War Arc SM Naruto vs. Edo Itachi

[Ambivalence]

Well according to that tier list, Killer Bee is better than war arc SM Naruto. So it's already wrong.

Except he actually is.

 

[Booker]

Itachi smacks him around for fun.

 

[UnknownJin]

 

[NarutoX28]

plot =/= debate.

We call this a cop-out.

It's obvious kishi put itachi w/ nagato because he knew only he had the correct techniques to deal with him. his performance was nothing more than a better match up, a match up that required nagato w/ fragile legs and naruto acting more idiotic than usual. "oh durr forgot he could absorb ninjutsu durrr" all to make itachi look better.

Please, we're led to believe that the Mangekyo has the advantage against the 3T Sharingan because it's a superior tool which is congruous with the relationship between the Rinnegan and Mangekyo Sharingan. Itachi was ill-suited to battling Nagato because Nagato had an acute awareness of all of Itachi's abilities while Itachi did not. On the contrary, KCM Naruto had substantial knowledge on Nagato's techniques yet Itachi immediately deciphered Nagato's Rinnegan within a few exchanges which proved to be an elusive task for an entire village.

Naruto's vacuity isn't what screwed him over, it was the fact that he was forced to act on a whim since he simply had no feasible options to escape Nagato's Rinnegan. This situation wouldn't have occurred for Itachi had he been the one in Naruto's position.

highly doubt that. like I said above in regards to match ups, the same would apply here for naruto. He's not like jiraiya. he has better reflexes, shunshin, durability, CQC due to his chakra arm(s). meaning more than likely itachi would be forced to rely on his susanoo, which I see no reason why kcm can't flank it with his FRS when it couldn't even remain stabilized against kirin. worst case scenario naruto would be forced to use massive shadow clones, to lessen the potenial of any counters by MS.

So you're willing to give KCM Naruto the benefit of the doubt and not Itachi who outmaneuvered Nagato and DSM Kabuto, something KCM Naruto can't accomplish on his lonesome? Let's not be intellectually dishonest here. KCM Naruto struggled to react to the Base Jins and even remarked their speed while Itachi effortlessly eluded DSM Kabuto's sensory awareness who casually reacted to Amaterasu and Susano'o Arrow and inflicted a wound on DSM Kabuto despite lacking killer intent. Additionally, DSM Kabuto marveled at Itachi's own reactions and believed that Itachi could scrutinize his every move which was illustrated by out-speeding DSM Kabuto in reaction speed when he intercepted Kabuto w/ Suiton and lured Kabuto into Izanami.

Itachi defeats KCM Naruto, let's not joke around here.

 

[Amenotejikara]

Wait.

Stuff like

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, isn't a threat to Itachi in any way?

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. Maybe I'm overestimating SM Naruto but War Arc SM should be able to pull off just about the same thing replacing the Chou Odama with RS... and given he can spam those techniques like no tomorrow, I would assume Itachi would have a little bit of trouble.

but from what I'm reading above Itachi stomps lol. I need a little insight, because I just don't see how the things I mentioned above are ineffective.

Also his stamina and chakra are unlimited...yes, but aren't his eyes still susceptible to deterioration from overuse? Or was Izanami just a special case?

Izanami and izanagi is a one time per eye deal. it is "limitless" chakra in edo tensei mode thou personally imo plot never takes full advantage of it in comparison to it's versus counterpart. Itachi is above MS sasuke's lvl and the latter prompted naruto to rely on kurama in order to face sasuke. the same rule would apply against itachi. especially since unlike MS sasuke, itachi has one of the best feints in the series, good enough to confuse one of the better and faster sage mode sensory user. as for the panels you posted, that only occured because kurama was pinned down, otherwise he'd had disrupt most of the massive rasengan barrage. if he tried that against susanoo, the blade reach is far enough to disrupt it or the very least lessen the impact to insignificant. the worst part about this is SM naruto's foot speed is not all that impressive compared to when using kurama mode so more than likely even when using clones naruto would be in frontal itachi's position (MS tracking) which is the last place someone would want to be without some form of physical ability to suppress it like preta, avatar or kamui.

 

[BLAZE]

Also his stamina and chakra are unlimited...yes, but aren't his eyes still susceptible to deterioration from overuse? Or was Izanami just a special case?

Since there was no backlash or pain and the fact itachi used susanoo multiple times without showing any effect doubt bold is the case for edo's

 

[Anbu Knights]

Since there was no backlash or pain and the fact itachi used susanoo multiple times without showing any effect doubt bold is the case for edo's

That is true. The only reason I made that claim was due to the fact that Izanami still induced blindness. I can't recall but do the eyes even bleed when using MS techs in edo form?

