EMS Madara vs 3rd Raikage

Brother Numpsay

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The fact that Itachi had to switch from V2 [ ] to V3 again [ ] proves that he can't use the spiritual weapons in V2 (skeletal form). Despite that, he cut Kimimaro's bones in V2, the skeletal form. So it's my scan against your mere claim. Guess who's right at this point? Scan is canon unless disproved.

Itachi wasnt switching, he was trying to maintain Susanoo at the best of his condition.

Saying Susanoo can shape any range of their weapon is more of a mere claim here.

Plus my interpret so happen to follow how the anime interprets the manga (Itachi encountering the bones with Totsuka). So I dont see why I should believe my interpretation is as wrong as the ones on production here.
 

MickNerks

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Raikage wins. Madara without the PS and Kurama doesnt have anything to damage the raikage.

For those saying Susanoo sword can damage, please show me how a sword can when a TBB couldnt do anything to him.
 

Strict

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Itachi wasnt switching, he was trying to maintain Susanoo at the best of his condition.

Saying Susanoo can shape any range of their weapon is more of a mere claim here.

Plus my interpret so happen to follow how the anime interprets the manga (Itachi encountering the bones with Totsuka). So I dont see why I should believe my interpretation is as wrong as the ones on production here.
You don't want to accept the truth, so you try to pull out some bs. You clearly see how Itachi's Susanoo forms back to V2, leaving the skeleton. Yet it is fully transformed back into V3 when holding the Yata shield. It is a fact. Stop arguing against canon scans.

And using the Anime as a legit source is pretty much bullshit as it partially doesn't even follow Manga logic. In the Anime, Deva-Path used Suiton to flood Konoha, used Mokuton and cutting Shinra Tensei without an interval. And you want to tell me the Anime is a legit source. The Manga is the only legit source and it didn't show Itachi using Totsuka. So stop it.

Susanoo has shown to create diverse weapons. Whether blades (by Sasuke, though arrows are his primary weapon), projectiles or some dagger-like weapon (used by Itachi). And please, don't come up with the bullshit that Sasuke's Susanoo =/= Itachi's Susanoo. Susanoo is the mere manifestation of the user's Chakra.

Manga fact is, Itachi can't use the spiritual weapons with Susanoo's skeletal form. Deal with it or leave. Gonna go sleeping.
 

Brother Numpsay

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You don't want to accept the truth, so you try to pull out some bs. You clearly see how Itachi's Susanoo forms back to V2, leaving the skeleton. Yet it is fully transformed back into V3 when holding the Yata shield. It is a fact. Stop arguing against canon scans.

How am I pulling out bs. Did Itachi not get sick and power down due to the stress? He doesnt even need Yata to tank explosion so dont bring up excuses that it was necessary to do what he needed to do. He was sick, we know that. It hindered him, which is why he powered down in the first place. And he upped his Susanoo to the best of his conditions.

And using the Anime as a legit source is pretty much bullshit as it partially doesn't even follow Manga logic. In the Anime, Deva-Path used Suiton to flood Konoha, used Mokuton and cutting Shinra Tensei without an interval. And you want to tell me the Anime is a legit source. The Manga is the only legit source and it didn't show Itachi using Totsuka. So stop it.

Um yes it does. It follows the screen time that the manga produce. We can go by our own reasoning that they're scenes they added themselves while scenes that happen in the manga. So lets use reasoning that we are basing it off to what they actually took from the manga panels and draw/animated out. Not the extra irrelevant footage.

Susanoo has shown to create diverse weapons. Whether blades (by Sasuke, though arrows are his primary weapon), projectiles or some dagger-like weapon (used by Itachi). And please, don't come up with the bullshit that Sasuke's Susanoo =/= Itachi's Susanoo. Susanoo is the mere manifestation of the user's Chakra.

There is no argument here. Each Susanoo, as you said, is base on the manifestation of the users chakra. Each character has its own persona, which is why each Susanoo carries different blade from each other. No evidence that each Susanoo user can make the same blades as other users.

The only thing they share are projectiles. And even then this argument shoots your own foot. We seen Itachi powering up to V3 to use Yasaka Magatama while rib cage on Madara's behalf. Does that mean Itachi can only use Yasaka Magatama in V3?

Manga fact is, Itachi can't use the spiritual weapons with Susanoo's skeletal form. Deal with it or leave. Gonna go sleeping.

You cant prove or disprove the claim, since there's no evidence that Itachi can make a bigger dagger.
 
