Mei vs Kakuzu

[Brother Numpsay]

Kakuzu can't evade Mei's lava at close range

Spoiler

Kakuzu isn't evading free flowing lava release at close range. Not when

You must be registered for see links

. Not when

You must be registered for see links

instead of simply sidestepping despite sidestepping being able to conserve chakra and him having already

You must be registered for see links

before. Kakuzu isn't as fast or reflexive as any 3 tomoe Uchiha in the manga, so I doubt he'll be able to evade as long as Mei is within 10 m from him.

Spoiler

None of you examples are good to give reasons on why Kakuzu can't do it. Madara example is bad because, Viz states he found it not worthy to be absorbed, which is why he dodged it "last sec" in the first place. Your Sasuke example is not good either. Im not going to bring up Karin, but the very fact that Sasuke challenged even Chojuro attack: Can we conclude that Sasuke "needed ribcage to block" Chojuro's blitz? The same argument can be made that Chojuro blitz Sasuke and needed to result to ribcage, instead of dodging his attack.

I dont know how you got to @bold conclusion when we have feats that Kakuzu was able to catch up with Kakashi Raikiri blitz to Hidan and smacked him right in front of him.

Mei can defend herself from Kakuzu's attacks

Spoiler

Kakuzu's katon + fuuton combo is easily defended against with water pillar considering

You must be registered for see links

is on par with

You must be registered for see links

and the fact that katon is weak to suiton. Kakuzu's fuuton is also getting stopped by water pillar because both techniques are of an equal scale and water is more dense than wind. Raiton gian doesn't have many piercing feats and its hyped to be able to pierce through non chakra enhanced boulders which aren't as large as Mei's chakra enhanced water pillar. Not to mention that when raiton collides with suiton, it defuses and conducts all throughout the suiton so raiton gian will lose its shape anyway.

Spoiler

Again how do you lead to the conclusion that Water Pillar beats Katon+Futon when Kakashi outright made a general statement, not specifically to him that Suiton is not enough to beat the combo. It needed the power of Naruto and Yamato (which scales the same as Mei) to cancel this combo, not even overpowering it's advantage. Yet Yamato combo I easily see overpowering Mei's water pillar.

Water being more dense then Wind is irrelevant when Kakuzu's Wind is superior in Pressure by far.

How is Gian piercing feats relevant when it outright shown to = Raikiri. Either way you made a good point on what happens when suiton and raiton mix. Whats comes to question if the conduction goes the opposite direct, to electrocute the Suiton user, then when a user or team mixes both of suiton and raiton together, where they're safe.


There's more I would address but I am more interested in these points that lead to the conclusion of "counter"

 

[Zexion~]

Water pillar isn't blocking the combination .-. It doesn't matter how large it is the flames would evaporate any water it touches meaning the pillar would fall to the ground with its form broken, it doesn't have to evaporate the whole technique.

Honestly Ice, this is actually the definition of wanking.

Mei loses...every time.

 

[Thesaurus]

Water pillar isn't blocking the combination .-. It doesn't matter how large it is the flames would evaporate any water it touches meaning the pillar would fall to the ground with its form broken, it doesn't have to evaporate the whole technique.

Honestly Ice, this is actually the definition of wanking.

Mei loses...every time.

Nah dude, I agree that Kakuzu wins but there's 0 chances of Water Pillar being evaporated. It's just too massive. For a fire to work you need oxygen, fuel and heat. When water is applied to fire it evaporates and the reaction for water evaporation takes a lot of energy from the fire. There's literally no way for Katon + Futon to have that much energy to evaporate the entirety of the Pillar. The water would create a blanket in-between the fire and the oxygen and take out a necessity from the tri-factor.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Nah dude, I agree that Kakuzu wins but there's 0 chances of Water Pillar being evaporated. It's just too massive. For a fire to work you need oxygen, fuel and heat. When water is applied to fire it evaporates and the reaction for water evaporation takes a lot of energy from the fire. There's literally no way for Katon + Futon to have that much energy to evaporate the entirety of the Pillar. The water would create a blanket in-between the fire and the oxygen and take out a necessity from the tri-factor.