 

[Tantalus Thief]

That is true. The only reason I made that claim was due to the fact that Izanami still induced blindness. I can't recall but do the eyes even bleed when using MS techs in edo form?

Itachi's eyes bled during the Naruto-KB fight

 

[Anbu Knights]

Itachi's eyes bled during the Naruto-KB fight

So then there is a possibility that the eyes can still be overused and lose sight, even in edo form?

 

[BLAZE]

So then there is a possibility that the eyes can still be overused and lose sight, even in edo form?

Eh no even sasuke's eyes bled when using amaterasu with EMS and even rinnegan

 

[Warlocks]

Edo Itachi win cuz he is immortal
but alive Itachi loss

 

[TheLostShinobi]

So then there is a possibility that the eyes can still be overused and lose sight, even in edo form?

Even if he rapidly lost his eyesight due to MS overuse, Edo Regen would just heal it.

Itachi shits

 

[sayian]

We call this a cop-out.

Indeed it is. it's quite sad in the war arc that kishi show kcm true potential only when plot progression wasn't involved.

Please, we're led to believe that the Mangekyo has the advantage against the 3T Sharingan because it's a superior tool which is congruous with the relationship between the Rinnegan and Mangekyo Sharingan. Itachi was ill-suited to battling Nagato because Nagato had an acute awareness of all of Itachi's abilities while Itachi did not. On the contrary, KCM Naruto had substantial knowledge on Nagato's techniques yet Itachi immediately deciphered Nagato's Rinnegan within a few exchanges which proved to be an elusive task for an entire village.

Naruto's vacuity isn't what screwed him over, it was the fact that he was forced to act on a whim since he simply had no feasible options to escape Nagato's Rinnegan. This situation wouldn't have occurred for Itachi had he been the one in Naruto's position.

I'm aware and is the point I tried to make. every jutsu has a weakness and itachi just so happened to have right exploitation. This is honestly no different than sasuke vs deidara scenario. all plot had to do was restrict nagato a bit and it was practically in itachi's bag by default. your constant badgering about intel this and intel that is irrelevant when the underlining fact is that incompatible match ups can exist and Nagato v small chakra modes is one of them, doesn't have shit to do with itachi > kcm.

So you're willing to give KCM Naruto the benefit of the doubt and not Itachi who outmaneuvered Nagato and DSM Kabuto, something KCM Naruto can't accomplish on his lonesome? Let's not be intellectually dishonest here. KCM Naruto struggled to react to the Base Jins and even remarked their speed while Itachi effortlessly eluded DSM Kabuto's sensory awareness who casually reacted to Amaterasu and Susano'o Arrow and inflicted a wound on DSM Kabuto despite lacking killer intent. Additionally, DSM Kabuto marveled at Itachi's own reactions and believed that Itachi could scrutinize his every move which was illustrated by out-speeding DSM Kabuto in reaction speed when he intercepted Kabuto w/ Suiton and lured Kabuto into Izanami.

Itachi defeats KCM Naruto, let's not joke around here.

Benefit of the doubt? lol. lay off the poke'weed ass ketchup. for starters, not only was kabuto holding back and facing 1v2. the situation is not the same in naruto's case. kabuto situation with the feint is because he had to rely on sensory =/= eye contact. jiraiya said even sensory cannot defend themselves efficiency w/o seeing or speaking. so other than that I have no idea where you got the idea itachi out preformed DSM kabuto. if you're talking about the immortality crutch itachi took advantage of then sure and that would likely be the main and only reason he would defeat kcm naruto.

So please do be kind explain to me how he beats someone who should be able to not just break genjutsu w/ kurama as a perfect jink but also massive summon clones that several of them should and will get out of itachi's LoS and proceed to bombard him with FRS or MBD against susanoo, all of which don't even need to be CQC range when they could stretch their chakra arms even further than sasuke's chidori spear limit therefore forcing itachi to distance himself with susanoo since he obviously can't sweep or amaterasu all of them -which I doubt will work anyway since he side stepped Ay and blitz kisame- if naruto does lose it'll certainly be because itachi had to play on the defensive and nothing more by relying on his unlimited chakra spam but if naruto get's that one opening it's over for itachi. and base on naruto's successful track record of clone feints, he stands one hell of a chance to rival itachi's. so spare me MS one shots, it's not happening.

 

[NarutoX28]

Indeed it is. it's quite sad in the war arc that kishi show kcm true potential only when plot progression wasn't involved.

Except KCM Naruto's confounding speed when he evaded V2 Raikage was meant to further the plot. Everything in the manga is used to further the plot. I'm honestly not even sure why you brought this up.