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RedRobin

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There is literally no evidence the 3rd survived a TBB. The fight was close combat as seen by Hachibi saying the 3rd cut all his tails off , meaning the 3rd was jumping all over Hachibi making hits, there is no way Hachibi could use a TBB at this range. Plus if he had survived a TBB then Hachibi wouldnt be so .
 

Beans2

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Juubi sized Katon will roast him. And why should piercing his eyes (while he's paralyzed by a Genjutsu) not be an option? So are we suggesting that Madara, in a non plot fight, will say, I have no way to harm his body but I won't pierce his eyes, that's not in-character. As dumb as an opportunity may sounds, it is an opportunity.

And as for Susanoo's power; Kimimaro's bones are as hard as steel and in addition were strengthened by Kabuto's Sage Mode; yet, Itachi's v2 Susanoo easily cut through a row of them. Of course, Raikage's body may be harder, but not that much to say that he won't receive wounds. Just to keep in mind how hard Kimimaro's bones are; the Samurais chakra enhanced blades barely cut half through one bone (though Mifune tied in a clash with Sasuke's Raiton enhanced sword), Susanoo cut through a row of those bones which were probably even enhanced with Sage Mode. And btw, Temari's Fuuton (which she combined with the Fuuton of some alliance fodders) made some deep cuts in the Raikage's body. The Rasenshuriken maybe didn't more damage because it, in the first place, is designed to make damage on a cellular level.

So cutting through a row of with Senchakra enhanced bones of Kimimaro = at least leaving some deep cuts on Raikage's body. Susanoo's hit must be a dozen times stronger than Chakra enhanced blades, as, as I said, a Chakra enhanced blade couldn't even cut through one bone.

Summary:

-Temari leaves deep cuts on the Raikage's body with her Fuuton, which was strengthened by some alliance fodders (maybe the Rasenshuriken didn't because it is in the first place designed to do damage on a cellular level).

-A Chakra enhanced blade can't cut through one bone of Kimimaro.

-Susanoo cut through a row of Kimimaro's bones which were enhanced with Senchakra. And Senchakra enhances the resistance multiple times.

How can you even begin to draw a comparison between Kimimaro's bones and the Third Raikage which are worlds apart in durability? Itachi cutting Kimimaro's bones is not conclusive evidence that a V4 Susanoo can harm the Raikage. Not saying it isn't likely but that's a faulty comparison.
 

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I'm not sure if you are joking when you claim that sword was Totsuka. Totsuka gourd is massive [ ]. It's quite clear there's no massive gourd in the panel [ ]. Nor is there any proof Totsuka is usable in v2.
 

TRE MERCER

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Irrelevant. Shukaku using the sand on his body to make the pyramid has jack shit to do with him physically overpowering Shukaku. That 9 Bijuu tail slap broke Susanoo and only took Madara's arm. So it is close to the bare minimum needed to break the Susanoo. If it were much much more than what is regularly needed, then Madara would've been obliterated.
Actually it does sense he used his body and his arms to hold that construct together therefore he used his physical strength. @BOLD- I need proof of this claim.

Zero proof.
Let me ask you a question if the 3rd Raikage was a big as Madara's PS would a Rasenshuriken do the same amount of damage to him?



What a fail comparison. We aren't talking about Susanoo putting all it's weight on the other Susanoo. We are talking about Susanoo punching another Susanoo. Then there's the fact that it's because ice blocks are not even that durable, so the weight of something much larger is all that is needed to wreck it.
Im not talking about Susanoo put all it's weight on another Susanoo. Even if to two pieces of Ice were launched at each other the house hold ice cube would be shattered upon impact same with the v4 Susanoo size means stronger and more durable. Choji was a perfect example but you chose to completely ignore that i see.

Uh, in KCM? Nope.
Yes in KCM he help back an angry Bijuu full strength with chakra arms alone.




There is nothing to counter. You are stating one thing, and saying it leads to another without actually getting evidence. When you have a real argument then I'll provide you with a real counter. The second sentence starts off with literally no evidence from your side, so there is nothing to address.
Once again you ignore the argument and selectively choose which parts to counter your clearly running out of none sense to say.

Prove it. Or stop posting.
I've proven it multiple times already.






Where are the feats? Where is the proof? Where is your evidence? Not to mention I said YRS wouldn't kill him. Never said it wouldn't pierce him. Don't twist my words to make yourself look less idiotic than you usually make yourself look.
Just answer this question can or cannot Madara v4 Susanoo dish out more damaged than a Rasenshuriken? Also it was Kurama durability thread not what can or cannot kill Kurama. Kurama is a bijuu which means he's immortal that means he cannot die quit trying to play dumb if Kurama head is split in half he's done for therfore he wasn't durable enough to tank it gtfoh.




