current kakashi vs old hiruzen

[muutobirama3rdraikagemizu]

Hiruzen hype is outdated and kakashi wins and sasuke>kakashi for the guy who said kakashi stonger

 

[TripleM24]

kakashi 1st of all and 2nd... for me personally i believe the hokages go in order backwards in terms of strength. Tsunade, hiruzen, minato, Tobirama, and Hashi being the strongest

 

[SilverSlick]

Hiruzen is the weakest hokage, so i'll go with Kakashi.

But then again, Sasuke can take both 1n2.

One thing, Tsunade is arguably the weakest hokage.

Another thing, if EMS Madara couldn't take Hashirama, then Sasuke definitely can't take Hashirama AND Tobirama.

 

[ProjectOuterspace]

Post's like these are stupid.

First off we don't even know what Hiruzen can do.

Second all we have to go off of is hype. And Hiruzen knows just as many jutsu as Kakashi and he doesn't need a sharingan to do them all.

The fact he was called "God" of shinobi kind of means he was a beast. So Hiruzen all day.

 

[Hokage Sharingan Kakashi]

i'll go with kakashi mid-high difficulty... Kakashi can use all 5 elements (not sure about wind though) so he can counter almost all of hiruzen's fire and earth justus

Kakashi has four elements. Fire, Earth, Lighting, and Water. The only time he has used a wind release jutsu is in two or three of the PS2 Naruto: Ultimate Ninja games, never in the actual show. But his three mainly used elements doton, raiton & suiton should be more than enough to counter Hiruzen's powerful katon and doton jutsus. Kakashi's main issue would Monkey King Enma.

 

[Icelerate]

who mention sasuke here
and current kakashi is stronger than your sasuke

No current Kakashi is not stronger than current Sasuke.

:sy: Yet he sealed 2 powerful edos and almost got orochimaru even at that old age. Nope, he is not overrated. He is actually underrated way too much here :sy:

@OP: I think it could go either way or a tie. I say a tie because of bringer of darkness, hiruzen would end killing kakashi and himself.




This is one of the reasons why NB Naruto Discussion sucks these days U_U

Hiruzen does not have bringer of darkness, well he might but we haven't seen it in the manga. Hiruzen ends up sealing a lightning clone from Kakashi, therefore he gets paralysed and killed.

 

[Bijuu mode naruto]

Hiruzen is the weakest hokage, so i'll go with Kakashi.

But then again, Sasuke can take both 1n2.

hey shut up and Hav s wank over sasugay, tell me where it says sasuke vs Hashirama and Tobirama

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[EliteKakashi]

Kakashi has four elements. Fire, Earth, Lighting, and Water. The only time he has used a wind release jutsu is in two or three of the PS2 Naruto: Ultimate Ninja games, never in the actual show. But his three mainly used elements doton, raiton & suiton should be more than enough to counter Hiruzen's powerful katon and doton jutsus. Kakashi's main issue would Monkey King Enma.

Katon was filler. He's only shown Raiton, Suiton and Doton...

Copying/pasting a post of mine from a different forum on this subject, restricting Kamui:

Kakashi and Old Hiruzen would be interesting. I think many people over look the fact that Hiruzen actually held back vs Oro and the Edo Hokages. Not only did Enma comment that Hiruzen wasn't being his usual self, but Hiruzen was likely(not exactly fact, but I think it's a fair point) being a little conservative with his chakra, as he was up against 3 people.

Taijutsu - Would probably be even here. Kakashi is nearly elite in taijutsu, and I think his sharingan would close the gap. Hiruzen's taijutsu showed to still be incredible in his fight vs the Edo Hokages.

Edge - Tie

Ninjutsu - The only issue here is that Hiruzen doesn't have the chakra levels to go in to a prolonged ninjutsu battle, and Kakashi currently holds the elemental advantage(having Raiton, Suiton and Doton, compared to just Katon and Doton), because while I feel it's safe to assume Hiruzen could use more than Katon and Doton, it'd be hard to assume exactly what techniques he could use. There is always the statement "every technique in konoha", though.

