All Gudou Dama's are the same. Kaguya's one was just massive in size. Jutsus name would be different, Black Zetsu classified Kaguya's jutsu as Gudou Dama not Hotshit Gudou Dama Kaguya Edition or anything. Its the same jutsu with larger scale.
Also Rikudo Senjutsu mod grants users the ability to use all bloodlines and combine elements as they see fit.
Madara proved it with this.
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He was able to use Storm release. I don't remember Madara implanting Darui's grandpas DNA on him back in the day. Do you ? If not then only logical explanation is that Madara gained such ability after he gained Rikudo Senjutsu. Which Naruto and Ashura had. Mokuton is no different than Storm release. One is Water+Earth, other is Water+lightning.
All Gudou Dama's are the same. Kaguya's one was just massive in size. Jutsus name would be different, Black Zetsu classified Kaguya's jutsu as Gudou Dama not Hotshit Gudou Dama Kaguya Edition or anything. Its the same jutsu with larger scale.
Also Rikudo Senjutsu mod grants users the ability to use all bloodlines and combine elements as they see fit.
Madara proved it with this.
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He was able to use Storm release. I don't remember Madara implanting Darui's grandpas DNA on him back in the day. Do you ? If not then only logical explanation is that Madara gained such ability after he gained Rikudo Senjutsu. Which Naruto and Ashura had. Mokuton is no different than Storm release. One is Water+Earth, other is Water+lightning.
I posted the wrong scan. The one I posted is Yin Release not Storm Release. Sasuke is not using Storm release he is using Yin release.
This one what i meant.
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Madara gained Storm release after he obtained RM. That shows he gained access to bloodlines through RM. Naruto has RM as well as Ashura. So they have access to all bloodlines as well. Meaning they are able to use Mokuton.
I posted the wrong scan. The one I posted is Yin Release not Storm Release. Sasuke is not using Storm release he is using Yin release.
This one what i meant.
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Madara gained Storm release after he obtained RM. That shows he gained access to bloodlines through RM. Naruto has RM as well as Ashura. So they have access to all bloodlines as well. Meaning they are able to use Mokuton.
You mean after he became the Jinchuriki of the Juubi....
What Madara has is far beyond what Naruto has...
And also, Madara has acess to bloodlines in elements due to beingt he jinchuriki of the juubi (source of bloodlines).. Naruto is not in the same category...
You mean after he became the Jinchuriki of the Juubi....
What Madara has is far beyond what Naruto has...
And also, Madara has acess to bloodlines in elements due to beingt he jinchuriki of the juubi (source of bloodlines).. Naruto is not in the same category...
Madara clearly stated that Naruto has RM and Sasuke has Rinnegan but he has them both at the same time. How do you interpret that ?
It's clear that Naruto has the body part while Sasuke has the eye part. All bloodlines came from the Body Part. Naruto showed us some examples as well. Thanks to the bijuus he was able to use many bloodlines. So that means bloodlines are in the domain of Yang Part which Ashura and his reincarnations inherited. Conclusion = Ashura has access to Mokuton and other Bloodlines.
Understanding of your argument, and how you come off to me:
From your context or your point of view. Senju and uchiha descendents don't have the same chakra as Ashura and Indra, because their chakra transmigrates.... But you state that both of them have Rikudou's chakra, similar to how Naruto and Sasuke have his chakra.
Exactly. Inheriting chakra from your father is not the same as descendants from decades later having the same chakra as you. Makes no sense. Every Uchiha has different chakra. Hashirama and Tobirama have different chakras.
My point on this:
However that in itself makes 0 sense. How can you say their chakra is the same as Rikudou's despite Rikudou living through chakra on his own, while his sons are also going on.
Them all having separate chakras doesn't change the type of chakra. Which is Hagoromo's type of chakra. Their chakra aren't the same right down to the letter, that's why Asura, Indra and Hagoromo's chakra are different.