That's a hole dumbass. Lmao. Is that not a hole?
This was a slash not a hole stop being foolish.

Oh wait, it is. It's just a big one. So please stop nitpicking over irrelevant details.
I had to take them down a notch because you clearly tried to overrate it to make your argument look better i just had to shut that down real quick fast and in a hurry.


Based off of feats. There's little to no reason to believe that V4 is that strong. Just like there is little to no reason for me to keep taking you seriously when all you can do is moan when I don't agree with your opinions. Don't care for your opinions. I care for arguments backed with factual evidence.
All that posting and you still didn't back your claim up l00l bye Felicia


The hideout being large literally doesn't change a thing I said. Is it as large as the Mountains that BD vaporizes? Nope. So you have no point here. Once again.
You couldn't even see the mountains the Bijuudama blew up so where is your point?



Never said you did. It's called a comparison.
Actually you did when you said in there some evidence that goes as far as saying he could he tank a Bijuudama once again i had to shut that down real quick.




That has jack shit to do with durability, which is what we are talking about here.
Actually it does since you think if he was alive he would have gotten right back up and once again i had to shut that horrible logic down.




Zero proof.
Is proof needed for every claim? There is this thing called common sense you should use it sometime.


Please explain this and how you came up with this LMAO i can a sure you it's all speculation.
I can't take it can you prove that a Kurama size v4 Susanoo can't dish out more damage than a FRS?





With his cloak on? Yup. Without it? Nope. And you've given me more reason to believe that you can't formulate a real argument than you have to believe the assertions you've been making.
Jesus help this inside kid. Sasuke standing susanoo can dish out more damage than a Rasenshuriken but Madara v4 Standing Susanoo can't?



Cause you are still replying. Smh.
Im replying because i believe Madara wins your replying to make yourself to look even more stupid that you already did after saying all these sig worth quotes.
 

Brother Numpsay

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I'm not sure if you are joking when you claim that sword was Totsuka. Totsuka gourd is massive [ ]. It's quite clear there's no massive gourd in the panel [ ]. Nor is there any proof Totsuka is usable in v2.

Not joking. I wasnt going by certainty since, as I said to Strict, you can't prove or disprove it. And first post" Im sure" shows it. The range of Itachi's arm, to what he is wielding is unknown and impossible to know. So I'm basing my evidence and interpretation on the weapons Itachi possesses.

Unless there is evidence that Itachi can make a longer/bigger mere blade then his dagger then Im more then happy to be impressed and concede.

Till then, I can easily rebuttal your point here.
 

KidGamer65

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Actually it does sense he used his body and his arms to hold that construct together therefore he used his physical strength. @BOLD- I need proof of this claim.

He wasn't holding it with physical strength, so once again. You don't have a point. Stop grasping at straws pal.

The bold is pure common sense. If Susanoo can only take 100 pts of damage and an attack that deals 100 pts of damage hits it, what will happen? Oh wait. 100s cancel each other out, thus Madara takes 0 damage. If the attack deals 1000 pts of damage. Subtract, and then Madara takes 900 pts of damage since Susanoo soaked up 100 pts.

That is basic math right there. Very basic math.


Let me ask you a question if the 3rd Raikage was a big as Madara's PS would a Rasenshuriken do the same amount of damage to him?

If the 3rd Raikage was as big as PS, he'd tank FRS w/ zero difficulty since his durability would increase with his size. Has jack shit to do with physical strength though.



Im not talking about Susanoo put all it's weight on another Susanoo. Even if to two pieces of Ice were launched at each other the house hold ice cube would be shattered upon impact same with the v4 Susanoo size means stronger and more durable. Choji was a perfect example but you chose to completely ignore that i see.

No...lmao. The ice would push the smaller ice cube away. They wouldn't shatter on contact. Susanoo and Choji being stronger as they get bigger doesn't prove that V4 Susanoo can smash a smaller one with it's fist. Lmao. How many times do I have to explain why your logic is piss poor before it finally gets through to your peanut sized brain?

Yes in KCM he help back an angry Bijuu full strength with chakra arms alone.

Which still doesn't prove your point regardless.



Once again you ignore the argument and selectively choose which parts to counter your clearly running out of none sense to say.


I've proven it multiple times already.

You don't have any points to counter. Just shaky ass argumentation that I've already revealed the glaring flaw of. When you have real proof, please get back at me. Don't care for your opinion. Not now, not ever.




Just answer this question can or cannot Madara v4 Susanoo dish out more damaged than a Rasenshuriken?