Lets not start ignoring manga for the sake. We already seen it needed to power of Suiton+Futon to cancel Kakuzu's. And that Suiton+Futon is superior move to Mei's Water Pillar.

 

[Thesaurus]

Lets not start ignoring manga for the sake. We already seen it needed to power of Suiton+Futon to cancel Kakuzu's. And that Suiton+Futon is superior move to Mei's Water Pillar.

Can't tell if you're trolling or serious. The manga showed two roughly equal sized attacks. In this situation Mei's Suiton makes Kakuzu's Katon+Futon combo look like a lighter's flame.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Can't tell if you're trolling or serious. The manga showed two roughly equal sized attacks. In this situation Mei's Suiton makes Kakuzu's Katon+Futon combo look like a lighter's flame.

And Im sure you are serious to think Mei's Suiton is bigger then Kakuzu elements.

 

[Thesaurus]

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Look at how far to the right the water pillar extends. That Katon barely evaporated any of it and it was released by Madara, a person whose Katon power is unrivalled. Yea, no. No chance Katon+Futon will do much at all to her massive Water sprout which extends drastically, Kakuzu's combo is not even insanely big. The only reason Mei loses is because Kakuzu's jutsu counter her jutsu much harder. That is to say, Atsugai shits on any Futton and Mist, and her Lava can be dodged by someone who is much faster than Kakashi at his top speed. Kakuzu is just a terrible match-up for her. Inb4 Lava almost caught Madara, in the VIZ scan he said it was so pitiful it wasn't even worth absorbing [

You must be registered for see links

].

 

[Selan]

Kakuzu literally rapes her. Fuuton: Atsugai swaps away the acid mist, Yoton is dodged, Suiton is negged with Doton: Domu or used to damage the Mizukage itself with Suiton + Raiton. Raiton: Gian kills Mei or Jiongu threads neg her.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Look at how far to the right the water pillar extends. That Katon barely evaporated any of it and it was released by Madara, a person whose Katon power is unrivalled. Yea, no. No chance Katon+Futon will do much at all to her massive Water sprout which extends drastically, Kakuzu's combo is not even insanely big.

You must be registered for see links

Ice thread makes a decent scaling to show that Mei's Suiton is basically summoning/Buijuu size as any Kage/S rank Element ninjutsu "blast" via Hiruzen and Kakuzu per say. Madara's Katon power doesnt begin to prove that she can beat Kakuzu wind combo, it just means it will over power Kakuzu's Katon.

 

[Thesaurus]

You must be registered for see links

Ice thread makes a decent scaling to show that Mei's Suiton is basically summoning/Buijuu size as any Kage/S rank Element ninjutsu "blast" via Hiruzen and Kakuzu per say. Madara's Katon power doesnt begin to prove that she can beat Kakuzu wind combo, it just means it will over power Kakuzu's Katon.

That is some really bad scaling imo, he probably did it mistakingly. You can't compare the size of an object that's 50 meters aways with the size of an object 5 meters away. That's like saying my hand is 2.4 times bigger than the sun because when I took a picture with both of them in it and scaled them according to their pixels math said so. Mei's Suiton is vastly larger than a Biju sized summon, vastly.

HERE:

You must be registered for see images

74/24=3.1, 3.1x1.79meters=5.549 meter Susano. 250/74=18.8 meters Fire Jutsu

Fireball is 44pixels at full completion and eventual contact of Mei's Suiton. 44 pixels=18.8 meters in that panel. 246 pixels is horizontal distance of only what we can see of Mei's water pillar. 246/44=6. 18.8 metersx6=112 meters horizontal distance. 195/44.6=88.2 meters vertically. Hachibi has been calculated at 118 meters, 102 meters and 31 meters. So knowing this, you can take the mean or choose to be biased and take 118. Bunta has been calced at 100 meters barring the 100% Kyuubi incident. So if anything, Mei's water sprout is larger since we don't see the full thing on panel, it's cut off. Inb4 Kakuzu still wins.

