Mei vs Taka Sasuke

[Null Man]

He just never tried it on her as she was fodder in that fight. He used it on Raikage. Ay > mei. Genjutsu negs her.

Never tried isn't a reason why you'd justify or even begin to explain Mei getting one shotted by genjutsu.
Yes Ay got caught inside Madara's genjutsu. Except Madara only accomplished that feat by

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the Raikage with his v3 Mokuton Susano'o clones, physically RESTRAINED Ay with his

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so he could stand still and afterwards used his genjutsu on a restrained Raikage. Sasuke has nothing that makes up for Susano'o in order to get anywhere close to one shooting Mei with genjutsu.

Your ABC logic is irrelevant and doesn't begin to make sense considering the way Madara used to force Ay into his genjutsu.

The only (barely) funny joke around here is this pathetic statement of yours. It's pure horse shit.[/indent]

The only horseshit I'm seeing here is from the clown who thinks Mei is getting one shotted by Sasuke's genjutsu, when a superior opponent and sharingan /genjutsu user already couldn't.

However, just for the discussion sake. What Madara are you talking about ? The one that fooled around with all the Gokages (including Mei) at the same time ? The one that put Ay under his genjustu efortlessly ? That Madara who was anything but serious in that pathetic excuse of a "fight" ?

I'm talking about Edo Madara. The same Ay who needed to get distracted and physically restrained by Susano'o in order to get affected by genjutsu? I don't know what benchmark you used to measure the effort Madara needed to genjutsu Ay but sure it's a shitty ass one, considering the method Madara needed to use to affect Ay with genjutsu was by using another jutsu just in order to keep him still so Ay would get affected by it.

The only pathetic excuse are your arguments which are garbage pretexts. Everyone of Madara's jutsus outside of PS was countered by the Gokage. He was forced to use his full power which is PS. Madara used genjutsu on Ay by distractions are physical restraints with his Susano'o.

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How convenient would it be if he one shotted them or any member of the team with genjutsu just like tried to do to Ay instead of resorting to his full power?

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I wouldn't use that Madara for any serious debates if I were you.

Sure kid. I wouldn't use your retarded ass logic and call someone's arguments horseshit when your entire premise of Mei not getting one shotted by Madara's genjutsu is a miserable excuse of a garbage argument.

 

[Gold Lightning]

Mei wins

 

[UchihasRightfulHeir]

Never tried isn't a reason why you'd justify or even begin to explain Mei getting one shotted by genjutsu.
Yes Ay got caught inside Madara's genjutsu. Except Madara only accomplished that feat by

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the Raikage with his v3 Mokuton Susano'o clones, physically RESTRAINED Ay with his

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so he could stand still and afterwards used his genjutsu on a restrained Raikage. Sasuke has nothing that makes up for Susano'o in order to get anywhere close to one shooting Mei with genjutsu.

Your ABC logic is irrelevant and doesn't begin to make sense considering the way Madara used to force Ay into his genjutsu.

The reason why Ay has to be restrained is pretty clear. He is too fast. Even in his fight with sasuke, he mentions it. He has to be held still to be placed on genjutsu. mei in comparison is nowhere as fast, Sasuke can blitz her. Sasuke was even able to place chakra cloak bee in genjutsu and he is way faster than mei. There is no way she is avoiding genjutstu. Sasuke neg diffs her.

 

[Dęvîa Puęrî]

Mei wins only cuz of these conditions without them she would get merked by taka assume

 

[DroGGz0r]

I'm talking about Edo Madara. The same Ay who needed to get distracted and physically restrained by Susano'o in order to get affected by genjutsu?I don't know what benchmark you used to measure the effort Madara needed to genjutsu Ay but sure it's a shitty ass one, considering the method Madara needed to use to affect Ay with genjutsu was by using another jutsu just in order to keep him still so Ay would get affected by it.

Yeah, so much effort, my mistake...

The only pathetic excuse are your arguments which are garbage pretexts. Everyone of Madara's jutsus outside of PS was countered by the Gokage. He was forced to use his full power which is PS. Madara used genjutsu on Ay by distractions are physical restraints with his Susano'o.