With it's fists? Nope. With it's swords? Who knows? That's what you are here to prove. Not me.


Also it was Kurama durability thread not what can or cannot kill Kurama. Kurama is a bijuu which means he's immortal that means he cannot die quit trying to play dumb if Kurama head is split in half he's done for therfore he wasn't durable enough to tank it gtfoh.

What in the hell are you ven talking about dumbass kid? Who said that Kurama would get split in half? I said that he wouldn't be killed. Period. When the hell did YRS hitting Kurama automatically mean that it will split it in half?

Please stop replying to me. You sound like a retard.


This was a slash not a hole stop being foolish.


A hole is an opening in something dumbass. There was an opening in Susanoo. Thus a hole. A "slash" refers to a type of motion made with a sword. Lmao. You sound dumber and dumber by the minute. Stop nitpicking on irrelevant details, especially when you only make yourself sound like a retard when you do so.

I had to take them down a notch because you clearly tried to overrate it to make your argument look better i just had to shut that down real quick fast and in a hurry.

Once again. You sound dumb.

All that posting and you still didn't back your claim up l00l bye Felicia

I haven't made any claim that I haven't backed up. I'm waiting for the proof that V4 can hurt the Raikage while he's wearing his armor w/ Magatama, fists and his sword. "Common Sense" isn't an answer.

You couldn't even see the mountains the Bijuudama blew up so where is your point?




Actually you did when you said in there some evidence that goes as far as saying he could he tank a Bijuudama once again i had to shut that down real quick.


Now we are going to lie about what happened in the Manga? Lmao. The only thing you need to shut down is your PC, permanently. We have enough morons on the internet.




Actually it does since you think if he was alive he would have gotten right back up and once again i had to shut that horrible logic down.

Once again. Has jack shit to do with durability. If he died because of FRS, it'd be because of the damage to his chakra network. Hell. There isn't even any proof he'd die, and there's plenty of evidence he'd survive since:

1. Negligible damage to his body in his Edo State.

2. Destruction of the chakra network=/=Death.

Please stop replying to me. Every time I read one of your points, I feel my brain cells dying individually.


Is proof needed for every claim? There is this thing called common sense you should use it sometime.

-Talks about me not having proof.
-Says he doesn't need proof.

Lmao. Gtfo. Monkey ass....

I can't take it can you prove that a Kurama size v4 Susanoo can't dish out more damage than a FRS?


Don't need to. Nothing in the Manga supports that it can, and you've failed to prove that it can. End of story kiddo.



Jesus help this inside kid. Sasuke standing susanoo can dish out more damage than a Rasenshuriken but Madara v4 Standing Susanoo can't?

That "Standing Susanoo" Sasuke used is much stronger than his regular one. Near his PS. When you can prove that Madara's V4 is on par with Sasuke's PS, then we can talk. Until then, get that shit out of here.

As for proof that it's stronger. Sasuke's PS and Naruto's BM Avatar equal each other in speed, physical strength and durability as shown at the valley of the End. Take away the Rikudo boost from both and you are left with BM and PS. Thus BM and PS equal each other in speed, strength and durability. The only other Susanoo that fits that bill is the one Sasuke used against Juubito.

But I fully expect you to whine about "speculation" even though it's not speculation. It's simple powerscaling.



Im replying because i believe Madara wins your replying to make yourself to look even more stupid that you already did after saying all these sig worth quotes.


When you can prove your points and not talk out of your ass, then we can talk. But considering all you're good at in life is making yourself look like a retard, guess I shouldn't expect anything from you. Join the circus, at least you'll get paid for making yourself look like a retard. :lmao:
 

LuckyMan

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There is literally no evidence the 3rd survived a TBB. The fight was close combat as seen by Hachibi saying the 3rd cut all his tails off , meaning the 3rd was jumping all over Hachibi making hits, there is no way Hachibi could use a TBB at this range. Plus if he had survived a TBB then Hachibi wouldnt be so .

So Gyuki exhausted all its chakra through a physical fight???
 

KingHashirama

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Summary:

-Temari leaves deep cuts on the Raikage's body with her Fuuton, which was strengthened by some alliance fodders (maybe the Rasenshuriken didn't because it is in the first place designed to do damage on a cellular level).

-A Chakra enhanced blade can't cut through one bone of Kimimaro.

-Susanoo cut through a row of Kimimaro's bones which were enhanced with Senchakra. And Senchakra enhances the resistance multiple times.

@Bold, nah the Rasenshuriken, made him use edo regeneration also, he had cracks all over his body mid area all messed up.

So Gyuki exhausted all its chakra through a physical fight???

and it was retarded enough to TBBs, that would damage him also?