 

[Zexion~]

Holy ****, Tbh Madara's flame style wasn't even that big in that scan at least, didn't tower too high over Tsunade.

Meanwhile Kakuzu's was about on par with the tree's from his battlefield (without it even reaching full strength)

Which dwarfed Kakuzu and Hidan much more than the Katon did

You must be registered for see links

And you're completely ignoring the fact that it has fuuton added to it, which isn't supposed to up its size it also up its flames by an exponential rate, while also oxidizing it providing a greater burst so to speak by the flames themselves meaning it also has quite a punch to it. It doesn't even have to get rid of the suiton pillar it just blows right through it, unless she can add wind to it to negate the force of the firestorm/explosion .-. So basically while the heat of the flames being increased does provide an option to sort of evaporate and make the suitons it goes up against smaller, ultimately its the force the wind provides that just allows the combination to plow right through any suiton it goes up against, and since Suiton requires everything to be in tact for it to be useful, it is literally useless against this jutsu. All who think otherwise because of its size which (isn't even that impressive) are fools.

Edit- Whoops, forgot ... the temperature increase also negates the suiton putting the fire out, giving the jutsu time to blow right through the suitons...

 

[Brother Numpsay]

That is some really bad scaling imo, he probably did it mistakingly. You can't compare the size of an object that's 50 meters aways with the size of an object 5 meters away. That's like saying my hand is 2.4 times bigger than the sun because when I took a picture with both of them in it and scaled them according to their pixels math said so. Mei's Suiton is vastly larger than a Biju sized summon, vastly.

HERE:

You must be registered for see images

74/24=3.1, 3.1x1.79meters=5.549 meter Susano. 250/74=18.8 meters Fire Jutsu

Fireball is 44pixels at full completion and eventual contact of Mei's Suiton. 44 pixels=18.8 meters in that panel. 246 pixels is horizontal distance of only what we can see of Mei's water pillar. 246/44=6. 18.8 metersx6=112 meters horizontal distance. 195/44.6=88.2 meters vertically. Hachibi has been calculated at 118 meters, 102 meters and 31 meters. So knowing this, you can take the mean or choose to be biased and take 118. Bunta has been calced at 100 meters barring the 100% Kyuubi incident. So if anything, Mei's water sprout is larger since we don't see the full thing on panel, it's cut off. Inb4 Kakuzu still wins.

I'm no expert in pixel scaling argument so I can't properly defend Ice's here. At the same time I still dont see the big deal with Ice's comparison's conclusion. I really like to keep things simple: If you really compare Madara (ribcage or not) to a Buijuu you would notice that the Pillar is not that far off here, since it covered as much space all around Madara and his Katon. At best the scaling of Pillar can cover width of a Buijuu, or a bit more.

 

[Thesaurus]

Holy ****, Tbh Madara's flame style wasn't even that big in that scan at least, didn't tower too high over Tsunade.

Meanwhile Kakuzu's was about on par with the tree's from his battlefield (without it even reaching full strength)

Which dwarfed Kakuzu and Hidan much more than the Katon did

You must be registered for see links

And you're completely ignoring the fact that it has fuuton added to it, which isn't supposed to up its size it also up its flames by an exponential rate, while also oxidizing it providing a greater burst so to speak by the flames themselves meaning it also has quite a punch to it. It doesn't even have to get rid of the suiton pillar it just blows right through it, unless she can add wind to it to negate the force of the firestorm/explosion .-. So basically while the heat of the flames being increased does provide an option to sort of evaporate and make the suitons it goes up against smaller, ultimately its the force the wind provides that just allows the combination to plow right through any suiton it goes up against, and since Suiton requires everything to be in tact for it to be useful, it is literally useless against this jutsu. All who think otherwise because of its size which (isn't even that impressive) are fools.