He wasn't "forced" to do shit, as he stomped them eventually without it.

 

[Null Man]

The reason why Ay has to be restrained is pretty clear. He is too fast. Even in his fight with sasuke, he mentions it. He has to be held still to be placed on genjutsu. mei in comparison is nowhere as fast, Sasuke can blitz her. Sasuke was even able to place chakra cloak bee in genjutsu and he is way faster than mei. There is no way she is avoiding genjutstu. Sasuke neg diffs her.

Ay being fast doesn't excuse the fact that never once Mei got caught into genjutsu. Madara tried to force Ay into genjutsu, that's proof that he could use his Genjutsu moves on the Gokage but no one of them got caught but Ay (who was forced into it).

He could easily use genjutsu on Mei if he was able to do that but he didn't. What does that tell you? He can't because Mei knows how to fight around a sharingan user. I don't care how fast Bee or Ay is. This is about Mei's fighting style and she can't simply get one shotted by genjutsu, not with the reasons you've stated. PERIOD. You don't need to be fast to avoid genjutsu . Judging by body movements is one of many counters to fight sharingan users.

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Yeah, so much effort, my mistake...

Pretty much your mistake. Madeira having the need to use multiple moves to affect Ay by genjutsu such as distractions and physical restraints isn't "effortlessly". And even then it wouldn't begin to explain why Mei would get caught or one shotted by genjutsu.

He wasn't "forced" to do shit, as he stomped them eventually without it.

I'm literally reading the manga to you. Everyone of Madara's non-PS moves got countered by the Gokage.

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Until he finally resorted to PS which is his FULL POWER as stated by Madara. Why would Madara resort to his best move if he could break their will and beat them with his other moves which were already countered?

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[DroGGz0r]

Ay being fast doesn't excuse the fact that never once Mei got caught into genjutsu. Madara tried to force Ay into genjutsu, that's proof that he could use his Genjutsu moves on the Gokage but no one of them got caught but Ay (who was forced into it).

He could easily use genjutsu on Mei if he was able to do that but he didn't. What does that tell you? He can't because Mei knows how to fight around a sharingan user. I don't care how fast Bee or Ay is. This is about Mei's fighting style and she can't simply get one shotted by genjutsu, not with the reasons you've stated. PERIOD. You don't need to be fast to avoid genjutsu . Judging by body movements is one of many counters to fight sharingan users.

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Pretty much your mistake. Madeira having the need to use multiple moves to affect Ay by genjutsu such as distractions and physical restraints isn't "effortlessly". And even then it wouldn't begin to explain why Mei would get caught or one shotted by genjutsu.




I'm literally reading the manga to you. Everyone of Madara's non-PS moves got countered by the Gokage.

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Until he finally resorted to PS which is his FULL POWER as stated by Madara. Why would Madara resort to his best move if he could break their will and beat them with his other moves which were already countered?

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He wanted to see that funny faces they made when they gazed their eyes to his PS, haha...

The point is, he definitely finished them using something other than PS as he stated that would be a disgrace to pull it out again...

Now you're saying that PS was his full power. Well, according to the manga, he defeated them using anything else, but his "full power". Which means he didn't went all out in the end...

I'm out, it's late af where I live, so just leave your reply here and I'll read it tomorrow.

 

[UchihasRightfulHeir]

Ay being fast doesn't excuse the fact that never once Mei got caught into genjutsu. Madara tried to force Ay into genjutsu, that's proof that he could use his Genjutsu moves on the Gokage but no one of them got caught but Ay (who was forced into it).

He could easily use genjutsu on Mei if he was able to do that but he didn't. What does that tell you? He can't because Mei knows how to fight around a sharingan user. I don't care how fast Bee or Ay is. This is about Mei's fighting style and she can't simply get one shotted by genjutsu, not with the reasons you've stated. PERIOD. You don't need to be fast to avoid genjutsu . Judging by body movements is one of many counters to fight sharingan users.

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Pretty much your mistake. Madeira having the need to use multiple moves to affect Ay by genjutsu such as distractions and physical restraints isn't "effortlessly". And even then it wouldn't begin to explain why Mei would get caught or one shotted by genjutsu.