Obito got Rikudo's Chakra, Kakashi did as well, yet they retained their own chakra signatures.
(though you may provide a counter that they can have sperate chakras but still rikudou can have both. But that logic can be kind of applied to the Senju/Uchiha descendents, due t
Read above for the explanation. His sons having similar chakra to him doesn't equate to his descendants decades later having the same chakra as him. Itachi and Sasuke's chakras are not the same. Hashirama and Tobirama's chakras are not the same. Indra and Asura and Hagoromo's chakras are not the same, nor did I say they were the same. They got his chakra, but the signature is not the same.
Furthermore, the Sage mentions of chakra of Ashura's body, not "he unlocked my powers". :
Except he already stated that Indra inherited his strong chakra genes, which means Asura also inherited something too. What they got isn't literally Rikudo's Power, so this doesn't prove your point.
So to claim it is the same, and to say it is not the same for others.. does not make any sense. We know all individuals have their own "unique chakra". However that chakra was still came from the juubi, in essence they do have the same chakra as Ashura and Indra. Hence the Senju possess high amounts of chakra, and the Uchiha are able to unlock the Sharingan.
Its the same for no one. Its only similar. All chakra came from the Shinju, but the chakra probably adapts the person receiving it. That's why Asura and Indra have Rikudo Chakra, but their chakra isn't the exact same as their father's. Just how all the descendants of Indra and Asura don't have the same chakra as them, which is false for obvious reasons.
Unless you want to assert that Hashirama and some random Senju Clan Member have the same exact chakra.
Ashura's/Indra's/Rikudou's Powers:
Your argument and how i am understanding it from you:
Sasuke and Naruto attained their powers of Ashura and Indra from getting this "yin and yang" chakra from the rikudou. And thus Ashura and Indra's abilities are from rikudou's chakra.
They didn't get Indra and Asura's abilities. They only got Hagoromo's Yin and Yang Chakra, which let them unlock abilities similar to Hagoromo's. Naruto got Rikudo Senjutsu due to having his chakra and the 9 Bijuu. Sasuke's left Sharingan turned into a Rinnegan due to having the Sharingan in the first place and Rikudo's Chakra.
Indra and Asura's abilities aren't from their Rikudo Chakra, their Rikudo Chakra just makes their abilities much stronger than the standard. Indra's Susanoo is better than the standard due to having stronger chakra powering it.
My point:
Ashura's chakra ability = Gojuu dama and the 9-tails looking Chakra avatar. That is special to Ashura alone. Nor can you or anyone else say Rikudou possesses that.. he does not.
Indra's chakra ability = The PS Sasuke has and the PS Indra had. That is an ability special to Indra alone, not Rikudou. Rikudou does not possess a Perfect Susanoo (unless you are willing to provide scans where its stated or shown or hell hinted at.)
I never said this either. I only said that they have Rikudo's Chakra, which powers their abilities, not that the chakra is the reason they have those abilities. Indra has his abilities from the Sharingan which comes from his grandmother Kaguya, as she had the Sharingan's powers and not Hagoromo.
Rikudou's chakra ability = Senjutsu of rikudou (chakra of the juubi itself which is made entirely of nature chakra), and Rinnegan.
And thus the Ashura and Indra's powers are/belong to Rikudou himself. Because Obito gained the Gojubombs from getting the Juubi's chakra , which madara referred to as "sage mode".
No. I never said that Indra's and Asura's powers belong to Hagoromo. I said that they have his chakra, but not in the literal sense like Naruto and Sasuke do. They inherited it, as he stated, and as Indra's Susanoo shows. Obito having the Gudo Dama is proof that you need Rikudo Chakra to be able to use them. Thus Asura also had Rikudo Chakra.
My point:
- What Naruto and Sasuke did was unlock Ashura (Chakra avatar Naruto right now has) and Indra's chakra (The PS Sasuke has). Because they were the first ones to realize out of the all incarnations through rikudou of course.. that they possess their power.
