Is Perfect susanoo a EMS or Rinnegan jutsu?

[Edge]

Either way, Kishi will forget that Madara used it in the past and make it a Rinnegan tech.

 

[kit]

so answer my question, why does he say anyone who sees PS dies when hashirama beat him?
and no like i said PS is the final form of madara's susanoo, we have already seen sasuke's final form.
but lets say you're right? how does sasuke the unlock PS?

That's not even what Madara said.

These are his exact words:

Spoiler

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Madara: "Well then...The complete Susano'o. It is said that anyone who has seen it dies."

"It is said" implies that it is not set in stone that anyone who has seen Susano'o couldn't live to tell about it. This is evident by the Kages standing right in Madara's face still alive even though they had witnessed/experienced the power of PS. Also remember that Hashirama went up against (and survived) Madara's PS.

Since Hashirama has already faced the magnificent/almighty PS (as acknowledged by Madara), it can be greatly implied that Madara needs EMS to use PS.

Spoiler

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Tsunade says: "Did my grandfather really fight against this...?"

Notice how Tsunade is looking up as she makes her statement. Also notice how Tsunade says "this". That would imply that Tsunade was referring to an inanimate object (PS) when making her statement.

I pointed the aforementioned out so I could cut down any confusion on who/what Tsunade was referring to when making her statement.

Madara responds to Tsunade with: "I already told you that the only one who can stop me is Hashirama."

Now...why does Madara say this?...because he is answering the question that Tsunade had just asked. He indirectly answers her question by saying only Hashirama can defeat me. In other words, Madara doesn't literally say the words "Hashirama can beat my PS", but this is understood since:

1. Madara says Hashirama is "the only one who can stop me"
2. There's no way Madara could have defeated Hashi without using his full power since Madara needed the kyuubi's help to fight Hashi (Hashi must have just been that strong)

Madara throws out another hint that Hashi has fought PS when he says: "Plus, I should say that it's probably a good thing for you that he is not here...Because..."

Madara then proceeds to use PS power to destroy some mountains as seen below:

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Then Madara says this:

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Madara: "If I'm the only one here...The extent to which the maps will need to be drawn won't be too drastic."

Madara saying the above statement implies that Madara and Hashi have had battles to where they have devastated the battlefield. Which of Madara's powers/techs can devastate a battlefield? PS can which he had just demonstrated when he destroyed those mountains.

This is a great and definitive indication that Madara has used PS against Hashirama.

Most of what I have just showed you is enough evidence to prove that Madara has used PS against Hashirama. Since Madara has used PS against Hashi, there is no way that he would need Senju DNA to use PS since he has used it before he had Senju DNA.

 

[thegame]

if u read the OP u would have seen that i said that susanoo is an EMS jutsu and PS is obtained by EMS combined with senju DNA which his what u just said...

now ur right this is a manga so why tsunade guess?
ill ask u the same i asked turson.
so why would madara say anyone whos see PS dies when hashrama beat him? answer this then i start taking u seriously...

No I mean that PS is an EMS jutsu, but that it may work even better with senju DNA, thus it still has absolutely nothing to do with senju or rinnengan U_U

Well if PS has anything to do with rinnengan, it's impossible for Madara to say those words, since he gave up his rinnengan shortly after obtaining them xd so you just proved it cannot be from rinnengan. Also it's not from the senju DNA, cause it has nothing to do with susano.

EDIT: just read the post above mine really..

 

[Namikaze Haru]

That's not even what Madara said.

These are his exact words:

Spoiler

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Madara: "Well then...The complete Susano'o. It is said that anyone who has seen it dies."

"It is said" implies that it is not set in stone that anyone who has seen Susano'o couldn't live to tell about it. This is evident by the Kages standing right in Madara's face still alive even though they had witnessed/experienced the power of PS. Also remember that Hashirama went up against (and survived) Madara's PS.

Since Hashirama has already faced the magnificent/almighty PS (as acknowledged by Madara), it can be greatly implied that Madara needs EMS to use PS.