I'm literally reading the manga to you. Everyone of Madara's non-PS moves got countered by the Gokage.

1-

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3-

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Until he finally resorted to PS which is his FULL POWER as stated by Madara. Why would Madara resort to his best move if he could break their will and beat them with his other moves which were already countered?

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You remember the fight right? Madara was playing with them. He pretty much never used any tech twice. If he wanted, he would have placed all of them under genjutsu, there really isn't much they could have done about it. mei included.

He pulled out PS just to see the fear in their eyes. After he beat the edo release, he mentions it would be a disgrace to pull it out again.

 

[Null Man]

He wanted to see that funny faces they made when they gazed their eyes to his PS, haha...

Not sure if I'm supposed to take you seriously with the bold. Didn't know the manga was a circus full of clowns where the opponent used their best moves to see funny faces.

The point is, he definitely finished them using something other than PS as he stated that would be a disgrace to pull it out again...

Now you're saying that PS was his full power. Well, according to the manga, he defeated them using anything else, but his "full power". Which means he didn't went all out in the end...
I'm out, it's late af where I live, so just leave your reply here and I'll read it tomorrow.

He resorted to his full power. Madara's other moves were countered by the Gokage. Tengai Shinsei was countered by Ohnoki lightening tech, his v3 Mokuton Susano'o clones were counter by Jinton, Preta Path was counter by the Kage's combination of Suiton, Sand and Raiton, Kajukai Korin was disintegrated by Jinton, his genjutsu was countered by their fighting style and partner method, Katon was shut off by Mei's suiton.

I don't know what he used to defeat the Gokage because that was obviously off panel and I don't need to know when the manga already showed all of his best non-PS moves such as Tengai Shinsei, Kajukai Kourin, Mokuton Susano'o clones etc were countered by the Gokage that's why he resorted to PS. The idea of something as futile as genjutsu ending any of the Kage (but Madara just supposedly refrained himself from doing so) ,when he already tried and failed on one of them is stupid, especially when Madara already used techniques much stronger than Sharingan: Genjutsu to end them.

You remember the fight right? Madara was playing with them. He pretty much never used any tech twice. If he wanted, he would have placed all of them under genjutsu, there really isn't much they could have done about it. mei included.

Yet Madara never could. Yet he resorted to techs much stronger than Genjutsu to fight them. Yet he tried to physically restrain one of them just to force him inside genjutsu. I remember the fight pretty well and not once one of them simply got one shot by genjutsu or Madara succeeded.

You don't use the same technique twice because it's fruitless. I try to kill you with a knife but I fail that's why I use a gun the next time. Simple logic.

He pulled out PS just to see the fear in their eyes. After he beat the edo release, he mentions it would be a disgrace to pull it out again.

He pulled PS because all his other moves were countered. How Madara felt after ET isn't my concern when nothing in the manga suggests Mei or the other Kage would get one shotted by genjutsu esp when they fought around Madara and never felt prey to Sharingan: Genjutsu besides Ay who got restrained with Susano'o and forced to stand still so genjutsu could be used. And I already showed you the way how to fight Sharingan users. By avoiding eye contact and judging from body movements like the Gokage most probably did.

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[Zexion~]

Haha my G....Didn't get this though?

Id like to see both of you swap arguments Lol

 

[UchihasRightfulHeir]

Not sure if I'm supposed to take you seriously with the bold. Didn't know the manga was a circus full of clowns where the opponent used their best moves to see funny faces.




He resorted to his full power. Madara's other moves were countered by the Gokage. Tengai Shinsei was countered by Ohnoki lightening tech, his v3 Mokuton Susano'o clones were counter by Jinton, Preta Path was counter by the Kage's combination of Suiton, Sand and Raiton, Kajukai Korin was disintegrated by Jinton, his genjutsu was countered by their fighting style and partner method, Katon was shut off by Mei's suiton.