It doesn't pack a strong force like a normal Futon because the Katon is using the oxygen to burn its flames and become hotter/burn faster. So no, it won't be ploughing through anything if it can't evaporate the amount of Suiton present. You can clearly see that when Kakashi used his Suiton against Futon/Katon combo, it was not affected by any force [

You must be registered for see links

]. And this is merely a non-affinity Suiton which was like 3-4 times the size of Kakashi at most. Not even comparable to 100 meter+ Suitons like water pillar. Only because Kakashi's Suiton was too weak doesn't mean Mei's will be too weak when she has far more proficiency in Suiton.
@ bold Suiton is cohesive and this is no pure Atsugai we are speaking of. It doesn't pack a punch like you are saying, since the Katon instantly fuses with the oxygen in the futon to burn its flames. Already showed you the size in a calculation, clearly it is not supposed to be in the same sentence as 'small'.

 

[Thesaurus]

I'm no expert in pixel scaling argument so I can't properly defend Ice's here. At the same time I still dont see the big deal with Ice's comparison's conclusion. I really like to keep things simple: If you really compare Madara (ribcage or not) to a Buijuu you would notice that the Pillar is not that far off here, since it covered as much space all around Madara and his Katon. At best the scaling of Pillar can cover width of a Buijuu, or a bit more.

But that's exactly what I am saying. I said it's comparable to the size of Hachibi in his high-ball scalings. Ice came to the conclusion that the Suiton was a mere 24 meters tall. That's 1/5th of the size I am suggesting in my more accurate scalings. So there's clearly a problem with his scaling as that's like a 80% margin of error. That size clearly distinguishes between stopping any Futon+Katon and dying to one.

 

[Icelerate]

None of you examples are good to give reasons on why Kakuzu can't do it. Madara example is bad because, Viz states he found it not worthy to be absorbed, which is why he dodged it "last sec" in the first place. Your Sasuke example is not good either. Im not going to bring up Karin, but the very fact that Sasuke challenged even Chojuro attack: Can we conclude that Sasuke "needed ribcage to block" Chojuro's blitz? The same argument can be made that Chojuro blitz Sasuke and needed to result to ribcage, instead of dodging his attack.

Okay I'll consider the Madara example to be bad. Here's another example,

You must be registered for see links

. The

You must be registered for see links

than the remaining distance between Madara and the lava he is about to land on when Mei uses her second batch of lava. This goes to show that Mei's lava can travel a much larger distance than someone punched into the ground by Ay.

Comparing Mei's situation with Chojuro makes no sense considering Sasuke already had ribcage susanoo on at that time so the two scenarios are different.

I dont know how you got to @bold conclusion when we have feats that Kakuzu was able to catch up with Kakashi Raikiri blitz to Hidan and smacked him right in front of him.

Hidan was already immobilized with Shikamaru's shadows so Kakashi wasn't blitzing anyone. He was running at normal speeds whereas Kakuzu clearly used shunshin to get to Kakashi. Both the manga and the databook portray Kakashi to be above Kakuzu in anything speed related. He has a 3 tomoe sharingan which further increases his reaction.

Again how do you lead to the conclusion that Water Pillar beats Katon+Futon when Kakashi outright made a general statement, not specifically to him that Suiton is not enough to beat the combo. It needed the power of Naruto and Yamato (which scales the same as Mei) to cancel this combo, not even overpowering it's advantage. Yet Yamato combo I easily see overpowering Mei's water pillar.

Kakashi was referring to his own suiton as that was what failed (

You must be registered for see links

). Kakashi wouldn't have used suiton if he knew that no suiton stands a chance against Kakuzu's katon + fuuton combo. It makes no sense to claim that no matter how powerful a suiton is, katon + fuuton combo would overpower it as that is a no limits fallacy and holds no logic. Yamato is an inferior suiton user to Mei and Naruto's fuuton rasengan is also weaker than Mei's suiton so in no way shape or form is a combination of theirs overpowering Mei. You already admit that their combination scales up to Mei so how is it easily overpowering Mei's water pillar? Kakashi's water wall managed to

You must be registered for see links

even though it wasn't strong enough to extinguish the flames and Mei's water pillar is many times stronger than Kakashi's water wall.