Spoiler

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Tsunade says: "Did my grandfather really fight against this...?"

Notice how Tsunade is looking up as she makes her statement. Also notice how Tsunade says "this". That would imply that Tsunade was referring to an inanimate object (PS) when making her statement.

I pointed the aforementioned out so I could cut down any confusion on who/what Tsunade was referring to when making her statement.

Madara responds to Tsunade with: "I already told you that the only one who can stop me is Hashirama."

Now...why does Madara say this?...because he is answering the question that Tsunade had just asked. He indirectly answers her question by saying only Hashirama can defeat me. In other words, Madara doesn't literally say the words "Hashirama can beat my PS", but this is understood since:

1. Madara says Hashirama is "the only one who can stop me"
2. There's no way Madara could have defeated Hashi without using his full power since Madara needed the kyuubi's help to fight Hashi (Hashi must have just been that strong)

Madara throws out another hint that Hashi has fought PS when he says: "Plus, I should say that it's probably a good thing for you that he is not here...Because..."

Madara then proceeds to use PS power to destroy some mountains as seen below:

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Then Madara says this:

You must be registered for see images

Madara: "If I'm the only one here...The extent to which the maps will need to be drawn won't be too drastic."

Madara saying the above statement implies that Madara and Hashi have had battles to where they have devastated the battlefield. Which of Madara's powers/techs can devastate a battlefield? PS can which he had just demonstrated when he destroyed those mountains.

This is a great and definitive indication that Madara has used PS against Hashirama.

Most of what I have just showed you is enough evidence to prove that Madara has used PS against Hashirama. Since Madara has used PS against Hashi, there is no way that he would need Senju DNA to use PS since he has used it before he had Senju DNA.

no ur wrong what u just said makes me look even more right. madara says its said that anyone whos see the PS dies. there are 2 points i take from this.

1. it sounded as if madara was using PS for the first time, that why he said its said.
2.even if other people said it, madara himself knows that hashirama survived so why the hell would he still say it?

but im sorry but i think there no way that hashirama could have defeated PS and kurama at the same time but you do have a valid point so ill guess we will just have to wait and see.

 

[Namikaze Haru]

No I mean that PS is an EMS jutsu, but that it may work even better with senju DNA, thus it still has absolutely nothing to do with senju or rinnengan U_U

Well if PS has anything to do with rinnengan, it's impossible for Madara to say those words, since he gave up his rinnengan shortly after obtaining them xd so you just proved it cannot be from rinnengan. Also it's not from the senju DNA, cause it has nothing to do with susano.

EDIT: just read the post above mine really..

u jus proved again that u did not read the post...

1. i never said PS was from rinnegan
2. senju DNA has nothing to do with susanoo? having senju dna improves ur chakra levels, look at obito and danzo. what is susnaoo made from? yes charka...

but hey i never did say i was 100% right, i had a thought and made it known. sasuke progress will reveal the origin of PS, whether it be EMS or EMS with senju DNA? we will find out through him hopefully.

 

[Strata Uchiha]

It's an excellent theory. You very well could be right. I mean, there are so many gaps in Kishimoto's story as is so yeah I'll bite.

 

[saw2097]

PS is a EMS technique. I doubt Sasuke will get Senju DNA and he needs PS to fight Naruto, he just needs to learn how to use it first. (Since he will only have recently got it, he will probably only be able to maintain PS for a limited period of time.)

 

[yeahhh]

Is this a real question? I suppose I could refer you to Sasuke and his lack of Rinnegan, and the ability to summon Susanoo..he was also able to do this without EMS..so yeahhh

 

[thegame]

u jus proved again that u did not read the post...

1. i never said PS was from rinnegan
2. senju DNA has nothing to do with susanoo? having senju dna improves ur chakra levels, look at obito and danzo. what is susnaoo made from? yes charka...

but hey i never did say i was 100% right, i had a thought and made it known. sasuke progress will reveal the origin of PS, whether it be EMS or EMS with senju DNA? we will find out through him hopefully.