I don't know what he used to defeat the Gokage because that was obviously off panel and I don't need to know when the manga already showed all of his best non-PS moves such as Tengai Shinsei, Kajukai Kourin, Mokuton Susano'o clones etc were countered by the Gokage that's why he resorted to PS. The idea of something as futile as genjutsu ending any of the Kage (but Madara just supposedly refrained himself from doing so) ,when he already tried and failed on one of them is stupid, especially when Madara already used techniques much stronger than Sharingan: Genjutsu to end them.





Yet Madara never could. Yet he resorted to techs much stronger than Genjutsu to fight them. Yet he tried to physically restrain one of them just to force him inside genjutsu. I remember the fight pretty well and not once one of them simply got one shot by genjutsu or Madara succeeded.

You don't use the same technique twice because it's fruitless. I try to kill you with a knife but I fail that's why I use a gun the next time. Simple logic.



He pulled PS because all his other moves were countered. How Madara felt after ET isn't my concern when nothing in the manga suggests Mei or the other Kage would get one shotted by genjutsu esp when they fought around Madara and never felt prey to Sharingan: Genjutsu besides Ay who got restrained with Susano'o and forced to stand still so genjutsu could be used. And I already showed you the way how to fight Sharingan users. By avoiding eye contact and judging from body movements like the Gokage most probably did.

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You really think madara was being serious in that fight? He was simply testing their power. When he said "I will reply with full power", that was simply because they showed him theirs and he wanted to humor them. If madara wanted, he would have used limbo and soloed them all long before the fight even ended. Even legged susanoo was unnecessary, he could absorb all of their techs except gaara's sand if he wanted. So do not use the madara as a claim of what he can't do. Cuz he can do it all.

You say she can fight without looking at sasuke's eyes, using just body movements, but for how long? If she can't see his eyes, she can't see him doing amaterasu and either way she still loses. If you don't want to use the madara case, take the bee case for example. Sasuke put bee in genjutsu. He was in chakra cloak, he was moving very quickly, Sasuke did not need to restrain him. Bee > Mei. genjutsu negs her.

 

[Null Man]

You really think madara was being serious in that fight? He was simply testing their power. When he said "I will reply with full power", that was simply because they showed him theirs and he wanted to humor them. If madara wanted, he would have used limbo and soloed them all long before the fight even ended. Even legged susanoo was unnecessary, he could absorb all of their techs except gaara's sand if he wanted. So do not use the madara as a claim of what he can't do. Cuz he can do it all.

Again, all of Madara's moves were countered. I don't care what you think about Madara "testing" their powers. He used moves that tried to kill them. Tried to use genjutsu on Ay by restraining him yet I'm supposed to believe that he didn't want the other Gokage to fall under genjutsu just on a whim? Get that shit out of here.


1-Talk about straw grasping. Limbo can't even be used by Edo Madara with the fake Rinnegan. Only Alive Rinnegan Madara can access it.
2- He can do it all? LMAO. That's neither a reason or argument.

You say she can fight without looking at sasuke's eyes, using just body movements, but for how long? If she can't see his eyes, she can't see him doing amaterasu and either way she still loses. If you don't want to use the madara case, take the bee case for example. Sasuke put bee in genjutsu. He was in chakra cloak, he was moving very quickly, Sasuke did not need to restrain him. Bee > Mei. genjutsu negs her.

She can fight as long as she fought against Edo Madara. You saying Mei can't isn't an argument or proof when the manga already proved Mei can. Not interested in the Amaterasu argument, I already said Sasuke might win because of Amaterasu. Base Gai is weaker and slower than v1 Bee, yet Bee fell prey to Itachi's genjutsu but Gai could fight against Itachi and successfully avoid genjutsu.

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. If only ABC logic even begun to prove anything you've said so far..

 

[Legendary Toad Sage]

Mei is at a disadvantage from the very beginning. She can't even afford to look him in the eyes or the fight is over

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. Fortunately Mei has full intel here, so she won't be looking into his eyes unless forced to. From a distance; yes looking at ones feet/upper body works well, but if he gets too close then that method is shot. Also not focusing on his eyes leaves her open to getting roasted

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. She literally won't even know he's doing it if she isn't looking into his eyes.