Not to mention that Mei can

You must be registered for see links

for more than a few seconds so the water pillar can get enhanced even further.

Water being more dense then Wind is irrelevant when Kakuzu's Wind is superior in Pressure by far.

Water pillar is meant to defend against Atsuugai so Atsuugai having more pressure doesn't mean much. I'm pretty sure Hidan's body doesn't exert pressure yet he took no damage from that attack. Ribcage susanoo doesn't exert pressure unlike Tsunade's punch yet it defended against Tsunade's punch just fine.

How is Gian piercing feats relevant when it outright shown to = Raikiri. Either way you made a good point on what happens when suiton and raiton mix. Whats comes to question if the conduction goes the opposite direct, to electrocute the Suiton user, then when a user or team mixes both of suiton and raiton together, where they're safe.

Raikiri doesn't have the feats to pierce all the way through Mei's water pillar either. Mei is

You must be registered for see links

while using the water dragon which means the suiton is travelling away from herself, so as the raiton spreads throughout the water dragon, Mei won't get electrocuted as the raiton will never reach her. Conduction doesn't happen in one direction, it spreads out throughout so there shouldn't be a difference if an ally does it or if an enemy does it.

 

[Zexion~]

It doesn't pack a strong force like a normal Futon because the Katon is using the oxygen to burn its flames and become hotter/burn faster. So no, it won't be ploughing through anything if it can't evaporate the amount of Suiton present. You can clearly see that when Kakashi used his Suiton against Futon/Katon combo, it was not affected by any force [

You must be registered for see links

]. And this is merely a non-affinity Suiton which was like 3-4 times the size of Kakashi at most. Not even comparable to 100 meter+ Suitons like water pillar. Only because Kakashi

Good thing it was a smaller Katon + Fuuton combination too, lmfao anyways what are you saying? The heat made it smaller, and then it plowed right through it. Bruh, what do you think flames produced when they get oxidized? Force, especially when applied in such a rapid fashion as firing a fuuton at it, its basically explosion level with a fire-storm...Now since the Katon and Fuuton are being applied at the same exact time in the beginning its force is going to be immense, as it has the basic force (already stated to have great explosion damage)

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Add the combustion that comes with the wind style and its plowing through any suiton that gets in its way.

Deleted you're other shit on accident but it didn't mean much anyways as you have no idea what you're saying :lol

 

[Brother Numpsay]

But that's exactly what I am saying. I said it's comparable to the size of Hachibi in his high-ball scalings. Ice came to the conclusion that the Suiton was a mere 24 meters tall. That's 1/5th of the size I am suggesting in my more accurate scalings. So there's clearly a problem with his scaling as that's like a 80% margin of error. That size clearly distinguishes between stopping any Futon+Katon and dying to one.

I thought 24 meters is about the heights of Buijuu's so thats what I assumed was pretty accurate ( me comparing by googing images of things 24-25 meters tall).

Kakuzu's katon+futon can reach that same width and height[

You must be registered for see links

] considering how tall those trees are (Buijuu tall)

 

[Icelerate]

That is some really bad scaling imo, he probably did it mistakingly. You can't compare the size of an object that's 50 meters aways with the size of an object 5 meters away. That's like saying my hand is 2.4 times bigger than the sun because when I took a picture with both of them in it and scaled them according to their pixels math said so. Mei's Suiton is vastly larger than a Biju sized summon, vastly.