Where is the proof? That's all I care about. Not your statements.

- Is given proof

- Still asks proof.


- But bases his argument on fan-fic durability.
 
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LuckyMan

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Pretty much and being injured due to all the 3rd's attacks.

Doesn't make much sense. They both fought till they exhausted themselves (and we know Sandaime can go 72 hours non stop) and passed out. It makes zero sense that Gyuki didn't try to kill Sandaime with a TBB if they fought for so long. He's smart enough to realize his tentacles and physical punches ain't doing jack to Sandaime and to use TBB.

Now I'm not saying Sandaime tanked them for sure because I don't know that but there's more evidence pointing to that he did than he didn't.
 

RedRobin

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Doesn't make much sense. They both fought till they exhausted themselves (and we know Sandaime can go 72 hours non stop) and passed out. It makes zero sense that Gyuki didn't try to kill Sandaime with a TBB if they fought for so long. He's smart enough to realize his tentacles and physical punches ain't doing jack to Sandaime and to use TBB.

Now I'm not saying Sandaime tanked them for sure because I don't know that but there's more evidence pointing to that he did than he didn't.

Again

  • This was a close combat fight, there is no way Hachibi could have used a TBB at this range unless he fired it on himself. As I stated the 3rd was jumping all over Hachibi since he cut off all his tails.
  • Hachibi remembered 3rd Raikage cutting his tails if he had used TBB on the 3rd he would have remembered it not taking the 3rd down instead of being confused about the situation.
 

NarutoX28

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So Gyuki exhausted all its chakra through a physical fight???

It's not a ridiculous idea as shown here:



It explains how chakra build-up relies on stamina, so thus, if the Gyuki ran out of stamina, he's not going to be able to accumulate any chakra.
 

Thesaurus

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Not joking. I wasnt going by certainty since, as I said to Strict, you can't prove or disprove it. And first post" Im sure" shows it. The range of Itachi's arm, to what he is wielding is unknown and impossible to know. So I'm basing my evidence and interpretation on the weapons Itachi possesses.

Unless there is evidence that Itachi can make a longer/bigger mere blade then his dagger then Im more then happy to be impressed and concede.

Till then, I can easily rebuttal your point here.

That's not how it works. You can't appeal to ignorance to get a point across. Only because Itachi's Susano panel time isn't great doesn't mean you can make claims that his Susano does not work like every other Susano. The user can form whatever weapon he wants through his own chakra manifestation. Yes, in MS, EMS is not required.

Sasuke has shown to form:
Sword
Arrow
Orbs

Itachi has shown to form:
Dagger
Yasaka Magatama

Until you give conclusive proof that Itachi has no way of forming a sword when that's clearly not the case, you don't get to appeal to ignorance and suggest the sword which cut the bones was Totsuka, given no gourd was there and it was a v2 Susan.
 

Brother Numpsay

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That's not how it works. You can't appeal to ignorance to get a point across. Only because Itachi's Susano panel time isn't great doesn't mean you can make claims that his Susano does not work like every other Susano. The user can form whatever weapon he wants through his own chakra manifestation. Yes, in MS, EMS is not required.

Sasuke has shown to form:
Sword
Arrow
Orbs

Itachi has shown to form:
Dagger
Yasaka Magatama

Until you give conclusive proof that Itachi has no way of forming a sword when that's clearly not the case, you don't get to appeal to ignorance and suggest the sword which cut the bones was Totsuka, given no gourd was there and it was a v2 Susan.


Thats not ignorance when its in fact a truth statement. Each Susanoo has their own persona, thats a fact. Base on the fact that each wield a personal weapon means one needs proof other Susanoo can make them.

You think Madara and Itachi can make an Arrow?
You think Sasuke and Itachi can make a Kris Blade?

Goard not being in the picture doesnt mean anything, since the whole arm was cut off on panel. But you can arguably see the flow of liquid chakra behind the arms slash. And only Totsuka has shown to carry the flow "liquid/chakra when used" other then personal weapons from Susanoo users, having that kind of flow.
 

Strict

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Every Susanoo has his own characteristic primal weapon, but apart from that, any Susanoo can build random weapons from Chakra. Sasuke formed a sword, Itachi formed a dagger and Magatamas, etc. Just stop arguing. The fact alone that you say that the Anime is a legit source, makes the discussion frail. Only the Manga is a legit source. Anything shown in the Anime that didn't appeared in the Manga is filler. Fact is, that Itachi had to evolve his Susanoo from V2 to V3 in order to use spiritual weapons, so it's a Manga scan against your baseless claim.
 
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