Edge - Kakashi in feats, Hiruzen in hype

Genjutsu - Hiruzen was said to know over 1,000 genjutsu, but he didn't use the first one. Kakashi doesn't have a high enough level genjutsu to make a difference, so genjutsu isn't likely to be used.

Edge - Probably wouldn't even come in to play, but hype easily makes this go to Hiruzen.

Intelligence - Kakashi's analytic feats are matched by no one in this series outside of Shikaku and Shikamaru. It's simply his specialty. Hiruzen I doubt was a slouch, but he didn't use much strategy in his fight. Overall book smarts, Hiruzen would have the edge. But combat intelligence? Kakashi wins this quite easily going off feats.

Edge - Kakashi

Strength/Speed/Stamina - Kakashi wins all 3, due to Hiruzen's old age. Their databook stats are equal in stamina, but it appears Kakashi will receive a boost in stamina after this war. I think speed would be the biggest challenge for Hiruzen. Strength is kind of irrelevant between these two, and both have their difficulties in stamina(though Hiruzen more so than current Kakashi), but Kakashi quite clearly has the speed battle won.

Edge - Kakashi

Overall - I think Kakashi would probably win with mid difficulty against Old Hiruzen by himself, but summoning Enma bumps this up to a high difficulty fight that could go either way...this all being if Shiki Fuujin is restricted. If it's not, Hiruzen would more likely than not win(well.. I guess I should say tie, lol). Shiki Fuujin is not even something Orochimaru recognized, so I find it hard to believe that Kakashi would know what the handseals meant. Hiruzen could use his shadow clones and Enma to help grab Kakashi, Enma being the most likely option to get him, and Kakashi would be done for.

So...

Overall Edge - Kakashi, high difficulty without Shiki Fuujin, Tie if it's counted.

 

[Dark Anbu]

Hiruzen is underrated...
Hiruzen will win this low diff

 

[Bogard]

Hiruzen is underrated...
Hiruzen will win this low diff

Sriously? O.O Care to explain how?

 

[Vexorian]

:sy: Yet he sealed 2 powerful edos and almost got orochimaru even at that old age. Nope, he is not overrated. He is actually underrated way too much here :sy:

@OP: I think it could go either way or a tie. I say a tie because of bringer of darkness, hiruzen would end killing kakashi and himself.




This is one of the reasons why NB Naruto Discussion sucks these days U_U

Nice post. You're absolutely right ^^

I think Hiruzen + Enma wins Taijutsu, and from the hype he can easily tie Kakashi in Ninjutsu and Genjutsu. Kakashi actually has the edge in the strength, stamina and speed categories though...I really can't decide. I'll save my decision for later.

 

[Wakoo]

kakashi no doubt

 

[Air]

Hiruzen is an old fart, overrated.

Kakashi for sure, I don't think hiruzen is that overrated though >.>

 

[Dark Anbu]

Sriously? O.O Care to explain how?

know alot of forbbiden jutsus, beated the first and second hokage together( yeah i know that they didn't fight with full power because orochimaru's edo wasent that strong but still it's not easy to fight and seal them),his summoning jutsus are superior then kakashi's dogs too, and kakashi have low stema so he can't spam ms too

 

[Vexorian]

Kakashi and Old Hiruzen would be interesting. I think many people over look the fact that Hiruzen actually held back vs Oro and the Edo Hokages. Not only did Enma comment that Hiruzen wasn't being his usual self, but Hiruzen was likely(not exactly fact, but I think it's a fair point) being a little conservative with his chakra, as he was up against 3 people.

Taijutsu - Would probably be even here. Kakashi is nearly elite in taijutsu, and I think his sharingan would close the gap. Hiruzen's taijutsu showed to still be incredible in his fight vs the Edo Hokages.

Edge - Tie
Edge - Hiruzen: I believe that Enma gives him a flexibility that Kakashi can't match in this one.

Ninjutsu - The only issue here is that Hiruzen doesn't have the chakra levels to go in to a prolonged ninjutsu battle, and Kakashi currently holds the elemental advantage(having Raiton, Suiton and Doton, compared to just Katon and Doton), because while I feel it's safe to assume Hiruzen could use more than Katon and Doton, it'd be hard to assume exactly what techniques he could use. There is always the statement "every technique in konoha", though.