But your initial question is, whether PS is a rinnengan jutsu or a EMS jutsu, and this has been answered.

Senju DNA doesn't exactly make your chakra any better than before... It gives you a stronger "life-force", which might give you an increased amount of disposable chakra, but it changes nothing on how you use it. It might make Madara capable of maintaining PS for longer, but it does not change it.

And we wont find out anything from sasuke, since he already has Uzumaki DNA...

 

[kit]

no ur wrong what u just said makes me look even more right. madara says its said that anyone whos see the PS dies. there are 2 points i take from this.

1. it sounded as if madara was using PS for the first time, that why he said its said.
2.even if other people said it, madara himself knows that hashirama survived so why the hell would he still say it?

Madara made the "it is said" statement specifically because Hashi is the only one who has survived it. Once Madara broke out of edo tensei, he was just about done with fighting the Kages. He didn't want to have to pull out PS again cause the Kages had already seen it and lived. Remember though, the only reason the Kages survived PS was because PS was deactivated while edo tensei was first being released.

Spoiler

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Why would Madara disgrace himself by showing the Kages PS again after the Kages only illegitimately survived it? Madara's too prideful to do that. The only person deserving of seeing PS twice would be Hashi because he was the only one capable of defeating it.

but im sorry but i think there no way that hashirama could have defeated PS and kurama at the same time but you do have a valid point so ill guess we will just have to wait and see.

But there is no thinking involved regarding this matter. The manga has already said (and so has Madara himself) that Hashi defeated him. I've already shown you the scan were Madara says Hashi defeated PS so that's one down.


Now here's the scan were Madara himself states how Hashi was able to suppress Kurama:

Spoiler

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How many times does Madara have to say/show you how he was defeated Hashi? :shrug:

It's all in the manga.

 

[phantomlord22]

EMS tech

 

[shelke]

no ur wrong what u just said makes me look even more right. madara says its said that anyone whos see the PS dies. there are 2 points i take from this.

1. it sounded as if madara was using PS for the first time, that why he said its said.
2.even if other people said it, madara himself knows that hashirama survived so why the hell would he still say it?

but im sorry but i think there no way that hashirama could have defeated PS and kurama at the same time but you do have a valid point so ill guess we will just have to wait and see.

I am unsure what you're exactly getting at with this. The text is pretty clear, and you're twisting it around god knows why.

1: He said that those who saw it died. Yes, he didn't use it against Hashirama, but he fought him in his prime. He had a whole life ahead of him, as he was thought to be dead, and whoever saw it died. Can you do the math, then?

2: Look at the first point, and my previous post.

Hashirama had help from Mito. Manga is very clear on that front.

 

[Namikaze Haru]

Is this a real question? I suppose I could refer you to Sasuke and his lack of Rinnegan, and the ability to summon Susanoo..he was also able to do this without EMS..so yeahhh

u make no sense what so ever

But your initial question is, whether PS is a rinnengan jutsu or a EMS jutsu, and this has been answered.

Senju DNA doesn't exactly make your chakra any better than before... It gives you a stronger "life-force", which might give you an increased amount of disposable chakra, but it changes nothing on how you use it. It might make Madara capable of maintaining PS for longer, but it does not change it.

And we wont find out anything from sasuke, since he already has Uzumaki DNA...

sigh... yes title does say is PS and EMS or Rinnegan jutsu, but if u read the thread u would have seen i said not the rinnegan exaclty, just senju DNA. the only reason why i stated rinnegan is coz u awaken it after u gain senju DNA.

and yes senju DNA does improve ur chakra. why was danzo able to use so many sharingan? senju DNA

senju DNA also took a technique that could only be used once every ten years, and narrowed it down to a few times a day.

so PS could be the result of EMS plus senju DNA. like i said we will find out through sasuke.

and where the hell did u get that sasuke had uzumaki DNA? that is absolute nonsense and u know it.

 

[Namikaze Haru]

Is this a real question? I suppose I could refer you to Sasuke and his lack of Rinnegan, and the ability to summon Susanoo..he was also able to do this without EMS..so yeahhh

I am unsure what you're exactly getting at with this. The text is pretty clear, and you're twisting it around god knows why.