HERE:

You must be registered for see images

74/24=3.1, 3.1x1.79meters=5.549 meter Susano. 250/74=18.8 meters Fire Jutsu

Fireball is 44pixels at full completion and eventual contact of Mei's Suiton. 44 pixels=18.8 meters in that panel. 246 pixels is horizontal distance of only what we can see of Mei's water pillar. 246/44=6. 18.8 metersx6=112 meters horizontal distance. 195/44.6=88.2 meters vertically. Hachibi has been calculated at 118 meters, 102 meters and 31 meters. So knowing this, you can take the mean or choose to be biased and take 118. Bunta has been calced at 100 meters barring the 100% Kyuubi incident. So if anything, Mei's water sprout is larger since we don't see the full thing on panel, it's cut off. Inb4 Kakuzu still wins.

I think you're off. In the panel where Madara first fires off his katon, his katon is noticeably larger than his susanoo but in the next panel, his katon and susanoo are roughly equal in size.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Okay I'll consider the Madara example to be bad. Here's another example,

You must be registered for see links

. The

You must be registered for see links

than the remaining distance between Madara and the lava he is about to land on when Mei uses her second batch of lava. This goes to show that Mei's lava can travel a much larger distance than someone punched into the ground by Ay.

I still dont get the point on the Madara. She used it, Madara left it, Ay pushes him back to the area, which Madara needed to protect himself then. How does this prove anything here.

Comparing Mei's situation with Chojuro makes no sense considering Sasuke already had ribcage susanoo on at that time so the two scenarios are different.

Well your premise shows he can decide to turn on and off Susanoo at any time. So he can decide to block or dodge.

Hidan was already immobilized with Shikamaru's shadows so Kakashi wasn't blitzing anyone. He was running at normal speeds whereas Kakuzu clearly used shunshin to get to Kakashi. Both the manga and the databook portray Kakashi to be above Kakuzu in anything speed related. He has a 3 tomoe sharingan which further increases his reaction.

Umm ok, no. Kakashi had full intention to finish off Hidan. There's no evidence that states or shows Kakashi "oh let me end this now, by moving a normal speed". That makes zero sense. The very fact that Kakashi speed> Kakauzu and caught him even with 3 Tome on is a very good feat, the fact, which shows these Lava gets dodged to someone in Kakashi' range of speed and reaction.

Kakashi was referring to his own suiton as that was what failed (

You must be registered for see links

). Kakashi wouldn't have used suiton if he knew that no suiton stands a chance against Kakuzu's katon + fuuton combo. It makes no sense to claim that no matter how powerful a suiton is, katon + fuuton combo would overpower it as that is a no limits fallacy and holds no logic. Yamato is an inferior suiton user to Mei and Naruto's fuuton rasengan is also weaker than Mei's suiton so in no way shape or form is a combination of theirs overpowering Mei. You already admit that their combination scales up to Mei so how is it easily overpowering Mei's water pillar? Kakashi's water wall managed to

You must be registered for see links

even though it wasn't strong enough to extinguish the flames and Mei's water pillar is many times stronger than Kakashi's water wall.

Not to mention that Mei can

You must be registered for see links

for more than a few seconds so the water pillar can get enhanced even further.

Viz words it better so Im gonna need to find it soon.

Im not using no limit fallcy, I am basing it off to what Mei's Suiton is capable of. Im sure Kakuzu's can take care of a Buiju Size Suiton if both attacks are the same size. Not claiming it can do a Suiton that would be like Juubi size of something.

Ill wait till I find viz concerning Kakashi's that combo, either way that wasnt Kakuzu's best feat with that combo, as we seen it here[

You must be registered for see links

], which is way bigger.

Is there proof for your claim that Mei>Yamato (not talking about hand speed and efficiency but as logic of exchange from the power of both jutsus users) in Suiton? Have you seen Yamato Suiton during Naruto's training? Biggest width of Suiton we have witness thus far. Debate if she can solo thier attack 1v1 all you want but a combination would always be superior here.

P.S. Mei uses pre existing water to use another Suiton attack, not adding more water.