She can try for mist, but A shunshin at in the very beginning of the match gets him close enough to establish eye contact anyways. The only threat to him here is boil release, which can easily be outmaneuvered in such a large space. It buys her time and prevents him from charging head on, but that's all it does.

Once gets to close to her, shes mincemeat.

 

[UchihasRightfulHeir]

Again, all of Madara's moves were countered. I don't care what you think about Madara "testing" their powers. He used moves that tried to kill them. Tried to use genjutsu on Ay by restraining him yet I'm supposed to believe that he didn't want the other Gokage to fall under genjutsu just on a whim? Get that shit out of here.


1-Talk about straw grasping. Limbo can't even be used by Edo Madara with the fake Rinnegan. Only Alive Rinnegan Madara can access it.
2- He can do it all? That's neither a reason or argument.



She can fight as long as she fought against Edo Madara. You saying Mei can't isn't an argument or proof when the manga already proved Mei can. Not interested in the Amaterasu argument, I already said Sasuke might win because of Amaterasu. Base Gai is weaker and slower than v1 Bee, yet Bee fell prey to Itachi's genjutsu but Gai could fight against Itachi and successfully avoid genjutsu.

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. If only ABC logic even begun to prove anything you've said so far..

Limbo is his rinnegan tech. Just like all other rinnegan techs. He can use it whenever. edo or not. Just didn't do it. The only thing he cannot do with edo rinnegan is summon the gedo statue.

Yep on a whim. When he grabbed Ay and placed him in genjutsu, he could have killed him right there, yet he dropped him. Knowing that one of the other kages would release him from genjutstu. See. Playing with them. So many things he could have done, a whole bunch of rinne tech, yet he didn't. Why? because he was not being serious with them. The fact that they could counter the techs he did choose to use does not change that fact.

lol. I don't think we our arguments even align. I'm saying that sasuke can beat mei with genjutsu. You are saying no because she can fight without looking at his eyes. Remember that gai knows how to fight without looking at the eyes because of how many times he has fought kakashi. The raikage may not have wanted to look at madara's eyes, but during such a fight, it is bound to happen eventually, either by ay slipping up or by madara taking action like he did. The same would eventually happen in a fight with sasuke and mei irregardless of if she is trying not to. It's just a question of what gets her first.

 

[Lariatoo]

If this is the Sasuke who fought Bee (still hurt from the battle with Itachi and who only unlocked Amaterasu mid battle) then Mei win this handily. If Sasuke can use Ama right off the bat he wins.

 

[Null Man]

Limbo is his rinnegan tech. Just like all other rinnegan techs. He can use it whenever. edo or not. Just didn't do it. The only thing he cannot do with edo rinnegan is summon the gedo statue.

Show me proof Edo Madara can use Limbo. Show me any kind of feat that hints Limbo can be used in his Edo state. No fan fiction. Madara shows Limbo Hengoku only after getting his REAL Rinnegan back

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. No reason why I would believe the Fake Rinnegan grants Limbo. None whatsoever.

Yep on a whim. When he grabbed Ay and placed him in genjutsu, he could have killed him right there, yet he dropped him. Knowing that one of the other kages would release him from genjutstu. See. Playing with them. So many things he could have done, a whole bunch of rinne tech, yet he didn't. Why? because he was not being serious with them. The fact that they could counter the techs he did choose to use does not change that fact.

He grabbed Ay and put him inside a genjutsu. That was his goal and Ay was as good as gone until Onoki intervened. So many things he could have done is your excuse for a bunch of fan fiction you're trying to use as proof for Gokage/Mei getting one shotted from something as trivial as genjutsu. Manga shows Madara trying to genjutsu Ay and failing. Manga shows neither of Gokage falling prey to Madara's genjutsu even though he already forcefully tried on one of them. Fan says he can one shot everyone. See my point?

lol. I don't think we our arguments even align. I'm saying that sasuke can beat mei with genjutsu. You are saying no because she can fight without looking at his eyes. Remember that gai knows how to fight without looking at the eyes because of how many times he has fought kakashi. The raikage may not have wanted to look at madara's eyes, but during such a fight,

Our arguments don't align because you're using wank instead of logic to make your point. I already showed you proof and facts from the manga. It's about time you try to do the same.

it is bound to happen eventually, either by ay slipping up or by madara taking action like he did. The same would eventually happen in a fight with sasuke and mei irregardless of if she is trying not to. It's just a question of what gets her first.

