can spread Lava Release all around the area within her vicinity to close off the routes snakes and Sasuke have towards Mei, above or under ground.
Sasuke isn't even taking flight for long to begin with. Acid Mist can cover a large range so unsummoning and summoning them into a different area accomplishes nothing but wasted chakra.
Manda never took the full brunt of C0 at all -
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From a few seconds of exposure, he was burned badly all over his body and died. C0 doesn't emit heat nearly as hot as Mei's Lava Release which is made even more potent coupled by its acidic properties. Manda is absolutely nowhere near as durable as V3 Susano'os, nowehere near, which Mei was capable dealing damage to using her Lava Release after just a few seconds of exposure (likely that it was Lava Release used against the V3 Susano'o arm since she wouldn't risk using Boil Release in the presence of the other Kages). Add it up. Not to mention that Lava Release is more potent than Boil Release due to the former being much hotter, and being denser. The snakes will be trapped inside of the mist while facing the threat of acid lava, btw. Weaker snake summons are even worse off since Manda is far above above fodder snakes in all aspects.
Okay let me make my strategy clear.
Mei starts off the match by using her large AoE Water Pillar on Sasuke to prevent him from doing anything at the start of the match, and this gives her enough time to use Boil Release: Skilled Mist and expel it all over the area. By the time the water from the WP dissipates, the mist will have already covered a large area and would have already reached Sasuke given Mei's execution speed, how quickly she can cover an area with mist, and how large the WP is. If Sasuke uses katon to get rid of the mist, he'll end up inhaling the mist which disrupts his action and now he's taken major damage. If he doesn't do this well he'll be taking damage anyway and he doesn't know to stop breathing inside of the mist so he'll most likely inhale it anyway. I can see him trying to use summonings to counter the mist and set up a strategy, but Mei has shown above average mobility and her execution speed is a given, so she can intercept Sasuke can continually knock him down with the speed and strength of her Water Dragon and Water Pillar (which she can spit out or erupt from underground). Flight is countered the very same way I stated. Mei can close off the routes Sasuke and his snakes have towards her with Lava Release which can be used as a defense in the form of acid lava walls or acid lava pools, backed by the databook. Boil Release hinders Sasuke's ability in all aspects and can melt his Chidori variants. Eventually Sasuke loses too much breath trying to avoid breathing or foolishly breathes and succumbs to the acid mist like Mei succumbed to the pollen from Kajukai Korin. Snakes get melted by Lava Release and as I explained above, Manda isn't going to escape being hit. Lava Release is a one shot for Sasuke whether he's in CM2 form or not.
Side points:
- Sasuke can't maintain CM2 for too long.
- Sasuke can't summon or use techniques that require seals, or summonings whilst being thrashed by Mei's large scale Water Release.
- Sasuke needs to put Manda under genjutsu to control him and Mei can prevent him doing this by knocking him away from Manda's face or just completely prevent him from using Kuchiyose at all.
I only see Sasuke having a chance if he's able to summon Manda and attack in conjunction with him but it's not like Mei is going to gawk at Sasuke while he puts Manda under a genjutsu. She can set a trap by dousing the ground beneath and in front of her with lava, prehaps even create a wall of acid, then propel herself out of there with her Water Release while Manda is lunging at full speed to get out of Sasuke's range. The former won't be able to detain his momentum and end up killing himself by lunging into the lava. Keep in mind that he's completely mindless while under genjutsu too. But then again this is banking on the fact that Sasuke is successful in putting Manda under genjutsu.
Edit: Sorry for the massive wallie but I enjoy debating with Mei so I might get carried away sometimes.
Also I ain't taking no L's with Goddess Mizukage AKA Swag Queen Mei. Did you see her during the Gokage conference? Man she turned it up!!! She was wayyyy too turnt for those clowns. If Black Zetsu hadn't ****ed around she woulda smelted Sasuke into a flesh paste lmao smh. Where my boys Ice and beans at?!
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Haizaki
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Read half of this and note I'm only responding to the relevant things as this is unnecessarily long. Is this an official debate or something? Most of this don't matter at all. Most of this is completely denying clear feats due to not wanting to concede from what I read.
Ghost in the Shell
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Sorry for the length, my bad. But this isn't denial at all. You've presented feats that don't even refute my points or strategies to begin with.
The one thing you're harping on is the sharingan reading her intentions then Sasuke somehow speed blitzing her from thirty five meters before she can even form a hand seal to use a technique. Mei will somehow find herself on the defensive from the beginning because Sasuke will speed blitz her with snakes and chidori spear from thirty five meters before she can weave just one seal and form a massive wall of water between the two.
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Haizaki
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^^Enough with this nonsense..You're evidently not reading properly but whatever..You said it yourself you're not willing to lose with Mei as if it's official so this might just be a case of flogging a dead horse since your definition of blitzing from 35M is horrific. Look at the scans and added range of attacks I showed then you can go around talking about me hanging on a blitz from 35M. Then there's the fact that you outright said you're going to disregard Deidara's statement(Manga evidence).
I'm not harping on anything...Read the Manga and my strategy makes perfect sense especially when I've shown scenarios of it happening. Don't agree with it? Don't engage me as it's all pointless.
I'm not harping on anything...Read the Manga and my strategy makes perfect sense especially when I've shown scenarios of it happening. Don't agree with it? Don't engage me as it's all pointless.
TheAncientCenturion
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Could go either way, honestly. As Cliche sounding as it is, I'd believe Manda's cooperation makes or breaks the match.
Ghost in the Shell
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I addressed the point of Deidara's statement. His statement means jack if what he thinks happened doesn't resonate with what happened in the scans.
>Lands on the mine.
>mine explodes.
>You can see him on the ground in CM2 with no signs of having taken off.
This is what we saw in the scans, yet whatever Deidara says somehow changes that even though he couldn't even see through the smoke to know what happened. You can't always interpret the manga literally.
The funny thing is that if this flight speed feat were to hold validity, it wouldn't even compare to the speed feat showed by Mei's Water Dragon when it traversed through the entire giant jinton cube in just a panel and had Madara more surprised than any other time we had seen him during that fight.
And if we can't look past what is a simple, unimportant joke, then the discussion is getting way too serious.
There's no reason to debate if we don't find common ground then, that simple. The only thing I can tell you is that I don't deny things. I have no qualms about being proven wrong.
>Lands on the mine.
>mine explodes.
>You can see him on the ground in CM2 with no signs of having taken off.
This is what we saw in the scans, yet whatever Deidara says somehow changes that even though he couldn't even see through the smoke to know what happened. You can't always interpret the manga literally.
The funny thing is that if this flight speed feat were to hold validity, it wouldn't even compare to the speed feat showed by Mei's Water Dragon when it traversed through the entire giant jinton cube in just a panel and had Madara more surprised than any other time we had seen him during that fight.
And if we can't look past what is a simple, unimportant joke, then the discussion is getting way too serious.
There's no reason to debate if we don't find common ground then, that simple. The only thing I can tell you is that I don't deny things. I have no qualms about being proven wrong.
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RedRobin
Kage in the Making 👑
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I agree I think Sasuke needs Manda's help here and I dont think Mei has anyway of taking down the giant snake.
RedRobin
Kage in the Making 👑
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Not sure but you can only post 115 images.