Water pillar is meant to defend against Atsuugai so Atsuugai having more pressure doesn't mean much. I'm pretty sure Hidan's body doesn't exert pressure yet he took no damage from that attack. Ribcage susanoo doesn't exert pressure unlike Tsunade's punch yet it defended against Tsunade's punch just fine.

What you mean? A force applied perpendicular to the surface of an object is very important to know what happens to when it encounters it. Lets not throw Hidan in this, as manga already states his immorality defy the damage done from the tech. It pushed and crackes rib cage so not a good example. Kakuzu's Futon against Mei's it will push water along Mei herself.

Raikiri doesn't have the feats to pierce all the way through Mei's water pillar either. Mei is

You must be registered for see links

while using the water dragon which means the suiton is travelling away from herself, so as the raiton spreads throughout the water dragon, Mei won't get electrocuted as the raiton will never reach her. Conduction doesn't happen in one direction, it spreads out throughout so there shouldn't be a difference if an ally does it or if an enemy does it.

Ill drop this point, Raiton isn't good for this match up.

 

[Thesaurus]

Good thing it was a smaller Katon + Fuuton combination too, lmfao anyways what are you saying? The heat made it smaller, and then it plowed right through it. Bruh, what do you think flames produced when they get oxidized? Force, especially when applied in such a rapid fashion as firing a fuuton at it, its basically explosion level with a fire-storm...Now since the Katon and Fuuton are being applied at the same exact time in the beginning its force is going to be immense, as it has the basic force (already stated to have great explosion damage)

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Add the combustion that comes with the wind style and its plowing through any suiton that gets in its way.

Deleted you're other shit on accident but it didn't mean much anyways as you have no idea what you're saying :lol

Um what the hell. It doesn't matter if it's a small Futon+Katon, that was an extremely small non-Affinity Suiton from Kakashi which wasn't pushed back. Yes, the fire was too much for a weaker and smaller Suiton from a non-proficient Suiton user.
@bold What?........... Flames now produce force when oxidised? I sincerely hope you are not a chemistry student, because that is not remotely how it works. Fire oxidation does not produce force, it merely produces more flames. You are talking about explosions which are completely different as they release shockwaves, they are not pure oxidation. And no, we saw what Futon's addition to Katon did to Kakashi's Suiton in terms of force; absolutely nothing. Inb4 that small scale argument again; both of them were small scale so the result should be the same as you suggest.

And here you go again with your databook scans, :lol. We saw what happened when this amazingly powerful explosive combustive force made contact with a non-affinity small scale Suiton right? Barely anything in terms of pressure. Sure, if manga physics says it has more force from the addition of more fire (more oxygen) then it does. But it has absolutely nothing to do with the force of the Futon itself, as that was never suggested. You can't say it's as strong as a Futon pressure wise. You can simply say it's stronger, but you can't quantify said force increase so it still doesn't have any relevance versus Mei's Water pillar.

I thought 24 meters is about the heights of Buijuu's so thats what I assumed was pretty accurate ( me comparing by googing images of things 24-25 meters tall).

Kakuzu's katon+futon can reach that same width and height[

You must be registered for see links

] considering how tall those trees are (Buijuu tall)

Nah. And Not a chance, those trees are like 30-40 meters max. Not going to bother to scale them though. Here you see how badly Hachibi dwarfs trees [

You must be registered for see links

], although he's looking quite bigger than normal there. And FRS would add far more to any Katon than Kakuzu's own Futon. But no, Kakuzu's Futon+Katon<<<<<<<Mei's Water pillar.

I think you're off. In the panel where Madara first fires off his katon, his katon is noticeably larger than his susanoo but in the next panel, his katon and susanoo are roughly equal in size.

Nah man, Madara was in the air in that panel [

You must be registered for see links

]. Madara is closer and higher up in the air from the angle of that panel, so the further away from 'us' the fire goes, the smaller it will look. Madara would remain the same size, so as the Katon gets smaller it approaches a size that is comparable to Madara. So no, it's very correct in terms of scaling.