You saying it's bound to happen it's not proof. Especially when I already brought your proof and the manga already showed Mei can very well fight against Sharingan users. Bring out proof or stop wasting my time.

 

[UchihasRightfulHeir]

Show me proof Edo Madara can use Limbo. Show me any kind of feat that hints Limbo can be used in his Edo state. No fan fiction. Madara shows Limbo Hengoku only after getting his REAL Rinnegan back

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. No reason why I would believe the Fake Rinnegan grants Limbo. None whatsoever.



He grabbed Ay and put him inside a genjutsu. That was his goal and Ay was as good as gone until Onoki intervened. So many things he could have done is your excuse for a bunch of fan fiction you're trying to use as proof for Gokage/Mei getting one shotted from something as trivial as genjutsu. Manga shows Madara trying to genjutsu Ay and failing. Manga shows neither of Gokage falling prey to Madara's genjutsu even though he already forcefully tried on one of them. Fan says he can one shot everyone. See my point?

He didn't fail did he? He put Ay under genjutsu and then for some reason let him go when he could have easily crushed him with susanoo.
I'm not saying he could have one shot all of them. Only Sasuke has shown that ability. He would probably have to do it one at a time, and in that time, the other kage's would release the affected person from genjutsu. I am however saying that he could have placed any one of them in genjutsu. Ay was just maybe a random choice.

The fact that madara never used limbo does not prove that he cannot use it in edo state. Would you say he couldn't use CT simply because he never used it in edo state? The only tech manga says he cannot do is gedo mazo.

Our arguments don't align because you're using wank instead of logic to make your point. I already showed you proof and facts from the manga. It's about time you try to do the same.



You saying it's bound to happen it's not proof. Especially when I already brought your proof and the manga already showed Mei can very well fight against Sharingan users. Bring out proof or stop wasting my time.

I'm saying it's bound to happen, because even if she fights like you say she would, eventually sasuke can force her to look into his eyes, one way or another.

 

[Raykyryn]

Sasuke mid high

 

[Itachi of the Uchiha clan]

Sasuke stomps lmao, Sasuke at that point put Bee under Genjutsu, what makes you think Mei can't get caught.
Sasuke mid diff.

 

[DroGGz0r]

Not sure if I'm supposed to take you seriously with the bold. Didn't know the manga was a circus full of clowns where the opponent used their best moves to see funny faces.

Oh, I'm deadly serious.

He resorted to his full power. Madara's other moves were countered by the Gokage. Tengai Shinsei was countered by Ohnoki lightening tech, his v3 Mokuton Susano'o clones were counter by Jinton, Preta Path was counter by the Kage's combination of Suiton, Sand and Raiton, Kajukai Korin was disintegrated by Jinton, his genjutsu was countered by their fighting style and partner method, Katon was shut off by Mei's suiton.

I don't know what he used to defeat the Gokage because that was obviously off panel and I don't need to know when the manga already showed all of his best non-PS moves such as Tengai Shinsei, Kajukai Kourin, Mokuton Susano'o clones etc were countered by the Gokage that's why he resorted to PS. The idea of something as futile as genjutsu ending any of the Kage (but Madara just supposedly refrained himself from doing so) ,when he already tried and failed on one of them is stupid, especially when Madara already used techniques much stronger than Sharingan: Genjutsu to end them.

But here is the thing, he obviously didn't used all of his best non-PS moves as he defeated them in the end using anything else other than PS. The fact that it was off-panel doesn't make it any less of a fact that he didn't went all out. The only reason he resorted to PS was to make them lose motivation and therefore making it easier for him to crush them, and obviously not because it was his only way to get past them.

And again, saying that Sasuke can't put Mei under genjutsu just because Madara didn't do it, it's a puerile statement to say the least as Madara fought 5 persons at the same time (that being the sole reason for Ay "breaking" his genjutsu, props to Onoki), which is by no means the same thing with fighting only one, and so on...