Wrong. Naruto's Avatar is not the same as Asura's and Sasuke's Susanoo is not the same as Indra's. Nor did manga ever imply that their power came from unlocking their previous incarnates chakra. The manga only shows and stated that they got their abilities from Hagoromo's Chakra.
- You seem to think on this topic as that they are rikudou's abilities given to them through him giving them the chakra.. no. THEY ALREADY POSSESSED ASHURA AND INDRA'S CHAKRAS...
Everything they showed was from Rikudo's Chakra. Everything they gained was stated to be because of Rikudo's Blessing. Not from awakening Indra and Asura's chakra. Makes no sense, especially when they don't even have the same abilities.
Thus when they got the senjutsu from rikudou and Rikudou's rinnegan.. it only powered up ashura's and Indra's chakras they already had inside of them.. SO no... Sasuke's new PS is not from Rikudou, it is powered by rikudou's and Indra's chakra however.
Sasuke's new PS is a result of gaining Rikudo's Chakra, which powered it up and changed its form.
- As for Obito, Obito was the Juubi's jinchuriki and automatically being in "Sage mode". Something i have stated long time ago, that Juubi's jin doesn't need a sage mode, he/she is already made/filled with Nature chakra (shown when naruto tried to sense the juubi's chakra). And thus he had already establish a connection with the juubi's chakra... (its like learning a new jutsu for the first time.. and then being able to do it faster the next time.. )
He WAS the Juubi Jin. Keyword "Was." Past Tense. He didn't have the Juubi so none of this even begins to make sense. Your example doesn't make sense either. What connection? There is nothing to connect to. He lost the Juubi's power completely and a whole different person got it. You can say that because had the chakra before, he was able to absorb it from Madara, but you can't say that he could make a Gudo Dama on his own w/o Madara, just because he was the Juubi Jin. Even then, if you said that, you'd have to admit that he had some leftover Juubi power in his body, which is still Rikudo Chakra, which means he still formed the Gudo Dama w/ Rikudo Chakra.
CHAKRA DIFFERENCES:
Your point:
All of Rikudou's chakra is the same. Only difference is that its divided into yin and yang. And you also believe that Sharingan's unlocking has nothing to do with the Rinnegan unlocking.
-Right on the Sharingan and Rinnegan part. There is zero evidence for the special chakra in the brain being related to Rinnegan's awakening.
-All of Rikudo's chakra is not the same. Kaguya passed her chakra to Hagoromo, who passed his chakra to Naruto and Sasuke. Obito, Kakashi and Madara gained rikudo's chakra from obtaining the Juubi/Taking it from Madara, yet all of these people each have different chakra signatures. Same goes for Asura, Indra, Hagoromo and their descendants.
My point:
- Sharingan's unlocking gives us inner depth on how Sharingan related eyes are unlocked. A special chakra is opened from their brains and changes the image of their eye and unlocking more abilities. How is rinnegan not the same way? When Ashura and Indra's chakra mix, they create a mix of chakra and unlocking a newer special chakra in their brain.. and thus turning it into the rinnegan. ( Flaw in your argument is that, you are one of those people at the moment.. that would say "oh sharingan is made when an uchiha just starts getting more hatred. Rikudou didn't go indepth into the matter like Tobirama did. Who told us how the new eyes are unlocked. )
Because nothing implies this. Rinnegan and Sharingan both being Dojutsu doesn't mean that they are awakened in the same way. We were given the requirements, and how its unlocked, and literally nothing supports your point. "he didn't go into detail" is nothing but a baseless cop out argument.
Indra and Asura's chakra mix, create Hagoromo's chakra, thus the Rinnegan is awakened.
- You state of him giving Naruto and Sasuke, yin and yang chakras... but never show where it states its yin and yang.. Because Yin and Yang are required to make any sort of chakra for ninjutsu. But you seem to want me to give scans..