I'm aware and is the point I tried to make. every jutsu has a weakness and itachi just so happened to have right exploitation. This is honestly no different than sasuke vs deidara scenario. all plot had to do was restrict nagato a bit and it was practically in itachi's bag by default. your constant badgering about intel this and intel that is irrelevant when the underlining fact is that incompatible match ups can exist and Nagato v small chakra modes is one of them, doesn't have shit to do with itachi > kcm.

Being forced to exploit a non-existent blind-spot by attempting to elude the Rinnegan's field of vision is incongruous with the notion behind it being classified as correct exploitation considering the Rinnegan's defense were marveled by many due to the devoid blind-spot. The only reason Itachi accomplished this was through his perspicacious usage and finesse with his jutsu, not because he had correct exploitation.

Your frivolous bickering won't discredit how Itachi's Mangekyo is ill-equipped in handling Nagato's Rinnegan as I mentioned previously. I also referred to intel specifically to illustrate the difference in their combat ability even with the advantages Naruto had at his disposal. You can't honestly believe that lack of intel for Itachi wasn't cumbersome at all when this was explicitly why Kabuto had the advantage against Itachi to begin with.

Benefit of the doubt? lol. lay off the poke'weed ass ketchup. for starters, not only was kabuto holding back and facing 1v2. the situation is not the same in naruto's case. kabuto situation with the feint is because he had to rely on sensory =/= eye contact. jiraiya said even sensory cannot defend themselves efficiency w/o seeing or speaking. so other than that I have no idea where you got the idea itachi out preformed DSM kabuto. if you're talking about the immortality crutch itachi took advantage of then sure and that would likely be the main and only reason he would defeat kcm naruto.

Get off that shit. Kabuto confirmed that Natural Energy augmentation was the predominate reason for his evasiveness.

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None of what you argued is irrelevant when DSM Kabuto's sensory awareness that enabled him to casually side-step Susano'o Arrow cannot be exploited by KCM Naruto. Honestly not even sure how you concluded that Kabuto was at a disadvantage when he had both topographical advantage and a keen outlook on all of Itachi's abilities while Itachi lacked knowledge and was forced to baby his brother the entire time. This, all while refraining from killing Kabuto in the first place. DSM Kabuto held the advantage yet Itachi effortlessly outclassed him and eluded Kabuto's sensory awareness gracefully.

Provide some feats of KCM Naruto remotely performing that well and I might concede.

So please do be kind explain to me how he beats someone who should be able to not just break genjutsu w/ kurama as a perfect jink but also massive summon clones that several of them should and will get out of itachi's LoS and proceed to bombard him with FRS or MBD against susanoo, all of which don't even need to be CQC range when they could stretch their chakra arms even further than sasuke's chidori spear limit therefore forcing itachi to distance himself with susanoo since he obviously can't sweep or amaterasu all of them -which I doubt will work anyway since he side stepped Ay and blitz kisame- if naruto does lose it'll certainly be because itachi had to play on the defensive and nothing more by relying on his unlimited chakra spam but if naruto get's that one opening and base on naruto's successful track record of clone feints, he stands one hell of a chance to rival itachi's. so spare me MS one shots, it's not happening.

Verbose response that can be refuted with a few sentences:

1. He sweeps through all of the clones with Susano'o with exhausted Naruto's Stamina.
2. Uses Amaterasu or crows as a diversionary tactic and devours FRS with Amaterasu.
3. Closes the distance between Naruto and himself.
4. Clone feints him.
5. Tsukyomi GG which even Naruto believed could not be withstood by a Perfect Jin such as Bee.

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I love how you desperately cling to clone-spamming when this hasn't subdued any profound ninja nor is this going to be conducive to Naruto's success because Naruto's clones are weaker in proportion to how many clones were summoned by Naruto. Simply resorting to such a chakra-intensive tactic is a tenuous argument at best.

 

[sayian]

Being forced to exploit a non-existent blind-spot by attempting to elude the Rinnegan's field of vision is incongruous with the notion behind it being classified as correct exploitation considering the Rinnegan's defense were marveled by many due to the devoid blind-spot. The only reason Itachi accomplished this was through his perspicacious usage and finesse with his jutsu, not because he had correct exploitation.

Ah I see you recently graduated college in the field of pretentious.