1: He said that those who saw it died. Yes, he didn't use it against Hashirama, but he fought him in his prime. He had a whole life ahead of him, as he was thought to be dead, and whoever saw it died. Can you do the math, then?

2: Look at the first point, and my previous post.

Hashirama had help from Mito. Manga is very clear on that front.

sry but u make no sense, and no manga stated very clearly that the battle was between Senju Hashirama and Uchiha Madara. Uzumaki Mito sealed kurama into herself after the battle.

 

[bl4ckJack]

Well presumably MS, but the user would probably die in 2 seconds without Senju dna.

Senju dna is the answer to everything!!!

This girl speaks the truth :y

 

[thegame]

u make no sense what so ever



sigh... yes title does say is PS and EMS or Rinnegan jutsu, but if u read the thread u would have seen i said not the rinnegan exaclty, just senju DNA. the only reason why i stated rinnegan is coz u awaken it after u gain senju DNA.

and yes senju DNA does improve ur chakra. why was danzo able to use so many sharingan? senju DNA

senju DNA also took a technique that could only be used once every ten years, and narrowed it down to a few times a day.

so PS could be the result of EMS plus senju DNA. like i said we will find out through sasuke.

and where the hell did u get that sasuke had uzumaki DNA? that is absolute nonsense and u know it.

You obviously have no understanding of what being senju, and having an incredible life force means. I suggest you read up on Naruto or Tsunade... And compare it with how Danzo "improved" Shisuis sharingan....

And Sasuke has been feeding on Karins chakra many times, and you probably heard from Kabuto? She is an Uzumaki U_U so here give me more nonsense pls...

 

[Draegod]

Perfect Susanoo is EMS justsu. Onooki even asked why Madara didnt use it against him in the past, Madara answered that there was no need to use it against a kid.

This answered the thread! Anything else isnt necessary!

 

[Namikaze Haru]

You obviously have no understanding of what being senju, and having an incredible life force means. I suggest you read up on Naruto or Tsunade... And compare it with how Danzo "improved" Shisuis sharingan....

And Sasuke has been feeding on Karins chakra many times, and you probably heard from Kabuto? She is an Uzumaki U_U so here give me more nonsense pls...

no ur the one who does not understand what being an senju means. life force and physical energy. physical energy is 1 on the attributes to create chakra. having senju DNA greatly improves ur chakra especially if u are an uchiha seeing as u now have the physical and spiritual energy of the sage of the six paths.
life force mean they can live very long lives as we have seen from uzumaki mito. as i said before susanoo consumes the user's life meaning that a normal uchiha with MS/EMS could never have the life force to use PS. having senju DNA combines the uchiha's powerful chakra with the senju's life force and in turn creates PS. this is my theory.

And ill tell why im more likely right then you are. when madara first uses susanoo he has he had his EMS, however when he uses PS he had his Rinnegan.

now if as you all claim, PS is an EMS jutsu, EMS is stronger than Rinnegan because madara refers to PS and his full power.

AND NO sasuke DOES NOT have uzumaki DNA. karin has been healing by letting him suck her chakra. its pretty much a similar way to when tsunade was healing the other kages and giving them chakra. kabuto injected her DNA into himself, its is very different. so please go sprout ur BS somewhere else.

 

[thegame]

no ur the one who does not understand what being an senju means. life force and physical energy. physical energy is 1 on the attributes to create chakra. having senju DNA greatly improves ur chakra especially if u are an uchiha seeing as u now have the physical and spiritual energy of the sage of the six paths.
life force mean they can live very long lives as we have seen from uzumaki mito. as i said before susanoo consumes the user's life meaning that a normal uchiha with MS/EMS could never have the life force to use PS. having senju DNA combines the uchiha's powerful chakra with the senju's life force and in turn creates PS. this is my theory.