Edge - Kakashi in feats, Hiruzen in hype
Agreed.

Genjutsu - Hiruzen was said to know over 1,000 genjutsu, but he didn't use the first one. Kakashi doesn't have a high enough level genjutsu to make a difference, so genjutsu isn't likely to be used.

Edge - Probably wouldn't even come in to play, but hype easily makes this go to Hiruzen.
Agreed.

Intelligence - Kakashi's analytic feats are matched by no one in this series outside of Shikaku and Shikamaru. It's simply his specialty. Hiruzen I doubt was a slouch, but he didn't use much strategy in his fight. Overall book smarts, Hiruzen would have the edge. But combat intelligence? Kakashi wins this quite easily going off feats.

Edge - Kakashi
Edge - Hiruzen: I don't think you're giving Hiruzen the credit he deserves. Although I do think that the only reason Hiruzen takes it is his massive experience as a Shinobi compared to Kakashi, as Kakashi has shown an intellect to match anybody's.

Strength/Speed/Stamina - Kakashi wins all 3, due to Hiruzen's old age. Their databook stats are equal in stamina, but it appears Kakashi will receive a boost in stamina after this war. I think speed would be the biggest challenge for Hiruzen. Strength is kind of irrelevant between these two, and both have their difficulties in stamina(though Hiruzen more so than current Kakashi), but Kakashi quite clearly has the speed battle won.

Edge - Kakashi
Agreed.

Overall - I think Kakashi would probably win with mid difficulty against Old Hiruzen by himself, but summoning Enma bumps this up to a high difficulty fight that could go either way...this all being if Shiki Fuujin is restricted. If it's not, Hiruzen would more likely than not win(well.. I guess I should say tie, lol). Shiki Fuujin is not even something Orochimaru recognized, so I find it hard to believe that Kakashi would know what the handseals meant. Hiruzen could use his shadow clones and Enma to help grab Kakashi, Enma being the most likely option to get him, and Kakashi would be done for.

My issue with this is that this fight will likely revolve around Taijutsu and Close-Range Ninjutsu, as that is mainly what Kakashi uses. He hasn't shown much that he's used at a range in recent times, except Kamui. If we restrict Shiki Fuujin and Kamui it'll be an incredibly close fight, I think.

So...

Overall Edge - Kakashi, high difficulty without Shiki Fuujin, Tie if it's counted.

Overall Edge - Don't think there is one to be honest. Could go either way. Bringer of Darkness will prove to be difficult for Kakashi to fight against, though the ninja dogs will help him significantly. I see Kakashi getting outclassed in Taijutsu but not Ninjutsu.

 

[Red Slayer]

Hiruzen Low/mid Diff for sure

 

[karol the don]

kakashi for sure against a old grandpa he doesnt have such problems

 

[Hokage Sharingan Kakashi]

Katon was filler. He's only shown Raiton, Suiton and Doton...

Copying/pasting a post of mine from a different forum on this subject, restricting Kamui:

Filler or not Kakashi is still capable of using Katon style jutsus. My main thought on why he doesn't is b/c out of all the elements he possesses Katon requires the most chakra to mold.

 

[EliteKakashi]

Filler or not Kakashi is still capable of using Katon style jutsus. My main thought on why he doesn't is b/c out of all the elements he possesses Katon requires the most chakra to mold.

While it is likely he can, just basing off the sheer amount of techniques he's copied, it's never been so much as mentioned. Can't go off of what we think a character has.

 

[USSJ Future Trunks]

kamui, raikiri clones, better intelligence, suitons without a water source to put out hiruzens dragon fire, earth release to ambush hiruzen, sharingan prediction etc. i say draw. kakashi fought 3 v2 jins and hiruzen fought three kage level ninjas.

Kakashi has four elements. Fire

hes never shown any katons at all

Hiruzen is the weakest hokage,

wtf? he can at least crush tsunade and tobirama

Hiruzen hype is outdated

its not outdated unless contradicted

The fact he was called "God" of shinobi kind of means he was a beast. So Hiruzen all day.

in his prime