Your frivolous bickering won't discredit how Itachi's Mangekyo is ill-equipped in handling Nagato's Rinnegan as I mentioned previously. I also referred to intel specifically to illustrate the difference in their combat ability even with the advantages Naruto had at his disposal. You can't honestly believe that lack of intel for Itachi wasn't cumbersome at all when this was explicitly why Kabuto had the advantage against Itachi to begin with.

by your LOGIC -despite amaterasu literally countered the effects of animal path's regeneration, susanoo karate chopped asura path and more than likely his sharingan was able to see chakra from the invisible salamander and of course his skill in kunai enabled him to disable the blind spots that even jiraiya struggled so hard to overcome- is still ill-equipped?

Get off that shit. Kabuto confirmed that Natural Energy augmentation was the predominate reason for his evasiveness.

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None of what you argued is irrelevant when DSM Kabuto's sensory awareness that enabled him to casually side-step Susano'o Arrow cannot be exploited by KCM Naruto. Honestly not even sure how you concluded that Kabuto was at a disadvantage when he had both topographical advantage and a keen outlook on all of Itachi's abilities while Itachi lacked knowledge and was forced to baby his brother the entire time. This, all while refraining from killing Kabuto in the first place. DSM Kabuto held the advantage yet Itachi effortlessly outclassed him and eluded Kabuto's sensory awareness gracefully.

Doesn't make sense, if someone can explain this for me it'd be appreciated, because if Kabuto was able to dodge Arrow but not feint (thou he technically did) it means has less to do with itachi's speed and more to do with the feint confusing him, likely because the sensory was focused or clouded by the dozen crows. I would assume logically if kabuto's eyes were open he'd be able to react much quicker like he normally do otherwise I see no reason why his successful feints couldn't kill the likes of base minato and hashirama which I know is idiotic to say.

[/quote]

Verbose response that can be refuted with a few sentences:

1. He sweeps through all of the clones with Susano'o with exhausted Naruto's Stamina.
2. Uses Amaterasu or crows as a diversionary tactic and devours FRS with Amaterasu.
3. Closes the distance between Naruto and himself.
4. Clone feints him.
5. Tsukyomi GG which even Naruto believed could not be withstood by a Perfect Jin such as Bee.

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Complete crap lol. (1) for starters his overrated amaterasu is only as fast as his eye can keep track of. As long as naruto is moving in his top speed he's good and (2) as long as naruto can form his ninjutsu while running, itachi eyes will be forced to follow it (if he wants to counter it ofc) leaving him inevitably open for a flank since unlike sasuke he lacks the ability to manipulate the flame meaning that every angle(head) that itachi's right eye is not looking at is a exploitable target for naruto take advantage of much like he did to kakuzu. (3) his feints is no problem either since it's only as it's most effectiveness when the user is either stationary like kabuto and sasuke were or during CQC, which obviously will not happen since A. naruto will be running anyway since he's busy trying to avoid amaterasu and B. can counter these feints w/ a simple chakra arm meaning naruto will be far enough from it's small AoE crows/explosion to not get caught in it. (4) lol tsukuyomi isn't doing shit, let it go and lastly (5) That I forgot to mention is that his susanoo's sword speed is featless, nothing that naruto(s) couldn't react and dodge unless you're going to sit here and tell me BS that it's faster than Raikage's v2 speed.

I love how you desperately cling to clone-spamming when this hasn't subdued any profound ninja nor is this going to be conducive to Naruto's success because Naruto's clones are weaker in proportion to how many clones were summoned by Naruto. Simply resorting to such a chakra-intensive tactic is a tenuous argument at best.

Irrelevant statement because,
1. naruto canonically overly relies on clones w/ rasengans.
2. has several times subdued multiple shinobis, especially in combination w/ chakra arms.
3. it ironically contradicts your statement. because neither has amaterasu or feints put down any profound ninja.

Simply resorting to such a chakra-intensive tactic is a tenuous argument at best.

Please lol. if not for itachi more variety in techniques than naruto your trivial nonsense is no different than mine. Go get KG or someone to prove me right or wrong cause what you're saying is absolute nonsense. "tsuku GG" <- lol log off

 

[Uchihakil]

Itachi beats him mid diff

 

[Eng nawashi]

Itachi low mid diff though he is kinda overrated. People think because he is an edo he can spam his jutsu forever and that isnt true. He can only use his MS as much as his alive version can.the only difference is that MS jutsus doesnt tire his body as it usually does and running out of chakra wouldnt cause him to die. Sasuke has canonically questioned Edo itachi's chakra which should tell you something.

 

[BLAZE]

Sasuke has canonically questioned Edo itachi's chakra which should tell you something.

when was this

 

[Eng nawashi]

when was this

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He asks Itachi if he can still use Susano.

 

[TheLostShinobi]

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He asks Itachi if he can still use Susano.

WTF are you on about? Edo Tensei's canonically have infinite chakra. Theres nothing you can say to dispute that.