And ill tell why im more likely right then you are. when madara first uses susanoo he has he had his EMS, however when he uses PS he had his Rinnegan.

now if as you all claim, PS is an EMS jutsu, EMS is stronger than Rinnegan because madara refers to PS and his full power.

AND NO sasuke DOES NOT have uzumaki DNA. karin has been healing by letting him suck her chakra. its pretty much a similar way to when tsunade was healing the other kages and giving them chakra. kabuto injected her DNA into himself, its is very different. so please go sprout ur BS somewhere else.

Haha I lost all my will to argue with you, you really have no idea what you are talking about... You just keep contradicting yourself, even in the same post you contradict your self. First you try to explain what senju DNA does, then afterwards you claim differently regarding Karin. Besides you just proved what I said in the beginning. I'm not even gonna find it in the manga to prove it, when it is obvious you didn't even look before trying to explain stuff...

Senju DNA doesn't improve his jutsu. It improves his chakra level and life force, and by improving this Madara can improve his jutsu. It's exactly the same as if you have a kuybi sealed inside you. You can use its chakra to improve your jutsu as well.

Besides... Uzumaki Mito lived a long life? She had an average life time on pair with that of Onoki or Hiruzen, actually they lived longer - given that Mito was same age as Hashirama, of course. But you know nothing of her age, so just keep claiming stuff without providing evidence...

Madara also used normal susanoo with rinnengan... So trying to argue that way is invalid...

And Sasuke doesn't have Uzumaki DNA, well he does. It's not similar to a normal healing jutsu. It heals way too fast, and it restores energy/chakra as well. The only way this phenomena can be explained, is because she uses her very strong chakra and life force, which also contains her DNA. It has even healed fatal wounds that went all the way to the rib case... It's a lot like the jutsu Tsunade uses on herself in order to regenerate cells very fast.. And she can only do it on herself, and because she is senju..

It is possible that Sasuke has Uzumaki DNA already, but I never said it was permanent. If it restores his chakra, it may not be, since it may be giving him her chakra, it might deplete over time, but as it is, he should have Uzumaki chakra within him...

 

[Namikaze Haru]

Haha I lost all my will to argue with you, you really have no idea what you are talking about... You just keep contradicting yourself, even in the same post you contradict your self. First you try to explain what senju DNA does, then afterwards you claim differently regarding Karin. Besides you just proved what I said in the beginning. I'm not even gonna find it in the manga to prove it, when it is obvious you didn't even look before trying to explain stuff...

Senju DNA doesn't improve his jutsu. It improves his chakra level and life force, and by improving this Madara can improve his jutsu. It's exactly the same as if you have a kuybi sealed inside you. You can use its chakra to improve your jutsu as well.

Besides... Uzumaki Mito lived a long life? She had an average life time on pair with that of Onoki or Hiruzen, actually they lived longer - given that Mito was same age as Hashirama, of course. But you know nothing of her age, so just keep claiming stuff without providing evidence...

Madara also used normal susanoo with rinnengan... So trying to argue that way is invalid...

And Sasuke doesn't have Uzumaki DNA, well he does. It's not similar to a normal healing jutsu. It heals way too fast, and it restores energy/chakra as well. The only way this phenomena can be explained, is because she uses her very strong chakra and life force, which also contains her DNA. It has even healed fatal wounds that went all the way to the rib case... It's a lot like the jutsu Tsunade uses on herself in order to regenerate cells very fast.. And she can only do it on herself, and because she is senju..

It is possible that Sasuke has Uzumaki DNA already, but I never said it was permanent. If it restores his chakra, it may not be, since it may be giving him her chakra, it might deplete over time, but as it is, he should have Uzumaki chakra within him...

no sry but i am the one who had lost the will to argue because you are so stupid its funny.

I said from the very beginning that senju DNA improves ur chakra, and susanoo's strength is based on the user's chakra. but i guess ur just too dumb to understand that.

hiruzen and onoki lived longer than mito. u really are stupid...

mito lived from the time of hashirama to the time of minato, and im not gona bother to find the manga page becuase ur a fool.

about sasuke and karin, im not even gona bother...